Partial dirty bulk results

ssanj10

I realise when trying to gain muscle I need to be on a calorie surplus

My stats are Male 42, 5'9, 80kg so according to fitness pal I should be consuming 2600 calories.

My question is if a certain amount of these calories say 500 are from sources like KFC Burger king etc would these calories help in building muscle. I appreciate that junk food would relate to a certain amount of fat gain but would it also help me muscle? I have an ectomorph type build by the way.

jseams1234

When I bulk I need to eat about 4K calories a day. Near the end of that bulk I'm up to around 5K.

I think about half of those calories typically come from sources like KFC. Meet your macro goals. Make sure your nutritional needs are met (Micro) and fill in the gaps with whatever you can to meet your caloric needs. Personally, I can't imagine trying to hit my numbers eating what is typically considered "clean".

btw - I'm 49, 6'1 and currently weight about 215 (97.5kg) and will be bulking to about 240 (and all that fluffy glory) this go-round.

also - you don't need an extreme surplus. Typically when I see "dirty bulk" I'm not thinking kale salad vs. KFC I'm thinking 500+ surplus vs. 200-300.

ssanj10

Thanks for the reply, have you seen results by doing so?

jseams1234

ssanj10 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, have you seen results by doing so?

Yes - very good results, but it's taken several years and multiple bulk/cut cycles. How lean or muscular are you? I'm asking because you are already in the "overweight" area of BMI with your height/weight combination. If you aren't already fairly muscular and lean you might want to be bit more careful about bulking. Typically, most people want to get to a reasonably low body fat percentage before they start as it helps with partitioning. Also, cutting is much harder than the bulk for a lot of people so getting extremely fluffy/fat during the bulk might not be advisable if you aren't able to easily diet/cut that fat off after you are done.,, and if you aren't careful with that cut you can (people too often do) lose a considerable amount of your progress.

ssanj10

Thanks mate yes BMI wise I am overweight. I have a 40inch belly which I know is high but the rest of me is quite skinny, so I fit in the skinny fat category.

In the past when I have cut (as i can't loose weight on only my belly) I have shrunk all over. So my shoulders have gone more rounded and look ill.

I'm hoping to build a certain amount of visible muscle and then cut down and go in cycles like you mentioned, but at this stage I just need to gain some muscle so I can cut later.
Cut wise in the future I think I'll be OK with losing the extra fat providing I've put on some muscle in the first place.

I'm thinking of a 3 month or so bulk to begin with. Then a cut

Hope that makes sense

sijomial

I realise when trying to gain muscle I need to be on a calorie surplus.
Not actually true - you need a calorie surplus to gain weight, muscle gains come from your training and supported by an adequate diet and that diet doesn't have to be a surplus.
A surplus might provide optimal/faster speed of growth though.

My stats are Male 42, 5'9, 80kg so according to fitness pal I should be consuming 2600 calories.
That goal would be only for a day when you do no exercise.
Quite heavy for someone your height "on a dirty bulk" but..... Do you realise dirty bulk isn't describing your food choices it means a large to very large calorie surplus? (Normally only done these days by people taking PEDs or underweight). If you are targeting 2600 plus exercise calories I doubt you are actually dirty bulking, that would normally be more like a 1,000 cals surplus which clearly you aren't doing. Have you been training for a while and have a decent amount of muscle already? Stating what your goals and priorities are would help. If you are purely interested in muscle and strength gain you may well pursue a different path to someone interested in aesthetics as well as muscle gain.

My question is if a certain amount of these calories say 500 are from sources like KFC Burger king etc would these calories help in building muscle.
Beef and chicken don't get stripped of their nutrition and calories just because it's coming from a fast food outlet.

I appreciate that junk food would relate to a certain amount of fat gain but would it also help me muscle?
A calorie surplus leads to fat gain - not junk food on its own. Think about the terrible diets endured by concentration camp prisoners - true junk food diets but massive fat loss.

