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Too much cardio is unnecessary for losing weight while lifting
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raven56706
Posts: 918 Member
I have seen this countless times. So just curious.
say your goal is the lose weight and you are on a calorie deficit.
If you are doing a 45 minute weight session, would another 30 minute Peloton ride be too much? Means now you are working out for 75 minutes.
why is it too much cardio hurts your results or is it not that serious?
say your goal is the lose weight and you are on a calorie deficit.
If you are doing a 45 minute weight session, would another 30 minute Peloton ride be too much? Means now you are working out for 75 minutes.
why is it too much cardio hurts your results or is it not that serious?
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Replies
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I think you have confused several pieces of advice into one jumble here.
All that is necessary for weight loss is to eat less than you burn. That can be done through diet alone without exercise of any kind.
Many people like the extra calorie burn from cardio. Many people like the strength and muscle preservation from strength training.
Starting a new exercise regime, cardio or strength or a combination, or increasing exercise will lead to water retention. The water retention will mask fat loss.
Overdoing exercise, again cardio or strength or in combination, has the potential to lead to injury.
Also, increasing exercise may lead to increased hunger that can set people back on their weight loss goals because they are eating in a smaller deficit than previously.27 -
I don't think too much cardio hurts your results unless you are doing cardio first and that is causing your lifting to be reduced.
Cardio and lifting do different things, but other than an overall need for energy, they shouldn't conflict.
Maybe biking on leg day would be a challenge, but as long as your weights are the same or increasing and your recovery time is the same, it isn't going to result in overtraining for most people.5 -
The last paper I read was from 2014 and it said there appeared to be a negative correlation between cardio and hypertrophy/strength. According to that paper they're not absolutely certain why cardio seems to add to muscle loss when you're in a caloric deficit. Some think it's a matter of recovery, when you're doing both cardio and resistance training, and you're in a calorie deficit, there's just too much for your body to handle and the muscles seem to pay the price. Maybe someone else has more up to date information. Here's the paper I read:
scholarworks.csun.edu/bitstream/handle/10211.3/198593/Helms-ER-Recommendation-2015.pdf?sequence=1
Personally, as a former (reformed?) runner, I like doing some cardio. So I do a couple of hours of HIIT a week and some vigorous walking for 30 minutes or so a couple of days a week. And right now I'm in a calorie deficit with some refeeds on the weekend (that's what I'm calling my weekend cheating when it comes to food, a refeed lol). I have been in a calorie deficit for a couple of months and my resistance training hasn't suffered much. Of course I started out about 23% bf so I had some extra fluffiness to fuel my body.8 -
raven56706 wrote: »I have seen this countless times. So just curious.
say your goal is the lose weight and you are on a calorie deficit.
If you are doing a 45 minute weight session, would another 30 minute Peloton ride be too much? Means now you are working out for 75 minutes.
why is it too much cardio hurts your results or is it not that serious?
I have never heard anything like this...4 -
This is dependent upon so many variables, but the basic theory is that glycogen decreases causing decreased performance and fatigue, yet experienced athletes can overcome this depending on endurance.
I review much of the data from the military physical readiness courses and it isn't so much that cardio or lifting hurts results, but what do you prioritize?
So if your goal is to develop muscle you should prioritize those activities - progressive lifting, hypertrophy, surplus, etc.
I don't believe 30 mins of aerobic activity is going to hurt results.7 -
well thats just the thing. I ask this question because i thought there was an actual debate about it.
one person i read on it says "Say you want to undertake a fat loss diet. At a point you are going to turn to cardio to help you create a caloric deficit along with calorie drops. If you are already doing 60 minutes of cardio 5x per week, you’re going to have to ADD to this. Now you’re doing 75minutes of cardio 6x per week or something similar. That’s a lot of cardio. Especially if you don’t really have the time to add 75 minutes of cardio on top of a 60-90 minute lifting session every day. "
so i ask for a person like say myself who's primary goal is to just lose weight and maintain muscle that i have(full body weight lifting 4 days a week), how much cardio is acceptable? i ask as i like riding my Peloton bike but just don't want it affecting my main goal.1 -
Excessive cardio impacts recovery and competes for nutrition resources. 30 minutes is not excessive cardio. Intensity can play a small role. The more intense, the more of an issue. But, basically it's a non-issue as you are describing it. Now if you were lifting and training for a 1/2 marathon? Could be a problem.
