NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine.
jenncornelsen wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious
Chef_Barbell wrote: » jenncornelsen wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway:
jenncornelsen wrote: » Chef_Barbell wrote: » jenncornelsen wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious Did you seriously say there are no fat Europeans? :noway: If were going to nitpick, the percentage was so much lower in comparison my brain did not note it.
amusedmonkey wrote: » jenncornelsen wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious Have you ever been to Paris? Bakeries and sweets are on every corner and where cookies, sweet breads, and croissants are pretty common for breakfast if you're a breakfast person. It's less about specific types of food and more about eating culture.
jenncornelsen wrote: » amusedmonkey wrote: » jenncornelsen wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. I would disagree, because if you look at statistics, over half of people following a western diet are either obese or overweight. I've met many grown adults with 0 concept of health. I personally can easily stick to 1 apple, but a bag of my favorite cookies? Not so much. The issue become more obvious to me after travelling europe. No obese people! The average person was in a healthy weight range. It was seriously mind blowing. The difference? Almost no fast food chains, stores not filled with sugar soaked everything! There's a huge difference in whats on offer, and the results are obvious Have you ever been to Paris? Bakeries and sweets are on every corner and where cookies, sweet breads, and croissants are pretty common for breakfast if you're a breakfast person. It's less about specific types of food and more about eating culture. Yes I have, and I can agree with that perspective!
jm_1234 wrote: » cmriverside wrote: » Ann FTW. That's right, they sell us what we buy. I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth. Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society
cmriverside wrote: » Ann FTW. That's right, they sell us what we buy. I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth.
janejellyroll wrote: » jm_1234 wrote: » cmriverside wrote: » Ann FTW. That's right, they sell us what we buy. I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth. Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience. I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis.
cmriverside wrote: » janejellyroll wrote: » jm_1234 wrote: » cmriverside wrote: » Ann FTW. That's right, they sell us what we buy. I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth. Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience. I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis. Well yeah, and there's a whole body of research work around exorphins too. I didn't read those links above and I'm not going to. Things do influence us, physiologically and psychologically. It's the age-old nature/nurture argument. Some of them are harder to overcome than others, and maybe there are outliers due to body-snatching-like parasites or gut biome-microbes... Meh, I don't have to eat that half gallon of ice cream. I didn't have to drink all that rum, either. Doesn't mean I don't want to. The struggle is real!
janejellyroll wrote: » cmriverside wrote: » janejellyroll wrote: » jm_1234 wrote: » cmriverside wrote: » Ann FTW. That's right, they sell us what we buy. I always say, no one is forcing food and drink into my body. My hand, my mouth. Actually, something could be forcing stuff into your body. Below is a really interesting book. And let's not forget about brain controlling cat parasites. My point is, to reduce everything to personal control is to ignore a lot of brain science that says otherwise.This Is Your Brain on Parasites: How Tiny Creatures Manipulate Our Behavior and Shape Society The thing is, I know from experience that I can choose what (and how much) I want to eat. Other people report the same experience. I'm not saying there may not be some people who genuinely lack the ability to control their actions. But there's a good sized chunk of people who can control what they eat, so I'm dubious about the whole "parasites made me eat it" hypothesis. Well yeah, and there's a whole body of research work around exorphins too. I didn't read those links above and I'm not going to. Things do influence us, physiologically and psychologically. It's the age-old nature/nurture argument. Some of them are harder to overcome than others, and maybe there are outliers due to body-snatching-like parasites or gut biome-microbes... Meh, I don't have to eat that half gallon of ice cream. I didn't have to drink all that rum, either. Doesn't mean I don't want to. The struggle is real! Yeah, I'm not trying to present myself as some sort of super-human. There are times when I do things and I'm like "Gosh, I really wish I hadn't done that!" But I recognize on some level that it was *me* because we're psychologically complex people who respond to stress and desire in very specific ways, it's not like I feel I've actually lost control of my body to a "non-me" force like a brain parasite. (I do understand that some people experience their binges or loss of control as an outside force or true loss of control and I don't mean to discount that).
lemurcat2 wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes. I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh. I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one.
NovusDies wrote: » lemurcat2 wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes. I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh. I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one. The odd thing to me is that the people that I do know personally that eat in way that is probably meant by whatever a Western or SAD is supposed to be have been more or less weight stable for decades. We are not talking obese either. We are talking healthy weight or slightly overweight. I can't say the same thing about people I know who eat Eastern/Southern/Northern, Up, Down, Left or Right Diets.I wonder if the levels of obesity would change drastically if we took all of the food we have available now back in time 150 years.
lemurcat2 wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » lemurcat2 wrote: » NovusDies wrote: » The problem with these scare articles is they do not consider food in moderation they just label it "Western" or "Standard American" and then lead people to assume that if they are in this region they are poisoning themselves. In reality I know of very few people that eat this way. Most people I know at least have a basic understanding that they need to include some things like vegetables and fruit in their diets and limit the food that has a less desirable nutrient to calorie ratio. So to me the moral of the story is that you should not eat like an unsupervised teen too often and you will be fine. Agreed, although I often do think -- in part from exposure on MFP and from some surveys -- that people in the US on average (and likely in the UK too) do eat quite a bit worse than those I talk to about such things and see eating most commonly, pretty much all of whom do eat vegetables and fruit and don't rely primarily on ultra processed foods and all the annoying stereotypes. I also think "standard American diet" was bad enough as a term (I continue to think the real standard American diet is the one I grew up with, and it wasn't perfect but had nothing to do with filling the cart with ultraprocessed items or consuming loads of soda and fast food), but now it's the "western diet" or "western pattern diet"? Sigh. I would also agree with you that it's basically just common sense. There's no nefarious "how did this happen to us"-- if you choose to eat mostly low nutrient foods and not eat your veg, that's a choice and everyone knows it's not a sensible one. The odd thing to me is that the people that I do know personally that eat in way that is probably meant by whatever a Western or SAD is supposed to be have been more or less weight stable for decades. We are not talking obese either. We are talking healthy weight or slightly overweight. I can't say the same thing about people I know who eat Eastern/Southern/Northern, Up, Down, Left or Right Diets.I wonder if the levels of obesity would change drastically if we took all of the food we have available now back in time 150 years. But with today's prices and availability and portion sizes, as well as the current lack of activity? Arguably not at all. I think there's a counterargument, which I find much more convincing than the "ultraprocessed foods are too hard not to overeat." It's that the current availability of easy to make (or readymade) high cal snack foods and meal options means that people eat more often than they otherwise would and eat higher cal options more than otherwise. It's a lot easier to go grab a burger and fries (or lamb vindaloo) if that requires no actual cooking and is easily available, and similarly if there are a variety of snack foods sitting out on the counter (or the office break room) one is more likely to consume them than if one has to actually make them yourself, and it seems people eat more when variety is greater too, and variety is much greater now. I also think there's generally more opportunity for mindless eating while doing other things which could happen with foods available 150 years ago, but many pre-packaged snack foods are especially convenient for this (although I certainly used to choose something like cheese for a snack).
