Question for self professed "sugar addicts"

cwolfman13

Once upon a time I drank between 3 and 6 Mt Dew per day. In an effort to lose weight, I cut those out for awhile. I did not get the shakes or sweats...I did not have headaches or even mild hallucinations...I did not have any symptoms that I would, from experience, attribute to detoxing.

I find many of these claims of addiction to foods to be a bit disturbing...and more of an excuse than anything else.

jwdieter

Rats =/= Humans. There have been studies on humans looking at the metabolic differences between HFCS and sucrose though, wonder what those showed?

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/142/2/251.full
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/37385
http://www.jacn.org/content/28/6/619.full
http://advances.nutrition.org/content/4/2/246.full

Regarding the original question, people should take the steps they need to take to achieve their goals. If they feel like they can eat fruit in moderation, but can't eat refined sugars in moderation, that's fine. They should eat the fruit and avoid the refined sugars. No point in mocking.

pamelak5

Serious question:

Why is it a bad habit to have desert every night after dinner? I just don't get it.

Personally I sometimes have 3 deserts after dinner. It's all accounted for and pre planned.

I think it depends on the size of the dessert and your goals. Daily dessertsused to fit my macros as provided by MFP. But then my goals changed. I am trying to get 30% of my calories from protein, and there is simply zero room for daily desserts. Also, I thought my diet was fine, but realized that I was avoiding other healthier foods in order to make room for my sugar fix. Avocados, nuts, whole grains, etc. I still enjoy desserts occasionally but I realized that I was displacing too much good stuff to make room for the treats.

I agree that "addict" is too strong a word. Dependency? Habit? Maybe.

redladywitch

Being a recovering addict, I always kinda cringe when someone says they're addicted to sugar or fast food or whatever...I never say anything, but I always kinda cringe...because addiction is no bull **** and I think people just throw that word around a lot to simply mean they lack self control...being an addict is so much more than that and recovery is a *****.

I have to agree. I also think people use the word addiction when they really mean lack of self control. I have a lot of friends who are recovering addicts and recovering alcoholics. It's no *walk in the park*.

MoreBean13

Serious question:

Why is it a bad habit to have desert every night after dinner? I just don't get it.

Personally I sometimes have 3 deserts after dinner. It's all accounted for and pre planned.

I think it depends on the size of the dessert and your goals. Daily dessertsused to fit my macros as provided by MFP. But then my goals changed. I am trying to get 30% of my calories from protein, and there is simply zero room for daily desserts. Also, I thought my diet was fine, but realized that I was avoiding other healthier foods in order to make room for my sugar fix. Avocados, nuts, whole grains, etc. I still enjoy desserts occasionally but I realized that I was displacing too much good stuff to make room for the treats.

I agree that "addict" is too strong a word. Dependency? Habit? Maybe.

I get 30% protein and have daily desserts. I did when I was losing weight, too (maintaining now), my desserts were just smaller, like a 50 cal piece of dark chocolate.

Acg67

Rats =/= Humans. There have been studies on humans looking at the metabolic differences between HFCS and sucrose though, wonder what those showed?

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/142/2/251.full

"Given that our study used cross-sectional data, we cannot be certain that fructose consumption has a direct effect on the measures associated with cardiometabolic risk. Second, although dietary recalls have been shown to more accurately detail types and amounts of food intake than FFQ, it is possible that the recalls may not accurately represent usual dietary intake"

And there is a multitude of data supporting how inaccurate dietary recall is. Also says nothing of it's addictive properties nor anything to due with HFCS and sucrose

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/37385

Ah, the Stanhope study that Lustig likes to talk about. Take sedentary overweight individuals and give them a bunch of supplemental fructose. Once again nothing about addictive properties or HFCS and sucrose

http://www.jacn.org/content/28/6/619.full

Page not found

http://advances.nutrition.org/content/4/2/246.full


Regarding the original question, people should take the steps they need to take to achieve their goals. If they feel like they can eat fruit in moderation, but can't eat refined sugars in moderation, that's fine. They should eat the fruit and avoid the refined sugars. No point in mocking.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/142/2/251.full

"Given that our study used cross-sectional data, we cannot be certain that fructose consumption has a direct effect on the measures associated with cardiometabolic risk. Second, although dietary recalls have been shown to more accurately detail types and amounts of food intake than FFQ, it is possible that the recalls may not accurately represent usual dietary intake"

