Leg extension and Leg Curl machine
Sathmi20xo
Posts: 2 Member
How many sets are you supposed to do when using these machines? Atm I’m doing 8 reps of 4 sets per machine. I read somewhere that you should do 2 sets of leg curl machine for 1 set of Leg extension machine???? Is this true? And also should you be doing low weight when using these machines?
Thank u x
Thank u x
1
Replies
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There is no set number. Ideally, you'd be following some sort of program that provides guidance on how many reps to do and what weight each should be. Do you have a plan?3
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janejellyroll wrote: »There is no set number. Ideally, you'd be following some sort of program that provides guidance on how many reps to do and what weight each should be. Do you have a plan?
Thanks for replying. Yes I do have a plan. On leg days there are squats, lunges, deadlifts but not leg extension or leg curl. I kinda like the burn I feel after using these machines.
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Sathmi20xo wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »There is no set number. Ideally, you'd be following some sort of program that provides guidance on how many reps to do and what weight each should be. Do you have a plan?
Thanks for replying. Yes I do have a plan. On leg days there are squats, lunges, deadlifts but not leg extension or leg curl. I kinda like the burn I feel after using these machines.
If these exercises aren't part of your plan, then there is no set number you should do. It's up to you, but I would question whether or not they're providing any particular benefit if you already have a well-designed plan.1 -
Personal preference really. Depends on what outcome you are after.
Toning.. light weights.. build muscles.. heavy weights.. etc.2 -
Personally I don't like the feel of the leg curl/leg extension so I save the heavy weight/low rep sets for squats and deadlifts.
If I do use the machine (which is rarely) I'd do something like 3 sets of 8-10 reps with a moderate weight. I really don't think it's necessary if you're already squatting and deadlifting though.2 -
Leg extensions and leg curls should be done sparingly with low weight. They're actually really hard on the knees. The leg extension puts maximal force on the back of the patella which is the thinnest portion of the cartilage and can easily cause damage. They also cause the tibia to move forward on the thigh bone which stretches the ACL.
They're kind of a waste of time really, especially if you're doing squats and deads. If you do them, they should be done with minimal weight. My trainer might have me do a really low weight warm up set or two with extensions and/or curls, but otherwise we don't use that thing at all.10 -
thescouselander77 wrote: »Personally I don't like the feel of the leg curl/leg extension so I save the heavy weight/low rep sets for squats and deadlifts.
If I do use the machine (which is rarely) I'd do something like 3 sets of 8-10 reps with a moderate weight. I really don't think it's necessary if you're already squatting and deadlifting though.
I agree with this.
If you're following a plan designed by somebody who likely knows more about putting together a lifting plan than you do, why would you think that throwing in some random exercises would improve it? If it was a good idea, why wouldn't the person who designed your plan have included leg curls and leg extensions?3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Leg extensions and leg curls should be done sparingly with low weight. They're actually really hard on the knees. The leg extension puts maximal force on the back of the patella which is the thinnest portion of the cartilage and can easily cause damage. They also cause the tibia to move forward on the thigh bone which stretches the ACL.
They're kind of a waste of time really, especially if you're doing squats and deads. If you do them, they should be done with minimal weight. My trainer might have me do a really low weight warm up set or two with extensions and/or curls, but otherwise we don't use that thing at all.
You beat me to this warning. I've had knee issues for 11 years now, which my PT thinks were instigated by these machines.6 -
My physical therapist banned me from doing these machines for the reasons mentioned by cwolfman134
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kshama2001 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leg extensions and leg curls should be done sparingly with low weight. They're actually really hard on the knees. The leg extension puts maximal force on the back of the patella which is the thinnest portion of the cartilage and can easily cause damage. They also cause the tibia to move forward on the thigh bone which stretches the ACL.
They're kind of a waste of time really, especially if you're doing squats and deads. If you do them, they should be done with minimal weight. My trainer might have me do a really low weight warm up set or two with extensions and/or curls, but otherwise we don't use that thing at all.
You beat me to this warning. I've had knee issues for 11 years now, which my PT thinks were instigated by these machines.
Funny I got a couple of disagrees...extensions being hard on the knees is pretty well documented.7 -
Good to know. I no longer feel bad about avoiding these machines. They just... felt wrong and my knees are enough of a problem as is.3
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The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.9 -
Haven't used a leg curl machine for years. Personally big fan of leg curl on Swiss ball. Much more core engagement as you aren't lying on a bench. If 2 legs is to easy do it one leg at a time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooBHR3nf3-M&feature=youtu.be 1 -
The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.
useful for what though? aesthetics?
Stiff legged deadlifts can be used to hit hammies, squats, and lunges for quad, these machines are more for a bodybuilder to work the muscle in a certain way to get a certain look. the machines in themselves do nothing to help "real life" as those are motions you don't use... so unless a bodybuilder, they are a waste of time and potential for injury. reward is not worth the risk.4 -
The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.
useful for what though? aesthetics?
Stiff legged deadlifts can be used to hit hammies, squats, and lunges for quad, these machines are more for a bodybuilder to work the muscle in a certain way to get a certain look. the machines in themselves do nothing to help "real life" as those are motions you don't use... so unless a bodybuilder, they are a waste of time and potential for injury. reward is not worth the risk.
