Low Muscle Mass due to weight loss- What SUPPLEMENTS can I take to aid in my fitness routine?
QueenofCaffeine4Life
Posts: 88 Member
I have lost right at 40lbs. YAY ME. I have started walking for cardio. Trying to slowly build strength in my legs and such. I do have a few hand weights that I am now using to build a little arm muscle. My blood work is stellar! Almost everything is absolutely perfect except too low levels of creatinine & creatinine/BUN ratios in my blood stream. Research tells me that is losing muscle mass or liver issues. The doctor said that it isn't anything to worry about now but we could watch it.
So with that said.................other than continuing to walk and do light hand weights what else do you suggest. Is there a supplement that can help build my muscles as I work out? Other than joining a gym what else can I do to build muscle?
So with that said.................other than continuing to walk and do light hand weights what else do you suggest. Is there a supplement that can help build my muscles as I work out? Other than joining a gym what else can I do to build muscle?
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Replies
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Muscles come from lifting heavier and heavier weights, plus enough protein and carbohydrate. Sounds like you could use a creatine supplement though.10
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Thank you! Is there a supplement you suggest, such as brand or dosage?
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Since your creatine and creatinine levels are both low, it basically just mean you are deficient in creatine.
Creaitine monohydrate is all you should consider buying. Take 5g daily with no mind to timing. Also one doesn't need perform a loading of it. Just take the dosage.
Walking isn't going to build muscle nor will hand weights. At least significant to notice.
Suppliments do not build muscle as if they did, everyone could be jacked easily.
To build muscle you must apply proper useful stress or stimulus to your muscles. This is done by resistance training.
Also in general if you are losing weight, you won't build significant muscle. One of the many benefits of training during weight loss is help to retain muscle.
I suggest finding a template that suits your interests and goal that has auto regulation built in and progressively increases the load in a intelligent manner.12 -
Protein (0.8 grams daily per lb of body weight I believe) and a good strength training program. You don't need a gym for building muscle. Look into Mark Lauren's "Body By You", your library will probably even have it. Three days a week, no equipment necessary.2
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QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »Thank you! Is there a supplement you suggest, such as brand or dosage?
Just search for "Creatine Monohydrate Powder Micronized" on Amazon. It's super cheap.0 -
No, you should not be taking any supplements. You should not overreact to a single blood test. Your doctor is giving you the correct advice. This could be a temporary anomaly that requires no intervention whatsoever.
It’s easy to “overread” medical articles. When they mention “low muscle mass”, it’s in the context of a serious disease such as muscular dystrophy. It can also be a sign of liver or kidney—which would also be extremely rare.
The blood levels could be explained by temporary dehydration.
In other words there are a number of factors that could be involved, or it could be nothing at all.
Taking a supplement like creatine would not be indicated to increase creatinine levels, even though it would likely do so. That is because low creatinine levels are symptom, not a cause. Taking creatine to raise creatinine levels would be like continuing to dump water in a leaking bucket without fixing the leak.
Again, in this case, I doubt there is anything to “fix”. If you have concerns about muscle loss from weight loss, then eat sufficient protein and lift weights. That’s what you should be doing anyway, both for weight loss and a generally healthy lifestyle.
As your doctor has told you, monitor the situation and take additional action if necessary, but only after you have more data.
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No, you should not be taking any supplements.
In other words there are a number of factors that could be involved, or it could be nothing at all.
Taking a supplement like creatine would not be indicated to increase creatinine levels, even though it would likely do so. That is because low creatinine levels are symptom, not a cause. Taking creatine to raise creatinine levels would be like continuing to dump water in a leaking bucket without fixing the leak.
Again, in this case, I doubt there is anything to “fix”. If you have concerns about muscle loss from weight loss, then eat sufficient protein and lift weights. That’s what you should be doing anyway, both for weight loss and a generally healthy lifestyle.
Any doctor that has read studies on creatine and it's benefits will tell you there is no harm taking creatine and about a 66% chance it would benefit a normal healthy person such as the OP.
Part of the benefits of eating animal protein is in fact the creatine along with adequate EAAs to allow MPS to happen.
There is nothing to be concerned with creatine in almost everybody and benefits to gain for pennies. Every doctor I know that is well versed in the benefits of training and will tell you this.