I have an ectomorph type build by the way
Somatotypes are nonsense outside of vaguely describing your build - it doesn't change the way you process foods. Posting a picture helps a lot more.

ssanj10

Pictures posted

steveko89

Here's a good in-depth read on the math for gaining muscle.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calories-muscle-gain.html/

Depending on your training experience a smaller deficit may be more beneficial in the long run so you're not cutting for a long time on the back end.

sijomial

ssanj10 wrote: »

Pictures posted

Are you sure bulking / weight gain is the right option for you?

If muscle gain is your sole aim and you aren't concerned with gaining fat along with some muscle then carry on.
But if physique/looks/muscle definition are also concerns then weight maintenance or a cut to reduce bodyfat might be more appropriate.

ssanj10

Sijomial I want to gain some muscle, is that possible on weight maintainence?

My workout plan atm is

Chest And shoulder day

Db
Incline db
Decline
Pecdec around 10 reps each set totalling 20sets


Lateral raises
Front raises
Bent over raises around 10 reps of 3 sets each


Back day

Lat pulldowns
Upright rows
Barbell shrugs
Cable rows

Around 10reps 20 sets for total

Legs and arms day

Biceps

hammer curls
Concentration curls
21s


Triceps

Extensions
Dip machine
Around 10,3 for each

Squats
Leg raises
Stiff legged deadlifts 10,3

not too much on my legs as weak kneees

steveko89

sijomial wrote: »

ssanj10 wrote: »

Pictures posted

Are you sure bulking / weight gain is the right option for you?

If muscle gain is your sole aim and you aren't concerned with gaining fat along with some muscle then carry on.
But if physique/looks/muscle definition are also concerns then weight maintenance or a cut to reduce bodyfat might be more appropriate.

I have to agree with the above, which I think was all posted between when I opened this discussion in a new tab and finished my initial response.

OP, you've also made no mention of what sort of lifting program you're following. Executing any solid program while eating at a slight deficit should allow you to at least retain the muscle you do have while losing some fat; eventually getting you to a place where a bulk makes more sense.

Chieflrg

I wouldn't recommend to begin a bulk if you have a 40inch waist measurement. Not only do you have red flags for health such as disease and premature death, it would be a poor starting point to add muscle on a ROI standpoint.

As far of quality of foods. When you do decide bulk. I would concern myself with a range of calories that added just under .25kg per week on average.

Food from fast food restaurants doesn't equal fat gain. Too many calories over your TDEE would be the culprit.

After getting the right amount of calories, tightening up out your macro management if you haven't already would be good..

In general for a male your age, I would suggest almost 1g of protein for every .5kg of body weight if your carnivores. This with a intelligently written resistance program should yield good results.

sijomial

Yes it's not only possible to gain muscle at maintenance - it's entirely normal and expected for anyone who isn't very highly trained and close to their maximum potential (a small percentage of the gym population let alone the general population).

As I said above that rate of muscle gain may not be as fast as when in a surplus but you aren't adding fat which you would (probably) want to cut later.

A list of exercises makes me concerned you aren't following a well designed program suitable for your lifting experience. Your training is the first thing to optimise as it's your training not your diet that initiates and drives the process of muscle growth.

To be flippant..... Train like a chump and eat like a champ won't get you anywhere.

ssanj10

Cheers sijmoial what programme should I follow then?

Also how often should one be able to increase the weight they lift?
For example on chest day is it normal to increase weight on say db press but then when you do incline you're not able to lift as much,or should you expect to see an increase on all exercises ?

sijomial

ssanj10 wrote: »

Cheers sijmoial what programme should I follow then?

Also how often should one be able to increase the weight they lift?
For example on chest day is it normal to increase weight on say db press but then when you do incline you're not able to lift as much,or should you expect to see an increase on all exercises ?

From the sticky threads pinned to the top of this forum....
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

The answers to your other questions are hugely variable. Even two people with same age, stats, lifting experience and training will respond and progress differently.