Western diet and brain function
Replies
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I'm not surprised. Junk food is literally engineered to hook you like a drug. (waits for barrage of "disagree" lol) but really just look at how many people are diabetic now. I have cut all this stuff out of my life to get my blood sugar back in line and to function normally without all sorts of absurd cravings day and night.6
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Would not surprise me.
Also from the Guardian a couple of days ago, did you see this?
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/feb/13/how-ultra-processed-food-took-over-your-shopping-basket-brazil-carlos-monteiro
TL:DR Even low fat, low carb "healthy" food probably isn't that good for you it if it has an additional dose of emulsifiers, artificial sweetners, preservatives and flavour enhancers mixed in with it, for reasons which aren't entirely clear. Although I'm sure I've heard Michael Moseley say it is because it really messes with your gut microbiome. Which is unfortunate because it is cheap, tasty and convenient.
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The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.29 -
The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious3 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway:18 -
This subject is highly individualistic. Some people can manage high energy dense processed foods. Some can't. It's really up to the individual. Candy bars are high energy dense and easily binge able to some folks, but so are nuts. Especially salted or flavorful ones. I think the more of the energy dense /processed one chooses to eat. The more calorie counting helps. While one can binge of apples, it is generally harder. Not bringing into play BED. I personally have experienced the pull away from certain foods like cookies ect, as I almost eliminated then from my diet. Now, my eyes are drawn to fruits ect. So, I think one can over write old cravings for some of us.7
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There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Big Money.
In the US, (as AnnPT would tell us) if we wanted organic, oven roasted, single-serve packs of brussel sprouts and if we snatched them all up the moment they hit the shelves, then companies would be falling all over themselves to provide the very best tasting and easiest and most attractive packs of organic, oven roasted brussel sprouts.
It's not what's "on offer" it's what makes the most money, and if you look at the entire 75 foot long aisle of soda pop at any grocery store, you will get a clue that the profit is in sweetened tap water that has been carbonated.
Heck, who knew we'd pay two dollars for bottles of plain water? Ridiculous. We've got more money than sense.11 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway:
If were going to nitpick, the percentage was so much lower in comparison my brain did not note it.3 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway:
If were going to nitpick, the percentage was so much lower in comparison my brain did not note it.
That's the problem with broad sweeping generalizations... You can't really say that it's true across the board.6 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Have you ever been to Paris? Bakeries and sweets are on every corner and where cookies, sweet breads, and croissants are pretty common for breakfast if you're a breakfast person. It's less about specific types of food and more about eating culture.12 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Have you ever been to Paris? Bakeries and sweets are on every corner and where cookies, sweet breads, and croissants are pretty common for breakfast if you're a breakfast person. It's less about specific types of food and more about eating culture.
Yes I have, and I can agree with that perspective!0 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Have you ever been to Paris? Bakeries and sweets are on every corner and where cookies, sweet breads, and croissants are pretty common for breakfast if you're a breakfast person. It's less about specific types of food and more about eating culture.
Yes I have, and I can agree with that perspective!
So sugar soaked everything is not the problem. Even when I was morbidly obese a single scoop of ice cream was enough. Ice cream was not and never will be a problem for me because it was never in my eating habits to overeat it. Same for cookies and chips. Although what's on offer plays a role, the habits you're used to play the biggest role.9 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Have you ever been to Paris? Bakeries and sweets are on every corner and where cookies, sweet breads, and croissants are pretty common for breakfast if you're a breakfast person. It's less about specific types of food and more about eating culture.
Yes I have, and I can agree with that perspective!
This is not a pile on, but I live in Rome, Italy. Italians eat a lot of sweets, pasta, pizza, wine, ..... But, they know portion control and prefer to eat less, but better quality. I know some fat Italians and a couple are obese. However, looking around on the street, people are mostly thin. They also drink wine and soft drinks in moderation--no free refills and glass size is smaller.5 -
NoNoNo, we in the "West" are helpless victims of the evil Big Food conspiracy that pushes Frankenfoods they've engineered to addict us!
We have no control; we are not responsible!
It's probably a multi-way conspiracy with Big Pharma/the Medico-Industrial Complex (push pills & prescription-renewal office visits for chronic diseases they secretly know how to cure, but they hide the truth), and Big Automation (with their robot vacuum cleaners, game consoles, internet and ubiquitous universal remote controls keeping us pinned in our cushy overstuffed recliners 24x7)!
It's not our fault! We have no control! We are helpless victims!
Or . . . maybe just act like a sensible grown-up, and take responsibility for things that we individually, personally literally control, like what food goes in our mouths and gets swallowed, and how often/how much we move our bodies?