Aside from all that, why not do the 30 minutes on the Peloton on a non lifting day? That would really be optimal. On the lifting day, warm up, lift with focus and intensity. On the next day put in a good Peloton ride.17 -
raven56706 wrote: »I have seen this countless times. So just curious.
say your goal is the lose weight and you are on a calorie deficit.
If you are doing a 45 minute weight session, would another 30 minute Peloton ride be too much? Means now you are working out for 75 minutes.
why is it too much cardio hurts your results or is it not that serious?
Is that calorie deficit reasonable in the first place for amount to lose to healthy weight?
Is that same reasonable deficit kept in place when doing all the exercise which adds to your daily burn?
Meaning when you do more you eat more.
Or was the deficit just increased to unreasonable amount because you didn't take the exercise into account?
Unreasonable can easily mean poor recovery.
Is there recovery from one to allow the other, is there waiting for one to allow the recovery to the other.
Meaning you do a good lifting workout - which means recovery for rebuilding can take 24-48 hrs.
Idea is to rebuild stronger say, not just to spin your wheels lifting weight.
Do you do a serious intense or long cardio session within the repair/recovery period - diminishing what your body could have gotten from the lifting workout?
The mis-named Fat Burning HR zone used to be known as the Active Recovery HR zone - for a reason - gentle enough to aid recovery, get the blood flowing - provide benefit (of course not for hours and hours).
And it shouldn't knock the muscles out so badly you can't do another good lifting workout the next day - which would now be about 48 hrs away from prior lifting workout.
As you can imagine - you throw a bad big deficit in on some badly times workouts - you can get some negative results to mainly the lifting - cardio may not suffer at all.6 -
raven56706 wrote: »well thats just the thing. I ask this question because i thought there was an actual debate about it.
one person i read on it says "Say you want to undertake a fat loss diet. At a point you are going to turn to cardio to help you create a caloric deficit along with calorie drops. If you are already doing 60 minutes of cardio 5x per week, you’re going to have to ADD to this. Now you’re doing 75minutes of cardio 6x per week or something similar. That’s a lot of cardio. Especially if you don’t really have the time to add 75 minutes of cardio on top of a 60-90 minute lifting session every day. "
so i ask for a person like say myself who's primary goal is to just lose weight and maintain muscle that i have(full body weight lifting 4 days a week), how much cardio is acceptable? i ask as i like riding my Peloton bike but just don't want it affecting my main goal.
You don't need cardio to lose weight. It can make things easier, but it's not necessary. If I was already doing 60 minutes of cardio 5x per week and I needed to lose weight, I'd cut those calories from my diet, not add more cardio.
You're overthinking this. You do as much cardio as you like or don't like, provided for adequate recovery. When I was regularly doing cycling endurance events, I was lifting full body 3x per week and riding 100+ miles per week...it didn't keep me from losing weight.6 -
raven56706 wrote: »well thats just the thing. I ask this question because i thought there was an actual debate about it.
one person i read on it says "Say you want to undertake a fat loss diet. At a point you are going to turn to cardio to help you create a caloric deficit along with calorie drops. If you are already doing 60 minutes of cardio 5x per week, you’re going to have to ADD to this. Now you’re doing 75minutes of cardio 6x per week or something similar. That’s a lot of cardio. Especially if you don’t really have the time to add 75 minutes of cardio on top of a 60-90 minute lifting session every day. "
so i ask for a person like say myself who's primary goal is to just lose weight and maintain muscle that i have(full body weight lifting 4 days a week), how much cardio is acceptable? i ask as i like riding my Peloton bike but just don't want it affecting my main goal.
No cardio or other exercise in necessary to lose weight. Just a calorie deficit. Do whatever cardio you choose. Do your weight training program and eat at an appropriate and reasonable deficit. You will lose weight.
