Tomatoes and the nightshade debate

2

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  • purplefizzy
    purplefizzy Posts: 594 Member
    pancakerunner wrote: »
    I have been reading a lot into nightshades and inflammatory foods and of course tomatoes are on the list of "foods to avoid."

    This leads to the question: do you eat tomatoes? If any of you have cut out tomatoes from your diet, have you seen improvements in your health?

    Raw tomatoes make my stomach hurt. Brutally, which is sad cuz I’d love to eat them. I try again every so often, and always regret it.
    I never liked red sauce (pasta) or pizza with sauce, because the stomach awfulness.

    I did actually play with the no-nightshades thing when I was going thru the bulletproof phase a couple of years back. Eventually I brought back eggplant because I love it, but peppers also make my stomach super mad.

  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,814 Member
    I never really ate tomatoes until I started on my weight loss journey. Since then I incorporate them a lot more (usually along with avocado). I had one tonight. I find them to be enjoyable, filling, and a good way to help volume eat as they have minimal calories. Also, anecdotally, I tend to feel better when I have them vs. when I don't. No idea if that is just in my mind or not, but I certainly don't feel worse.

    I tend to agree with @NovusDies that nowadays everything is considered "bad" for you. If you were to believe every article out there about why not to eat something, there would be almost nothing left to eat. Conversely, most things that are bad also tend to be considered a "superfood", which just makes it more confusing. Google "tomatoes superfood" and you'll find lots of articles extolling all the amazing miracle health benefits of the tomato. I tend to think both sides are mostly noise, and I try to cut it all out and just focus on eating things I enjoy within a calorie deficit while trying to balance macro and micro nutrients. Tomatoes can help with that, so they are a pro in my opinion.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Inflammation is such a difficult thing to discuss right now. On the one hand, there is useful, necessary inflammation that happens in a properly working body. On the other hand, there is unnecessary chronic inflammation that some people who have an allergy or misfiring immune system need to deal with. And on the other other hand, the term "inflammation" has become an alternative health buzzword used to fear monger to ratchet up sales.

    To make matters more complicated, it seems like people with similar immune conditions can have very different triggers. So while one person with RA has to avoid chocolate, another person with RA can eat chocolate but has to avoid something else.

    Just in my own amateur research, I have yet to see anything that conclusively even suggests that a healthy person needs to worry about "inflammatory" foods. I guess if a person has a lot of allergies, or perhaps there is a predominance of immune conditions in their family tree, trying to follow one of the more moderate anti-inflammatory diets out there couldn't hurt as a safeguard, but whether or not it would prevent anything is anyone's guess.

    I grew up on an Italian-American diet, I'm reasonable sure my blood is like 45% tomato paste. I've made it through 46 years so far with no food allergies or sensitivities, no medical conditions or chronic anything, an iron stomach, and great health markers so yes, I'm eating tomatoes. And the garlic that typically goes along with the tomatoes protects me from vampires, so it's win-win for me.

    Who knew vampires liked their blood 45% tomato paste? :)
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    It is impossible to address complex dietary issues in a series of short posts. I would respond more scientifically to direct questions.

    May be if I refer anyone interested in looking into natural chemicals which can cause digestive issues to the e-book, Food can make you ill, by Sharla Race as a very good starting point.

    Much of my information comes from the functional perspective, concepts rejected by general medicine so how can we expect the members of our society who have not had cause to experience Health issues related to the foods we eat. Functional Medicine, uses the same blood tests and other test general medicine does but delves deeper into why a body is doing what it does and set to rectify the dietary/nutritional deficiencies issues before turning to the plasters of medication.

    There is a saying, WE ARE WHAT WE EAT. If we do not absorb the right nutrition for ourselves we are not going to thrive.
  • Athijade
    Athijade Posts: 3,300 Member
    I restrict tomatoes but that is because of the acid in them since I have Interstitial Cystitis and I don't want to be in pain and feeling like I have to pee all the time. I can have them in small amounts without a problem but I can't make a huge thing of spaghetti and tomato sauce and eat it for multiple days like I used to.

    I do not believe nightshades are bad in general at all.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    Thank you, so very much, Paperpudding.

    We are both in agreement, the idea of a liver cleanse in 5, 10 or 15. Is out and out rubbish. Anyone who has liver difficulties needs more than a trivial cleanse. Using NHS permitted testing all was good for me, though I did not get the numbers, giggle. I've learned, its easier to understand things with numbers. Private liver function testing showed up issues in me which were addressed functionally with herbs in products which got the active ingredient past my salicylate intolerance. I don't bother with Hyman either.

