New, Old, and Confused. Warning: May get to be long post
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Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
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I was thinking about what you need out of the program and might have some ideas. First of all, you can set your main page to show the nutrients you want instead of the default by changing your settings. For example, as a diabetic I have the sugar column replaced by fiber so I can easily subtract and get net carbs, and I’m also anemic so I have a column for iron.
Most database entries will not have the complete nutritional information you need, but you could create your own entries by going to the USDA database and getting the information and hand entering it, including information such as potassium and so on. This would be a major pain in the short term, but if you tend to rotate between a few very similar meals it might be worth it in the long term. You could also add notes to your diary which you could use to tally up foods high in potassium, etc.1 -
^^^^ This is what I needed much more than caloric stuff, although I admit I got worried when I saw that my caloric intake over the years has been low, with my weight staying steady, which is why I even I brought it up in the first place!! I did adjust my sodium and potassium levels in my profile to levels more suitable for a renal diet according to the Kidney Foundation, and I’ll play around with the rest!
As an example of what a day is like, we had to go up to Billings today. Since I just got my food scale yesterday, I apologize for not thinking to take it with me and plop it on the table when we stopped at Cracker Barrel for lunch. <insert grin here> I ordered: 1 catfish fillet, fried, cole slaw, and 3 hush puppies, and drank my usual water - which I never seem to remember to log, doggone it! In a to go box in my fridge right now is part the fish, some cole slaw, and one hush puppy that I couldn’t finish at the restaurant. That will be my lunch tomorrow. I took the calorie counts off the menu while we waited for our food, and they matched pretty closely what the search box turned up. But I actually didn’t take in that many since I didn’t eat it all, and I won’t tomorrow at lunch, either. THIS is what I’m up against.
So let’s just pretend that I have never, ever mentioned calories. I’m not trying to lose weight anyway.1 -
Okay, I’ve had MFP for a week. Let me start off by saying that I consider myself an intelligent, articulate woman. I just turned 69 years old, I have circulatory and heart issues, and a failed hip replacement, but nothing I haven’t managed thus far. I am moderately overweight, weighing 151 pounds last week when I started MFP and am down to 148.6 pounds now. I haven’t been without my Fitbit for 3 years. I do not now, nor have I ever had, diabetes or high blood pressure. My heart problems are more inherited - I have lived the longest of any of my family. Most were gone by their early 40s. I fight inherited high cholesterol constantly. Whew! Now that that’s out of the way....
I did not get MFP to lose weight. I stay pretty steady, between 151 and 155, although a few months ago I was up to 168. It wouldn’t hurt to shed a few, but I’m not obsessing over it. I got this app because I just learned that I probably have Stage 4 kidney disease, and that scares me more than the heart stents and such. My GFR is 29 and falling, while my creatinine is rising. I just learned this on December 9, so I haven’t fully come to grips with it yet. My GP scheduled me with a nephrologist and I’ll see him on the 31st of this month. I held my sister’s hand when she left this earth after 4 years on dialysis following emergency surgery for a ruptured aortic aneurism. Kidney failure is terrifying me. I know I’m going to be put on a renal diet, but renal diets and cardio diets conflict in many ways. So I decided to get a head start on this major lifestyle change by logging my food, watching fats, cholesterol, proteins, potassium and sodium carefully. Phosphorus, the big kidney risk, isn’t listed for most foods. And I’ll meet with a dietician to see what he/she recommends in terms of following the cardio diet or the renal diet. With my sister it was a balancing act that we never did master.
MFP wants me to consume 1200 calories a day. I can’t. So I changed my calorie goal to 1000 and I can’t hit that, either. Despite my weight numbers, I’m not an eater. Never have been. I don’t like sweets. I can eat maybe half a hamburger (no fries) and I’m full. Today a 4” kids’ turkey sandwich at Subway was too much. My GP and gastroenterologist are aware of this. I have annual endoscopeies and there have been no abnormal findings. I don’t snack. Logging food is easy for me because sometimes there’s breakfast, (but usually just hot tea and a slice of wheat toast) then one thing for lunch, then a light dinner. That’s it! How am I ever going to hit 1000 calories for my health (and I know that’s not set in stone) when I average 790 to 850 calories? I’m not weak....I have an 8 year old Autistic granddaughter with Spina Bifida and I am not only her loving gramma, I’m her day care provider. I have to carry her a lot,band I can toss her wheelchair into the back of a van like I was born to it.
