New, Old, and Confused. Warning: May get to be long post
Replies
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fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
Another reason that barcode scanning can be inaccurate is that recipes change, but barcodes remain the same. If the manufacturer has increased or decreased the size, the older entry in MFP will now be incorrect.
This has been especially true recently in the US because the labels are being updated. Serving sizes are changing plus manufacturers are getting more accurate nutrition facts.
For example, my favorite quick meals are frozen items made by Sweet Earth. Every time I get one with a new label something is changed on it besides the important addition of potassium info. The calories might be new, or the protein, or fat, or something else, or several different things.2 -
fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Can on scale, zero scale. Spray. Can back on scale. Negative reading = amount of oil used. Log as that type of oil
None of which is required for Blooie, IMO, as calories aren't her core issue, and it's usually not much oil.2 -
fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
I feel like if you’re using cooking spray as suggested it’s not really enough calories to have a big impact - but some people read the label which says 4 calories or whatever and think, “This stuff has no calories! I can use this instead of salad dressing!” and proceed to spray half a can of extra virgin olive oil all over their salad and log it as 4 calories.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
I feel like if you’re using cooking spray as suggested it’s not really enough calories to have a big impact - but some people read the label which says 4 calories or whatever and think, “This stuff has no calories! I can use this instead of salad dressing!” and proceed to spray half a can of extra virgin olive oil all over their salad and log it as 4 calories.
Yeah, I agree. I mostly don't use cooking spray anyway but when I do I tend to be nitpicky and log it, even though I don't log, say, black coffee or a little mustard. But I admit that's not logical.
I do think it's not a bad habit to get into since I've seen lots of people here say they assumed it had no cals (even though I'm not sure how that's possible) and were using an insane amount and logging nothing. Logging should make someone realize they need to watch the sprays or account for the longer ones.1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »fdlewenstein wrote: »Scanning bar codes cannot be trusted. Neither can eyeballed portions, half pieces of fruit, or measuring cups used for solid foods (like cheerios).
To log accurately you really need a food scale. Measure all solid food in grams and find a suitable MFP database entry to match it. All entries you pick need to be personally verified by you the first time you use them. This means comparing the item to the label or to the new USDA site.
Some commonly missed things are beverages or things added to beverages, condiments, oil, cooking spray, and supplements. Supplements may seem ridiculous but they can have calories and they can add up.
Why is scanning bar codes not reliable? If I have a protein bar or a package of something I usually scan the barcode. The package is the portion. I also scan the barcode for other items, like bread or pita. I do try to weigh items as much as possible. How can you log cooking spray?
Because it's not information from the manufacturer, but like other entries inputted by some other MFP user. Check with your package information to make sure it matches up.
Some would recommend weighing single serving foods, but I never did and lost fine (admittedly I ate relatively few of them).
Cooking spray has cals, you can just estimate something like 0.1 of a tbsp if not a super long spray (that's 10 cal or so rather than the likely around 5 or less if you actually spray as short as recommended, but I suspect most don't). If you really coat the pan or veg, I'd estimate higher.
I feel like if you’re using cooking spray as suggested it’s not really enough calories to have a big impact - but some people read the label which says 4 calories or whatever and think, “This stuff has no calories! I can use this instead of salad dressing!” and proceed to spray half a can of extra virgin olive oil all over their salad and log it as 4 calories.
Yeah, I agree. I mostly don't use cooking spray anyway but when I do I tend to be nitpicky and log it, even though I don't log, say, black coffee or a little mustard. But I admit that's not logical.
I do think it's not a bad habit to get into since I've seen lots of people here say they assumed it had no cals (even though I'm not sure how that's possible) and were using an insane amount and logging nothing. Logging should make someone realize they need to watch the sprays or account for the longer ones.
Some are labeled 0 calories (but for a 1/3 second spray). I think that's where the delusion begins. I agree that common sense ought to override, though.
Because I'm lazy, I sometimes use spray on veg for roasting, where I also think I get better coverage with less oil; and almost always when making something savory with filo leaves, because it's so much faster than brushing butter. Either case, that's a material number of oil calories.2 -
Is the amount of calories you are currently consuming the same you've been consuming for the last several years when you've maintained at 151-155? Or are you currently eating significantly less because of some of your health challenges? I only ask because if it's not a new way of eating, then you maintained that weight for a reason -- it was enough to sustain you and you didn't lose drastic amounts of weight. Which just means you're eating a tad more than you think. No big deal!0
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I am absolutely blown away by how willing everyone is to help! Let me answer a couple of really good questions I’ve read.
