Intermittent fasting
Replies
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I'd never at like to say to everyone that what I said was only in my opinion and not something that should definitely be followed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I stated what I did as this is what has worked for.
You are presenting your opinions as prescriptive recommendations and you've had to walk a couple of them back. You may want to reconsider your approach and consider there are some members here with extensive experience and knowledge of nutrition and physiology.
If I have come across in that way I do apologise as it was never intended to be a you must do this. I understand that there are people with a lot of knowledge and experience, I do still stand by some of the things I have said however though I am still learning. No offence intended, I have now been made to feel like an idiot with zero knowledge so won't post on the community again. Hope you are keeping well
Please don't stop posting and please don't feel like an idiot. We're all learning here. You know what's best for you just like everyone else should know what's best for them.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.
Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.
I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.
Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.
I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.
Do you know what a ketogenic diet is? It's not all meat... vegetables are still one of the most important foods in the diet. Just not green beans, corn or peas as those are overly high in carbs. Fruit is also "allowed" on a keto diet but in very low amounts although eating the fruit itself is much better than drinking fruit juice because of the fiber the fruit contains. Also i said my meals, not snacks. Snacks are 100% protein and fats so 75% of my diet is NOT carbs. For instance 100grams of broccoli contains around 6 or 7 grams of carbs now compare that to oats 100grams of oats with 60 grams of carbs or kidney beans 100 grams with 23 grams of carbs. Grains and vegetables are not comparable for carb content.0 -
I'd never at like to say to everyone that what I said was only in my opinion and not something that should definitely be followed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I stated what I did as this is what has worked for.
You are presenting your opinions as prescriptive recommendations and you've had to walk a couple of them back. You may want to reconsider your approach and consider there are some members here with extensive experience and knowledge of nutrition and physiology.
If I have come across in that way I do apologise as it was never intended to be a you must do this. I understand that there are people with a lot of knowledge and experience, I do still stand by some of the things I have said however though I am still learning. No offence intended, I have now been made to feel like an idiot with zero knowledge so won't post on the community again. Hope you are keeping well
How you feel and what you decide to do are certainly up to you. But I am going to suggest a different approach.
You got some pretty consistent feedback based on the approach and tone of your posts. Instead of withdrawing, adjust the approach to one of making it clear you are offering opinions and why. And then be ready to consider new information as part of an ongoing growth process.
Like you, when I first came to this community lo those many years ago, I had some off kilter ideas that I had "been taught". I too received some pretty clear and direct feedback and it was not always delivered as gently and diplomatically as what you received. Some if it was downright harsh.
But, I chose to spend time researching and recognizing people who were a good source of knowledge and resources and seeking out their input. I learned a lot. Most of what I know today. I'm paraphrasing a saying I once heard. The most important things to learn are the things you learn after you thought you already knew something.
Food for thought.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.
Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.
I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.
Do you know what a ketogenic diet is? It's not all meat... vegetables are still one of the most important foods in the diet. Just not green beans, corn or peas as those are overly high in carbs. Fruit is also "allowed" on a keto diet but in very low amounts although eating the fruit itself is much better than drinking fruit juice because of the fiber the fruit contains. Also i said my meals, not snacks. Snacks are 100% protein and fats so 75% of my diet is NOT carbs. For instance 100grams of broccoli contains around 6 or 7 grams of carbs now compare that to oats 100grams of oats with 60 grams of carbs or kidney beans 100 grams with 23 grams of carbs. Grains and vegetables are not comparable for carb content.
I'm familiar with a ketogenic diet. I'm skeptical about a supposedly ketogenic diet where 75% of the calories are coming from vegetables. Snacks are part of your daily meals, so it appears that your meals aren't 75% vegetables.
Again, the claim that beans and grains are harmful for us is a bold one. I understand it may be what Jason Fung is telling people, but it's not a claim based in evidence. In actual large-scale studies, diets rich in carbohydrates from beans, grains, and vegetables have positive health associations.
