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Muscle Building and Fat Loss...

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  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 11,810Member Member Posts: 11,810Member Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    I blame this on the diet and fitness industry, who, IMO purposefully overcomplicate this stuff to keep themselves in business.

    I think it is interesting what the fitness industry has been able to kind of sell people as ideas because of what they can't sell to them as products - there's only so many weights and barbells that can be sold, but BCAA's, preworkouts, fat burners, and protein powders can all be sold to the same individuals for daily consumption.

    Which I think creates an incredibly funny image: all kinds of people wanting to look like a barbarian, but they're mixing up more powders than a wizard.

    I believe the fitness industry has also done some clever things with using ill-founded ideas to sell more products, too. Specifically, I'm thinking of ideas that we need to cause "muscle confusion", to "shock our body", and that sort of thing, in order to make progress.

    If one can't lose weight or get fit without switching up one's workout routine often to "confuse" and "shock", then one will need to be buying the latest fitness toys and exercise programs, not just the consumable foods/supplements.

    Pushing products may also be some of the impetus behind trendiness in programs, too. Remember when we all needed to stay in "the fat burning zone"? Now we need to "do HIIT" in order to get that "24-hour afterburn".

    We also get varying emphasis on body parts over time, too: Six pack, core, booty, . . . .

    Sell, sell, sell; overcomplicate, obfuscate. :lol:

    Back at the OP: I agree with your feeling, if I'm correctly understanding you. Plus we know that people typically overestimate exercise calories, and underestimate eaten calories . . . even people with actual expertise. I'd assume wishful thinking has something to do with that. Not much of a surprise that non-experts make even worse assumptions. Add in the degree of "bad at or averse to math" innumeracy that seems quite common, and here we are. ;)

    I'm tempted to add that it seems common for people to think in generalizations, and in static pictures of reality, when in practice systems thinking is more functional. Bodies are complex systems. In that context, I like @Chieflrg 's post:
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I agree that the fitness industry is absolutely polluted with horrible content.

    That being said, there are people who are putting out excellant content.

    I mean we all know that protein in needed for hypertrophy, but do the majority of people understand if your protein is plant based you would definitely want to check your EAAs are adequate and probably up your protein for optimal results?

    Macros question can be important for many people once you get them on the right track for hypertrophy long term.

    edited September 11
  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,212Member Member Posts: 5,212Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I believe the fitness industry has also done some clever things with using ill-founded ideas to sell more products, too. Specifically, I'm thinking of ideas that we need to cause "muscle confusion", to "shock our body", and that sort of thing, in order to make progress.

    Can you imagine if we really had that much control over our body? Our species would have become extinct a long time ago...
  • CSARdiverCSARdiver Posts: 5,890Member Member Posts: 5,890Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    I blame this on the diet and fitness industry, who, IMO purposefully overcomplicate this stuff to keep themselves in business.

    I think it is interesting what the fitness industry has been able to kind of sell people as ideas because of what they can't sell to them as products - there's only so many weights and barbells that can be sold, but BCAA's, preworkouts, fat burners, and protein powders can all be sold to the same individuals for daily consumption.

    Which I think creates an incredibly funny image: all kinds of people wanting to look like a barbarian, but they're mixing up more powders than a wizard.

    I believe the fitness industry has also done some clever things with using ill-founded ideas to sell more products, too. Specifically, I'm thinking of ideas that we need to cause "muscle confusion", to "shock our body", and that sort of thing, in order to make progress.

    If one can't lose weight or get fit without switching up one's workout routine often to "confuse" and "shock", then one will need to be buying the latest fitness toys and exercise programs, not just the consumable foods/supplements.

    Pushing products may also be some of the impetus behind trendiness in programs, too. Remember when we all needed to stay in "the fat burning zone"? Now we need to "do HIIT" in order to get that "24-hour afterburn".

    We also get varying emphasis on body parts over time, too: Six pack, core, booty, . . . .

    Sell, sell, sell; overcomplicate, obfuscate. :lol:

    Back at the OP: I agree with your feeling, if I'm correctly understanding you. Plus we know that people typically overestimate exercise calories, and underestimate eaten calories . . . even people with actual expertise. I'd assume wishful thinking has something to do with that. Not much of a surprise that non-experts make even worse assumptions. Add in the degree of "bad at or averse to math" innumeracy that seems quite common, and here we are. ;)

    I'm tempted to add that it seems common for people to think in generalizations, and in static pictures of reality, when in practice systems thinking is more functional. Bodies are complex systems. In that context, I like @Chieflrg 's post:
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    I agree that the fitness industry is absolutely polluted with horrible content.

    That being said, there are people who are putting out excellant content.

    I mean we all know that protein in needed for hypertrophy, but do the majority of people understand if your protein is plant based you would definitely want to check your EAAs are adequate and probably up your protein for optimal results?

    Macros question can be important for many people once you get them on the right track for hypertrophy long term.

    Need that Awesome button back.