So do I need more calories if I’m still strong and active despite how few I take in? When I’m full, I’m full. I can’t force more in. I tried just grazing on quality foods throughout the day as my gastro recommended, but even half an apple at a time is perfectly satisfying. I’ve done the shake things, but it takes me all day to finish one bottle of Ensure. I’m not asking for medical advice here - my doctors have that covered. I just want to know about this calorie thing. I tried setting my daily goal to 800. MFP didn’t like that. I hit 1000 calories a few days ago, but I was forcing it and miserable. Can MFP even work for me with the combination of renal/cardio foods, or is the apps’ focus so strongly on weight loss that I will be one of the few that simply can’t benefit from it? Help? (I’ll worry about my absolute confusion over adding recipes another time. 🥴)
Welcome 72 and several health issues still trying to get this done, you can do this feel free to add me if you wish. Good luck1 -
Now that you have a food scale you may find that you are actually eating more than you think. Here's my very recent experience: I always weigh things like meat and cheese, but for lots of other foods I use measuring cups. I happen to love mixed nuts and recently discovered that I've been eating nearly twice as much as I've logged because I was measuring them instead of weighing them. This is a big deal to me because as a 60 year old female, my baseline for maintenance is only 1500 calories (1200 to lose). And of course, nuts are very calorie dense. No wonder I've seen a 10 pound creep over the last couple of years. How many other foods have I been under-logging (is that a word?)? Yikes!!2
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I wouldn't start any radical changes until you see the kidney doc. Particularly supplements. The doc needs to find out what the cause of your ckd is before treating. I'm cat 3 caused by an autoimmune disease - so they treat that. I've never needed a ckd diet so I can't help with that. Good Luck, I know how you feel dialysis is scary to me too.1
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Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?0 -
Have you ever looked at the weight on the package and then actually weighed the contents in the package. Almost never accurate.... That throws off calorie counts a lot and people don’t realize it.0
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I just made myself a veggie burger with swiss and mushrooms. The bun itself was over by .16 of a portion. The cheese was over .10 a portion. Over time all those little points add up. I've weighed protein bars and found them to almost be a half bar over what they should be. Perfect example... Lenny and Larry's protein cookies that just had to offer a settlement to all it's consumers for being way over or under in every package (mostly over). This is exactly why I got a scale. Because I kept the same weight for months even though my calories were so so low.
blooie1:
The phosphorus you need to try and maintain can be looked up here : https://fdc.nal.usda.gov
I'm on inhalers that leech potassium also. I also have a lung condition that can lead to edema and watch my sodium intake closely. I know that you're possibly going to be double looking but I thought that might help.1 -
fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.2 -
fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
Another reason that barcode scanning can be inaccurate is that recipes change, but barcodes remain the same. If the manufacturer has increased or decreased the size, the older entry in MFP will now be incorrect.
This has been especially true recently in the US because the labels are being updated. Serving sizes are changing plus manufacturers are getting more accurate nutrition facts.
For example, my favorite quick meals are frozen items made by Sweet Earth. Every time I get one with a new label something is changed on it besides the important addition of potassium info. The calories might be new, or the protein, or fat, or something else, or several different things.2 -
fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Can on scale, zero scale. Spray. Can back on scale. Negative reading = amount of oil used. Log as that type of oil
None of which is required for Blooie, IMO, as calories aren't her core issue, and it's usually not much oil.2 -
fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
I feel like if you’re using cooking spray as suggested it’s not really enough calories to have a big impact - but some people read the label which says 4 calories or whatever and think, “This stuff has no calories! I can use this instead of salad dressing!” and proceed to spray half a can of extra virgin olive oil all over their salad and log it as 4 calories.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
I feel like if you’re using cooking spray as suggested it’s not really enough calories to have a big impact - but some people read the label which says 4 calories or whatever and think, “This stuff has no calories! I can use this instead of salad dressing!” and proceed to spray half a can of extra virgin olive oil all over their salad and log it as 4 calories.
Yeah, I agree. I mostly don't use cooking spray anyway but when I do I tend to be nitpicky and log it, even though I don't log, say, black coffee or a little mustard. But I admit that's not logical.