I'm not arguing against a ketogenic diet. I do believe there are ways for people to meet their nutritional needs on a wide variety of dietary styles, including (most likely) a ketogenic diet. I'm addressing your claim that most carbohydrates are harmful or that people need to eat less than 50% of their calories from carbohydrates in order to lose weight. Jason Fung's ideas about "bad groups" of starches are unhelpful and inaccurate.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.
Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.
I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.
Do you know what a ketogenic diet is? It's not all meat... vegetables are still one of the most important foods in the diet. Just not green beans, corn or peas as those are overly high in carbs. Fruit is also "allowed" on a keto diet but in very low amounts although eating the fruit itself is much better than drinking fruit juice because of the fiber the fruit contains. Also i said my meals, not snacks. Snacks are 100% protein and fats so 75% of my diet is NOT carbs. For instance 100grams of broccoli contains around 6 or 7 grams of carbs now compare that to oats 100grams of oats with 60 grams of carbs or kidney beans 100 grams with 23 grams of carbs. Grains and vegetables are not comparable for carb content.
I'm familiar with a ketogenic diet. I'm skeptical about a supposedly ketogenic diet where 75% of the calories are coming from vegetables. Snacks are part of your daily meals, so it appears that your meals aren't 75% vegetables.
Again, the claim that beans and grains are harmful for us is a bold one. I understand it may be what Jason Fung is telling people, but it's not a claim based in evidence. In actual large-scale studies, diets rich in carbohydrates from beans, grains, and vegetables have positive health associations.
I'm not arguing against a ketogenic diet. I do believe there are ways for people to meet their nutritional needs on a wide variety of dietary styles, including (most likely) a ketogenic diet. I'm addressing your claim that most carbohydrates are harmful or that people need to eat less than 50% of their calories from carbohydrates in order to lose weight. Jason Fung's ideas about "bad groups" of starches are unhelpful and inaccurate.
I don't actually think you are familiar with it otherwise you'd know that vegetables are not 100% carbs... which is what you're thinking. I can turn those grams into percentage if you'd like. Those vegetables get a good soaking of organic butter, and the protein portion is about 5 or 6 oz sometimes more depending what it is, usually cooked in fat or a high fat sauce. My plate may be 75% vegetables by mass but the macro percentage is 50 or more % fats 30% protein and between 10 and 20% carbs. So yes it does work.
Dr. Jason Fung is a specialist in Toronto whom specializes in curing type 2 diabetes and obesity. He has a 90% success rate with his patients, the other 10% are patients that don't follow his protocols. Type 2 diabetes is the over abundance of insulin in your body, it then gets stored as fat. If you've ever been told you're insulin resistant you are pre diabetic. What causes your body to produce too much insulin you may ask? High carb and sugar foods such as grains, legumes and processed sugars. I was insulin resistant aka pre diabetic, I fixed my health with low carb(yes this includes vegetables), high fat and moderate protein.
I am well versed in the studies you are speaking of and everyone of them have had issues with how they're done. Dr. Fung's books touch on every one of them as well. So go read his books and come back and tell me how his real life protocols don't work and the evidence of high carbs being unhealthy for your body is wrong. Oh and maybe get some fasting and then non fasting blood work to see where your insulin levels lie after your 50% or more calories from carbs diet.0 -
With all due respect, Fung is viewed as a quack by both the medical and research communities. I've read one of his books. He comes to pretty untenable conclusions based on cherry picked evidence. Some of his recommendations are reasonably decent but he comes so some right conclusions based on mostly faulty logic.
I was also prediabetic when I was 40 lbs heavier. I lost weight. I increased exercise and did it basically eating the same diet I always had without intentionally following any of Fung's recommendations. I now have ideal blood work including BG and A1c. The whole "insulin is the devil" thing is just poor science. For the vast majority of people who are T2D or prediabetic, it is because they are overweight. They are often obese according to BMI charts. They are also often inactive and, because of those factors, they are insulin resistant.