And there is a multitude of data supporting how inaccurate dietary recall is. Also says nothing of it's addictive properties nor anything to due with HFCS and sucrose

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/37385

Ah, the Stanhope study that Lustig likes to talk about. Take sedentary overweight individuals and give them a bunch of supplemental fructose. Once again nothing about addictive properties or HFCS and sucrose

http://www.jacn.org/content/28/6/619.full

Page not found

http://advances.nutrition.org/content/4/2/246.full

And mocking? If someone says they are a sugar addict, maybe they should stop eating sugar or stop using it as an excuse.

maillemaker

I have to agree. I also think people use the word addiction when they really mean lack of self control. I have a lot of friends who are recovering addicts and recovering alcoholics. It's no *walk in the park*.

Uh, isn't the very definition of addiction a behavior that you cannot control?

I consider myself addicted to food in general. Tasty food, anyway, and sweets in particular.

Now I don't think you can eat fruit to somehow "cancel out sugar".

But you can eat fruit, which contains sugar, in moderation simply because you can't go ape-**** eating apples or bananas like you can, say, a box of Oreo cookies.

I could, and have, sit down and eat half a box of Oreo cookies. Easily. And when presented with the box of Oreo cookies, especially once my willpower has broken to where I've allowed myself to eat "one", I will probably break down and eat as many as I can eat.

There are about 53 calories in an Oreo. I'm guessing I'd eat about 20 of them in a sitting. That's over 1000 calories - nearly 60% of my daily caloric allotment.

Now apples also contain sugar. But they aren't nearly as appealing as the refined goodness of Oreos! An apple contains about 95 calories. In order to get the equivalent of 20 Oreos, I'd have to eat 11 apples.

I don't think I've ever felt compelled to eat that many apples at a sitting.

This is why eating natural foods is good for weight loss. Even if a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, there just aren't that many compelling natural foods that are as calorie dense and easy to over-consume as processed foods. There are some - shrimp, lobster, steak, etc. - but you'll have to lay out some serious coin to eat your fill of those things.

CTcutie

Replace the word "addiction" in this context with something like "sensitive", and I am on-board. FWIW I did not consider myself one to be "carb sensitive" until recently when I relaized how I can eat a piece of fruit and be satisfied versus a box of pastries a couple months ago. And still wish I had more!

Never really knew what an old boss meant when he said years ago that he was "caffeine sensitive" (something related to prostate enlargement??). Coffee, teas, etc. have NO effect on me, so I didn't get it. Now, I do.

Minnie2361

Sugar needs to be defined. Sugar to me is refined white sugar, brown sugar, high fructose corn syrup {with it many names depending on which country you are from}

It is not to eliminate sugar from the diet , sugar is energy but it is to go to a healthy source of sugar. It does not mean that you eat bags of applles orange peaches cherries etc daily. It mean getting a healthy amount of 2 cups daily of fruits.

Here is a cut and paste article on the subject

From this article : http://www.discovergoodnutrition.com/2011/02/the-truth-about-sugars-in-fruit/

The idea that fruit is “loaded with carbs” or is “full of sugar” needs to be put into perspective, too. It’s true that when you eat fruit, the overwhelming majority of the calories you consume are supplied by carbohydrate – mostly in the form of fructose, which is the natural sugar in fruit.

But that’s the nature not just of fruit, but of all plant foods – they’re predominantly carbohydrate (and that means not just natural sugars, but healthy starches as well as structural elements, like cellulose, that provide fiber). When you eat vegetables, the majority of the calories you’re eating come from carbohydrate, too. But you don’t hear people complaining that vegetables are “loaded with carbs”.

Before dismissing foods as being loaded with sugar, or too high in carbs, consider not only the amount of sugar or carbs you’re eating, but the form of the carbohydrate, too. There’s a big difference between the nutritional value of the natural carbohydrates found in fruits and other plant foods – the sugars, starches and fibers – and what’s found (or, more accurately, what’s not found) in all the empty calories we eat from added sugars that find their way into everything from brownies to barbecue sauce.

