Getting rid of skinny fat syndrome

jhawkins16

I’m a 5’8 148 pound distance runner, and I’ve recently started weight training and eating more protein to overcome being “skinny fat”. Anyone else have any issues with this? Even though I peaked at 68 miles a week for marathon training, my body still has a high level of body fat compared to muscle. Any advice would be appreciated!

andersonandrew112

Aim for 1-1.3g protein per lb of body weight per day. Do compound weight lifting exercises like squats, deadlift, bench press, overhead press. Operate in a 500 calorie surplus to gain muscle weight, then operate in a 500 calorie deficit to trim off a little fat. If you track your macros you've got an advantage on 90% of the people at the gym, you just have to modify your approach a little. You can put on some muscle and still be an endurance athlete.

traumanurse870

andersonandrew112 wrote: »

Aim for 1-1.3g protein per lb of body weight per day. Do compound weight lifting exercises like squats, deadlift, bench press, overhead press. Operate in a 500 calorie surplus to gain muscle weight, then operate in a 500 calorie deficit to trim off a little fat. If you track your macros you've got an advantage on 90% of the people at the gym, you just have to modify your approach a little. You can put on some muscle and still be an endurance athlete.

How long should bulking and cutting periods be?

MikePTY

What are your goals? You don't need to bulk or add a surplus unless you are trying to gain weight. If you are trying to maintain, you can recomp by eating around maintenance and continuing to lift.

Also, 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass is sufficient.

PAV8888

I would consider the following:

--starting point (always been an athlete, started heavier took up running and lost weight to current range, have been maintaining weight and running for years but weight was gained and performance fallen during past few years). Is there appreciable fat available to be lost or are are you starting with low fat availability? how much strength training has been done before? --what is the starting point?
--my goals (desire to perform well re: long distance running, desire to avoid injury, desire to strengthen, desire to change my looks? What are your goals and are you willing to lose on some to gain on the others? How are you willing to balance them?
--in some of the situations above... what has been your dieting experience? Have you lost and gained weight often? Ever? how often in past few years etc.
--do you have a progressive strength training program dialed in and know how to perform the moves, or have arranged for training? Do I have the time slots allocated and am pretty sure I will be following through? Beyond that, is this a program optimized for muscle growth (which would be supported by higher eating goals) or is it mostly a general strength development program which will also result in some muscle growth but not, necessarily, be optimized?

Based on above options could go with an at maintenance eating recomp if long distance running performance is paramount, a small surplus of ~250 or so Cal a day for long term slight surplus support, or a larger surplus of ~500 Cal a day if everything is dialed in and optimal.

giancarlov1191

I initially lost about 40lbs with low calories and long distance running. I was the epitome of skinny fat because I did not pay attention to building or retaining muscle. You'll likely have to do a bulk now, followed by a cut that prioritizes muscle retention.

PAV8888

A small request

Skinny fat has a meaning that it not random.

It means someone who is over-fat (as in someone who would be considered overweight or obese by fat percentage) while at a normal or low weight. So BMI of 18.5 to 25 while fat % is such that would be more commonly found in a person with BMI >25

Skinny fat does not mean "I don't have muscles that are as large and as defined as I would like them to be". It also does not mean "I don't have the body shape and aesthetics that I would like".

Why does it matter?

Because if you ARE actually skinny fat, this means that you have fat available to lose .

It means you CAN EFFECTIVELY recomp, especially if new to strength training, because you have a built in source of energy that can power your new lean mass creation. And not only that, but a bulk would probably not be optimal in terms of how the excess energy you will take in during your bulk will get partitioned between lean and fat tissue.

But if you are under-muscled and lean that's another story. And in this position if you want to build muscle fast(er) you probably need to take in additional energy.

However if you are an established competitive runner and your weight increases this could have implications for your performance.