Yes, a low carb diet can help with insulin resistance. So can weight loss and exercise and intermittent fasting. But the problem isn't the insulin, without which you would die (don't T1D's have to supplement insulin??) The problem is the obesity and sedentary lifestyle. This is where Fung's theory is off the rails.12 -
I don't actually think you are familiar with it otherwise you'd know that vegetables are not 100% carbs... which is what you're thinking. I can turn those grams into percentage if you'd like. Those vegetables get a good soaking of organic butter, and the protein portion is about 5 or 6 oz sometimes more depending what it is, usually cooked in fat or a high fat sauce. My plate may be 75% vegetables by mass but the macro percentage is 50 or more % fats 30% protein and between 10 and 20% carbs. So yes it does work.
I can believe that your plate is 75% vegetable (for meals, not snacks, as you said), especially as keto is otherwise a low volume diet, so that might not even take a particular large amount of veg, and because we don't know what percentage of your cals are from what you are calling meals vs. what you are calling snacks.
It seemed as if you were making a claim about total cals, and it was clear that was what Jane was taking issue with. For example, let's assume 1600 cals, 50% from broccoli (note: 50%, not 75%). That would require 2352 g of broccoli, and come to 95 g of net carbs.
Personally, if you are making sure your plates are 75% veg for meals and getting most of your cals from meals vs. snacks (so that 75% number is not distorted), I commend you for doing a much healthier version of keto than some do. I tried it for a while (quit because I missed fruit, found I was eating more meat than I prefer to to meet my protein goals, don't really like eating that much fat, and didn't get the point of cutting out healthy and high fiber foods like beans and lentils, but also other whole food carbs like whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, peas, etc.).
Anyway, when I did keto, I tried to keep to 35 g net carbs (about 60 total), and although I got carbs only from veg, a serving of nuts or seeds, and occasional full fat greek yogurt or cottage cheese -- I did find I had to cut out fruit -- I still was having to cut back on non starchy veg from what I normally prefer (which admittedly is a lot). However, that it wasn't for me, and wasn't, IMO, healthier than my preferred diet, does not mean it can't be a healthy way to eat and good for others.
It's just wrong to claim carbs are bad for people in general given all the evidence to the contrary.
Fung is not well-respected by most on this board, and there have been many posts explaining why.5 -
With all due respect, Fung is viewed as a quack by both the medical and research communities. I've read one of his books. He comes to pretty untenable conclusions based on cherry picked evidence. Some of his recommendations are reasonably decent but he comes so some right conclusions based on mostly faulty logic.
I was also prediabetic when I was 40 lbs heavier. I lost weight. I increased exercise and did it basically eating the same diet I always had without intentionally following any of Fung's recommendations. I now have ideal blood work including BG and A1c. The whole "insulin is the devil" thing is just poor science. For the vast majority of people who are T2D or prediabetic, it is because they are overweight. They are often obese according to BMI charts. They are also often inactive and, because of those factors, they are insulin resistant.
Yes, a low carb diet can help with insulin resistance. So can weight loss and exercise and intermittent fasting. But the problem isn't the insulin, without which you would die (don't T1D's have to supplement insulin??) The problem is the obesity and sedentary lifestyle. This is where Fung's theory is off the rails.
Just to put it into perspective einstein was once viewed as a quack 🤷♀️... so was Jesus if you're a religious person.
But you became overweight more than likely due to overeating carbs and sugars and not exercising which in turn made you pre-diabetic... the problem is OVERABUNDANCE of insulin. Not the right amount of insulin. Type 1 diabetics don't make insulin that's why it has to be PROPERLY supplemented. Type 1 diabetics on insulin can actually be both type 1 and 2... did you know that? Because if they're not taking care of what they're eating and just adding more insulin to make their blood sugar right it causes the same issues including weight gain due to an overabundance of insulin.
