What my doctor advised about vitamins and supplements

lauragreenbaum
lauragreenbaum Posts: 1,017 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Basically, that the only vitamin worth taking is D and that most people who take other vitamins are getting too much when combined with vitamins naturally obtained through food. As for supplements (such as glucosamine and turmeric), she said if I really feel like they make a difference, they won't hurt, but her opinion is it's a just a huge industry that makes a lot of money and not worth it.

I'm sure there are many threads on this subject, but I'm curious about current opinions. Thoughts?

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Replies

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    IIRC, there are multiple studies showing no real benefit to supplementation barring specific circumstances (addressing specific deficiencies/concerns). Keep in mind that in addition to the vitamins naturally in food, many regularly consumed foods are fortified with vitamins and we're also getting those (cereal, milk, flour, juices, etc).
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,736 Member
    I can vouch for vitamin d. I'd had oral surgery and wasn't healing as well as hoped. My oral surgeon had cases like this and had them take a supplement. Even tho my first vitamin d test came back normal, I took the supplement and had another test done a month later. It went up over 20 points (from 30 to 53) and I was healing a lot better.

    I don't know about the other stuff tho. I'm not the healthiest of eaters so I take a multivitamin. Ya never know. 😀
  • lauragreenbaum
    lauragreenbaum Posts: 1,017 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    IIRC, there are multiple studies showing no real benefit to supplementation barring specific circumstances (addressing specific deficiencies/concerns). Keep in mind that in addition to the vitamins naturally in food, many regularly consumed foods are fortified with vitamins and we're also getting those (cereal, milk, flour, juices, etc).

    What does IIRC mean?
  • Shortgirlrunning
    Shortgirlrunning Posts: 1,020 Member
    Listen to season 2 of the podcast The Dream. The whole supplement industry is pretty problematic.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited June 2020
    Doctors study so little about nutrition, it's not funny. There are some experts that argue megadosing Vitamin D can be potentially harmful.

    I do personally believe the industry would have you take way more than necessary. I'm a huge reader of anything Microbiome related. I follow the guys in the US that are the leading experts on the subject. Just saw an article the other day about how useless probiotics are. I agree. It's not the probiotics that make you healthy and you can't eat like a garbage can and take a pill -- that's what it comes down to.

    I take Vitamin K2 (very, very hard to get in the Western Diet and Vitamin K does not magically turn into enough of it to do any good) and an environmentally sustainable Fish Oil supplement (if someone were vegan there are great algal alternatives). I also take a full spectrum Methyl B vitamin. That's about all that I personally feel are necessary for me (and most people). Eat 30 different plants (fruit or vegetables) a week and get more fiber in your diet. That's one thing all the Microbiome experts agree on.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    lauragreenbaum wrote: »
    Basically, that the only vitamin worth taking is D and that most people who take other vitamins are getting too much when combined with vitamins naturally obtained through food. As for supplements (such as glucosamine and turmeric), she said if I really feel like they make a difference, they won't hurt, but her opinion is it's a just a huge industry that makes a lot of money and not worth it.

    I'm sure there are many threads on this subject, but I'm curious about current opinions. Thoughts?

    Where most vitamins are concerned, "too much" really isn't a big deal...you just pee out the excess. Vitamin D and A are vitamins that can cause harm if you have "too much". I do supplement D3 because blood work shows that I am deficient otherwise, despite spending plenty of time in the sun. I was initially on 5,000 Mg to get my numbers up and my Dr. now has me on a maintenance dose of 2,000 Mg.
  • thesame6
    thesame6 Posts: 5 Member
    I've been wondering about this for a while. I don't take vitamins regularly. Many pills are giant and something in there gives me heartburn. The gummies don't upset my stomach, but I don't really feel different or more energized. My bloodwork never indicated that I'm deficient in any particular vitamin. Perhaps I'll pick up some D next time I'm out.
  • Analog_Kid
    Analog_Kid Posts: 976 Member
    I had this very same discussion with my doctor. She said, taking a daily multi-vitamin is fine. Most people get all the vitamins and minerals they need through normal food intake. The multi-vitamin will compensate for any shortages. The body only absorbs what vitamins and minerals it needs and discards the rest.