    I'm eternally humbled by the sheer brilliance that life exists in any way, shape, or form.
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 2,771Member Member Posts: 2,771Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    SnifterPug wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »

    Had your personal trainer given me the same challenge it would have taken well under a minute

    Indeed. It only took me about a minute as even then I could sustain around 600cal per hour for the requisite minute to burn the ten calories. But even now I'm sure I couldn't sustain that pace for an hour even though my all-out sprint pace can reach 1000cal per hour for 30 secs or so.

    I do choose to use exercise to help with a deficit but it's damned hard work. I speak as one who spent 12 years mooching about on a treadmill at a fast walking pace for half an hour a day fondly imagining I was getting fit and earning a dessert to boot.

    And see that's the thing, last winter I was routinely burning 500-700 calories over the course of 30-60 minutes three days a week on an erg. But that was after multiple seasons of bike riding and with an organized plan.

    On the one hand, that's a nice calorie burn. On the other hand, it's less than a fancy sweet latte and a bagel with cream cheese.

    ;)

    It ends up being more than my typical breakfast actually! Two thin bialys with butter (adds up to about 1 bagel), black coffee (fancy freshly and locally roasted pour over), and a small pastry. Sometimes there are benefits to not liking cream cheese ;) That and the person who typically prepares my bialys, knows that I don't want them slathered in butter. He'll even check from time to time, "You don't like a lot of butter right?".
  • PhirrgusPhirrgus Posts: 1,883Member Member Posts: 1,883Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    SnifterPug wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »

    Had your personal trainer given me the same challenge it would have taken well under a minute

    Indeed. It only took me about a minute as even then I could sustain around 600cal per hour for the requisite minute to burn the ten calories. But even now I'm sure I couldn't sustain that pace for an hour even though my all-out sprint pace can reach 1000cal per hour for 30 secs or so.

    I do choose to use exercise to help with a deficit but it's damned hard work. I speak as one who spent 12 years mooching about on a treadmill at a fast walking pace for half an hour a day fondly imagining I was getting fit and earning a dessert to boot.

    And see that's the thing, last winter I was routinely burning 500-700 calories over the course of 30-60 minutes three days a week on an erg. But that was after multiple seasons of bike riding and with an organized plan.

    On the one hand, that's a nice calorie burn. On the other hand, it's less than a fancy sweet latte and a bagel with cream cheese.

    ;)

    It ends up being more than my typical breakfast actually! Two thin bialys with butter (adds up to about 1 bagel), black coffee (fancy freshly and locally roasted pour over), and a small pastry. Sometimes there are benefits to not liking cream cheese ;) That and the person who typically prepares my bialys, knows that I don't want them slathered in butter. He'll even check from time to time, "You don't like a lot of butter right?".

    Off topic but...I've never heard that from anyone before lol.

    On topic - I've found that if I get 2.5-4 hours of resistance training a week, and eat a proper amount of calories I maintain my muscle mass (not a huge amount lol) and stay lean. Nothing complicated required.

    In light of that, I constantly get numerous comments regarding my age and appearance and have (fill in the blank) diet/workout/magic pill brought to my attention by coworkers/friends/family and they don't seem to believe me when I push back against both the marketing hype and the over aggressive "You need to train to failure 7 days a week" strategies.

    The latter there is an exaggeration, but it's in response to being pushed to limits occasionally that I simply do not need to go to in order to achieve my goals.
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 716Member Member Posts: 716Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    I blame this on the diet and fitness industry, who, IMO purposefully overcomplicate this stuff to keep themselves in business.

    I think it is interesting what the fitness industry has been able to kind of sell people as ideas because of what they can't sell to them as products - there's only so many weights and barbells that can be sold, but BCAA's, preworkouts, fat burners, and protein powders can all be sold to the same individuals for daily consumption.

    Which I think creates an incredibly funny image: all kinds of people wanting to look like a barbarian, but they're mixing up more powders than a wizard.

    I believe the fitness industry has also done some clever things with using ill-founded ideas to sell more products, too. Specifically, I'm thinking of ideas that we need to cause "muscle confusion", to "shock our body", and that sort of thing, in order to make progress.

    If one can't lose weight or get fit without switching up one's workout routine often to "confuse" and "shock", then one will need to be buying the latest fitness toys and exercise programs, not just the consumable foods/supplements.

    Pushing products may also be some of the impetus behind trendiness in programs, too. Remember when we all needed to stay in "the fat burning zone"? Now we need to "do HIIT" in order to get that "24-hour afterburn".

    We also get varying emphasis on body parts over time, too: Six pack, core, booty, . . . .

    Sell, sell, sell; overcomplicate, obfuscate. :lol:
    How muscle confusion became a thing is confusing in and of itself. Potentially there's a tiny grain of truth - I've heard of some studies suggesting exercise staleness, but on the scale of a macrocycle. In general though, hypertrophy relies on the exact opposite of muscle confusion - one has to become proficient in an exercise before adding weight to it puts a strain on muscles that elicits growth, otherwise initial increases in performance are just skill, not muscle.
    I suppose it works as a sales pitch because it can really make people feel like they're making progress by constantly switching to something they can progress at with skill acquisition.
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