To each there own. I've done extensive research and my own personal findings and the findings of my fiance who is a type 2 diabetic tell me that eating high carbs including "complex carbs" like whole grains actually puts his life in jeopardy. So I'll continue to eat a diet that has been proven to significantly reduce dementia, heart disease and risk of diabetes.2 -
I don't actually think you are familiar with it otherwise you'd know that vegetables are not 100% carbs... which is what you're thinking. I can turn those grams into percentage if you'd like. Those vegetables get a good soaking of organic butter, and the protein portion is about 5 or 6 oz sometimes more depending what it is, usually cooked in fat or a high fat sauce. My plate may be 75% vegetables by mass but the macro percentage is 50 or more % fats 30% protein and between 10 and 20% carbs. So yes it does work.
I can believe that your plate is 75% vegetable (for meals, not snacks, as you said), especially as keto is otherwise a low volume diet, so that might not even take a particular large amount of veg, and because we don't know what percentage of your cals are from what you are calling meals vs. what you are calling snacks.
It seemed as if you were making a claim about total cals, and it was clear that was what Jane was taking issue with. For example, let's assume 1600 cals, 50% from broccoli (note: 50%, not 75%). That would require 2352 g of broccoli, and come to 95 g of net carbs.
Personally, if you are making sure your plates are 75% veg for meals and getting most of your cals from meals vs. snacks (so that 75% number is not distorted), I commend you for doing a much healthier version of keto than some do. I tried it for a while (quit because I missed fruit, found I was eating more meat than I prefer to to meet my protein goals, don't really like eating that much fat, and didn't get the point of cutting out healthy and high fiber foods like beans and lentils, but also other whole food carbs like whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, peas, etc.).
Anyway, when I did keto, I tried to keep to 35 g net carbs (about 60 total), and although I got carbs only from veg, a serving of nuts or seeds, and occasional full fat greek yogurt or cottage cheese -- I did find I had to cut out fruit -- I still was having to cut back on non starchy veg from what I normally prefer (which admittedly is a lot). However, that it wasn't for me, and wasn't, IMO, healthier than my preferred diet, does not mean it can't be a healthy way to eat and good for others.
It's just wrong to claim carbs are bad for people in general given all the evidence to the contrary.
Fung is not well-respected by most on this board, and there have been many posts explaining why.
I don't understand why he would be not well respected. He saved my fiance's life and many many others.
But there is literally no one diet for every person, i get that. I'm a naturalist and as such look at the foods that we would've eaten historically, my background would've been alot of animal fat and protein mixed with vegetables when able to be foraged as well as every human would've intermittent fasted. Others would've been more plant based. You have to find what works for you and what works for me is low carb and intermittent fasting combined.1 -
With all due respect, Fung is viewed as a quack by both the medical and research communities. I've read one of his books. He comes to pretty untenable conclusions based on cherry picked evidence. Some of his recommendations are reasonably decent but he comes so some right conclusions based on mostly faulty logic.
I was also prediabetic when I was 40 lbs heavier. I lost weight. I increased exercise and did it basically eating the same diet I always had without intentionally following any of Fung's recommendations. I now have ideal blood work including BG and A1c. The whole "insulin is the devil" thing is just poor science. For the vast majority of people who are T2D or prediabetic, it is because they are overweight. They are often obese according to BMI charts. They are also often inactive and, because of those factors, they are insulin resistant.
Yes, a low carb diet can help with insulin resistance. So can weight loss and exercise and intermittent fasting. But the problem isn't the insulin, without which you would die (don't T1D's have to supplement insulin??) The problem is the obesity and sedentary lifestyle. This is where Fung's theory is off the rails.
Just to put it into perspective einstein was once viewed as a quack 🤷♀️... so was Jesus if you're a religious person.
But you became overweight more than likely due to overeating carbs and sugars and not exercising which in turn made you pre-diabetic... the problem is OVERABUNDANCE of insulin. Not the right amount of insulin. Type 1 diabetics don't make insulin that's why it has to be PROPERLY supplemented. Type 1 diabetics on insulin can actually be both type 1 and 2... did you know that? Because if they're not taking care of what they're eating and just adding more insulin to make their blood sugar right it causes the same issues including weight gain due to an overabundance of insulin.
