Weak chest (48yo male)
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On the contrary you fixed it for you not me my opinion stands.
From personal experience at 6’1” at 160# i was skinny and weak. Now at 210# I look and feel much better and strength gains are much easier.
Of course the op is free to pursue his own course of action...
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On the contrary you fixed it for you not me my opinion stands.
From personal experience at 6’1” at 160# i was skinny and weak. Now at 210# I look and feel much better and strength gains are much easier.
Of course the op is free to pursue his own course of action...
That's great that worked for you but I think it misplaced to recommend gaining 50 lbs as a prerequisite to getting stronger.3 -
You can eat all the calories in the world but if you're not getting enough protein you ain't gonna build muscle. Make sure you're getting somewhere around 0.8 to 1.0 gram of protein per pound of body weight, per day.2
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Did I mention recovery? Did I express an opinion that recovery isn't part of effective training?
Yes you said:You don't eat to get strong...
If eating is part of recovery and recovery (from an effective program of course) is required to get strong then it logically follows one must eat to get stronger...
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So you got strong with significant increases in muscle and bodyweight then cut down to where you want to be while maintaining strength and muscle mass?Regarding the size/strength correlation, you don't have to get huge to get relatively strong. Granted, it was in my mid-late 20s but I went from a similar starting point to over 225 in a little over a year after I started lifting while benching 3x/week. I'm 6'1" and stay around 170-175 lbs.
Which is what I am suggesting the op do (granted I never mentioned the cutting that can come after the strength / muscle / body weight)...
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I personally think that many men and women just assume they are weaker than they actually are. I didn't really start progressing past my natural strength until I pushed outside of my comfort zone and said it was ok to fail a lift. I agree that you should look into a progressive heavy lifting program like Stronglifts 5x5 to see where it takes you. Do some research on engaging the proper muscles for each of the lifts because this is far more important than we realize, especially with bench where you can rely on your front delts and triceps to push the bar away without really engaging your chest that much. I personally grip the bar loosely on bench (except for when I am doing my heaviest sets) because it helps me to not rely on my arms as much as I used to.2
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5’11”, 158lbs. My bench press is awful , 135 max. I’m ectomorph and eating 3000 cal per day . Lately I’ve been doing “iso lateral bench “ ( machine press) , on that my max is a horrendous 108lbs.
I work chest once a week (due to my over training which happens quickly as skinny ectomorph). The goal is 225lbs someday !
Any tips ?
Once a week is indeed is low frequency especially for chest to expect progress.
Since most people lift less weight with bench compared to squat, deadlift, etc...there is less useful stress to the body and more easily to recover from due to the amount of muscle activation used to perform the lifts.
At your age, you can definitely gain strength while maintaining weight or if you chose to gain at a slow pace. Body weight would not be my first concern. I would raise a eyebrow though if your goal was to indeed add LBM at this time.
It is also highly unlikely you are over training as that term is misused by most who train via lifting. Your progress would decrease amoung red flag health problems and injuries would occur.
I suggest looking into a template that has more frequency, appropriate volume and has auto regulation built in. Any LP programming would be near bottom of the list.
If you post your current template of your microcycle, I can help with choosing more appropriate programming if you wish.
I would agree with the above that eating your way out of a plateau isn't an ideal first choice of action especially with the amount of calories you are currently consuming currently.
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My opinion is the op is weak because he is skinny and needs to gain about 50# while following an appropriate training program.
It is my opinion he will accomplish his goals by eating as described in the link above and by purchasing reading and following what is outlined in this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Basic-Barbell-Training/dp/0982522738
You do realize that that organization responsible for that book lost nearly all their top coaches because of unfounded blanket context that is in that book that isn't backed by established evidence?
I'm not trying to down Rip for he does some good work especially for advanced age people, but that book has many holes for long term success and I certainly wouldn't treat the context as law.4 -
Did I mention recovery? Did I express an opinion that recovery isn't part of effective training?
Yes you said:You don't eat to get strong...
If eating is part of recovery and recovery (from an effective program of course) is required to get strong then it logically follows one must eat to get stronger...
I was thinking as I was out training this afternoon if I'm being too harsh on you and hope this doesn't come across wrong (apologies in advance if it does) but you seem to have a reading comprehension or other problems as you seem to struggle to assimilate written information in this and other threads?
If you do have issues I will strive do be more understanding.
So you agree I didn't mention recovery but I'll answer your convoluted question anyway - yes everyone needs to eat to recover. Fortunately everyone does eat and no-one has suggested that OP starves himself!
If your question is more specifically do people need to eat in a caloric surplus to recover from a training session or get stronger then absolutely not - that would be a ridiculous statement. A beginner especially will make dramatic strength gains from adopting a good training regime whether they are in a surplus, at maintenance or even a moderate deficit.