SMH.29 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Then almost half are not which says that food choices alone do not dictate obesity. It is portion control and overall lifestyle. You can eat as "healthy" as you want but if you eat in a surplus you will gain weight over time. A surplus is the most easily created in a sedentary individual. It is even easier for a person that has sharp decline in activity which is how I managed to gain a lot of my weight. I kept going through lifestyle changes as I got older but it didn't occur to me that I needed less food or that I needed to compensate for less NEAT with more exercise.
We need to stop trying to find an answer outside of personal choices because it sends the wrong message.
I could blame the 24 hour news cycle for obesity. News events about children get massive ratings which translates to money so they get loads of coverage. Parents living in fear of statistically improbable events are keeping their kids inside and conditioning them to be less active.
So is the answer to get rid of 24 hour news? I wish. I can't even blame the news for my obesity since I spent most of my childhood outside.
I could make a case for cars, air conditioning, supermarkets, video games, outsourcing of jobs, and who knows what else.
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Ann FTW.
That's right, they sell us what we buy.
I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.9 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway:
If were going to nitpick, the percentage was so much lower in comparison my brain did not note it.
Maybe your diet impaired your brain function?
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cmriverside wrote: »
Ann FTW.
That's right, they sell us what we buy.
I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.
Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.
This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society
The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience.
I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis.4 -
Back on the core of the thread: i wouldn't want to draw a lot of conclusions from a study of 110 20-something students, some eating a prescribed "Western style diet" and how their performance on word tests differs from a control group of students eating their normal diet (which is somehow less a standard diet than some high fat/sugar thing researchers dreamed up, I guess).
I don't feel sufficiently motivated to go read the actual study, but since the article mentions eating certain breakfasts in the lab, I'm guessing they just handed the 20-somethings instructions about how to eat during the study period, as in many dietary studies, and trusted them for compliance.
This would for better in the debate forum, IMO.6 -
jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
We've plenty of fast food chains (You will find McDonald's, KFC, Pizza Hut, Dominos etc in almost all major European Cities & Large Towns amongst other international & national chains) and stores filled with sugar soaked everything. We also have plenty of obese people too.9 -
110 lean and healthy students, aged 20 to 23, who generally ate a good diet - i'd be interested to see how this was defined
also we don't know anything about the sleep patterns of the subjects - i say that because lack of sleep/poor sleep (which i know i as a college student was known for) - can also influence foods that people chose to eat2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
Ann FTW.
That's right, they sell us what we buy.
I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.
Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.
This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society
The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience.
I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis.
Well yeah, and there's a whole body of research work around exorphins too. I didn't read those links above and I'm not going to. Things do influence us, physiologically and psychologically. It's the age-old nature/nurture argument. Some of them are harder to overcome than others, and maybe there are outliers due to body-snatching-like parasites or gut biome-microbes...
Meh, I don't have to eat that half gallon of ice cream. I didn't have to drink all that rum, either. Doesn't mean I don't want to. The struggle is real!2 -
The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes.
I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh.
I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one.1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »jenncornelsen wrote: »The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway:
Also, pretty sure Europe is part of "the west," so defining a "western diet" that excludes Europeans is odd.
It is also pretty easy to avoid "sugar soaked everything" in the US if one wants to (or eat a lot of it in Europe, I certainly have done that too).7 -
cmriverside wrote: »
Ann FTW.
That's right, they sell us what we buy.
I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.
Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.
This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society
You're still talking about things that affect our impulses, and they aren't the only things affecting our impulses.
Does the book suggest that parasites were different before roughly 1980, and that they even now differ dramatically between counties with different obesity rates, but such close ties (including food trade) that we struggle to contain something like the new coronavirus?
I'm still in camp "my hand, my mouth". I've seen friends who "had no control" find some, and change. I've done it myself. It's primarily a matter of chosen behavior.
Hedonic indulgence is nearly always easier (in many domains, not just food and exercise). That doesn't make us helpless victims.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
Ann FTW.
That's right, they sell us what we buy.
I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.
Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.
This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society
The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience.
I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis.
Well yeah, and there's a whole body of research work around exorphins too. I didn't read those links above and I'm not going to. Things do influence us, physiologically and psychologically. It's the age-old nature/nurture argument. Some of them are harder to overcome than others, and maybe there are outliers due to body-snatching-like parasites or gut biome-microbes...
Meh, I don't have to eat that half gallon of ice cream. I didn't have to drink all that rum, either. Doesn't mean I don't want to. The struggle is real!
Yeah, I'm not trying to present myself as some sort of super-human. There are times when I do things and I'm like "Gosh, I really wish I hadn't done that!" But I recognize on some level that it was *me* because we're psychologically complex people who respond to stress and desire in very specific ways, it's not like I feel I've actually lost control of my body to a "non-me" force like a brain parasite.
(I do understand that some people experience their binges or loss of control as an outside force or true loss of control and I don't mean to discount that).2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
Ann FTW.
That's right, they sell us what we buy.
I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.
Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.
This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society
The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience.
I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis.