To each there own. I've done extensive research and my own personal findings and the findings of my fiance who is a type 2 diabetic tell me that eating high carbs including "complex carbs" like whole grains actually puts his life in jeopardy. So I'll continue to eat a diet that has been proven to significantly reduce dementia, heart disease and risk of diabetes.
Utter nonsense.
I got fat from an excess of calories - the vast majority good quality home cooked food.
I got slim again with a sensible calorie deficit including a lot of carbs of all kinds.
I've maintained long term extremely healthily on a high carb diet - the vast majority good home cooked food but in the right caloric quantity.
There is not one single instance of diabetes (or even pre-diabetes) in my entire family - that's how strong the genetic influences are as regards diabetes. Not even my late morbidly obese and totally sedentary sister.
What a shame you have been misled by a charlatan.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.
Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.
I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.
Do you know what a ketogenic diet is? It's not all meat... vegetables are still one of the most important foods in the diet. Just not green beans, corn or peas as those are overly high in carbs. Fruit is also "allowed" on a keto diet but in very low amounts although eating the fruit itself is much better than drinking fruit juice because of the fiber the fruit contains. Also i said my meals, not snacks. Snacks are 100% protein and fats so 75% of my diet is NOT carbs. For instance 100grams of broccoli contains around 6 or 7 grams of carbs now compare that to oats 100grams of oats with 60 grams of carbs or kidney beans 100 grams with 23 grams of carbs. Grains and vegetables are not comparable for carb content.
Do you know what the ketogenic diet is?
Fat: 75%
Protein: 20%
Carbs: 5%
Very hard to limit carbs to 5% while eating a lot of vegetables.7 -
With all due respect, Fung is viewed as a quack by both the medical and research communities. I've read one of his books. He comes to pretty untenable conclusions based on cherry picked evidence. Some of his recommendations are reasonably decent but he comes so some right conclusions based on mostly faulty logic.
I was also prediabetic when I was 40 lbs heavier. I lost weight. I increased exercise and did it basically eating the same diet I always had without intentionally following any of Fung's recommendations. I now have ideal blood work including BG and A1c. The whole "insulin is the devil" thing is just poor science. For the vast majority of people who are T2D or prediabetic, it is because they are overweight. They are often obese according to BMI charts. They are also often inactive and, because of those factors, they are insulin resistant.
Yes, a low carb diet can help with insulin resistance. So can weight loss and exercise and intermittent fasting. But the problem isn't the insulin, without which you would die (don't T1D's have to supplement insulin??) The problem is the obesity and sedentary lifestyle. This is where Fung's theory is off the rails.
Just to put it into perspective einstein was once viewed as a quack 🤷♀️... so was Jesus if you're a religious person.
But you became overweight more than likely due to overeating carbs and sugars and not exercising which in turn made you pre-diabetic... the problem is OVERABUNDANCE of insulin. Not the right amount of insulin. Type 1 diabetics don't make insulin that's why it has to be PROPERLY supplemented. Type 1 diabetics on insulin can actually be both type 1 and 2... did you know that? Because if they're not taking care of what they're eating and just adding more insulin to make their blood sugar right it causes the same issues including weight gain due to an overabundance of insulin.
To each there own. I've done extensive research and my own personal findings and the findings of my fiance who is a type 2 diabetic tell me that eating high carbs including "complex carbs" like whole grains actually puts his life in jeopardy. So I'll continue to eat a diet that has been proven to significantly reduce dementia, heart disease and risk of diabetes.
So, you have found a way to eat that works for you. Congrats. But you draw conclusions about that diet that are not well supported by research and are only your anecdotal opinions.
The rest of your post contains so many false assumptions and so much mis-information it's almost hard to know where to begin. First:But you became overweight more than likely due to overeating carbs and sugars and not exercising which in turn made you pre-diabetic...
