Gain muscle mass while staying lean? (Calories and macros question)
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ari2d2
Posts: 16 Member
Hi Everyone, I’m new to the forum and I also don’t know much about using forums, so please forgive me is this type of post is already being discussed here or something.
I’ve lost about 45 lb this year (I was like 193 in August last year). So, finally the gut is almost totally gone. Now I’d like to do a “lean bulk,” which I understand to mean building lean muscle mass, but without packing on the gut again. The common wisdom seems to be you have to put some fluff back on to gain muscle and then shred it off, but that idea is less than thrilling to me since it did take me my whole life to finally figure out how to lose the gut.
I do like to follow Jeff Cavaliere’s AthleanX YouTube channel, and he seems to believe that contrary to popular opinion, a lean bulk is not only possible, but preferable. That was very encouraging to me, but while his nutrition advice is very good, it’s a bit vague and very generalized —in other words, it doesn’t help me calculate things, and I’m very calorie/macro oriented. Tracking nutrition just works incredibly well for my personal fitness style.
Looking into some things myself, I came across this MFP blog article:
https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/
The article seems great, and it also raises a lot of questions for me as I work to figure all this out. I’m wondering if I can find some answers here so I can hopefully get going on a new plan. I’m 45, I’m 5’ 10’ And I’m 147 lb. — and according to body fat calculators, and according to my neck and waist measurements, my body fat is 17% or so, and lean body mass is like 121.3 lbs.
I’ve done some calorie and macro calculations based on the info in the article at the link above, and based on a part 1 of that article’s series —and it looks like these here are my numbers according to the article’s calculation system:
Maintenance calories —2520
————————-
Training days calories —2898
————————-
P 220.5g (882 cal)
C 220.5g (882 cal)
F 126g (1134 cal)
Rest days calories — 2268
————————-
P 220.5g (882 cal)
C 51.45 (205.8)
F 131.1333 (1180.2)
I’m psyched to dive in and get going with this as the basis for my nutrition plan. My one concern, I guess, is that up to now my caloric intake has been much lower than this —especially the fats. I do think the above probably makes sense, since we’re talking about the nutritive needs for building muscle, but, do my calculations in fact seem right?
I’m just surprised at the caloric amounts, and especially the amounts of fat... I know fat gets an underverdly bad rap, but the fat intake this article’s author states for himself is a fair amount lower than what I’ve calculated for myself — I think that could make sense too, because of height and weight differences between us, but, whoa!! While I want to build muscle, I do want to maintain the newly acquired lean physique I’ve finally achieved this year after 20+ years of trying and failing. Curious as to people’s thoughts. Thank you for reading!
I’ve lost about 45 lb this year (I was like 193 in August last year). So, finally the gut is almost totally gone. Now I’d like to do a “lean bulk,” which I understand to mean building lean muscle mass, but without packing on the gut again. The common wisdom seems to be you have to put some fluff back on to gain muscle and then shred it off, but that idea is less than thrilling to me since it did take me my whole life to finally figure out how to lose the gut.
I do like to follow Jeff Cavaliere’s AthleanX YouTube channel, and he seems to believe that contrary to popular opinion, a lean bulk is not only possible, but preferable. That was very encouraging to me, but while his nutrition advice is very good, it’s a bit vague and very generalized —in other words, it doesn’t help me calculate things, and I’m very calorie/macro oriented. Tracking nutrition just works incredibly well for my personal fitness style.
Looking into some things myself, I came across this MFP blog article:
https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/the-basics-of-body-recomposition-macronutrient-calculations-to-lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/
The article seems great, and it also raises a lot of questions for me as I work to figure all this out. I’m wondering if I can find some answers here so I can hopefully get going on a new plan. I’m 45, I’m 5’ 10’ And I’m 147 lb. — and according to body fat calculators, and according to my neck and waist measurements, my body fat is 17% or so, and lean body mass is like 121.3 lbs.
I’ve done some calorie and macro calculations based on the info in the article at the link above, and based on a part 1 of that article’s series —and it looks like these here are my numbers according to the article’s calculation system:
Maintenance calories —2520
————————-
Training days calories —2898
————————-
P 220.5g (882 cal)
C 220.5g (882 cal)
F 126g (1134 cal)
Rest days calories — 2268
————————-
P 220.5g (882 cal)
C 51.45 (205.8)
F 131.1333 (1180.2)
I’m psyched to dive in and get going with this as the basis for my nutrition plan. My one concern, I guess, is that up to now my caloric intake has been much lower than this —especially the fats. I do think the above probably makes sense, since we’re talking about the nutritive needs for building muscle, but, do my calculations in fact seem right?