    I read Dr Josh Axe, Dr Dave Jockers and Dr Chris Kresser, Qualified in Western and Oriental Medicine including acupuncture. He was taken ill on a gap year and lost his health and was failed by the regular system so he did his own research and training. What I like about those people is they explain things, Axe and Jockers use some good explanatory graphics. There are one or two British doctors, one, a lady who works in the Welsh Marches but I forget her name. There are Histamine Intolerance experts, Allison Vickery and Janice Joneila (?sp) There are many others. There are People who know about Salicylate too.

    I have worked with a BANT registered Nutritionist (UK only) because I wanted my life back and using the NHS I was shut out what they offered only added to my issues. My only available expectation back then was to remain house bound by reactions to the external environment, dietary issues and arthritis. I was unable to go into public places, reacting to peoples perfumes and laundry residues and the dreadful air fresheners in public conveniences, giggle. Sometimes I would cough uncontrollably, or gag, and at one orchestral concert, I had to hold my nose and shallow breath through almost closed lips covered by a large cotton hanky. Life was unliveable. I needed better for my family and myself. I wanted to be out there with them enjoying what they enjoy.

    I am not the first nor the last to have followed the repair oneself by using, appropriate to me, functional methods with enzymes and digestive microbes and supplements, others will have their appropriate combinations. Allergy and intolerances are very personal in both the way you arrive at them and the way they take you. I was hearing about the Nightshade debate over this weekend. A recent research project was unable to substantiate the oft vaunted concept that "nightshade aggravates arthritis" and other pain issues. I believe it is because of the variety of reasons which can under health problems like arthritis that the project failed to find anything. The methodology could also be at fault!

    When you don't have a life worth living you either accept it or try to do something about it. I discovered salicylate intolerance before I found the Professor in immunology, who I consider gave me the key facts of my condition. I had laid out before him, the very same information of how my body reacted as I had to the person from that department who ran the clinic at the local hospital who missed all I had told him, I got to the Reginal Department almost by deception I had talked to Allergy Charities and support numbers who advised I try again. I discovered the salicylate intolerance because having been advised to use pain relief before exercise to kill the pain, I had not been diligent in taking the stuff and felt no pain so I experimented several times, without it, lovely, with it, doubled up. I discovered maize starch was the filler in the paracetamol I was using, its not salicylate. I was that reactive to the Maize starch is high in salicylate!

    I find it intolerable that when there is well regulated research available from eminent institutions the NHS is refused permission by NICE, the board charged with cost-effectiveness etc, to do their own research. NICE, is blinkered and these blinkers are passed down to all NHS employed Doctors who have to toe the line. Our media, science based programs provides us with more relevant, referenced information for those who need to help themselves because they can't achieve support elsewhere.

    Patients have reversed diabeties, resolved gaulstones and other chronic conditions by takeing the apropriate functional aproach. Me, having to give up work because of so many reactions am out and about even minding a 22 month old three days a week. I'm productive. So if someone reads what i have said, does their own research, thinks about how their body works and does what they feel is right for them, the choice being theirs, I am more than content.

    I would not wish anyone to go through all the issues I've endured because of closed minds.

    Paperpudding, you are one of the very last people, I would consider as having a closed mind.
  • Cahgetsfit
    Cahgetsfit Posts: 1,912 Member
    Interesting topic.

    I can't eat raw tomatoes - they just make my mouth go "BLEH" and the supposedly wonderful taste is just not. I have tried a few times too, but I just can't. However, if they are cooked, or sundried - yep, I eat them just fine. Haven't noticed any bloating or anything either with those.

    What I have found is that recently - within the last 3 years or so, I've become sensitive to other nightshades - eggplant and capsicum. They cause me some bloating/gas. I still eat it though. If I have it too often - for example, eggplant 2 or 3 days straight, then it can cause actual gas pain in my stomach, but otherwise, if it's just some once I'll bloat and possibly fart a bit, but not painful.

    Pity, coz I like eggplant and capsicums.

    And apparently that I can't even with tomatoes thing is a thing - I read ages ago somewhere that there is some enzyme or something that some people can't handle with raw tomato. I can't post links, this was >20 years ago that I read about it. But when speaking to other people who "don't like" tomatoes, I've noticed we've had similar issues with it - the whole weird in the mouth thing and not tasting delicious like it's supposed to. It's almost hard to swallow even.

