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Too much cardio is unnecessary for losing weight while lifting

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  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 867Member Member Posts: 867Member Member
    FYI, I don't have the research references off-hand, but I believe this was from Andy Galpin -
    The mechanism for interference is that endurance training activities protein synthesis pathways in muscle mitochondria that down regulate the hypertrophic signalling pathways. My recollection is there isn't evidence for the pathway interference the other way, i.e., hypertrophy doesn't signal non-adaptation for endurance.

    The issue can be minimized by having at least a 4 hour window between doing leg resistance training and endurance training that produces adaptation. Even more preferable, keep them on separate days. If there's a constraint that they need to be done together such as the times one can be at the gym I believe the recommendation was do resistance training first so that cardio leave one tired.
  • CahgetsfitCahgetsfit Posts: 1,908Member Member Posts: 1,908Member Member
    raven56706 wrote: »
    puffbrat wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    Here's what I've read (from good sources):

    There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.

    Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.

    But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.

    Ok so in my case om990nsiebxt.jpeg here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.


    Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?

    I did but from I read here that you can either do what MFP offers or what IIFYM puts as a goal. Is there an advantage just going through MFPs calculations?

    I prefer to use TDEE over MFP becuase the whole "eating back calories" thing can get confusing, screw up your macros and will change every day depending on what you did.

    I prefer to know exactly how much I can eat each day, so I use TDEE method.
  • heybalesheybales Posts: 17,138Member Member Posts: 17,138Member Member
    raven56706 wrote: »
    Here's what I've read (from good sources):

    There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.

    Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.

    But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.

    Ok so in my case om990nsiebxt.jpeg here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.

    For the amount of workouts that you mentioned - what level did you pick, and how much exercise did that represent?

    Because you mentioned eating under goal to what shows.
    What if what shows is even below honest and you have a bigger deficit then reasonable?
  • neugebauer52neugebauer52 Posts: 1,016Member Member Posts: 1,016Member Member
    Excellent discussion point - I have learned the hard way that that little bit of exercise I was able to do with a starting weight of 170 kg (375 pounds) did not burn the calories of the huge meals, loaves of bread and what - have - you. Even now, 41 kg down (92 pounds) my (nearly) daily exercise doesn't burn much - maybe a small breakfast and a cappucino. For me weight loss is 95 % watching what I eat and 5 % "exercise". I just stick to the MFP calculations and always appreciate the great support of all those MFP members. Thank you.
  • raven56706raven56706 Posts: 903Member, Premium Member Posts: 903Member, Premium Member
    Cahgetsfit wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    puffbrat wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    Here's what I've read (from good sources):

    There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.

    Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.

    But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.

    Ok so in my case om990nsiebxt.jpeg here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.


    Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?

    I did but from I read here that you can either do what MFP offers or what IIFYM puts as a goal. Is there an advantage just going through MFPs calculations?

    I prefer to use TDEE over MFP becuase the whole "eating back calories" thing can get confusing, screw up your macros and will change every day depending on what you did.

    I prefer to know exactly how much I can eat each day, so I use TDEE method.


    same. thats how i like it as well. though i want to make sure i am eating enough sometimes
  • raven56706raven56706 Posts: 903Member, Premium Member Posts: 903Member, Premium Member
    heybales wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    Here's what I've read (from good sources):

    There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.

    Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.

    But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.

    Ok so in my case om990nsiebxt.jpeg here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.

    For the amount of workouts that you mentioned - what level did you pick, and how much exercise did that represent?

    Because you mentioned eating under goal to what shows.
    What if what shows is even below honest and you have a bigger deficit then reasonable?

    i put down 4 days of exercise because thats the number i can guarantee do. I aim for 6 days but sometimes life happens so i cant.



  • raven56706raven56706 Posts: 903Member, Premium Member Posts: 903Member, Premium Member
    ueifvl93e87u.jpg so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out.
  • heybalesheybales Posts: 17,138Member Member Posts: 17,138Member Member
    raven56706 wrote: »
    ueifvl93e87u.jpg so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out.

    That goal of exercise is not used in any math for eating goal.
    It is merely used on the Exercise Diary page for you to see what you have accomplished in the week compared to goal.

    The eating goal is totally based on your selected Activity Level setting (Sedentary?) which has NO exercise included.

    That's what I thought with a likely Sedentary goal already at 2330, that other site saying 2527 didn't sound high enough for all the workouts you mentioned.

