Getting started with indoor rowing?

NorthCascades

It's been two months since my injury, my resting heart rate is up 20 bpm. Doctor says a lot of that is because healing is hard work, but I want to be able to do challenging and fun things when my ankles finally let me. I've been lifting 3x per week, and for the first time in my life, I used an indoor rowing machine today.

I would love to benefit from some good advice. I have the same google as everyone else, but there's a lot of misinformation on the internet, and it's hard to know whether you're getting good or bad info when you have no context.

We have "water rowers" at my gym, they use fans in circular water tanks, and tell you your power, it seems like a 3 second rolling average? I don't know how good the measurement is.

I can only use one leg 🤕, I need to keep pressure off the other ankle; this doesn't seem to be much hindrance. I found the machine a little awkward though, and wish there was more resistance. I did 20 minutes, mostly hovering around 110 to 120 w, which kept me in HZ2. I'd like to be able able to get some anaerobic in too, I'm hoping once I learn a little about form that might be possible.

So, any advice from the veterans would be very welcome, same with pointers to good reading material or videos.

Thanks! 🙂

sijomial

Although you are using a water rower the Concept2 website is a wealth of good information including technique videos.

Calling two experts for their input....

@AnnPT77
@MikePfirrman

sgt1372

Don't recall much discussion of water rowers here, mainly Concept2 rowers.

The mechanics of rowing are the same but the feel & operation of the devices obviously differ. For example, no need to adjust resistance on a C2. If you want to work harder, you just pull harder.

I vaguely recall that there is a way to increase resistance on a water rower (which I read about when I was trying to decide between buying 1 vs a C2) but don't remember exactly how that is done now. I aasume such info is available on Google for the specific type of water rower that you are using.

However, if you are rowing only w/one leg, my guess is that you already are not rowing as efficiently as you could w/both legs and, so, I don't understand why you'd want to increase the resistance and put even greater pressure on the single leg you're using because you'd just even up rowing end up rowing even less efficiently if you did that.

Most of the work in rowing is done w/the legs and until you can use both, I suggest leaving well enough alone before messing w/the resistance level on your rower.

Azdak

The only way to add more resistance to the water tower is to fill it with more water, which is not really practical. Otherwise, you just have to pull harder.

But I agree with the above that I’m not sure single leg rowing is the best approach.

Machka9

With the Concept 2, and with 2 good legs, they don't recommend increasing the resistance very high. I think the general recommendation is about 6 of the scale of 10 so that you can get form right.

NorthCascades

My lower back is sore this morning, which is rare for me. What are the chances this is related?

MikePfirrman

NorthCascades wrote: »

My lower back is sore this morning, which is rare for me. What are the chances this is related?

Very good. The lower back and hip hinge will work muscles you're not accustomed to working (though I know from your job and mountain trails that you're in excellent shape).

I've been thinking about your question. The rower is actually one of the best machines for adaptive (disability) use. However, with that said, it's almost easier (or at least I would think) without an injured ankle in the way. I know some adaptive rowers -- war vets -- that are doing incredible times. Way better than I can!

But not wanting to put any ankle pressure on your injury, this is about the best video I could come up with. Your rear will slide to one side. I'd keep the DF low (drag factor) and also keep the rows shorter or in intervals. Get up, move around and don't sit too long at a time. If you get cockeyed on the rower, your rear will chafe. Happens to me all the time. I have one bad knee and I scoot to one side inadvertently all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhiDAxyzIr4

The rower really works ankle flexibility when you're ready with your ankle down the road.

AnnPT77

Good advice from Mike. I also share the general skepticism that this is a great plan, unless you truly have ambitions as an adaptive rower, single leg category. That said:

In terms of the back issue, yes, rowing can cause problems, for one of two reasons (1) muscles not used to it (so normal muscle soreness, which IME sometimes feels a little weird in the smaller muscles vs. the more common equivalent in the big ones), or (2) technique problems.

If it's sore muscles from reasonable technique, I'd expect the sore zone to be upper glutes and just above the pelvic bones in back. Higher than that (and possibly even if low), more likely technique.

Technique, specifically: One of the really common causes of back problems is doing the body swing part of the stroke ineffectively. Your spine does not bend/articulate to create power on the swing (or bend on the recovery either, for that matter).

At the catch, you want to be sitting with a naturally straight spine (the exact appearance of this differs by person; the point is no slumping or bending forward to reach for the catch). The hips are behind your body, upper body is swung forward from the hip joint, with the upper body in "your straight" position, looking out toward the horizon line, chest open (one of my coaches said to pretend there's a light on your chest that needs to point downriver to illuminate where you've been, another called it "show your beautiful necklace"). The woman in Mike's video doesn't describe this, but is doing it quite well (when she's not looking down to point at legs or feet or something).