I’m just surprised at the caloric amounts, and especially the amounts of fat... I know fat gets an underverdly bad rap, but the fat intake this article’s author states for himself is a fair amount lower than what I’ve calculated for myself — I think that could make sense too, because of height and weight differences between us, but, whoa!! While I want to build muscle, I do want to maintain the newly acquired lean physique I’ve finally achieved this year after 20+ years of trying and failing. Curious as to people’s thoughts. Thank you for reading!
1
Replies
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See also this post.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10764368/lean-bulk-question#latest
Cheers, h.0 -
Jeff is vague because he wants you to buy his programs. I think from a lean gain perspective, you have to recognize that you will gain some fat. You minimize it from eating a smaller surplus and have a well structured lifting routine designed with hypertrophy work (not a standard 5x5). The below list is good. I personally like PHAT or PHUL.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Its easier to gain more muscle if you haven't bulked before or have a low training age.
In terms of macros, while there is nothing wrong with those protein levels, they are higher than needed. You could add either more fat or carbs (depending how they effect you).
Overall, get in a surplus of 10-15% over maintenance, train hard and get mostly whole foods.6 -
Jeff is vague because he wants you to buy his programs. I think from a lean gain perspective, you have to recognize that you will gain some fat. You minimize it from eating a smaller surplus and have a well structured lifting routine designed with hypertrophy work (not a standard 5x5). The below list is good. I personally like PHAT or PHUL.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Its easier to gain more muscle if you haven't bulked before or have a low training age.
In terms of macros, while there is nothing wrong with those protein levels, they are higher than needed. You could add either more fat or carbs (depending how they effect you).
Overall, get in a surplus of 10-15% over maintenance, train hard and get mostly whole foods.
Yup.... check into the furious 5 at bodybuilding.com. focus on progressive overload. Extra volume as much as you can.1 -
Jeff is vague because he wants you to buy his programs. I think from a lean gain perspective, you have to recognize that you will gain some fat. You minimize it from eating a smaller surplus and have a well structured lifting routine designed with hypertrophy work (not a standard 5x5). The below list is good. I personally like PHAT or PHUL.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Its easier to gain more muscle if you haven't bulked before or have a low training age.
In terms of macros, while there is nothing wrong with those protein levels, they are higher than needed. You could add either more fat or carbs (depending how they effect you).
Overall, get in a surplus of 10-15% over maintenance, train hard and get mostly whole foods.
Thank you so much man —right off the bat it looks like great advice, I’m going to look this over and process it a bit (if I have some follow-up questions is it okay if I reach out in this thread here?)
One quick comment for right now —I have actually purchased AltheanX’s AX1 program, and the food part —it’s still pretty unclear 🤯 This might just be me being dense —unfortunately it doesn’t seem to register for me. Jeff lists some great menu ideas, for sure— and he has options to swap meals out depending on goals of size or lean, etc. But, he still doesn’t address portions or calculating, and I understand why, I mean, he has his explanations and philosophy, but it doesn’t work for me because I’m very calories/macro oriented. Anyway, that’s just an added thought. I really appreciate your taking the time to reply and I’ll think on this, I’m sure it will help!1 -
psychod787 wrote: »Jeff is vague because he wants you to buy his programs. I think from a lean gain perspective, you have to recognize that you will gain some fat. You minimize it from eating a smaller surplus and have a well structured lifting routine designed with hypertrophy work (not a standard 5x5). The below list is good. I personally like PHAT or PHUL.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Its easier to gain more muscle if you haven't bulked before or have a low training age.
In terms of macros, while there is nothing wrong with those protein levels, they are higher than needed. You could add either more fat or carbs (depending how they effect you).
Overall, get in a surplus of 10-15% over maintenance, train hard and get mostly whole foods.
Yup.... check into the furious 5 at bodybuilding.com. focus on progressive overload. Extra volume as much as you can.
Thanks I’ll check it out! Do you mind my asking, what do you mean by extra volume as much as I can? (Sorry, in some ways, I’m pretty new to all this —granted, I’ve done Beachbody’s “Body Beast” program a couple of times through, and things like that, but that’s just me on my own following a booklet and a bunch of dvds... I’m not yet very informed in general about this whole world of building muscle mass and so on)0 -
Volume is weight × reps × sets. The issue with 5x5 programs (like stronglifts) is that its on the low end of hypertrophy. So its great to form a foundation of strength using 5x5, you are better off moving to a program that has more moves.