Not true in the least. I have always eaten a fairly high protein, high fibrous vegetable diet with lots of fruit also. And relatively low carb. Around 150 grams more or less most days. It was true when I gained weight. It was true when I lost weight and it's true now in maintenance. Diet was a complete non factor other than I ate too many calories and gained weight. Those false assumptions make your line of reasoning kind of ridiculous honestly.
This entire statement is just nonsensical and demonstrates a profound lack of understanding of diabetes. A T1D produces no insulin on their own. So they couldn't possibly be both at the same time. Your understanding of insulin and it's function is completely off the rails just like your idol Fung. That it why he is universally not respected in the medical and research community.the problem is OVERABUNDANCE of insulin. Not the right amount of insulin. Type 1 diabetics don't make insulin that's why it has to be PROPERLY supplemented. Type 1 diabetics on insulin can actually be both type 1 and 2... did you know that? Because if they're not taking care of what they're eating and just adding more insulin to make their blood sugar right it causes the same issues including weight gain due to an overabundance of insulin.
You are welcome to your own beliefs and your own opinions. But you do not get to invent (or take on from disreputable sources) your own facts. But I'm sure Fung laughs all the way to the bank when people like you buy into his crackpot theories and publicizes his books for him.
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I think it was clear that it was just an opinion and people were a bit verbally attacking in the comments. Don't feel like an idiot, you were just trying to be helpful by sharing your own experience.
In any case each body processes slightly differently so issues around carbs, insulin production and obesity could mean that fasting affects us all differently. Meanwhile I am using lockdown as an opportunity to understand my own body better (and why the F it took me a month to lose 1lb!) I had to increase exercise (from zero!!) and try a keto diet to see how that impacted. It took a day fasting to kick start my own system into weight loss so I think this intermittent fasting might be something useful to explore using all the variety of tips you have all shared to find something that suits me. Good luck to you all in finding something that works for you.3 -
I do! Loving the results1
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With all due respect, Fung is viewed as a quack by both the medical and research communities. I've read one of his books. He comes to pretty untenable conclusions based on cherry picked evidence. Some of his recommendations are reasonably decent but he comes so some right conclusions based on mostly faulty logic.
I was also prediabetic when I was 40 lbs heavier. I lost weight. I increased exercise and did it basically eating the same diet I always had without intentionally following any of Fung's recommendations. I now have ideal blood work including BG and A1c. The whole "insulin is the devil" thing is just poor science. For the vast majority of people who are T2D or prediabetic, it is because they are overweight. They are often obese according to BMI charts. They are also often inactive and, because of those factors, they are insulin resistant.
Yes, a low carb diet can help with insulin resistance. So can weight loss and exercise and intermittent fasting. But the problem isn't the insulin, without which you would die (don't T1D's have to supplement insulin??) The problem is the obesity and sedentary lifestyle. This is where Fung's theory is off the rails.
Just to put it into perspective einstein was once viewed as a quack 🤷♀️... so was Jesus if you're a religious person.
But you became overweight more than likely due to overeating carbs and sugars and not exercising which in turn made you pre-diabetic... the problem is OVERABUNDANCE of insulin. Not the right amount of insulin. Type 1 diabetics don't make insulin that's why it has to be PROPERLY supplemented. Type 1 diabetics on insulin can actually be both type 1 and 2... did you know that? Because if they're not taking care of what they're eating and just adding more insulin to make their blood sugar right it causes the same issues including weight gain due to an overabundance of insulin.
To each there own. I've done extensive research and my own personal findings and the findings of my fiance who is a type 2 diabetic tell me that eating high carbs including "complex carbs" like whole grains actually puts his life in jeopardy. So I'll continue to eat a diet that has been proven to significantly reduce dementia, heart disease and risk of diabetes.