I'm not going to describe the whole drive, but once you've done the leg push to nearly flat legs, the body swing comes from the hip joint (using primarily the big muscles), not from curling/uncurling your spine in any way. It's an imperfect analogy, but if you've ever seen one of those little plastic bird toys that perches on a glass, swings down and dunks its bill in the water, then swings back, it's that kind of inverted-pendulum-looking kind of motion, feeling like motion from the hip joint, with a firm core and straight back.

There are other things that can cause back problems, but that's probably the most common for people starting out. Use your core to stay upright, don't slump or try to coil/uncoil from the spine. Swing from the hips.

On the water rower, Azdak is right, the equivalent of the C2 damper (which is not resistance!) is indeed about the amount of water in the tank. I've only rowed 3-4 times on a water rower, for a few hundred meters at a time, but my impression is that within a reasonable fill range, the water rower tank fill, like the C2 damper, is not what determines the difficulty. It's having the technique and strength to get the water/flywheel moving. (I'm assuming strength is not the problem, given who I'm typing at). The faster the flywheel/water is moving, the harder the workout. I've never tried to get to Z4-5 one-legged, but it's super easy to do two-legged. So, try to work on your technique. If you know a rowing coach, ask for help/critique. The Concept 2 videos are also a good resource, even for the Water Rower.

Be careful. :flowerforyou:

lgfrie

Happy owner of a WaterRower here. It has gotten an astounding amount of usage in its 6 year in residence.



Yes, the more water in the tank, the more resistance for rowing. However, it's quite impractical to change the water level, so it's more of a "one and done" thing. You fill it up once, and then revisit it in a few years (not months; years). As others have noted above, technique and strength is what gets the flywheel moving.

It is not difficult at all to pull a muscle on the WaterRower - especially back, but for me, also hips. It's really important to learn and utilize good form, even if it means going slower and easier for a long while until you really get used to it. Like, say, a month of practice, with shooting some video of yourself on your phone so you can see your form and compare it to what it should be. You'll probably be surprised how inept you look at first LOL And then one day it'll all come together and your form will be solid.

Doing it one-legged does not sound like a great idea, tbh.

The Concept2 videos are an excellent resource.

MikePfirrman

I thought about what I said and was going to come back and be more specific. Ann already covered it! Thanks Ann! Yeah, back pain can be from using muscles you're not used to or rounding the spine (bad type). Think of a row like a deadlift. I find it helpful, just when my foot starts to raise on the footpad to do another stroke (drive). Her spine is straight (not rounded) on the video, which is how you want it. If you have any familiarity with deadlift form, for the same reasons you don't want to round a back on a deadlift, which creates "load" in the thoracic area of the spine, you don't want to start the leg drive with the spine rounded. It feels weird to say you want to sit up straight most of the row, but you do, which engages the abs and forces you to drive more from the hips/glutes. It feels entirely unnatural at first, but the more you get used to it, the more natural it feels.

aokoye

Everything was already said by the time I got off the water, let alone by the time I looked at this thread I would underscore that while rowing with one leg is totally doable given how common adaptive rowing is both indoor and out, I agree with Ann in that I don't know that it's especially practical in your situation. What does your trajectory look like in terms how when ankle will be stronger/more mobile/allowing you to get back to sport?

My other suggestion would be to take advantage of where you live. You live in an area with a lot of rowing clubs (thanks UW) including ones that have adaptive programs and probably teach people how to row on rowing machines around this time of year (though a quick look shows that there are still LTR programs on the water in your area of the NW). Don't be afraid to email and ask if you can get some instruction in how to row on an erg (rowing machine). Given the acute nature of your injury, I don't think you'd be considered an adaptive athlete, but I suspect it's worth working with someone who has experience in working with adaptive athletes.

sgt1372

NorthCascades wrote: »

My lower back is sore this morning, which is rare for me. What are the chances this is related?

You should not get lower back soreness, if you are rowing w/proper form.

Lower back soreness would suggest that you are improperly pulling more w/your lower back than pushing off w/your legs, which makes sense if you are only using 1 leg while rowing

sgt1372

Machka9 wrote: »

With the Concept 2, and with 2 good legs, they don't recommend increasing the resistance very high. I think the general recommendation is about 6 of the scale of 10 so that you can get form right.

If you are referring to the damper lever on the side of the fan, many people mistakenly believe that it it is used to adjust the resistance of the pull.

The damper is used to simulate the movement of a boat on the water NOT the resistance of the pull. The higher the damper setting the the greater the drag (the less it will "glide") and the more quickly you will have to pull again to keep the "boat" (fan) moving and vice versa. A higher setting would be for a hypothetically heavier and bigger boat and a lower setting for a lighter, smaller one.