Faced with a serving of fruit, how much sugar are we talking about, anyway? An average orange has only about 12 grams of natural sugar (about 3 teaspoons) and a cup of strawberries has only about 7 grams – that’s less than two teaspoons. And either way, you’re also getting 3 grams of fiber, about a full day’s worth of vitamin C, healthy antioxidants and some folic acid and potassium to boot – and it’ll only cost you about 50 or 60 calories. “All sugar”? I think not.

By contrast, a 20-ounce cola will set you back about 225 calories and, needless to say, won’t be supplying any antioxidants, vitamins, minerals or fiber. You’ll just be chugging down some carbonated water, maybe some artificial color and flavor, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 grams of added sugar – about 1/3 of a cup.

Now that’s what I call “full of sugar”.

maillemaker

I dunno. Sensitive to me means capable of sensing more. Eating cookies doesn't make me sense more. I just like the frak out of eating cookies, and so it makes it very difficult to exercise self-control and not eat until satisfaction.

To me, that's addiction. It's the exact same reason an alcoholic can't have "just one drink". Once you open the barn door, the horses leave.

mrslcaines

I think the problem is in people inadvertently treating underlying depression issues with food. The simpler the sugars, the faster the serotonin release. More sugar, more serotonin (and, lucid high similar to that of a smoker), and you feel "better". Rinse, repeat, and a psychological habit is formed. No, it is not the same as a cocaine addiction, but challenging none the less (especially if the subsequent fatigue from weight gain is also treated with a sugar high).
Binge eating, as with other forms of self-harm, is also a way of releasing endorphins and treating depression and stress. It can create a cycle of behaviors that are often very ingrained, and also challenging to over come as trigger=binge=remorse=stress trigger .. and so on. Mild to moderate depression can be hard to spot and diagnose, and I would hazard a guess that many people in this cycle are unaware of what they are ACTUALLY doing (treating) or feeling. Hence, why it feels like an addiction in stead of an anti-depressant.
This does not remove personal responsibility, as treatment involves learning new coping mechanisms (endorphins through exercise, mediation, ect), using appropriate medication if needed, and ending the self-harming behaviors (and no one can do that for you). Over time, new habits will form, and physiological cues will be eliminated (ie 3pm "head ache" that would send some one headed towards the vending machine).
So, in many ways it does mirror addiction, as many of the processes are the same. The big difference is the changes (or lack thereof) in receptors in the brain. Nicotine, opioids, and other substances will cause those changes, where a 6 pack of donuts will not. Once blood sugars are stabilized, rebound depression is for less of an issue as well. Those with more ideal brain chemistry will get less of a pleasure feeling from a binge or sugar buzz, and *may* find them less tempting (though, people over-eat for a myriad of reasons).
Anyways, that's my 2 cents on it all (or nickel, as I'm Canadian, and we've eliminated pennies.)

maillemaker

Honestly unless you've ever been addicted to narcotics or alcohol you really won't understand why it makes no sense for some people when they hear others say they are addicted to sugar. Yes maybe you can sit and est 1000 calories in Oreos or cheesecake or whatever but have ever not paid your rent, you car or insurance, paid your utilities or fed your kids because you needed to buy Oreos? Have you ever only had 25 dollars to your name and convinced yourself you could go spend 20 of it on Oreos and live off the remaining 5 dollars for the week?

Hey, there's no doubt that people will go to different lengths to satisfy their addictions. But they are still addictions. Not everyone will stoop to armed robbery to satisfy an addiction, but some people will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

Addiction is the continued use of a psychoactive drug, or the repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences,[1] or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors.[2]

Addictions can include, but are not limited to, drug abuse, exercise addiction, food addiction, sexual addiction, computer addiction and gambling. Classic hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial.[3] Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).[4]

The fact is, any pleasurable stimulus can be addictive.

ritchiedrama

What do you do if you're fat? Blame sugar


It's that simple, it makes sense.

The issue lays with over consumption of calories, these people are addicted to food, not sugar.

I was fat, I ate sugary things, I lost weight whilst EATING sugary things.

I'm not addicted, I can go weeks without eating it, I don't want to stop eating it, why? It tastes good and I live once, why not?

maillemaker

I think the problem is in people inadvertently treating underlying depression issues with food. The simpler the sugars, the faster the serotonin release. More sugar, more serotonin (and, lucid high similar to that of a smoker), and you feel "better". Rinse, repeat, and a psychological habit is formed. No, it is not the same as a cocaine addiction, but challenging none the less (especially if the subsequent fatigue from weight gain is also treated with a sugar high).