So the answer is not the same for everyone and bulk and cut cycles may or may not be the best idea...

mickeyj297

I had the same problem with too much running and no strength training.
Squat, Deadlifts, Farmers walk and yolk will pack on the muscle and build bone density. To prevent injury It is very important to learn how properly. A few seminars with a qualified trainer will get you started right on proper form and diet.

jhawkins16

I’ll keep you guys updated on the next 4 weeks. I’ve heard people have success with IF and a low carbohydrate/high protein diet. Apparently the science is behind on IF as I’ve seen it make me look more defined without changing my caloric intake. I lifted 3 times this week so considering it’s my first week back into it that’s not bad. Looks like only 40 miles this week in terms of mileage. I’m following Matt Fitzgerald’s 80/20 level 3 heart rate 5k plan currently.

cupcakesandproteinshakes

jhawkins16 wrote: »

I’ll keep you guys updated on the next 4 weeks. I’ve heard people have success with IF and a low carbohydrate/high protein diet. Apparently the science is behind on IF as I’ve seen it make me look more defined without changing my caloric intake. I lifted 3 times this week so considering it’s my first week back into it that’s not bad. Looks like only 40 miles this week in terms of mileage. I’m following Matt Fitzgerald’s 80/20 level 3 heart rate 5k plan currently.

Gentle advice: 4 weeks is no time to measure progress re muscle gain. It’s months to years to build any appreciable mass I’m afraid.

giancarlov1191

^ Having a defined objective (and patience) is so important. If you are inexperienced with weight lifting, you can benefit greatly from a dedicated bulking phase. I would cut the cardio down make lifting the primary objective.

GaryRuns

Are you going to continue running at that level? It's going to be very difficult to build muscle if you're running 40+ miles per week. The problem is recovery. Trying to do both resistance training and running, at that level, is going to be very taxing on your body's ability to recover. If you're young, have your nutrition totally dialed in, have great genetics, get a ton of sleep and aren't under any stress then maybe you can do both, but at best it's sub-optimal and at worst one or both of your running and lifting will suffer and won't progress.

If you decide to cut back on the running and focus on resistance training for a while, then make sure you get sufficient protein, generally somewhere in the range of 0.8-1 gram per pound of body weight per day, and that you choose a good progressive lifting program and follow it consistently. Here's a thread with a nice selection of lifting programs to choose from:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

jhawkins16

I’ll try to lift on days I have lower mileage. Today just called for 35 minutes in zone 2 so I did a mini back and bicep workout afterwards since my muscles can not handle a lot of sets yet.

jhawkins16

It’s just frustrating since I’m at a normal weight and I burn 500 plus calories per day, yet I look like I do not train at all and just look slender.

jhawkins16

And I can run a 5:30 mile (not the best I know but I didn’t run track in high school and started from nothing so it’s good for me, yet some dude that eats junk food and lifts everyday is shredded but can’t run a sub 25 minute 5k. It’s demotivating.

jhawkins16

Anyway, I probably need to give some background. I think this all started when I



lost 60 pounds within a 2 month time span a couple years age (I weighed 220 pounds) by cutting my intake down to 1,200 cal a day. Ever since then I think the constant going in and out of being in a deficit can just completely destroyed my body composition. Got really lean at 10.6% body fat according to in-body and 142 pounds in July of this year, and marathon training has caused me to get up to 150 pounds on average in the mornings due to train gain. I’ve definitely developed a better attitude towards food as I used to treat it as a reward. I now view it as fuel for running and IF has helped since I just have periods where I don’t have to worry about eating for the majority of the day. I’ve just never been shredded before and I’d like to feel comfortable taking my shift off at the beach again or when going on long runs.

Here’s my training log the last week.

tcunbeliever

The average person can only metabolize about 1% body fat in any given week.

60 lbs in 2 months for someone 220 lbs...that's a lot of not-fat that was burned...40+ lbs of muscle or other lean mass.