You become fat due to an overabundance of energy that your body stores so that if you are in an energy shortage due to not enough food you can use stores to prevent death. Weight is gained in an abundance and lost in a shortage. Losing weight can make a person healthier all by itself even if it is a high carb diet. You should research the "Rice Diet" which, like keto has been around for a very long time. In its original form it is not a very well rounded way of eating but it still produced many positive results including a mitigation of type 2 diabetes in some participants. Other very high carb and low fat diets have done the same.5 -
From TTPR's claims above:
Dr. Jason Fung is a specialist in Toronto whom specializes in curing type 2 diabetes and obesity. He has a 90% success rate with his patients, the other 10% are patients that don't follow his protocols. Type 2 diabetes is the over abundance of insulin in your body, it then gets stored as fat. If you've ever been told you're insulin resistant you are pre diabetic. What causes your body to produce too much insulin you may ask? High carb and sugar foods such as grains, legumes and processed sugars. I was insulin resistant aka pre diabetic, I fixed my health with low carb(yes this includes vegetables), high fat and moderate protein.
1. Insulin is a hormone and does not get stored as anything in the body - all excess body fat (from carbs, protein and dietary fat) comes from excess calories, period.
2. There is no direct correlation between what a person eats and T2D - my best friend's wife has never been overweight in her life, never eats sweets and is T2D (just as a counter to the assumption that T2D is caused by eating too many sweets).
3. The 2 greatest contributors to T2D are being obese and being sedentary. Genetics also plays a major role (see example in the previous point).6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »hey,
The biggest tip however i can give you is to make sure that with your dinner in the afternoon/evening, it consists of no lower than 50 percent carbs as they are the main source of energy your body uses and it will go to your carbs first for energy use.
I can't eat 50% carbs and lose weight. I mostly follow a ketogenic low carb, high fat and moderate protein intake diet. If you don't eat carbs then your body has no choice but to burn fat for fuel. I also believe that most carbs are the worst thing you can eat, especially when diabetes runs in my family. You should read the diabetes code and the obesity code by dr Jason Fung. It is absolutely eye opening.
I get at least 50% of my calories from carbohydrates, things like broccoli, lentils, peppers, oats, greens, black beans, and cabbage. I certainly don't think you're obligated to eat these foods if you don't want them, but I don't understand how they're the worst things I can eat. And if Jason Fung is telling people they are, then I would love to know how he is drawing that conclusion.
i said MOST carbs. But yes beans, oats and lentils are in that bad group because they are a starch. Vegetables however are not. I eat a TON of vegetables, my meals are atleast 50% to 75% vegetables. Legumes also create a inflammatory response in your body, so do all grains.
Beans and grains are heavily associated with the diets in the "blue zones," where people live longer than usual. You may choose to believe they live longer *despite* the fact that they frequently eat these foods, but there is no good indication that these foods are harmful.
I don't know what you mean by "most carbohydrates" being harmful while also eating a diet of 75% vegetables (but also somehow being ketogenic). If 75% of your calories are coming from vegetables, you're eating mostly carbohydrates.
Do you know what a ketogenic diet is? It's not all meat... vegetables are still one of the most important foods in the diet. Just not green beans, corn or peas as those are overly high in carbs. Fruit is also "allowed" on a keto diet but in very low amounts although eating the fruit itself is much better than drinking fruit juice because of the fiber the fruit contains. Also i said my meals, not snacks. Snacks are 100% protein and fats so 75% of my diet is NOT carbs. For instance 100grams of broccoli contains around 6 or 7 grams of carbs now compare that to oats 100grams of oats with 60 grams of carbs or kidney beans 100 grams with 23 grams of carbs. Grains and vegetables are not comparable for carb content.
I'm familiar with a ketogenic diet. I'm skeptical about a supposedly ketogenic diet where 75% of the calories are coming from vegetables. Snacks are part of your daily meals, so it appears that your meals aren't 75% vegetables.
Again, the claim that beans and grains are harmful for us is a bold one. I understand it may be what Jason Fung is telling people, but it's not a claim based in evidence. In actual large-scale studies, diets rich in carbohydrates from beans, grains, and vegetables have positive health associations.