I don't think one has to be depressed in order to get addicted to something pleasurable. Now certainly if you are depressed, then seeking out something pleasurable is perhaps an obvious response.

But you can get addicted to something pleasurable even if you aren't depressed to begin with.

I will say, though, that as you get fat, and your life choices start to get constrained by being fat, depression often follows suit, And then, food often does become one of the few reliable pleasures you can count on, and thus may become an addiction related to depression.

candylilacs

Addiction has a set of protocols, but essentially if you're hiding your eating from others because of shame or guilt, it's probably addiction.

A lot of people on here think all calories are equal ("Calories in, calories out" for weight loss) but they aren't. That's why refined sugars and processed foods are hard to quit, because they have been scientifically altered to keep people eating them. Teams of scientists work on this daily. The average sugary snack today is about 5 to 10 times sweeter than the 1950s. If you don't believe me, eat a store-bought cookie. Then make Nestle Toll House cookies and you can barely taste the sugar in them because we've been trained to have more sugar.

Fruit is a great thing. Has lots of fiber and you can eat as much as you want. It's sweet, but its sugar is more easily digestible. Same goes for honey -- because bees digest it first!

maillemaker

What do you do if you're fat? Blame sugar


It's that simple, it makes sense.

The issue lays with over consumption of calories, these people are addicted to food, not sugar.

Well of course the issue is over-consumption of calories! But the point here is that sugary (or other processed foods) are often very tasty and tempting to eat than natural foods.

Like I said, I can easily eat 1000 calories of Oreos. 1000 calories of apples? Not so much. If it was a simple food addiction, then I could eat either one with equal enthusiasm. But that's not the case.

I was fat, I ate sugary things, I lost weight whilst EATING sugary things.

Sure you can. Like the professor who lost weight eating Twinkies and other snack cakes. As long as you eat a calorie deficit, you're golden.

It's just harder to do, and takes more willpower, and you are going to be hungrier while doing it.

Fullsterkur_woman

I don't know, honestly, that it's on par with addictions like heroin and alcohol, but overuse of sugar definitely causes chemical changes in the brain in some people.

For those who are truly "in recovery" from sugar, they don't eat refined flours, and they minimize their fruit intake to about 1/4 cup of fresh fruit not more than a couple of times a day.

I had a really, really rough time getting my disordered eating under control and thought it might be due to a sugar addiction. For all I know, it still could be, but in the process of working toward detoxing from it, I decided I could not give it up, and I continue to plan it into every day and use it at least twice a day. I don't know whether that makes me someone who has learned to moderate my intake, or a high-functioning addict, but for my practical purposes, it's not really relevant. This is how I am going to live my life until such time as it doesn't work for me anymore.

I'm the one who has to live with the consequences, so what difference does it make to you what I label it?

jwdieter

Same goes for honey -- because bees digest it first!

Well, I'm sure you'll get a ton of flak for the first part, but I enjoyed this line. Completely nonsensical, but provided with enthusiasm!

ritchiedrama

What do you do if you're fat? Blame sugar


It's that simple, it makes sense.

The issue lays with over consumption of calories, these people are addicted to food, not sugar.

Well of course the issue is over-consumption of calories! But the point here is that sugary (or other processed foods) are often very tasty and tempting to eat than natural foods.

Like I said, I can easily eat 1000 calories of Oreos. 1000 calories of apples? Not so much. If it was a simple food addiction, then I could eat either one with equal enthusiasm. But that's not the case.

I was fat, I ate sugary things, I lost weight whilst EATING sugary things.

Sure you can. Like the professor who lost weight eating Twinkies and other snack cakes. As long as you eat a calorie deficit, you're golden.

It's just harder to do, and takes more willpower, and you are going to be hungrier while doing it.

I disagree PERSONALLY, about it being harder to do, and more will power? I eat plenty of fiber, and protein - I'm never hungry after 10-15 minutes of eating, I have a huge appetite and I feel hunger and can eat literally 10,000 calories in one go, but once the 10 minutes after eating has passed, any hunger I had goes away and that is with any foods I eat, even if its non sugary foods.