I reiterate - aside from being shocked at how much lower my average calorie intake is than recommended, and realizing that there may well be things I’m not adding because they’re “invisible calories”, my food intake is exactly as I have described it. It’s hard to even put a lunch or dinner down in MFP because hubby and I usually eat our main meal between 2-3 pm. We’ve done that for about 15 years, since his first bout with acute pancreatitis because eating a full meal a few hours before bed makes him uncomfortable and then he can’t sleep. So technically when everyone else is sitting down to roast beef and the trimmings at 6:00, by then I’m eating a piece of fruit or a snack sized packet of cheese, not a meal. The exception is if we’ve eaten out during that usual time frame, in which case the to-go box with the uneaten part of my “lunch” is sometimes dinner. So does that count as lunch or dinner? After all, it’s one whole meal split into two separate meals. Count half twice? I can’t remember the last time I ate a full portion of anything....probably 10-15 years or so. I don’t graze throughout the day and evening, I don’t use heavy creams, I spray a mist of olive oil on foods if I’m going to roast them, I don’t like sweets (except my one weekly 16 oz Pepsi) and this is the way I’ve been for years and years. Even the weekly Pepsi is odd.....I’ll open one in the morning, pour it over ice in my Yeti, and then sip on it all day long. At bedtime it sits by my nightstand and I sometimes finish it while I read or crochet. But more often the last watered down dregs get dumped in the morning.
I don’t take any supplements, except the prescription potassium my cardiologist has me on to help with my heartbeat. My potassium before that was 2.8....it’s now 3.4 and stable. I get routine blood tests to monitor.
I am absolutely not starting any real kidney diet until I see the nephrologist on the 31. He/she is going to need my accurate GFR and other blood levels, without any artificial changes from a month of panicked altering of my lifestyle, diet, and medications so we can have a real baseline with results that my GP saw back in December. He can then modify things as he thinks he needs to. I don’t have the medical degree, he does. 😉 The reason I started with MFP was simply 1) to get in the habit of logging my intake, as my sister had to do, and 2) to be able to sit with the dietician I’ll be seeing, not trying to answer questions about my current diet blindly or trying to reconstruct it. The dietician can see what kinds of foods I prefer, how much (or little) of them I eat, and show me what to do, with a solid food intake record to assist. She can help me adjust where needed, increasing or decreasing my nutrients. I look at my entries in the app as my “observation” period, not a change. Changes are going to be up to my doctor, the dietician, and what they SEE in those logs.
My weight has been pretty steady since 2002, when I had my hip replacement. I ballooned up to 168 between August 2018 and August 2019, when hubby was Grand Master of Masons in Wyoming. We were away from home 201 days that year, on the “rubber chicken and Alka Seltzer” circuit. It was banquet after luncheon after banquet after luncheon - a way of eating that I am not used to. Then there were the trips themselves.,.fast foods and restaurants, and a lot of windshield time, sitting on my hiney! Not used to those things, either. His year was up in August 2019 and aside from a few events here and there now, we are mostly home. So I’m back to my “normal” weight and feeling good - 150 to 155 pounds is overweight, I know, but I kinda have bigger things to stress over. If I lose some, great. If I don’t, that’s okay too.
I’ve had the same light cardio excercises since 2016. I’ve added a few sit-ups and such to help tighten the loose pooch i have from losing what I have lost, (old skin isn’t very elastic) and I work hard to keep a pretty clean house, not just for us but for our granddaughter. So no big changes there.
I think I covered all of the questions. I don’t want anyone to think I’m being difficult or argumentative. I can only “count” what I see and if that’s not as accurate as a lot of fitness folks like to be, well, I’m sorry to disappoint. As I said, we all have our stories....some of us have more complex lives than others but no story is unimportant. I am just so stunned by the outpouring of assistance here! Like it or not, you’re part of my story now!5 -
So because some of these things are relatively half important.
If I read this correctly between September and December 2019, in other words in approximately 4 months of eating like you're doing now, you reduced your average weight by approximately 13 to 18 pounds.
And it was during the tail end of that time period that you found high protein in your urine in your labs, and this was tested a second time and confirmed since you got an appointment to a nephrologist?
One question I would want to ask given that it doesn't sound to me like you were eating a lot of protein or calories based in your food intake description is whether any of them think the sequence of events may have influenced your labs2 -
CKD was actually spotted during my angiogram on a October 3. The cardiologist wrote that he did not do the left part of the heart because my kidneys weren’t working, which was the first I’d heard that. Actual report reads: “Left Ventriculogram deferred due to renal insufficiency”. GFR was 34 at that time. It’s now down to 29. I have not had a urine test run yet - the nephrologist wants to do a complete kidney work up with that, an unltrasound of the kidneys, and more blood work from his one central location. But I’ve had 3 blood tests run since that result in October and the GFR is going down while the creatinine is rising. We expected some changes in the kidneys, since my sister died of renal failure after 4 years on dialysis and I’ve been self-cathing for about 8 years now to prevent retained urine from traveling back up the tubes into the kidneys and damaging them.