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No, you should not be taking any supplements.
In other words there are a number of factors that could be involved, or it could be nothing at all.
Taking a supplement like creatine would not be indicated to increase creatinine levels, even though it would likely do so. That is because low creatinine levels are symptom, not a cause. Taking creatine to raise creatinine levels would be like continuing to dump water in a leaking bucket without fixing the leak.
Again, in this case, I doubt there is anything to “fix”. If you have concerns about muscle loss from weight loss, then eat sufficient protein and lift weights. That’s what you should be doing anyway, both for weight loss and a generally healthy lifestyle.
Any doctor that has read studies on creatine and it's benefits will tell you there is no harm taking creatine and about a 66% chance it would benefit a normal healthy person such as the OP.
Part of the benefits of eating animal protein is in fact the creatine along with adequate EAAs to allow MPS to happen.
There is nothing to be concerned with creatine in almost everybody and benefits to gain for pennies. Every doctor I know that is well versed in the benefits of training and will tell you this.
The discussion is not whether creatine has any benefits. It’s about whether it is indicated for use in the OP’s case.
We don’t know the OP’s actual issues other than a single, not particularly sensitive lab reading. So there is no reason to blindly recommend she take creatine.
In any case, using creatine in this case is irrelevant since it would not address any possible medical issues related to her lab readings.
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NorthCascades wrote: »Muscles come from lifting heavier and heavier weights, plus enough protein and carbohydrate. Sounds like you could use a creatine supplement though.
That would work, or you could just include more red meat in your diet and get it without supplementation.1 -
QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »The doctor said that it isn't anything to worry about now but we could watch it.
Quoted for emphasis....
Both in this thread and your weight loss clinic thread you show a concern (if not outright anxiety!) about muscle loss - so join that gym and start training.7 -
No, you should not be taking any supplements. You should not overreact to a single blood test. Your doctor is giving you the correct advice. This could be a temporary anomaly that requires no intervention whatsoever.
It’s easy to “overread” medical articles. When they mention “low muscle mass”, it’s in the context of a serious disease such as muscular dystrophy. It can also be a sign of liver or kidney—which would also be extremely rare.
The blood levels could be explained by temporary dehydration.
In other words there are a number of factors that could be involved, or it could be nothing at all.
Taking a supplement like creatine would not be indicated to increase creatinine levels, even though it would likely do so. That is because low creatinine levels are symptom, not a cause. Taking creatine to raise creatinine levels would be like continuing to dump water in a leaking bucket without fixing the leak.
Again, in this case, I doubt there is anything to “fix”. If you have concerns about muscle loss from weight loss, then eat sufficient protein and lift weights. That’s what you should be doing anyway, both for weight loss and a generally healthy lifestyle.
As your doctor has told you, monitor the situation and take additional action if necessary, but only after you have more data.
Completely agree with this. Analysis takes multiple readings over time and in context. In text the OP stated only what they believe important, but there are countless other variables at play which were not stated.
What other supplements, vitamins, OTCs, prescription medications are you taking? What's your medical history?
To the OP - resistance training over time is what matters. Compound movements are currently the best means of doing so - take a look at the Stronglifts 5x5 or similar program. Keep detailed notes on your training and share these with your medical professional.
From what you've stated this is little more than a matter of increased progressive resistance training and time.4 -
QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »The doctor said that it isn't anything to worry about now but we could watch it.
Quoted for emphasis....
Both in this thread and your weight loss clinic thread you show a concern (if not outright anxiety!) about muscle loss - so join that gym and start training.
This. Walking and light hand weights aren't enough...they really aren't. If can't join a gym you need to at least work with bodyweight exercises, resistance bands, running, hiking etc.
The human body evolved to walk 40 miles a day and hunt sabertooth tigers. It's made for SO MUCH MORE than brisk walking and 5lb dumbbells.3 -
QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »The doctor said that it isn't anything to worry about now but we could watch it.
Quoted for emphasis....
Both in this thread and your weight loss clinic thread you show a concern (if not outright anxiety!) about muscle loss - so join that gym and start training.