Generally, a setting between 5-6 is recommended to simulated the movement of a single scull boat. I row 5km daily at a moderate pace and use a damper setting of 5.5.

NorthCascades

Thanks, everybody, for fantastic advice and information!

It sounds like my form was terrible. I guess that's to be expected, my first time with no idea what I'm doing. I was pushing off with my foot at the same time I was pulling with my arms, all as one motion. No wonder it felt awkward! @AnnPT77 your description was excellent, maybe better than a video. I can picture the sippy bird and know what you mean. I didn't realize the flywheel spinning would make it harder, I niavely assumed the opposite.

I'm going to take @aokoye's advice and email a few clubs to see if I can get a session with somebody familiar with adaptive. I agree that doesn't fit me long term, and the several people who've said this maybe isn't the best idea are probably right. It's bothering me a lot not to be getting exercise for my heart and lungs, I feel like I'm atrophying, and I feel like it's not healthy.

@MikePfirrman thank you for an excellent video!! And to @sgt1372 got explaining the damper, it makes sense now. 🙂

It didn't even occur to me to look at the Concept 2 site, I'm glad to have homework.

NorthCascades

aokoye wrote: »

What does your trajectory look like in terms how when ankle will be stronger/more mobile/allowing you to get back to sport?

My foot and ankle doctor told me I should be healed well enough for it not to limit me in about 10 weeks, about 3 weeks ago. I think I set myself back almost a week taking a friend hiking to see fall color in a tree she'd never seen before. Lesson learned. 🤕

curlsintherack

check out the dark horse rowing channel on youtube tons and tons of good form videos where I learned.

The resistance on the c2 machines is meant to keep you in a drag factor which is the resistance of water as I understand. as the flywheel fins become dirty the the drag factor goes down because of the less air resistance. you raise the power level from 4 to 5 check the drag factor in the settings again and when you have reached the 124ish range your set. Basically it buys you time so that your not constantly cleaning your machine because even in a clean environment they get dirty.

MikePfirrman

BTW, climbers make incredible rowers. Not to generalize, but I watched one guy from the UK progress so rapidly -- he's a pretty good climber. He's now one of the top Indoor Lightweight rowers in the UK within two or three years.

Like Curlsintherack said, Dark Horse Rowing on Youtube has some great instructional info as well. If you look at the Concept2 forums, look at the Pete Plan thread. I, ironically, started that thread. The Pete Plan is a rowing plan by Pete Marston, a really strong UK Indoor rower. He's created a lot of rowing training plans (like Hal Higdon's in running). Anyway, the Pete Plan has a beginner plan, so that thread became, over a few years, a beginner thread with tons of beginner questions, including my own. Many really experienced guys chip in and answer anything you could imagine on Indoor Rowing questions. It's a great resource for beginners on the Forums.

aokoye

NorthCascades wrote: »

aokoye wrote: »

What does your trajectory look like in terms how when ankle will be stronger/more mobile/allowing you to get back to sport?

My foot and ankle doctor told me I should be healed well enough for it not to limit me in about 10 weeks, about 3 weeks ago. I think I set myself back almost a week taking a friend hiking to see fall color in a tree she'd never seen before. Lesson learned. 🤕

10 weeks total with 3 more weeks to go isn't the worst thing in the world, though I know you hate it. That said, if you are wanting to do any erging, even after these three weeks are up, I think getting instruction would probably be best for you given this injury. Also start out light, which is to say, slow. You don't need to set your recovery back more than you already have.

NorthCascades

I must have said that backwards, it's about 7 to 8 weeks to go. Still not terrible in the long run, and while it's great weather this week, we're going to get a lot of rain for the rest of my healing, it could be much worse.

This started in August, I spent a month of weekends sitting in parking lots for hiking trails reading books while my friends hiked.

Machka9

NorthCascades wrote: »

My lower back is sore this morning, which is rare for me. What are the chances this is related?

What's your posture like on the rowing machine? I find I have to focus on sitting up rather than slouching.

aokoye

NorthCascades wrote: »

I must have said that backwards, it's about 7 to 8 weeks to go. Still not terrible in the long run, and while it's great weather this week, we're going to get a lot of rain for the rest of my healing, it could be much worse.

This started in August, I spent a month of weekends sitting in parking lots for hiking trails reading books while my friends hiked.

Oh I just misread it. I read "three weeks ago" as "three weeks to go". Seven more weeks is harder than 3, but it'll go by quickly when all is said and done. I'm pretty sure you've read about my history of knee surgeries before so I won't regale you again. That said, I will say that one thing that helped get me through them was reading about other athletes who had dealt with long recoveries from injuries. This was not about whether or not I had it better or worse, rather it was a "they managed to do this and come out the other side, how can I do the same".