  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    I had not intended to give offence. I am guilty of miss typing. What i typed came out wrong, reading as a back handed swipe, which was not my intention at all. I know from other threads, with comments of yours you do take a real interest in health and your mind is far from closed. which is how i intended it to read. I deeply apologise.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    I do not find that tomatoes or any nightshade affect my inflammation. i have found it affects my acid reflux. paste or sauce is tolerable. whole/sliced not good
    bell peppers are even worse for me.

    i hate eggplant. so i wouldn't know about that
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    Paperpudding. Thank you so much. I absolutely hate animosity, it has never been my way to be offensive. I would give you a hug were I able. Its good we can come to these pages with our own views. Thank you
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,301 Member
    t5123.gif

    Gosh we will do mods out of a job disagreeing in such friendly lovey dovey style ;)B):)
  • teresa19622015
    teresa19622015 Posts: 34 Member
    I eat tomatoes every day. I think it’s the case with any food - for most people it will be fine, some people have certain issues so should avoid.
  • whitpauly
    whitpauly Posts: 1,483 Member
    I've never bought into the whole nightshade thing,I have a friend who's big on all the hype that goes around and she avoids gluten,sugar, dairy,nightshades etc she's constantly lecturing me about my frat boy style of eating but honestly I have no problem with any of the foods I like to eat,I honestly don't think she'd have much problem eating whatever either she just likes following fad's and the above mentioned "Dr.'s"
  • pancakerunner
    pancakerunner Posts: 6,137 Member

    whitpauly wrote: »
    I've never bought into the whole nightshade thing,I have a friend who's big on all the hype that goes around and she avoids gluten,sugar, dairy,nightshades etc she's constantly lecturing me about my frat boy style of eating but honestly I have no problem with any of the foods I like to eat,I honestly don't think she'd have much problem eating whatever either she just likes following fad's and the above mentioned "Dr.'s"

    Right. I think a lot of people fall into these fads as a placebo...
  • LZMiner
    LZMiner Posts: 300 Member
    Should've searched before posting a new post. Yes, nightshade sensitivity is a thing. I have child who loves spaghetti and meatballs, anything with a red sauce, but over the past six months, she's developed an almost allergic reaction...violent vomiting the morning after. She's been to the ER three times because the vomiting is so extreme.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,374 Member
    LZMiner wrote: »
    Should've searched before posting a new post. Yes, nightshade sensitivity is a thing. I have child who loves spaghetti and meatballs, anything with a red sauce, but over the past six months, she's developed an almost allergic reaction...violent vomiting the morning after. She's been to the ER three times because the vomiting is so extreme.

    A definite sensitivity. The problem is that certain Dr types (just like with gluten) want to hype it as a problem for all living human beings on the planet when only an extremely small number (think fractions of a percent) actually have the issue.
  • ladyzherra
    ladyzherra Posts: 438 Member
    I had bloodwork done years ago because I had a lot of inflammation and autoimmune disorders. For many years, I just did not eat any of the extraordinary numbers of foods that I was sensitive or allergic to, including tomatoes. However, when I went vegan (and did not eat any animal products), I had to eat all of my allergens because it was all I could eat (vegetables). I have not had any problems with inflammation since I went vegan. When I began veganism, I ate some meat about 6 months into it becauase I was unsure if I wanted to keep it up. I swelled up like a balloon! It was crazy. Meat!? I had no allergens to meat. But...your guess is as good as mine.

    Tomatoes can cause reactions for many people. Sometimes, though, it isn't just the tomato...apparently.
  • LZMiner
    LZMiner Posts: 300 Member
    ladyzherra wrote: »
    I had bloodwork done years ago because I had a lot of inflammation and autoimmune disorders. For many years, I just did not eat any of the extraordinary numbers of foods that I was sensitive or allergic to, including tomatoes. However, when I went vegan (and did not eat any animal products), I had to eat all of my allergens because it was all I could eat (vegetables). I have not had any problems with inflammation since I went vegan. When I began veganism, I ate some meat about 6 months into it becauase I was unsure if I wanted to keep it up. I swelled up like a balloon! It was crazy. Meat!? I had no allergens to meat. But...your guess is as good as mine.

    Tomatoes can cause reactions for many people. Sometimes, though, it isn't just the tomato...apparently.

    My daughter has autoimmune disorders, too. Graves Disease. Just recently had Radioactive Iodine treatment. Hugs to you...
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,580 Member
    ladyzherra wrote: »
    I had bloodwork done years ago because I had a lot of inflammation and autoimmune disorders. For many years, I just did not eat any of the extraordinary numbers of foods that I was sensitive or allergic to, including tomatoes. However, when I went vegan (and did not eat any animal products), I had to eat all of my allergens because it was all I could eat (vegetables). I have not had any problems with inflammation since I went vegan. When I began veganism, I ate some meat about 6 months into it becauase I was unsure if I wanted to keep it up. I swelled up like a balloon! It was crazy. Meat!? I had no allergens to meat. But...your guess is as good as mine.

    Tomatoes can cause reactions for many people. Sometimes, though, it isn't just the tomato...apparently.

    Some amount of bad reaction is pretty normal, if eating meat after a long-ish period of no-exception strict plant-based eating, or potentially even after less restrictive forms of vegetarianism. It's about adaptation in things like gut microbiome, I suspect. There's been only pretty preliminary research, but I saw a small crossover study that suggests (1) there's quite a difference** between gut microbiome amongst long-term plant-only vs. meaty omnivore eaters, and (2) the crossover (veg eaters started eating meat, meat eaters stopped) found that adaptation happens as fast as a couple of weeks, IIRC, and definitely faster than researchers anticipated.