I am not anxious. I am inquisitive. I assumed that was what community was for....for asking a question that you didn't know the answer to and getting responses or for simple discussion. I am ignorant when it comes to fitness. I have lost and gained the same 50lbs or so on and off for at least the last 15 years of my life. As of May 2019 I began to take my health a lot more seriously. So pardon me if I am asking a question that seems to be trivial to some. Its not to me. Nor is doing any more damage to this 44 year old body of mine. I have seen both my primary care doctor and a weight loss clinic. Both of which have different opinions and goals for me.
As far as one poster asked....
I am over all healthy. The only markers that were low were those that I originally discussed. I only take one pill a day and that is HRP (hormone replacement therapy). I am over all healthy! However, according the weight loss clinics REV test I have a very slow metabolism. With dieting it is not getting better but worse.
SO YES>....I don't want to do anymore harm or damage to myself than I have already done.
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QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »The doctor said that it isn't anything to worry about now but we could watch it.
Quoted for emphasis....
Both in this thread and your weight loss clinic thread you show a concern (if not outright anxiety!) about muscle loss - so join that gym and start training.
I am not anxious. I am inquisitive. I assumed that was what community was for....for asking a question that you didn't know the answer to and getting responses or for simple discussion. I am ignorant when it comes to fitness. I have lost and gained the same 50lbs or so on and off for at least the last 15 years of my life. As of May 2019 I began to take my health a lot more seriously. So pardon me if I am asking a question that seems to be trivial to some. Its not to me. Nor is doing any more damage to this 44 year old body of mine. I have seen both my primary care doctor and a weight loss clinic. Both of which have different opinions and goals for me.
As far as one poster asked....
I am over all healthy. The only markers that were low were those that I originally discussed. I only take one pill a day and that is HRP (hormone replacement therapy). I am over all healthy! However, according the weight loss clinics REV test I have a very slow metabolism. With dieting it is not getting better but worse.
SO YES>....I don't want to do anymore harm or damage to myself than I have already done.
Pardon me for giving up my time to help a stranger!
I and others are helping to try and fix your ignorance about fitness and diet, you are welcome to ignore people if you don't like what you hear but being receptive would be a wiser choice.
My advice stands, if you are concerned about muscle loss then use them, challenge them (not just walking and "hand weights"). Simple as that, no pills, potions or supplements required.
Part of the reason many people keep failing to lose and keep off their excess weight is the constant search for something extra to put in their mouth - as opposed to putting less in their mouth and moving a bit more. Now that might include you or it might not but suggest you at least have a think about it.
Use it or lose it applies whether you are dieting or not, I once lost a huge amount of muscle despite a large calorie surplus and plentiful protein just because I couldn't use my muscles.
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We do know that according to OP her/his blood work is steller. If there was any red flags involving the use of creatine they would of been addressed after the blood test with more screening. Being low on creatine and creatinine isn't a reason to not take creatine. High levels could be. Lets not nocebo here.No, you should not be taking any supplements.
In other words there are a number of factors that could be involved, or it could be nothing at all.
Taking a supplement like creatine would not be indicated to increase creatinine levels, even though it would likely do so. That is because low creatinine levels are symptom, not a cause. Taking creatine to raise creatinine levels would be like continuing to dump water in a leaking bucket without fixing the leak.
Again, in this case, I doubt there is anything to “fix”. If you have concerns about muscle loss from weight loss, then eat sufficient protein and lift weights. That’s what you should be doing anyway, both for weight loss and a generally healthy lifestyle.
Any doctor that has read studies on creatine and it's benefits will tell you there is no harm taking creatine and about a 66% chance it would benefit a normal healthy person such as the OP.
Part of the benefits of eating animal protein is in fact the creatine along with adequate EAAs to allow MPS to happen.
There is nothing to be concerned with creatine in almost everybody and benefits to gain for pennies. Every doctor I know that is well versed in the benefits of training and will tell you this.
The discussion is not whether creatine has any benefits. It’s about whether it is indicated for use in the OP’s case.
We don’t know the OP’s actual issues other than a single, not particularly sensitive lab reading. So there is no reason to blindly recommend she take creatine.
In any case, using creatine in this case is irrelevant since it would not address any possible medical issues related to her lab readings.
There is no reason to blindly not recommend creatine in this case. None.