I do think it's not a bad habit to get into since I've seen lots of people here say they assumed it had no cals (even though I'm not sure how that's possible) and were using an insane amount and logging nothing. Logging should make someone realize they need to watch the sprays or account for the longer ones.1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
I feel like if you’re using cooking spray as suggested it’s not really enough calories to have a big impact - but some people read the label which says 4 calories or whatever and think, “This stuff has no calories! I can use this instead of salad dressing!” and proceed to spray half a can of extra virgin olive oil all over their salad and log it as 4 calories.
Yeah, I agree. I mostly don't use cooking spray anyway but when I do I tend to be nitpicky and log it, even though I don't log, say, black coffee or a little mustard. But I admit that's not logical.
I do think it's not a bad habit to get into since I've seen lots of people here say they assumed it had no cals (even though I'm not sure how that's possible) and were using an insane amount and logging nothing. Logging should make someone realize they need to watch the sprays or account for the longer ones.
Some are labeled 0 calories (but for a 1/3 second spray). I think that's where the delusion begins. I agree that common sense ought to override, though.
Because I'm lazy, I sometimes use spray on veg for roasting, where I also think I get better coverage with less oil; and almost always when making something savory with filo leaves, because it's so much faster than brushing butter. Either case, that's a material number of oil calories.2 -
Is the amount of calories you are currently consuming the same you've been consuming for the last several years when you've maintained at 151-155? Or are you currently eating significantly less because of some of your health challenges? I only ask because if it's not a new way of eating, then you maintained that weight for a reason -- it was enough to sustain you and you didn't lose drastic amounts of weight. Which just means you're eating a tad more than you think. No big deal!0
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I am absolutely blown away by how willing everyone is to help! Let me answer a couple of really good questions I’ve read.
I reiterate - aside from being shocked at how much lower my average calorie intake is than recommended, and realizing that there may well be things I’m not adding because they’re “invisible calories”, my food intake is exactly as I have described it. It’s hard to even put a lunch or dinner down in MFP because hubby and I usually eat our main meal between 2-3 pm. We’ve done that for about 15 years, since his first bout with acute pancreatitis because eating a full meal a few hours before bed makes him uncomfortable and then he can’t sleep. So technically when everyone else is sitting down to roast beef and the trimmings at 6:00, by then I’m eating a piece of fruit or a snack sized packet of cheese, not a meal. The exception is if we’ve eaten out during that usual time frame, in which case the to-go box with the uneaten part of my “lunch” is sometimes dinner. So does that count as lunch or dinner? After all, it’s one whole meal split into two separate meals. Count half twice? I can’t remember the last time I ate a full portion of anything....probably 10-15 years or so. I don’t graze throughout the day and evening, I don’t use heavy creams, I spray a mist of olive oil on foods if I’m going to roast them, I don’t like sweets (except my one weekly 16 oz Pepsi) and this is the way I’ve been for years and years. Even the weekly Pepsi is odd.....I’ll open one in the morning, pour it over ice in my Yeti, and then sip on it all day long. At bedtime it sits by my nightstand and I sometimes finish it while I read or crochet. But more often the last watered down dregs get dumped in the morning.
I don’t take any supplements, except the prescription potassium my cardiologist has me on to help with my heartbeat. My potassium before that was 2.8....it’s now 3.4 and stable. I get routine blood tests to monitor.
I am absolutely not starting any real kidney diet until I see the nephrologist on the 31. He/she is going to need my accurate GFR and other blood levels, without any artificial changes from a month of panicked altering of my lifestyle, diet, and medications so we can have a real baseline with results that my GP saw back in December. He can then modify things as he thinks he needs to. I don’t have the medical degree, he does. 😉 The reason I started with MFP was simply 1) to get in the habit of logging my intake, as my sister had to do, and 2) to be able to sit with the dietician I’ll be seeing, not trying to answer questions about my current diet blindly or trying to reconstruct it. The dietician can see what kinds of foods I prefer, how much (or little) of them I eat, and show me what to do, with a solid food intake record to assist. She can help me adjust where needed, increasing or decreasing my nutrients. I look at my entries in the app as my “observation” period, not a change. Changes are going to be up to my doctor, the dietician, and what they SEE in those logs.