Well yeah, and there's a whole body of research work around exorphins too. I didn't read those links above and I'm not going to. Things do influence us, physiologically and psychologically. It's the age-old nature/nurture argument. Some of them are harder to overcome than others, and maybe there are outliers due to body-snatching-like parasites or gut biome-microbes...
Meh, I don't have to eat that half gallon of ice cream. I didn't have to drink all that rum, either. Doesn't mean I don't want to. The struggle is real!
Yeah, I'm not trying to present myself as some sort of super-human. There are times when I do things and I'm like "Gosh, I really wish I hadn't done that!" But I recognize on some level that it was *me* because we're psychologically complex people who respond to stress and desire in very specific ways, it's not like I feel I've actually lost control of my body to a "non-me" force like a brain parasite.
(I do understand that some people experience their binges or loss of control as an outside force or true loss of control and I don't mean to discount that).
To put a sharper point on it: Literal cases of literal binge eating - in that sense of some uncontrollable force outside oneself forcing massive single-session eating - are not the explanation of the "obesity crisis".3 -
The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes.
I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh.
I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one.
The odd thing to me is that the people that I do know personally that eat in way that is probably meant by whatever a Western or SAD is supposed to be have been more or less weight stable for decades. We are not talking obese either. We are talking healthy weight or slightly overweight. I can't say the same thing about people I know who eat Eastern/Southern/Northern, Up, Down, Left or Right Diets.
I wonder if the levels of obesity would change drastically if we took all of the food we have available now back in time 150 years.1 -
The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes.
I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh.
I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one.
The odd thing to me is that the people that I do know personally that eat in way that is probably meant by whatever a Western or SAD is supposed to be have been more or less weight stable for decades. We are not talking obese either. We are talking healthy weight or slightly overweight. I can't say the same thing about people I know who eat Eastern/Southern/Northern, Up, Down, Left or Right Diets.
I wonder if the levels of obesity would change drastically if we took all of the food we have available now back in time 150 years.
But with today's prices and availability and portion sizes, as well as the current lack of activity? Arguably not at all.
I think there's a counterargument, which I find much more convincing than the "ultraprocessed foods are too hard not to overeat." It's that the current availability of easy to make (or readymade) high cal snack foods and meal options means that people eat more often than they otherwise would and eat higher cal options more than otherwise. It's a lot easier to go grab a burger and fries (or lamb vindaloo) if that requires no actual cooking and is easily available, and similarly if there are a variety of snack foods sitting out on the counter (or the office break room) one is more likely to consume them than if one has to actually make them yourself, and it seems people eat more when variety is greater too, and variety is much greater now. I also think there's generally more opportunity for mindless eating while doing other things which could happen with foods available 150 years ago, but many pre-packaged snack foods are especially convenient for this (although I certainly used to choose something like cheese for a snack).2 -
The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves.
In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio.
So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes.
I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh.
I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one.
The odd thing to me is that the people that I do know personally that eat in way that is probably meant by whatever a Western or SAD is supposed to be have been more or less weight stable for decades. We are not talking obese either. We are talking healthy weight or slightly overweight. I can't say the same thing about people I know who eat Eastern/Southern/Northern, Up, Down, Left or Right Diets.
I wonder if the levels of obesity would change drastically if we took all of the food we have available now back in time 150 years.
But with today's prices and availability and portion sizes, as well as the current lack of activity? Arguably not at all.
I think there's a counterargument, which I find much more convincing than the "ultraprocessed foods are too hard not to overeat." It's that the current availability of easy to make (or readymade) high cal snack foods and meal options means that people eat more often than they otherwise would and eat higher cal options more than otherwise. It's a lot easier to go grab a burger and fries (or lamb vindaloo) if that requires no actual cooking and is easily available, and similarly if there are a variety of snack foods sitting out on the counter (or the office break room) one is more likely to consume them than if one has to actually make them yourself, and it seems people eat more when variety is greater too, and variety is much greater now. I also think there's generally more opportunity for mindless eating while doing other things which could happen with foods available 150 years ago, but many pre-packaged snack foods are especially convenient for this (although I certainly used to choose something like cheese for a snack).
I was thinking along the same lines. We used to eat at meal or snack times. Now, it seems to be culturally ok to eat at anytime. Driving? No problem. We have handheld fast foods. Meetings at work? Donuts on the table. Hungry at your desk? We have packs of chips and candy. One of the reasons I think the French only recently became heavier was culture even though they ate pretty rich foods. They generally only ate at meal times and in a way many did a form of I.F. Many would have an ultra light breakfast... i.e. a black coffee and maybe a piece of toast....and not eat a main meal until lunch. While if we went back 150 years people still made pies and cakes in the kitchen. They were just less often. Sugar was still expensive and fats were limited to butter and lard in many cases. People also were just move damn active. Cooking, cleaning, walking, moving in daily life.1
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