    She also advised me against wasting money on individual vitamin and mineral supplements. Supplements are only needed if a person is diagnosed with a specific deficiency due to illness, disease, or recovering from an injury.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited June 2020
    Whatever you do, look up Vitamin D supplementation and the risk of calcification of arteries. Then look up Vitamin K2, which protects from that. If you take Vitamin D, take K2 with it. Otherwise you're just loading up your arteries with calcium.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,374 Member
    thesame6 wrote: »
    I've been wondering about this for a while. I don't take vitamins regularly. Many pills are giant and something in there gives me heartburn. The gummies don't upset my stomach, but I don't really feel different or more energized. My bloodwork never indicated that I'm deficient in any particular vitamin. Perhaps I'll pick up some D next time I'm out.

    I had this same issue when taking a multi awhile back - I switched to a better brand name vitamin and the issue went away (fillers in the generic brands were the issue for me).
  • rosegreen12
    rosegreen12 Posts: 35 Member
    My neurologist, due to symptoms seen, did a B-12 and Vit D test. I turned out deficient in both (skin is fair, burns easily so I don't go into the sun much, plus northern latitude). I'm fine on B-12 now, but both he and my reg. dr want me to keep taking 2,000 IU of Vit. D for good. I've read in numerous studies that low Vit. D is a risk factor for Covid, too.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    Whatever you do, look up Vitamin D supplementation and the risk of calcification of arteries. Then look up Vitamin K2, which protects from that. If you take Vitamin D, take K2 with it. Otherwise you're just loading up your arteries with calcium.

    Many Vit D supplements have K2 as part of the formulation. I used take them when I lived in cold, dark PA. Now here in Mexico, I just went for a 1 hour walk at mid day with my shirt off. Vitamin D loading! You can probably do the same there in AZ when it's not 120 degrees. Lol
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited June 2020
    mmapags wrote: »
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    Whatever you do, look up Vitamin D supplementation and the risk of calcification of arteries. Then look up Vitamin K2, which protects from that. If you take Vitamin D, take K2 with it. Otherwise you're just loading up your arteries with calcium.

    Many Vit D supplements have K2 as part of the formulation. I used take them when I lived in cold, dark PA. Now here in Mexico, I just went for a 1 hour walk at mid day with my shirt off. Vitamin D loading! You can probably do the same there in AZ when it's not 120 degrees. Lol

    Exactly. The best formula makers have Vit D3, K2, Magnesium and Calcium in the same formula. They all work together in synergy. Thorne and Pure Encapsulation (always ahead on science from the others) did it first and then the others are all jumping on board. Personally, if your an average American, most don't need the Calcium, just the K2, D3 (if not getting sun) and the magnesium. And a proper diet will take care of magnesium.

    Only 105 today (Tucson is 10 degrees cooler than Phoenix) but wildfire down the road burning up a mountain, so not much sun for me today, though the wife and I are going to eat tonight and dine out on a patio at sunset, so that might have to do!
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited June 2020
    I basically agree with your doctor. I supplement D3 when I remember (and not getting outside in the sun a lot). I occasionally eat 100% plant-based, and when I do I supplement B12 and EPA/DHA (in other times I eat plenty fatty fish so don't bother). From reviewing Cronometer I'm not concerned about other nutrients even though my own style of eating has few fortified foods.
  • netitheyeti
    netitheyeti Posts: 539 Member
    I took a risk and decided on my own to supplement iron 2 years ago (after having several months of super heavy periods followed by a period that lasted TWO MONTHS), and it seemed to get rid of my bruising, lack of energy, and weird food cravings... to this day I still take an iron supplement 2-3x a week and occasionally a multivitamin/mineral tablet and it seems to keep those symptoms away... I do think I get enough of other stuff through my diet tho (I'm admittedly occasionally a bit low on calcium), I was also put on b vitamins for a few months for some nerve issues I was having, tho unfortunately that didn't seem to change anything at all... water soluble ones aren't usually an issue anyway, from what I've read about it, but I wouldn't play around with just taking anything/everything

    I'd also like to emphasise my symptoms were SO strong (for iron) I was almost 100% sure it was the issue
  • LKArgh
    LKArgh Posts: 5,178 Member
    lauragreenbaum wrote: »
    Basically, that the only vitamin worth taking is D and that most people who take other vitamins are getting too much when combined with vitamins naturally obtained through food. As for supplements (such as glucosamine and turmeric), she said if I really feel like they make a difference, they won't hurt, but her opinion is it's a just a huge industry that makes a lot of money and not worth it.