I would tend to agree. Google pictures of the athletic team's weight rooms at places like Notre Dame, Miami, Ohio State, etc, places that have virtually unlimited funds and are trying to build strong, athletic individuals You don't see leg extension/curl machines.1 -
To avoid knee problems, I keep glutes engaged and keep range of motion engaged (for leg extensions). I also adjust weights for 12 reps. (I had experience with knee pain after doing these before and found that weak core/glutes was the problem.) I started doing them thinking It would help me get stronger at squats. I found they didn’t do much for strength but helped with muscle definition above knee. So proceed with caution and maybe put more effort into compound exercises like squats and deadlifts.5
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The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.
useful for what though? aesthetics?
Stiff legged deadlifts can be used to hit hammies, squats, and lunges for quad, these machines are more for a bodybuilder to work the muscle in a certain way to get a certain look. the machines in themselves do nothing to help "real life" as those are motions you don't use... so unless a bodybuilder, they are a waste of time and potential for injury. reward is not worth the risk.
As a person who trains in a bodybuilding-esque way, I use them quite often. Depending on what my program is It can be as simple as 3 or 4 sets of 10, or pyramid sets, or, like today, 15 minutes non stop going from one to the other - the harder it got the less reps I did. The weight was lightish - like maybe 60% only of my max. It was my first go at this 15 minute madness thing so I wanted to test the waters with less weights. I can go up next time as it was easier than I expected.
Haven't had any apparent issues with the knees (yet anyway), but I do always make sure that I am conscious of what I'm engaging - like the mind:muscle connection thing and not just "hey sit here and make my legs move back and forwards"
I quite like them.
2 minute killers on them are fun too. 2 minutes non stop. Light weight but non stop on the timer. 1 machine at a time, of course.
Now to sit back and watch the "disagrees" come rolling in.4 -
PS - I wouldn’t recommend that 15 minute thing or the 2 minute killer thing to a newbie
Stick to basic until muscles are stronger and mind muscle connection better
And keep squatting and deadlifting etc2 -
The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.
useful for what though? aesthetics?
Stiff legged deadlifts can be used to hit hammies, squats, and lunges for quad, these machines are more for a bodybuilder to work the muscle in a certain way to get a certain look. the machines in themselves do nothing to help "real life" as those are motions you don't use... so unless a bodybuilder, they are a waste of time and potential for injury. reward is not worth the risk.
@erickirb
Leg extensions were a big part of my rehab from a knee injury that resulted in major muscle loss from my quads - I had virtually no visible shape of my vastus medialus on the injured leg.
It's also a good exercise for people who do sports involving kicking - that's real life when you play football or rugby but you might do leg extension catches rather than go heavy.
But agree with the point @cwolfman13 makes - leg extension do put a lot of torsion through your knee joint for the relative amount of muscle activation compared to other exercises. That doesn't mean they should be avoided though, it means the load needs to be appropriate for the individual.3 -
Cahgetsfit wrote: »The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.
useful for what though? aesthetics?
Stiff legged deadlifts can be used to hit hammies, squats, and lunges for quad, these machines are more for a bodybuilder to work the muscle in a certain way to get a certain look. the machines in themselves do nothing to help "real life" as those are motions you don't use... so unless a bodybuilder, they are a waste of time and potential for injury. reward is not worth the risk.
As a person who trains in a bodybuilding-esque way, I use them quite often. Depending on what my program is It can be as simple as 3 or 4 sets of 10, or pyramid sets, or, like today, 15 minutes non stop going from one to the other - the harder it got the less reps I did. The weight was lightish - like maybe 60% only of my max. It was my first go at this 15 minute madness thing so I wanted to test the waters with less weights. I can go up next time as it was easier than I expected.
Haven't had any apparent issues with the knees (yet anyway), but I do always make sure that I am conscious of what I'm engaging - like the mind:muscle connection thing and not just "hey sit here and make my legs move back and forwards"
I quite like them.
2 minute killers on them are fun too. 2 minutes non stop. Light weight but non stop on the timer. 1 machine at a time, of course.
Now to sit back and watch the "disagrees" come rolling in.
I don't use "disagree"
I hope your experience is better than mine. I didn't have any knee issues, until I did, and that has lasted 11 years.
My knees aren't like my hamstrings - those get sore, but with some foam rolling that goes away.0 -
The key in using these machines without knee problems is to use a weight that you can do 12 to 15 reps with reasonably and reducing overall range of motion.
So, not too heavy and not all the way to the top or all the way to the bottom. I've done this kind of load and motion management for years and have had no problems. I find these machines very useful.
useful for what though? aesthetics?
Stiff legged deadlifts can be used to hit hammies, squats, and lunges for quad, these machines are more for a bodybuilder to work the muscle in a certain way to get a certain look. the machines in themselves do nothing to help "real life" as those are motions you don't use... so unless a bodybuilder, they are a waste of time and potential for injury. reward is not worth the risk.
@erickirb
Leg extensions were a big part of my rehab from a knee injury that resulted in major muscle loss from my quads - I had virtually no visible shape of my vastus medialus on the injured leg.