My weight has been pretty steady since 2002, when I had my hip replacement. I ballooned up to 168 between August 2018 and August 2019, when hubby was Grand Master of Masons in Wyoming. We were away from home 201 days that year, on the “rubber chicken and Alka Seltzer” circuit. It was banquet after luncheon after banquet after luncheon - a way of eating that I am not used to. Then there were the trips themselves.,.fast foods and restaurants, and a lot of windshield time, sitting on my hiney! Not used to those things, either. His year was up in August 2019 and aside from a few events here and there now, we are mostly home. So I’m back to my “normal” weight and feeling good - 150 to 155 pounds is overweight, I know, but I kinda have bigger things to stress over. If I lose some, great. If I don’t, that’s okay too.
I’ve had the same light cardio excercises since 2016. I’ve added a few sit-ups and such to help tighten the loose pooch i have from losing what I have lost, (old skin isn’t very elastic) and I work hard to keep a pretty clean house, not just for us but for our granddaughter. So no big changes there.
I think I covered all of the questions. I don’t want anyone to think I’m being difficult or argumentative. I can only “count” what I see and if that’s not as accurate as a lot of fitness folks like to be, well, I’m sorry to disappoint. As I said, we all have our stories....some of us have more complex lives than others but no story is unimportant. I am just so stunned by the outpouring of assistance here! Like it or not, you’re part of my story now!5 -
So because some of these things are relatively half important.
If I read this correctly between September and December 2019, in other words in approximately 4 months of eating like you're doing now, you reduced your average weight by approximately 13 to 18 pounds.
And it was during the tail end of that time period that you found high protein in your urine in your labs, and this was tested a second time and confirmed since you got an appointment to a nephrologist?
One question I would want to ask given that it doesn't sound to me like you were eating a lot of protein or calories based in your food intake description is whether any of them think the sequence of events may have influenced your labs2 -
CKD was actually spotted during my angiogram on a October 3. The cardiologist wrote that he did not do the left part of the heart because my kidneys weren’t working, which was the first I’d heard that. Actual report reads: “Left Ventriculogram deferred due to renal insufficiency”. GFR was 34 at that time. It’s now down to 29. I have not had a urine test run yet - the nephrologist wants to do a complete kidney work up with that, an unltrasound of the kidneys, and more blood work from his one central location. But I’ve had 3 blood tests run since that result in October and the GFR is going down while the creatinine is rising. We expected some changes in the kidneys, since my sister died of renal failure after 4 years on dialysis and I’ve been self-cathing for about 8 years now to prevent retained urine from traveling back up the tubes into the kidneys and damaging them.
The weight loss started in August, as soon as we were done traveling and we were going back to our normal life and eating habits. I managed to get to my pre-Grand Master’s year weight pretty easily, without doing much to make it happen. (Anyody want to buy a size 16 formal?)
There is no real sequence we can point to. Aside from that one year of heavy banquet meals and lots of fast food eating, I’ve always been this kind of super light eater. And I love food.....I love cooking it, and eating it. The labs have been hanging steadily for 4 years. Like most of us I had labs drawn, met with the doctor, and accepted what he said. GFR is supposed to be greater than 60 for a woman my age and for years it was above that. When I pull up all the labs for a comparison, I could see where in 2016 GFR was at 58, then 2017 it was 46, then 40 in 2o18 , then in 2019, 34 at the time of the angio, and 29 two months later. So I demanded answers. Nobody ever mentioned this concern. Not one doctor said, “We need to watch this”. It took me printing these out and dropping them on his desk to get the 2 December blood tests,mand it was at that point where he said, “Now I worried”.
I get plenty of protein. We have our own chickens so my eggs are always super fresh. We hunt, so there’s always fresh meat in the freezer. We try to get a protein, a starch, and veggies at every lunch/dinner, whatever you want to call it. I Love cheese and that’s my favorite snack. Traveling I always had yogurt cups in the cooler. But with bad kidneys proteins are one of the things you want to minimize. I guess I have 6 days until I get definitive answers. I’m scared. I don’t have my sister Linda’s courage. But I want to be well prepared as well. That’s where MFP and all of you come in.5 -
Sounds like you've got things as well in hand as anyone could. Definitely not advocating high protein with kidney problems. My question was whether it appeared during the tail end of weight loss; but clearly it was in October, so early stages of your return to normal weight, and clearly your doctor and you have reasons to believe that this is not an issue that just started. So all I can do is wish, most sincerely, that the diagnosis ends up being better and easier to control than you fear.1
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