In the specific case of the OP I think he will probably want to get bigger/heavier based on his stats and OP (which of course requires a surplus). 50lbs extra is completely excessive though unless his goals change dramatically.
He may well be better off getting his training dialled in first before starting a modest surplus to achieve his chosen weight gain.
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The starting point I referenced was based on what I could lift, bodyweight was in the low 170s when I started in 2015 and in an old spreadsheet I have from 1/2016 I was already to a 225 max at 176. Admittedly my recordkeeping is dodgy going back a few years, I'm more meticulous now. I probably have the handwritten sheets somewhere but not in a google sheet I can access from work.
So you got strong with significant increases in muscle and bodyweight then cut down to where you want to be while maintaining strength and muscle mass?Regarding the size/strength correlation, you don't have to get huge to get relatively strong. Granted, it was in my mid-late 20s but I went from a similar starting point to over 225 in a little over a year after I started lifting while benching 3x/week. I'm 6'1" and stay around 170-175 lbs.
Which is what I am suggesting the op do (granted I never mentioned the cutting that can come after the strength / muscle / body weight)...
Even so, putting on 10-15 lbs is different than 50. However, that aside, whether the OP elects to gain 0 or 50 lbs we can agree that getting on a better program where he's benching more often is only to his benefit. Combine that with sufficient dietary protein, rest/recovery and at least maintenance level intake.2 -
My max when I was 142lbs was 230 lbs, so it is possible to get stronger without putting on much weight.4 -
You do realize that that organization responsible for that book lost nearly all their top coaches because of unfounded blanket context that is in that book that isn't backed by established evidence?
I'm not trying to down Rip for he does some good work especially for advanced age people, but that book has many holes for long term success and I certainly wouldn't treat the context as law.
Are you talking about the barbell medicine crew? That whole deal was about rpe and intermediate programming primarily the Texas method. Of course they are coming out with their new rpe based version of a novice program but the principals appear to be similar ie full body moderate volume moderate intensity.
As far as established evidence people have been getting strong for a long time using squat bench press and deadlift.
Have you read the book? It is mostly technical and mechanical explanations of form on the main lifts how and why to perform them in a specific manner.
It has many holes for long term success because the 3x5 increase intensity every session is a beginner program only intended to be run for a few months. It’s not intended for long term success. My personal favorite for long term success is some iteration of hlm.
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Agree body weight is a personal preference. Being biased as a former bean pole I lean towards the get bigger end of the spectrum...However, that aside, whether the OP elects to gain 0 or 50 lbs we can agree that getting on a better program where he's benching more often is only to his benefit. Combine that with sufficient dietary protein, rest/recovery and at least maintenance level intake.
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Thanks for the question....you seem to have a reading comprehension or other problems as you seem to struggle to assimilate written information in this and other threads?
To answer, no my comprehension and assimilation of written information seems to be at least average possibly above, based on my academic performance in the primary and secondary educational institutions I have attended...
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I have this book
Gold's Gym Mass Building Training and Nutrition System (Gold's Gym Series) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0809239477/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_38PEDbZMNJM2V
I read the “hard gainer “ section a lot
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5’11”, 158lbs. My bench press is awful , 135 max. I’m ectomorph and eating 3000 cal per day . Lately I’ve been doing “iso lateral bench “ ( machine press) , on that my max is a horrendous 108lbs.
I work chest once a week (due to my over training which happens quickly as skinny ectomorph). The goal is 225lbs someday !
Any tips ?
I'm literally the same measurements as you and eat the same every day. I bench twice a week, using the typical hypertrophy 12-6 setup. When I hit a wall, I stop bench pressing and do secondary lifts/accessory lifts instead. It helps me overcome the wall after about 4 weeks of doing this, and I'm also usually able to increase the weight on my secondary/accessory lifts within those 4 weeks. It's a win-win for me.2 -
ZakariyaRyu wrote: »5’11”, 158lbs. My bench press is awful , 135 max. I’m ectomorph and eating 3000 cal per day . Lately I’ve been doing “iso lateral bench “ ( machine press) , on that my max is a horrendous 108lbs.
I work chest once a week (due to my over training which happens quickly as skinny ectomorph). The goal is 225lbs someday !
Any tips ?
I'm literally the same measurements as you and eat the same every day. I bench twice a week, using the typical hypertrophy 12-6 setup. When I hit a wall, I stop bench pressing and do secondary lifts/accessory lifts instead. It helps me overcome the wall after about 4 weeks of doing this, and I'm also usually able to increase the weight on my secondary/accessory lifts within those 4 weeks. It's a win-win for me.
Why not try switching to a strength based program too then?
Hypertrophy programs will also go much better for you after you have already build up a steady base of strength. I suggest getting strength in first, then switch to hypertrophy as an intermediate program3
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