It's also a good exercise for people who do sports involving kicking - that's real life when you play football or rugby but you might do leg extension catches rather than go heavy.
But agree with the point @cwolfman13 makes - leg extension do put a lot of torsion through your knee joint for the relative amount of muscle activation compared to other exercises. That doesn't mean they should be avoided though, it means the load needs to be appropriate for the individual.
I did use them when recovering from torn ACL, as part of rehab. but again was light and done for a purpose. In general, this exercise can do more harm than good. especially when trying to go heavy on it2 -
For hypertrophy, I do 15-12-10-8.
For burn sets, I do a 100 at lighter weight.0 -
Cahgetsfit wrote: »PS - I wouldn’t recommend that 15 minute thing or the 2 minute killer thing to a newbie
Stick to basic until muscles are stronger and mind muscle connection better
And keep squatting and deadlifting etc
Wow, 15 minutes.0 -
After reading through this thread I skipped the leg extension and curl machines for legs today and did 3 sets of 10 squats with a 30 lb kettle bell, 3 sets of 10 (5 each leg) lunges with 20 lb kettle bells in each hand. Finished up with 3 sets of 10 dead lift 160 lbs and 3 sets of 10 squats 130 lbs. my hamstrings (and legs in general) are more sore than any time recently with the extension and curl machines. Looks like I’ll be doing this plus a few other body weight exercise I like from now on4
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Well shoot, between this thread and the weight lifting book I'm reading my routine is getting picked apart for legs! I feel safer on machines for legs because of my back being fused, having nerve damage, and being a clutz with bad balance but may have to brave a new leg routine. Out of 6 machines the only one that hasn't been discussed is my favorite calf machine!1
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braves3134 wrote: »After reading through this thread I skipped the leg extension and curl machines for legs today and did 3 sets of 10 squats with a 30 lb kettle bell, 3 sets of 10 (5 each leg) lunges with 20 lb kettle bells in each hand. Finished up with 3 sets of 10 dead lift 160 lbs and 3 sets of 10 squats 130 lbs. my hamstrings (and legs in general) are more sore than any time recently with the extension and curl machines. Looks like I’ll be doing this plus a few other body weight exercise I like from now on
I reckon you should step up the intensity; thats a lot of volume you're doing with not much weight. Your legs arent going to notice squats at 30lb and you wont be getting anywhere near full muscle activation which means little benefit for those early sets.
My squats and deadlifts really took off when I started doing sets of 5. For squats I'll normally do 3 working sets with 2 or 3 warmup sets and then 1 set of 5 for deadlift (basically as per Starting Strength) - I'll do that 3 times a week. Doing higher volume (over 5 reps) on deadlifts is risky especially when lifting heavy as form can rapidly break down as fatigue sets in - since you're already doing 10 reps at 160lb you'll probably be able to up the weight a good bit for 5 reps.
The issue I have now is that my quads and hamstrings have grown so much I can only wear jeans with stretch in them.2 -
thescouselander77 wrote: »braves3134 wrote: »After reading through this thread I skipped the leg extension and curl machines for legs today and did 3 sets of 10 squats with a 30 lb kettle bell, 3 sets of 10 (5 each leg) lunges with 20 lb kettle bells in each hand. Finished up with 3 sets of 10 dead lift 160 lbs and 3 sets of 10 squats 130 lbs. my hamstrings (and legs in general) are more sore than any time recently with the extension and curl machines. Looks like I’ll be doing this plus a few other body weight exercise I like from now on
I reckon you should step up the intensity; thats a lot of volume you're doing with not much weight. Your legs arent going to notice squats at 30lb and you wont be getting anywhere near full muscle activation which means little benefit for those early sets.
My squats and deadlifts really took off when I started doing sets of 5. For squats I'll normally do 3 working sets with 2 or 3 warmup sets and then 1 set of 5 for deadlift (basically as per Starting Strength) - I'll do that 3 times a week. Doing higher volume (over 5 reps) on deadlifts is risky especially when lifting heavy as form can rapidly break down as fatigue sets in - since you're already doing 10 reps at 160lb you'll probably be able to up the weight a good bit for 5 reps.
The issue I have now is that my quads and hamstrings have grown so much I can only wear jeans with stretch in them.
The early kettle bell sets are more for warm up. I have naturally tight hips so a few low weight sets to start helps with my range of motion when I get to the real squat and deadlift. As far as reps, I plan to work up to 15 reps x 3 sets for both squat and dead lift and adjust the weight accordingly (if the weight is too heavy to finish the set with good form, I stop and lower the weight to finish. I’m very big on having proper form both to avoid injury and to get the most out of the exercise). I’m holding off on 5 rep, high weight sets till I lose another 60-70 lbs or so. Right now I’m focusing on building a solid base of muscle with high workload capacity. Stamina > overall strength for right now
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Every weight lifting machine has a purpose and a safe use. If you don't know what the purpose is, you shouldn't be using the machine. For most people who don't need to target very specific muscles or do very specific things with their muscles, they should be using free weights and body weight (absent a specific injury, or other similar necessitating factor).3
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