I'm not arguing against a ketogenic diet. I do believe there are ways for people to meet their nutritional needs on a wide variety of dietary styles, including (most likely) a ketogenic diet. I'm addressing your claim that most carbohydrates are harmful or that people need to eat less than 50% of their calories from carbohydrates in order to lose weight. Jason Fung's ideas about "bad groups" of starches are unhelpful and inaccurate.
I don't actually think you are familiar with it otherwise you'd know that vegetables are not 100% carbs... which is what you're thinking. I can turn those grams into percentage if you'd like. Those vegetables get a good soaking of organic butter, and the protein portion is about 5 or 6 oz sometimes more depending what it is, usually cooked in fat or a high fat sauce. My plate may be 75% vegetables by mass but the macro percentage is 50 or more % fats 30% protein and between 10 and 20% carbs. So yes it does work.
Dr. Jason Fung is a specialist in Toronto whom specializes in curing type 2 diabetes and obesity. He has a 90% success rate with his patients, the other 10% are patients that don't follow his protocols. Type 2 diabetes is the over abundance of insulin in your body, it then gets stored as fat. If you've ever been told you're insulin resistant you are pre diabetic. What causes your body to produce too much insulin you may ask? High carb and sugar foods such as grains, legumes and processed sugars. I was insulin resistant aka pre diabetic, I fixed my health with low carb(yes this includes vegetables), high fat and moderate protein.
I am well versed in the studies you are speaking of and everyone of them have had issues with how they're done. Dr. Fung's books touch on every one of them as well. So go read his books and come back and tell me how his real life protocols don't work and the evidence of high carbs being unhealthy for your body is wrong. Oh and maybe get some fasting and then non fasting blood work to see where your insulin levels lie after your 50% or more calories from carbs diet.
I'm not arguing that vegetables are 100% carbohydrates. I'm saying that maintaining that carbohydrates are bad for you while also claiming that 75% of your food is vegetables is a logically untenable position, even if you are soaking the vegetables in butter before eating them.
Who reports that Fung's only failures are the patients who refuse to follow his directions? Could it be Fung himself? He's never had a patient die for reasons that aren't their own fault? Doesn't that seem awfully odd to you?
I get blood work done every year, including in a fasted state. My doctor is very impressed with my results, my cholesterol is great, and I regularly run marathons. This is with a family history of heart disease, high cholesterol, and diabetes. So maybe it's not the carbohydrates, maybe it has more to do with my regular activity and maintaining a healthy body weight?9 -
But you became overweight more than likely due to overeating carbs and sugars and not exercising which in turn made you pre-diabetic... the problem is OVERABUNDANCE of insulin. Not the right amount of insulin. Type 1 diabetics don't make insulin that's why it has to be PROPERLY supplemented. Type 1 diabetics on insulin can actually be both type 1 and 2... did you know that? Because if they're not taking care of what they're eating and just adding more insulin to make their blood sugar right it causes the same issues including weight gain due to an overabundance of insulin.
Wrong on so many counts but I will just address these:
T1Dm is an autoimmune disease where the body attacks the pancreas to where it stops producing insulin. Doctors still have to discover the trigger and why it most commonly happens during or shortly after puberty (but can even happen to someone in their 40's). The biggest risk factor is family history
T2Dm is a completely different disease in which the body either doesn't produce enough insulin, or is resistant to the insulin it does produce, thereby it cannot properly process glucose in the bloodstream. The biggest risk factor is genetics, including ethnicity. The second biggest risk factor is being overweight. A person does NOT become diabetic because of what they ate, but can if they ate too much in general.
Since T1Dm and T2Dm are completely different diseases, you cannot have both and one does not morph into the other. Even if your pancreas stops producing insulin because of chronic unmanaged T2Dm you still have T2.
People gain weight because they eat more energy than they use. It has nothing to do with how much insulin is in the bloodstream. If a person has too much insulin in their body, they will go into hypoglycemia. The confusion comes in with a condition called hyperinsulinemia which is NOT diabetes but can lead to it. It still has nothing to do with gaining weight.
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