So if you have done bodybeast and have access to a gym, it may be ok to start off with a program like StrongLifts but after 3-9 months, move onto a program like PHUL or PHAT.3 -
Volume is weight × reps × sets. The issue with 5x5 programs (like stronglifts) is that its on the low end of hypertrophy. So its great to form a foundation of strength using 5x5, you are better off moving to a program that has more moves.
So if you have done bodybeast and have access to a gym, it may be ok to start off with a program like StrongLifts but after 3-9 months, move onto a program like PHUL or PHAT.
Ok thanks! So I haven’t even thought about strong lifts or anything. Is it necessary? I’m about to start my 3rd week of AX1 —I Don’t use a gym, I actually just have my own weight bench and those stackable weight cube thingees (no barbell/crossbar stand), and I have a pull up bar. Are we saying AX1 won’t get me an increase in size at this point I guess?0 -
Volume is weight × reps × sets. The issue with 5x5 programs (like stronglifts) is that its on the low end of hypertrophy. So its great to form a foundation of strength using 5x5, you are better off moving to a program that has more moves.
So if you have done bodybeast and have access to a gym, it may be ok to start off with a program like StrongLifts but after 3-9 months, move onto a program like PHUL or PHAT.
Ok thanks! So I haven’t even thought about strong lifts or anything. Is it necessary? I’m about to start my 3rd week of AX1 —I Don’t use a gym, I actually just have my own weight bench and those stackable weight cube thingees (no barbell/crossbar stand), and I have a pull up bar. Are we saying AX1 won’t get me an increase in size at this point I guess?
Things like AX1 or BodyBeast can work, but they are probably not optimal. Just depends what your goals are.2 -
Volume is weight × reps × sets. The issue with 5x5 programs (like stronglifts) is that its on the low end of hypertrophy. So its great to form a foundation of strength using 5x5, you are better off moving to a program that has more moves.
So if you have done bodybeast and have access to a gym, it may be ok to start off with a program like StrongLifts but after 3-9 months, move onto a program like PHUL or PHAT.
Ok thanks! So I haven’t even thought about strong lifts or anything. Is it necessary? I’m about to start my 3rd week of AX1 —I Don’t use a gym, I actually just have my own weight bench and those stackable weight cube thingees (no barbell/crossbar stand), and I have a pull up bar. Are we saying AX1 won’t get me an increase in size at this point I guess?
Things like AX1 or BodyBeast can work, but they are probably not optimal. Just depends what your goals are.
Ugh. Okay. It’s sounding like it’s time to re-evaluate —it seems incredibly complicated!0 -
Volume is weight × reps × sets. The issue with 5x5 programs (like stronglifts) is that its on the low end of hypertrophy. So its great to form a foundation of strength using 5x5, you are better off moving to a program that has more moves.
So if you have done bodybeast and have access to a gym, it may be ok to start off with a program like StrongLifts but after 3-9 months, move onto a program like PHUL or PHAT.
Ok thanks! So I haven’t even thought about strong lifts or anything. Is it necessary? I’m about to start my 3rd week of AX1 —I Don’t use a gym, I actually just have my own weight bench and those stackable weight cube thingees (no barbell/crossbar stand), and I have a pull up bar. Are we saying AX1 won’t get me an increase in size at this point I guess?
Things like AX1 or BodyBeast can work, but they are probably not optimal. Just depends what your goals are.
Ugh. Okay. It’s sounding like it’s time to re-evaluate —it seems incredibly complicated!
Its not complicated. But there are ways to do it and then there are more optimal ways of doing it. For example, BodyBeast will work if you are increasing weights over time. But its not as optimal as a well structured lifting routine where you hit each body part 2-3x a week.
I can tell you from personal experience. I started and loved BodyBeast. It got me started in lifting. But my progress was significantly greater with a solid lifting program.4 -
There are studies that suggest a 200 calorie per day surplus is sufficient for bulking, and any calories above that won't increase muscle gain.3
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I would say that you can bulk on a 5x5 or other 5-rep program (I did), however I agree it is not optimal. The 5-rep style programs are focused more on strength than muscle size, while hypertrophy is focused more on muscle size than strength. Some people believe they are exclusive to each other. They are not. You can build size while strength focused and you build strength while size focused. The key, in whatever you do is progressive overload.
For that reason, barbells are what I would recommend, although you can do just fine without them. Barbells are easier to dose because of incremental weights. That said, you can control dose by number or reps if you are using dumb bells or other methods.
If it sounds complicated, it's really not. Just make sure progressive overload is the means.0
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