I wasn't addressing her persumedly low level of creatine. It "should" be taken for it's benefits since there is extremely low risk and a yield worth the investment. There is overwhelming amounts of established evidence of it's benefits to those who respond.
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I am not going to address the OP since she has made it clear that she only wanted specific supplement dosage information, and I want to respect that.
But for the larger audience, I want to make a couple of points:
It’s common for people to talk about “damage” to their “metabolism” caused by diet practices or weight loss. While there can be a modest reduction in REE after weight loss (due to thermic adaptation, not “damage), actual “Metabolic damage” is rare and usually only occurs in extreme cases, not with normal weight loss strategies—even rapid weight loss strategies.
Almost as equally rare are actual cases of “slow metabolism”. I have researched this both as a health/fitness professional and also because 10 years ago I seriously considered investing in equipment to do such testing. I was out of work and the thought of becoming an independent, itinerant metabolic tester was highly appealing (still is, TBH). However, what I found out is that most people fall close enough into the range of “normal” as calculated by the standard prediction equations, that it would be hard to sell that service. There are a wide range of devices available to health professionals to “measure” resting metabolism. The quality and accuracy of these devices is quite variable.
So I will admit up front that my bias is to assume that when people talk about “damaged metabolism” or “slow metabolism” is that they are mistaken and that informs my responses.
But lastly, even if it is true that one has “metabolic damage” or “slow metabolism”, the question remains: What are you going to do about it? Unless it’s a clinical condition that can be medically treated (e.g. underactive thyroid), there’s not much someone can do for themselves...except...
Adequate protein and exercise, esp resistance training.
That’s why I try not to get too bogged down into determining whether someone’s anecdote that they have “metabolic damage” is actually true or not. My response as a fitness professional is going to be the same.
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Azdak - slow metabolism... wouldn't that usually (not always) mean low thyroid? and that would be something the doctor would treat as well as informing the patient, no?
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youcantflexcardio wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Muscles come from lifting heavier and heavier weights, plus enough protein and carbohydrate. Sounds like you could use a creatine supplement though.
That would work, or you could just include more red meat in your diet and get it without supplementation.
I'm a vegetation.2 -
OP could you try some resistance training and see if you like it? I was anti lifting for years cos the wright room seemed intimidating. If you are interested there’s info about beginners programmes in the gaining and bodybuilding part of this site. Some of the programmes are dumb bells if you don’t want to use a barbell. Take a look at least.3
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Thanks for all of your suggestions and information.
I accept all advice. I don't mind reading any ones suggestions to me regarding the question I asked.
I obviously know the rule of "eat less, move more". Which is exactly what I am doing! Going from an 8-5 job sitting on my butt all day then going home and watching tv until I get up to go to bed to walking 3-5 miles almost daily, riding my bike, doing a few arms reps and such is a heck of a lot of change for just 4 months.
My biggest fear was I am not doing something correctly or doing more harm than good.1 -
zebasschick wrote: »Azdak - slow metabolism... wouldn't that usually (not always) mean low thyroid? and that would be something the doctor would treat as well as informing the patient, no?
I’m not sure I understand the question. I did mention low thyroid in my comment as one defined “slow metabolism” condition that a doctor would treat.
Are you saying that you consider most claims of “metabolic damage” to be as a result of low thyroid?
In my mind (purely subjective of course) I define “metabolic damage” as used in a weight loss context as meaning some type of undefined “slowing” of resting metabolism caused by very low caloric intake or what is called “yo-yo dieting”.
Research has suggested that such “damage” does not really occur except in extreme cases (eg eating disorders) and that what most people consider “slow metabolism” is actually a combination of underestimating calorie intake and overestimating output.
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^This is what it takes to build muscle, with the lower, wider bases being what support and must be there for the upper levels to matter.
No amount of supplementation will really matter in the grand scheme of things if you aren't consistently following a program that leads to meeting level 3, progression. If you aren't doing resistance that gets harder over time, there's not point in worry about supplements - there's nothing for them to supplement.14 -
QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »The doctor said that it isn't anything to worry about now but we could watch it.
Quoted for emphasis....
Both in this thread and your weight loss clinic thread you show a concern (if not outright anxiety!) about muscle loss - so join that gym and start training.
