Bench press stuck

Erik8484

wiigelec wrote: »

Ah yes but he never said he tried 7 and failed so perhaps he did indeed have more than maybe one or two reps left...

Of course it is all relatively pointless speculation the only way for the op to know for sure he is stuck at 175 is to put 176 on the bar and give it a whirl!

Maybe!

wiigelec

Besides maybe the 175 was a really crappy day and the 180 is attempted on a stellar day.

Isn’t that what rpe is about?

Erik8484

RPE stands for rated perceived exertion, and is a scale on which you rate each set. An RPE 9 would mean you could have completed 1 more repetition at that weight in that set, 8 that you could have completed 2 more repetitions at that weight in that set, and so on. An increment of 0.5, such as 8.5, would mean that you definitely could have completed 1 more repetition, and maybe 2.

In my experience, RPE based training usually works around setting a target number of sets and reps, and a target RPE for those sets and reps. The athlete then determinines the appropriate weight, based on the target sets, reps and RPE. Looking at your most recent training logs, you might decide that 1 set x 6 reps @ 175 was an RPE 10 (maximal effort, couldn't have completed another rep). If your coach told you to do 5 sets of 5 reps @ RPE 8, you might then predict that 170lbs would be a good weight. If you were having a bad day (e.g. a bad hangover), and were feeling weak, maybe you'd choose 165 or 160 instead. If you were having a great day (full of beans), maybe you'd give 175 a go.

RPE is necessarily subjective, and people make mistakes. A beginner might estimate that a set was RPE 10, when in fact he/she just wasn't used to pushing him/herself, and gave up. Conversely, a beginner might estimate that a set was RPE 9, when in fact there is no way that he/she could have finished another rep. The more you train and assess your RPE, the better you get at estimating.

Erik8484

MDC2957 wrote: »

6r at 175 for me, that's really struggling, form breaking down just to get the weight up. I don't consider them 6 perfect clean reps. That's why I call it a wall. It sounds like some here are saying the way to overcome that is to increase the weight and do less reps.

I mean, if you want to bench more than 175, one way would be to do fewer than 6 reps, but then you're just trading off more weight for fewer reps, and you're not necessarily getting any stronger.

When I was progressing from a novice lifter to a more intermediate lifter, I followed a free program called "the bridge" by barbell medicine. Broadly speaking, the key ideas that I took from the program (in respect of benching) were to bench press twice per week (a handfull of sets each time, not counting any warm up sets), with most of my sets being done @ around RPE 8 (i.e. 2 reps left in the tank). I would aim to get stronger, and increase my weights each week, even if only by 2.5 or 5lbs.

I understand that this kind of training is heavy enough to force the muscles to become stronger, while not being so heavy that you can't recover before the next session. If you stick to RPE 8, most people can also complete 5 sets x 5 reps at a single weight, rather than having to drop the weight to complete the reps.

Looking at your training logs from 30 September, I see a huge difference between how I progressed my bench press and what you're currently doing. I would have said that your first 3 sets were warm ups only (too light to make you stronger), your next 2 sets at 175 lbs were probably maximal effort (too heavy to get enough volume without negatively affecting the rest of your sets), 8 reps @ 155 lbs might have been a good weight (but may have been too heavy if you were exhausted from the prior 2 sets), and the rest of your sets were just too light again.

The free program can be found here if you're interested. It might not necessarily be the right program for you, but it's a 30 page PDF with a lot of good information about training philosophy so I think it's a worthwhile read regardless.
https://www.barbellmedicine.com/the-bridge/

cupcakesandproteinshakes

OP I’m nowhere near as well versed as others who have advised but I ran the bridge with good results and RPE is a useful way of training if you are semi serious about lifting. Barbell medicine has great resources on line some free and some paid. There’s a good Facebook page as well.

wiigelec

Pretty much every program I have ever seen incorporates some method of increasing intensity and reducing volume, including The Bridge:

Bench
W1 - 1x5@8
W2 - 4x5@8
W3 - 4x5@8
W4 - 5x5@8
W5 - 4x5@8
W6 - 4x4@8
W7 - 4x3@9
W8 - 1x3@9

Do volume and also go heavier for less reps is one of those common overlaps in methodology...

wiigelec

Not that one can surmise much from two days of logs, but what I see is little rhyme nor reason in your warmups or load, rep and set selection.

You might consider running a standard linear progression program for a few weeks in order to establish some organized training patterns in your routine:

https://blackironbeast.com/starting-strength

wiigelec

Another question would be how much time are you resting between sets of 175#?

5+ minutes is likely appropriate in this case...

mreichard

I know less about this stuff than people you’re already getting advice from, but I’d say don’t back off weight just yet. You can optimize your warmup and work sets and probably make more progress. I think many people would probably agree:

1. Limit warmup sets to as many reps as you work sets. Get rid of the high rep warmups. Those might possibly cost you a work set rep.

2. Add a couple of reps closer to you work set rep. 40 lbs is a big jump. Today for 4x5 @205, I did 5@45, 5@95, 5@135, 3@175 and 3@195. Lots of people do better with fewer heavy warmup sets, but I wouldn’t do lots of light reps then jump to your work weight with one 40 pound jump.

4. Take longer rests to go up in weight.

5. I’m coming back from an injury and having luck with a two day a week higher rep/lower rep plan like wiggelec suggested.

mreichard

Yeah, assuming some of the 20 or 21 reps are really light, sure.

I am probably different than many people in adding that last heavy warmup set (and it’s probably costing me a work set rep), but I find that a heavy last warmup set helps me focus on form (shoulder blades back, everything tight). I’ve hurt my shoulders a lot previously benching wrong, so avoiding injury is my priority. Many people would probably not do that set and be fine.

wiigelec

https://www.andybaker.com/warm/

wiigelec

1) Establish last warm up set first. This will be for a single approximately 5-10% below the target workset weight.

For 175 say 155 - 160

2) Plan the warm up progression backwards from here using somewhat even increments until you arrive at the empty bar.

Say 30#

So:

45
75
105
135
160
175

3) Do as many sets with the bar as it takes to start to feel loose and pliable. This will vary day to day and lift to lift.

Say for todays bench 2x10

4) The first warm up set with weight is done for 5

75x5

5) The second warm up set is done for a triple

105x3

6) All other warm up sets done for singles

135x1
160x1

So final result:

45 x 2 x 10
75 x 5
105 x 3
135 x 1
160 x 1
175 x work sets/reps

Erik8484

I agree that the warm ups must largely be about personal preference, given the relative weights.

For me, assuming that my working sets are 5 reps at around RPE 8, I like to set my last warmup at around 10% less than that (just like @wiigelec EDIT: & Andy Baker!), but I like to match the reps in my warmups to the reps in my working sets (maybe one or two less on the last warmup, particularly if I am working at more than RPE 8). Because my working set rep schemes change (between exercises, and over time), I find that keeping my warmups consistent with my working sets helps me to remember the right number of reps to do.

But again, it must mainly be personal preference since the weights are comparatively light.