And maybe stop reading these silly articles?8 -
Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.6 -
NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case
here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
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By the way, I thought there would be more debate about this but I guess not haha 😜1
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So you are eating how much per day? That is a TDEE model that includes exercise.0
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raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?3 -
The last paper I read was from 2014 and it said there appeared to be a negative correlation between cardio and hypertrophy/strength. According to that paper they're not absolutely certain why cardio seems to add to muscle loss when you're in a caloric deficit. Some think it's a matter of recovery, when you're doing both cardio and resistance training, and you're in a calorie deficit, there's just too much for your body to handle and the muscles seem to pay the price. Maybe someone else has more up to date information. Here's the paper I read:
scholarworks.csun.edu/bitstream/handle/10211.3/198593/Helms-ER-Recommendation-2015.pdf?sequence=1
Personally, as a former (reformed?) runner, I like doing some cardio. So I do a couple of hours of HIIT a week and some vigorous walking for 30 minutes or so a couple of days a week. And right now I'm in a calorie deficit with some refeeds on the weekend (that's what I'm calling my weekend cheating when it comes to food, a refeed lol). I have been in a calorie deficit for a couple of months and my resistance training hasn't suffered much. Of course I started out about 23% bf so I had some extra fluffiness to fuel my body.
It’s important to point out that “interferes” does not mean “prevents”. It is quite possible to do high volumes of cardio and still increase strength and mass. You just can’t maximize your gainz.
For the average person who will never come close to maximizing their genetic potential, it makes almost no difference.
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raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?
I did but from I read here that you can either do what MFP offers or what IIFYM puts as a goal. Is there an advantage just going through MFPs calculations?0 -
raven56706 wrote: »raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?
I did but from I read here that you can either do what MFP offers or what IIFYM puts as a goal. Is there an advantage just going through MFPs calculations?
Not necessarily. Just understand which method you are using and follow it accordingly. The amount of cardio you are doing is fine. How much weight have you lost in the last 60 to 90 days.
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FYI, I don't have the research references off-hand, but I believe this was from Andy Galpin -
The mechanism for interference is that endurance training activities protein synthesis pathways in muscle mitochondria that down regulate the hypertrophic signalling pathways. My recollection is there isn't evidence for the pathway interference the other way, i.e., hypertrophy doesn't signal non-adaptation for endurance.
The issue can be minimized by having at least a 4 hour window between doing leg resistance training and endurance training that produces adaptation. Even more preferable, keep them on separate days. If there's a constraint that they need to be done together such as the times one can be at the gym I believe the recommendation was do resistance training first so that cardio leave one tired.3 -
raven56706 wrote: »well thats just the thing. I ask this question because i thought there was an actual debate about it.
one person i read on it says "Say you want to undertake a fat loss diet. At a point you are going to turn to cardio to help you create a caloric deficit along with calorie drops. If you are already doing 60 minutes of cardio 5x per week, you’re going to have to ADD to this. Now you’re doing 75minutes of cardio 6x per week or something similar. That’s a lot of cardio. Especially if you don’t really have the time to add 75 minutes of cardio on top of a 60-90 minute lifting session every day. "
That's not an argument about the effectiveness of cardio. It's an argument about time management.7 -
raven56706 wrote: »raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?
I did but from I read here that you can either do what MFP offers or what IIFYM puts as a goal. Is there an advantage just going through MFPs calculations?
I prefer to use TDEE over MFP becuase the whole "eating back calories" thing can get confusing, screw up your macros and will change every day depending on what you did.
I prefer to know exactly how much I can eat each day, so I use TDEE method.4 -
raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
For the amount of workouts that you mentioned - what level did you pick, and how much exercise did that represent?
Because you mentioned eating under goal to what shows.
What if what shows is even below honest and you have a bigger deficit then reasonable?
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Excellent discussion point - I have learned the hard way that that little bit of exercise I was able to do with a starting weight of 170 kg (375 pounds) did not burn the calories of the huge meals, loaves of bread and what - have - you. Even now, 41 kg down (92 pounds) my (nearly) daily exercise doesn't burn much - maybe a small breakfast and a cappucino. For me weight loss is 95 % watching what I eat and 5 % "exercise". I just stick to the MFP calculations and always appreciate the great support of all those MFP members. Thank you.2
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Cahgetsfit wrote: »raven56706 wrote: »raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
Is there a reason you have decided not to just input your stats and goal into this app, and let it do the math for you based on your setup and using your diary every day?