The weight loss started in August, as soon as we were done traveling and we were going back to our normal life and eating habits. I managed to get to my pre-Grand Master’s year weight pretty easily, without doing much to make it happen. (Anyody want to buy a size 16 formal?)
There is no real sequence we can point to. Aside from that one year of heavy banquet meals and lots of fast food eating, I’ve always been this kind of super light eater. And I love food.....I love cooking it, and eating it. The labs have been hanging steadily for 4 years. Like most of us I had labs drawn, met with the doctor, and accepted what he said. GFR is supposed to be greater than 60 for a woman my age and for years it was above that. When I pull up all the labs for a comparison, I could see where in 2016 GFR was at 58, then 2017 it was 46, then 40 in 2o18 , then in 2019, 34 at the time of the angio, and 29 two months later. So I demanded answers. Nobody ever mentioned this concern. Not one doctor said, “We need to watch this”. It took me printing these out and dropping them on his desk to get the 2 December blood tests,mand it was at that point where he said, “Now I worried”.
I get plenty of protein. We have our own chickens so my eggs are always super fresh. We hunt, so there’s always fresh meat in the freezer. We try to get a protein, a starch, and veggies at every lunch/dinner, whatever you want to call it. I Love cheese and that’s my favorite snack. Traveling I always had yogurt cups in the cooler. But with bad kidneys proteins are one of the things you want to minimize. I guess I have 6 days until I get definitive answers. I’m scared. I don’t have my sister Linda’s courage. But I want to be well prepared as well. That’s where MFP and all of you come in.5 -
Sounds like you've got things as well in hand as anyone could. Definitely not advocating high protein with kidney problems. My question was whether it appeared during the tail end of weight loss; but clearly it was in October, so early stages of your return to normal weight, and clearly your doctor and you have reasons to believe that this is not an issue that just started. So all I can do is wish, most sincerely, that the diagnosis ends up being better and easier to control than you fear.1
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I'm sure you do have Linda's courage, apples do not fall far from the tree. Linda had you, sisters are great supports, sometimes more than husbands, they have known us longer. May be she would tell you, your are counting your chickens before their hatched or jumping fences before you get to them. I'm the worlds best at becoming stressed, fearing what I may be told is the worst possible. What happened to Linda does not have to be what is in store for you. I'm sure its the waiting getting to you, patience is not my best virtue either, knowing something yesterday is always better than tomorrow.
One thought on meals. Might the recipe function help. If you could represent some of your regular "go to"meals as recipes then you could allocate the approximate amount you have one day and then the leftovers the next, the calories would even out over the two days. You can use the function many times.
When it comes to how we title meals, I think you can change the titles on offer to something to suit yourselves making it way better for you, (can't remember how) Then as you accumulate the full range of individual food items you eat on your food log, the easier it will become to build up the shape of your day in foods no matter how small the amount your consume. I'm sure you can make the system work for you. I'm asuming you are using the guided set up at the moment. You may eventually find benefits in the personalised option.
Wishing you well for Friday. Take care.1 -
I guess I have 6 days until I get definitive answers. I’m scared. I don’t have my sister Linda’s courage. But I want to be well prepared as well. That’s where MFP and all of you come in.
I think all we can do now is try to be supportive (and it sounds like that's what you are looking for). I hope you get a good and helpful answer, and having the logs to show your medical team will likely be a place to start for any nutritional alterations.1 -
blooie1, my simple thoughts. Keep doing what you are doing. Use MFP to log all of your foods. Then print it all out to take with you to your Dr. appointment. Also you may want to make sure to print out the reports part as well, because that will show based on your food logs the breakdown for carbs, fat, protein, sodium, sugar or what you change it to.
Most kidney specialists if in a clinic seem to have dieticians on staff. Because I am pretty sure you will be getting a very specific diet meal plan to follow. Along with precise liquid intake allowances. And this is where I think it will be great if they will really take into consideration what you are already doing, so they can see where the adjustments need to be made.
Let staff know you have a food scale so you can be very accurate in your measurements of foods ongoing.
I would not suggest making any changes to exercise or diet until you have the go ahead as to what they think is best.
Wishing you the best, and once you know your exact reccommendations then folks here can assist a bit better.
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Since you have different needs and want to pay attention to micronutrients like potassium, you might want to consider using a tool like Cronometer https://cronometer.com/3
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robingmurphy wrote: »Since you have different needs and want to pay attention to micronutrients like potassium, you might want to consider using a tool like Cronometer https://cronometer.com/
This.0 -
Also, nutritiondata.com isn’t set up as conveniently as MFP, but it does provide all micronutrients, and it’s database is not user sourced (all entries are “verified”).
Go Duke!1 -
@blooie1 How's it going. Wondering how you're getting along.
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