    I'm sure there are many threads on this subject, but I'm curious about current opinions. Thoughts?

    It is pretty much standard dr's recommendation where I live.
  • SuzySunshine99
    SuzySunshine99 Posts: 2,989 Member
    netitheyeti wrote: »
    I took a risk and decided on my own to supplement iron 2 years ago (after having several months of super heavy periods followed by a period that lasted TWO MONTHS), and it seemed to get rid of my bruising, lack of energy, and weird food cravings... to this day I still take an iron supplement 2-3x a week and occasionally a multivitamin/mineral tablet and it seems to keep those symptoms away... I do think I get enough of other stuff through my diet tho (I'm admittedly occasionally a bit low on calcium), I was also put on b vitamins for a few months for some nerve issues I was having, tho unfortunately that didn't seem to change anything at all... water soluble ones aren't usually an issue anyway, from what I've read about it, but I wouldn't play around with just taking anything/everything

    I'd also like to emphasise my symptoms were SO strong (for iron) I was almost 100% sure it was the issue

    Couldn't you have had a blood test done to be TOTALLY sure that was the issue? Your example is an extreme one, and you were probably correct, but in general, it can be dangerous for people to supplement iron on their own, without proof of a deficiency. As you said, it's not something people should paly around with.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,877 Member
    Many people are deficient in Folate as well as calcium. These are worth taking if you can’t get them through diet. Women of child bearing age should take folic acid.

    I recently found out that I’m vitamin D deficient despite living in Sunny Southern California, and I have already been taking 200% RDV for years. My doctor now recommended taking a jumbo dose.

    I agree that most other vitamins are probably not worth taking as supplements.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,166 Member
    edited June 2020
    Lietchi wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    I had my blood tests done at the end of a wet, cold dreary March, and my Vit. D was just under the normal range (28.9 or something). The Neurologist put me on Vit D3 supplements. A week later my GP fairly strongly advised not to take them as they may complicate my existing cardiac stents, but I should work at getting more sun. Registered Dietician said I should take the Vit D, but also with K3, to help with osteoporosis. When I checked in with my Cardiologist, she became unglued at the thought of Vitamin K supplements, as that's the blood clotting vitamin, and that would definitely interfere with my cardiac stents, so hell no to the Vitamin K! And another very strong recommendation against the Vit D as well, with instructions to try to get more sun. So, now I have 2 DR's opinions that I should avoid supplements and work on getting a killer tan! :smiley: 20 minutes a day without sunscreen, and not just forearms and calves, either.

    On the topic of doctor 'madness'... I went to the doctor a few months ago saying I felt tired, so he drew blood. I was very deficient in vitamin D (16.4 with the optimal range being 30-100) but he 'didn't see anything in my blood results that could explain my fatigue'... OK...
    When I mentioned a vitamin D supplement, he suggested it wasn't necessary and it would be resolved when spring arrived with more sun exposure. When I said I avoided the sun (very fair skin) he recommended a good sun screen (well duh, but that's not going to help my vitamin D much then...?).

    So vitamin D supplements it is, and looking for a new doctor :tongue:

    I don't think either of these is "doctor madness", personally.

    It's sadly not uncommon to get to a point in one's health were strategies that will help relieve one problem will aggravate another problem. This can be true of supplements (but also of other things*), and I think that's what we're seeing in the Vitamin D/K anecdote. *For example, there are physical therapy exercises that might help one body part's problem, but aggravate a pre-existing condition for another - exercises that would be totally non-problematic for a person with neither underlying physical problem.

    I admit it can be extremely difficult to get multiple specialists, each of whom is correct for their specialty, to communicate among themselves to reach a consensus, and that can be a problem for patients.

    As far as vitamin D and fair skin: Speaking as a naturally skim-milk blue-white kind of person, very prone to sunburn, I think the amount of sun exposure needed is not necessarily in the sunburn zone, especially if one gradually builds up to it over a couple of weeks. PP mentioned 20 minutes, for example.

    I agree that your doctor's advice seems . . . unusual, based on my experience, if your D was really that low per blood test, but I didn't see the whole panel, and I'm not a doctor, so what the heck do I know.