    4 days is rather a rough level, shoot, even 4 hrs weekly is rather rough. 4 hrs of what, walking slowly, riding fast, circuit training, ect?
    And is your daily life outside exercise a desk jockey playing video games all night/weekend, or a mail carrier with big family and household responsibilities?
    I'll bet the TDEE calc didn't even touch on that, and that can make a bigger difference than workouts even.

    If you are going to enter some figures and try for a goal, might as well hit on a good estimate.
    Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
  • raven56706raven56706 Posts: 903Member, Premium Member Posts: 903Member, Premium Member
    heybales wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    ueifvl93e87u.jpg so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out.

    That goal of exercise is not used in any math for eating goal.
    It is merely used on the Exercise Diary page for you to see what you have accomplished in the week compared to goal.

    The eating goal is totally based on your selected Activity Level setting (Sedentary?) which has NO exercise included.

    That's what I thought with a likely Sedentary goal already at 2330, that other site saying 2527 didn't sound high enough for all the workouts you mentioned.

    4 days is rather a rough level, shoot, even 4 hrs weekly is rather rough. 4 hrs of what, walking slowly, riding fast, circuit training, ect?
    And is your daily life outside exercise a desk jockey playing video games all night/weekend, or a mail carrier with big family and household responsibilities?
    I'll bet the TDEE calc didn't even touch on that, and that can make a bigger difference than workouts even.

    If you are going to enter some figures and try for a goal, might as well hit on a good estimate.
    Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

    Here is the result from the google spreadsheet. I put realistic workout numbers .
    rx2hb85zc67n.jpeg

    Now your take on it. As for the cardio, I have it where I plan on doing a 45 minute, 30, and two 10 minute sessions when I workout at home.
  • heybalesheybales Posts: 17,138Member Member Posts: 17,138Member Member
    Well, that wasn't as much cardio as I imagined you meant - 95 min weekly.
    And some lifting too you mentioned - which you probably noted doesn't count for as much (especially when divided by 7), but it does count and is highly beneficial for as you commented - keeping what ya got.
    edited October 1
  • raven56706raven56706 Posts: 903Member, Premium Member Posts: 903Member, Premium Member
    heybales wrote: »
    Well, that wasn't as much cardio as I imagined you meant - 95 min weekly.
    And some lifting too you mentioned - which you probably noted doesn't count for as much (especially when divided by 7), but it does count and is highly beneficial for as you commented - keeping what ya got.

    well, at first people convinced me to do my cardio on different days. so i configured my workouts to 1)do my 2 cardio rides on my off days(45 Minute and 30 minute ride) and 2)end my weight workouts with 10 minute cool down rides. (which means it is two 10 minute rides)
  • sijomialsijomial Posts: 15,634Member Member Posts: 15,634Member Member
    I'm confused which method you are following!
    TDEE or MyFitnessPal?
    If TDEE then why are you playing with MFP goal setting?
    (You did get the the exercise goal on MFP does nothing to your daily target I hope?)

    And no 95mins per week of "cardio" wouldn't be regarded as "too much", neither would workout sessions of 75 mins for the vast majority of people with some semblance of fitness.
  • raven56706raven56706 Posts: 903Member, Premium Member Posts: 903Member, Premium Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    I'm confused which method you are following!
    TDEE or MyFitnessPal?
    If TDEE then why are you playing with MFP goal setting?
    (You did get the the exercise goal on MFP does nothing to your daily target I hope?)

    And no 95mins per week of "cardio" wouldn't be regarded as "too much", neither would workout sessions of 75 mins for the vast majority of people with some semblance of fitness.

    Not playing with MFP goal. i was showing how it was alittle different. Plus i calculated the number wrong because i am an idiot.

    I am going the TDEE route as (just like you said) is much easier to follow.

    That spreadsheet provided was super helpful.
  • mads_o86mads_o86 Posts: 45Member Member Posts: 45Member Member
    The first rule of exercise should be: "The best form of exercise is the one you're going to actually do".

    I run three times a week. That's my main motivation for everything else. That's what I'm going to base everything around because the rest is just the gravy. All my goals are running based (2020 goal: 1000 miles)

    I need to fit everything around this and not tire out.