    Symptoms of eating meat after a long interval (or dramatically and suddenly increasing plants, for that matter) would probably differ by person, but things like excessive gas, nausea, bloating, constipation, diarrhea, etc. might be good guesses as possibilities, and the severity probably dose-dependent.

    You may have developed new allergies, of course, I'm not suggesting otherwise. But adaptation alone can provoke some symptoms.

    ** Read that carefully, please :flowerforyou: . I didn't say that plant-based eaters have a better microbiome. There's very limited sound science on the subject so far, mostly amounting to it looking as if more diverse microbiome correlates with improved outcomes vs. less diversity, but not about which bugs are good, or why/how. And I'm not saying plant-eaters have more diverse microbiome than omnivores, either. Just different.
  • jwoolman5
    jwoolman5 Posts: 191 Member
    I have food allergies and do react to tomatoes if I eat them too often. One tomato or its equivalent in sauce per week seems safe for me, after a long period of avoidance initially. A lot of food allergies and intolerances are like that - avoid them for a long time and then you might be able to handle reasonable portions at intervals.

    Every different form of a food should be tested separately because the potentially allergenic portion changes with processing. Cooked vs raw, for example may affect someone differently. Also organically grown should be tried because some people are actually just very sensitive to pesticide residues or in the case of animal products - traces of antibiotics.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. So if you have no problems with tomatoes, keep on chowing down on them. When it's suggested to avoid tomatoes or nightshades in general, that just means that some people find they do better without them and so if you have chronic problems, diet is something you can easily and safely fiddle with to track down any food-related problems.

    And inappropriate inflammation does seem to be the root of many troubles, at least for me, so if a food is known for promoting inflammation in susceptible people and you think you might be susceptible - it's good to try elimination followed by reintroduction to see if it helps you in particular. It might or it might not. Doesn't hurt to test it. There is no minimum daily requirement for any food other than water....

    Some people may simply be having trouble with the acidity of some foods. One interesting product to try is Prelief that is mainly just calcium glycerophosphate. It is categorized as an acid reducer and claims to moderate the acidic portions of foods like tomatoes while not adversely affecting stomach pH (you don't want to reduce gastric juice acidity, that's needed for proper digestion). Might be worth trying it if you think the acidity of tomatoes is your issue. You can look on amazon for reviews of it. I first saw it mentioned in forums for people with interstitial cystitis, since often it is suggested to eliminate tomatoes and other acidic foods to avoid irritation of the urinary tract. I haven't tried it consistently enough to know if it works for me, but I really should give it a decent trial myself. I vaguely recall thinking it did help with tomatoes and other foods when I tried it before. Not a miracle cure, but any improvement is welcome.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    whitpauly wrote: »
    I've never bought into the whole nightshade thing,I have a friend who's big on all the hype that goes around and she avoids gluten,sugar, dairy,nightshades etc she's constantly lecturing me about my frat boy style of eating but honestly I have no problem with any of the foods I like to eat,I honestly don't think she'd have much problem eating whatever either she just likes following fad's and the above mentioned "Dr.'s"

    I don't know what you mean by the bolded - are you saying that no one is sensitive to nightshades or, like gluten, more people avoid them than need to?
  • jwoolman5
    jwoolman5 Posts: 191 Member
    People are allowed to avoid any food for any reason or no reason at all. It gets tiresome when some folk think they have to trivialize other food choices or shame their friends and family because they don't want to eat nightshades, gluten, sugar, dairy, meat, or whatever.

    Why does it matter to anyone if someone else doesn't eat what they eat? If you are preparing a meal, nobody is going to starve if they avoid eating parts of it. I am living proof...

    The world is full of foods of all sorts. Foods common in our culture may not even exist in others, and vice versa. No food but water is essential to life. There is no minimum daily requirement for nightshades. Or wheat. Or dairy. Or caraway.

    I hate the taste of caraway seeds. Much to my mother's dismay, I carefully picked them out of rye bread before I would eat it. Caraway makes everything taste yuck to me. It's a lonely challenge, since I love rye and it's hard to find rye bread uncontaminated by the dreaded caraway beast.

    I really wish someone would decide caraway is a health hazard so there would be more of a market for caraway-free rye bread. I will wait patiently for that day, since I have seen wheat-free and vegan offerings explode in the marketplace (I'm a vegetarian allergic to dairy and egg and get persistent heartburn if I eat wheat too frequently).

    Anyway, I'm allowed to be respected as a caraway-avoider, even if the rest of the world doesn't join me. :)

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