I am not anxious. I am inquisitive. I assumed that was what community was for....for asking a question that you didn't know the answer to and getting responses or for simple discussion. I am ignorant when it comes to fitness. I have lost and gained the same 50lbs or so on and off for at least the last 15 years of my life. As of May 2019 I began to take my health a lot more seriously. So pardon me if I am asking a question that seems to be trivial to some. Its not to me. Nor is doing any more damage to this 44 year old body of mine. I have seen both my primary care doctor and a weight loss clinic. Both of which have different opinions and goals for me.
As far as one poster asked....
I am over all healthy. The only markers that were low were those that I originally discussed. I only take one pill a day and that is HRP (hormone replacement therapy). I am over all healthy! However, according the weight loss clinics REV test I have a very slow metabolism. With dieting it is not getting better but worse.
SO YES>....I don't want to do anymore harm or damage to myself than I have already done.
REV as in low testosterone?
Is this a medical clinic or a commercial clinic?1 -
https://korr.com/metabolic-test-equipment/
Sorry...I typed REV. It's actually ReeVue. This is the test the medical clinic gives to determine metabolism speeds.
@CSARdiver1 -
QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »https://korr.com/metabolic-test-equipment/
Sorry...I typed REV. It's actually ReeVue. This is the test the medical clinic gives to determine metabolism speeds.
@CSARdiver
Thanks! Note that these devices carry a high degree of inaccuracy and largely guided by the latest calibration date and the skill of the technician.
How low is low? Would you reveal the data and were multiple readings taken over time?
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I wish I had my paperwork to show you. They do a sliding scale. The first time tested was May 1. My reading was -27% on the scale.
The scale starts at 0 being normal. 1+ would go up to the point of higher or highest level of metabolism. Then of course it goes to the negative -1 and below would be showing as the lower metabolism.
Like I said the first time taken mine was -27%
Second time was the last week of June it had improved to -10%
Then taken last week it was again lower amount hovering to the -27% again.
I am going to see if I can find my copies of the paperwork. Just so you can see what I am talking about.
The clinic then bases your caloric needs based on your metabolism results.0 -
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QueenofCaffeine4Life wrote: »I wish I had my paperwork to show you. They do a sliding scale. The first time tested was May 1. My reading was -27% on the scale.
The scale starts at 0 being normal. 1+ would go up to the point of higher or highest level of metabolism. Then of course it goes to the negative -1 and below would be showing as the lower metabolism.
Like I said the first time taken mine was -27%
Second time was the last week of June it had improved to -10%
Then taken last week it was again lower amount hovering to the -27% again.
I am going to see if I can find my copies of the paperwork. Just so you can see what I am talking about.
The clinic then bases your caloric needs based on your metabolism results.
Have you been losing weight prior to taking this measurement?
Weight loss is going to cause adaptive thermogenesis which is going to lower the RMR / BMR until one has been at maintenance for at least a week or two.0 -
@magnusthenerd No I started with them on May 1. So I wasn't losing prior to this. The pic above our discussion is the testing sheet. For weight loss they had me eating 550-650 calories of protein only in the first week. Then the second week I could add 2 cups of veggies or 1 cup veggie and 1 fruit. Plus a few misc. items. Also two (thumbprint size) fats a day. Once I went up to -10% they upped my protein calories to 600-700 calories of protein along with the two cups veggies and small amount of fat.0
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Oh, it looks the the REE isn't a stastical standard, it is just the Harris-Benedict equation. Yeah, your metabolism probably isn't that slow, it is just a matter of Harris-Benedict is going to break when trying to predict people who are outliers of composition. Harris-Benedict assumes an average metabolic level of each lb / kg of body mass, but when dealing with a 275 lb, 5'7" woman, it is going to skew by the fact that a lot of that tissue is going to be fat mass which has very low metabolic activity compared to other tissue.
In fact, guideliens for using the Harris-Benedict equation state:
"For patients who weigh more than 30% of ideal body weight, an adjusted ideal body weight should be used—otherwise, actual body weight should be used to calculate the energy requirement."
No such adjustment is being made in that 1963 predicted REE they're giving you.
This is sloppy methodology on the part of your practitioners - they're just handing you a number with no context or understanding on their part.7
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