For what it's worth, I have a great deal of difficulty building muscle even when I have big strength gains in lifting. I found Leangains to be the best for me in terms of changing body composition...lost 5% body fat in 12 weeks...it's calorie and carb cycling based on lifting days...so you lift 3 days a week and you eat more on those 3 days...then you eat less on the other 4 days...I like this calculator here if you want to check it out...I found it to be easy and sustainable as a method for me to actually grow muscle size, but to each his own.

https://x-gains.com/MacroCalculator

PAV8888

I notice a lot of calories on the table.
Are you losing weight? Gaining? How long have you maintained your weight loss? How much does your weight vary?
What fat % do you think is appropriate or shredded for a guy?
Is your goal abs and you're currently not seeing them? Are you seeing them but not as defined as you would like?
Is your goal upper body development? Lower? Run faster? Run marathons? All of the above? Have you run any marathons before?

In general your weight seems on the lower end of the normal weight range.
The amount of calories you're leaving on the table seems large and your intake (if accurate) given your activity level seems a little bit on the low side. This would compromise recovery etc.

I am also wondering if after your weight loss you've ever eaten at actual maintenance for any length of time or if you've been training hard and at a deficit throughout. How do you measure your food intake?

jhawkins16

You make a good point. I’m an amateur distance runner (5k 19:38, mile 5:30, half marathon 1:31.08, marathon 4:10 (hit the wall at mile 18 running at 3:30 pace) so I burn around 100 miles or more per mile. My Vo2 max is 62 ml/kg and I’m 23 so that is considered excellent for my age. But I just get annoyed because my body doesn’t look like I’m as fit as I am. I think some of it is unrealistic expectations on my part. I normally average around 2,000 to 2,500 calories per day. Some days I run 6-7 miles (650-750 calories burned) others lower (400 calories burned for a short 4 mile run). Most of my miles are in zone 2 for heart rate and power based on the 80/20 principle of distance running. I’ve been giving a lot of thought to the MAF way of running (aerobic training only fit extended periods for an emphasis on fat burning along with a ketogenic WOE to become a fat adapted runner).

mmapags

jhawkins16 wrote: »

Anyway, I probably need to give some background. I think this all started when I



lost 60 pounds within a 2 month time span a couple years age (I weighed 220 pounds) by cutting my intake down to 1,200 cal a day. Ever since then I think the constant going in and out of being in a deficit can just completely destroyed my body composition. Got really lean at 10.6% body fat according to in-body and 142 pounds in July of this year, and marathon training has caused me to get up to 150 pounds on average in the mornings due to train gain. I’ve definitely developed a better attitude towards food as I used to treat it as a reward. I now view it as fuel for running and IF has helped since I just have periods where I don’t have to worry about eating for the majority of the day. I’ve just never been shredded before and I’d like to feel comfortable taking my shift off at the beach again or when going on long runs.

Here’s my training log the last week.

I think you want to take a good hard look at the state of your thinking. Above in another post, you compare yourself to someone else who you say eats junk food and lifts weights and runs a sub 25 minute 5k. Honestly, you would have no idea what that person eats for an overall diet because you aren't following them around everyday. You are comparing yourself to someone without really knowing what the truly do and for how long they've done it.

Your OP was about being skinny fat but in the info in your post above, you are very lean and, without a picture, I would guess you have a distance runners body. Distance runners are light and lean because that is what that sport favors for performance. Yet, you want a better physique. You activities and your goals are at odds with each other.

If you want muscle mass and a better physique, then you may need to cut back on your running and training volume and focus on eating and training to accomplish that objective. You know that guy with the physique you compared yourself to? He is running 5ks in 25 minutes, not marathons. Decide what is most important to you or what compromises you are willing to live with.

When you lost weight so rapidly, you did not do yourself any favors. You sacrificed lots of muscle mass by severely under eating. In your evaluations of yourself, your self acknowledged thinking about food, you calling yourself skinny fat and your comparison to others, you are displaying what looks to me like lots of disordered thinking.

Take some time, sort somethings out as to what is most important to you. Possibly get some counseling to help with your relationship with food and body image. Then put together a plan and stick with it. Changing your physique, if that's what you decide to do, is going to take some time. That's one of the sad facts of losing weight too fast. Losing muscle mass by taking too aggressive an approach, then trying to rebuild it is always the longer harder way to do it rather than preserving as much as you can by losing at a more realistic rate. And remember, comparison is the thief of joy.