I did but from I read here that you can either do what MFP offers or what IIFYM puts as a goal. Is there an advantage just going through MFPs calculations?
I prefer to use TDEE over MFP becuase the whole "eating back calories" thing can get confusing, screw up your macros and will change every day depending on what you did.
I prefer to know exactly how much I can eat each day, so I use TDEE method.
same. thats how i like it as well. though i want to make sure i am eating enough sometimes
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raven56706 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Here's what I've read (from good sources):
There is an "interference" effect between running and lifting. It isn't huge, and we don't know exactly why it happens. The best guess is the concentric muscle contractions in running. This is specific to running, but a lot of bros generalize to all cardio, probably because lifting culture isn't so hot on cardio.
Also, you're losing calories on your peleton, you'll have to eat them back if muscle gain is your goal.
But that brings us to the point. You're probably not going to build a ton of muscle in a calorie deficit anyway. Your goal at this point should be to maintain what you have (if you can build some that's a bonus) until you get to goal weight, and then recomp. If you look at it that way, you can forget all the bro-science.
Ok so in my case here are my calorie goals. I shoot for weight loss but try to stay just alittle under. Now when I workout like I describe to you, do you try to eat more than that or just eat that. Again, the goal isn’t to build muscle but to keep what I have and just burn the fat.
For the amount of workouts that you mentioned - what level did you pick, and how much exercise did that represent?
Because you mentioned eating under goal to what shows.
What if what shows is even below honest and you have a bigger deficit then reasonable?
i put down 4 days of exercise because thats the number i can guarantee do. I aim for 6 days but sometimes life happens so i cant.
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so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out. 0 -
raven56706 wrote: » so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out.
That goal of exercise is not used in any math for eating goal.
It is merely used on the Exercise Diary page for you to see what you have accomplished in the week compared to goal.
The eating goal is totally based on your selected Activity Level setting (Sedentary?) which has NO exercise included.
That's what I thought with a likely Sedentary goal already at 2330, that other site saying 2527 didn't sound high enough for all the workouts you mentioned.
4 days is rather a rough level, shoot, even 4 hrs weekly is rather rough. 4 hrs of what, walking slowly, riding fast, circuit training, ect?
And is your daily life outside exercise a desk jockey playing video games all night/weekend, or a mail carrier with big family and household responsibilities?
I'll bet the TDEE calc didn't even touch on that, and that can make a bigger difference than workouts even.
If you are going to enter some figures and try for a goal, might as well hit on a good estimate.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing4 -
raven56706 wrote: » so i did the MFP calculations with 4 days of working out and this is what i get. this is with a current weight of 198 and 4 days of working out.
That goal of exercise is not used in any math for eating goal.
It is merely used on the Exercise Diary page for you to see what you have accomplished in the week compared to goal.
The eating goal is totally based on your selected Activity Level setting (Sedentary?) which has NO exercise included.
That's what I thought with a likely Sedentary goal already at 2330, that other site saying 2527 didn't sound high enough for all the workouts you mentioned.
4 days is rather a rough level, shoot, even 4 hrs weekly is rather rough. 4 hrs of what, walking slowly, riding fast, circuit training, ect?
And is your daily life outside exercise a desk jockey playing video games all night/weekend, or a mail carrier with big family and household responsibilities?
I'll bet the TDEE calc didn't even touch on that, and that can make a bigger difference than workouts even.
If you are going to enter some figures and try for a goal, might as well hit on a good estimate.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Here is the result from the google spreadsheet. I put realistic workout numbers .
Now your take on it. As for the cardio, I have it where I plan on doing a 45 minute, 30, and two 10 minute sessions when I workout at home.0 -
Well, that wasn't as much cardio as I imagined you meant - 95 min weekly.
And some lifting too you mentioned - which you probably noted doesn't count for as much (especially when divided by 7), but it does count and is highly beneficial for as you commented - keeping what ya got.0
This discussion has been closed.
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