    I need some strength and stability exercises for the legs or I'm going to get injured. Doing that three times on non-running days makes zero sense because my legs would never get any recovery. Doing leg strength before running (as general wisdom suggests) makes zero sense because it would tire me out for running. If I'm tired form suffers and there's a bigger chance of an injury. So leg workouts are after running.

    Time comes into play on the three non-running days where I do upper body workouts. I also want to do non-weight bearing cardio to aid running (mostly for recovery).

    Warming up on the eliptical or stationary bike for 25 minutes takes care of the added cardio and warm-ups at the same time. Then I do my 25 minute heavy eccentric-based workout and can get out of the gym and to work in less than an hour in morning workouts. If I were to warm up properly before lifting in the morning it would take me forever.

    So just do what makes sense with your goals and schedule. I'm pretty sure that cardio before lifting is a LOT better that only doing one of them...
    edited October 16
  • KrazyKrissyyKrazyKrissyy Posts: 320Member Member Posts: 320Member Member
    When they say too much exercise hurts results, they're referring to water retention, cravings, mental health, etc. I used to exercise a lot (both weight lifting and cardio). My progress was masked by extreme water retention. My thighs swelled. My face puffed up. I got bloated. Went to the doctors. Got tests run. My cortisol levels were OFF THE CHARTS.

    My weight loss is more steady and food cravings are minimal when I don't exercise at all except light walking. Some bodies are highly susceptible to stress, and yes exercise can be a stressor. I only walk for now.
    edited November 10
  • pitbullpuppypitbullpuppy Posts: 8Member Member Posts: 8Member Member
    heybales wrote: »
    raven56706 wrote: »
    ueifvl93e87u.jpg so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out.

    That goal of exercise is not used in any math for eating goal.
    It is merely used on the Exercise Diary page for you to see what you have accomplished in the week compared to goal.

    The eating goal is totally based on your selected Activity Level setting (Sedentary?) which has NO exercise included.

    That's what I thought with a likely Sedentary goal already at 2330, that other site saying 2527 didn't sound high enough for all the workouts you mentioned.

    4 days is rather a rough level, shoot, even 4 hrs weekly is rather rough. 4 hrs of what, walking slowly, riding fast, circuit training, ect?
    And is your daily life outside exercise a desk jockey playing video games all night/weekend, or a mail carrier with big family and household responsibilities?
    I'll bet the TDEE calc didn't even touch on that, and that can make a bigger difference than workouts even.

    If you are going to enter some figures and try for a goal, might as well hit on a good estimate.
    Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

    Just wanted to say thank you for the spread sheet. First calculator I've seen give me a relatively accurate calorie count.
  • froggy77064froggy77064 Posts: 49Member Member Posts: 49Member Member
    Back before life, work, and injuries shut me down. I did cardio everyday. Sometimes before weights and sometimes after. All depended on how hard I wanted to push myself each day. On leg days I only did about 30 minutes of light cardio max, to warm up my legs before lifting. Other days I would PUSH the Intensity of my cardio workout. I based my cardio on the body type I was going for and I wanted more of a sprinters body. Not that there’s anything wrong with a marathon runners body. In the 6 months I was able to maintain this workout regimen, I managed to lose 60lbs and was able to run 3 miles like it was nothing.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Posts: 42,619Member, Greeter Member Posts: 42,619Member, Greeter Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    Excessive cardio impacts recovery and competes for nutrition resources. 30 minutes is not excessive cardio. Intensity can play a small role. The more intense, the more of an issue. But, basically it's a non-issue as you are describing it. Now if you were lifting and training for a 1/2 marathon? Could be a problem.

    Aside from all that, why not do the 30 minutes on the Peloton on a non lifting day? That would really be optimal. On the lifting day, warm up, lift with focus and intensity. On the next day put in a good Peloton ride.
    This.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • mmapagsmmapags Posts: 8,282Member Member Posts: 8,282Member Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    Excessive cardio impacts recovery and competes for nutrition resources. 30 minutes is not excessive cardio. Intensity can play a small role. The more intense, the more of an issue. But, basically it's a non-issue as you are describing it. Now if you were lifting and training for a 1/2 marathon? Could be a problem.

    Aside from all that, why not do the 30 minutes on the Peloton on a non lifting day? That would really be optimal. On the lifting day, warm up, lift with focus and intensity. On the next day put in a good Peloton ride.
    This.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Lol! See. I was paying attention for all these years!
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