    Did you take a D3 supplement instead? Did it help?

    FWIW: I take supplements when a doctor tells me to, unless I have reasons to believe they might be contraindicated, in which case I'd argue with him/her. I've also experimented with other supplements occasionally, after researching them quite carefully (including potential interaction with other drugs/supplements) to reassure myself that harm was unlikely. Yes, fat-soluble vitamins and minerals can be cumulatively over-dosed. I believe some water-soluble vitamins can also be acutely overdosed (i.e., bad effects from taking way too much in a short time period).

    I've actually spoken with supplement/vitamin researchers (there's a big research university in my town, with two med schools, a nursing school, and the usual sciences, so one meets such people). They don't advocate supplementing if no specific trigger to do so, but agreed that a (moderate) multivitamin probably won't hurt most people.

    For those taking multis: Check your label. Some commercial brands, at recommended dosage, are mega-dosing you (way over RDA) on certain vitamins. If yours are, are you sure that's a good idea, in your particular case?
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,803 Member
    edited June 2020
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Lietchi wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    I had my blood tests done at the end of a wet, cold dreary March, and my Vit. D was just under the normal range (28.9 or something). The Neurologist put me on Vit D3 supplements. A week later my GP fairly strongly advised not to take them as they may complicate my existing cardiac stents, but I should work at getting more sun. Registered Dietician said I should take the Vit D, but also with K3, to help with osteoporosis. When I checked in with my Cardiologist, she became unglued at the thought of Vitamin K supplements, as that's the blood clotting vitamin, and that would definitely interfere with my cardiac stents, so hell no to the Vitamin K! And another very strong recommendation against the Vit D as well, with instructions to try to get more sun. So, now I have 2 DR's opinions that I should avoid supplements and work on getting a killer tan! :smiley: 20 minutes a day without sunscreen, and not just forearms and calves, either.

    On the topic of doctor 'madness'... I went to the doctor a few months ago saying I felt tired, so he drew blood. I was very deficient in vitamin D (16.4 with the optimal range being 30-100) but he 'didn't see anything in my blood results that could explain my fatigue'... OK...
    When I mentioned a vitamin D supplement, he suggested it wasn't necessary and it would be resolved when spring arrived with more sun exposure. When I said I avoided the sun (very fair skin) he recommended a good sun screen (well duh, but that's not going to help my vitamin D much then...?).

    So vitamin D supplements it is, and looking for a new doctor :tongue:

    I don't think either of these is "doctor madness", personally.

    As far as vitamin D and fair skin: Speaking as a naturally skim-milk blue-white kind of person, very prone to sunburn, I think the amount of sun exposure needed is not necessarily in the sunburn zone, especially if one gradually builds up to it over a couple of weeks. PP mentioned 20 minutes, for example.

    I agree that your doctor's advice seems . . . unusual, based on my experience, if your D was really that low per blood test, but I didn't see the whole panel, and I'm not a doctor, so what the heck do I know.

    Did you take a D3 supplement instead? Did it help?

    Yeah, I took a few doses over the following weeks (no extreme doses) which did the trick. We were mid February and I wasn't going to spend a month or more being exhausted and waiting for sunshine.

    Something I didn't mention (to add to how I feel about this doctor) is that my BF also went to this doctor saying he felt tired. And the doctor didn't even test his vitamin D (despite my BF having had very low vitamin D in the past, even lower than mine) or any other vitamins or minerals. The only reason he did a full blood panel for me was because I said I had been (intentionally) losing weight.
    Anyhow, now that the sun is out I do try to get direct sunlight and I've cut down on the vitamin D supplements.
  • cozypearyakima
    cozypearyakima Posts: 3 Member
    For me personally, D is VERY important. As for everything else I get that through foods when eating a balanced diet. D is not really a vitamin, most of the medical community now reference it as a hormone. Two times in the last 15 years my D level has been crucially low---and they way I found that was that I was very unwell....I could not even grasp my cup of coffee, I had no strength in my hands and wrists, thought I needed Carpel Tunnel surgery ---NOPE, D level was at an 8. Got it up and felt so much better, less brain fog, more energy, and it did help with weight loss as well....then let it slide, 5 years later I was at an 11. I am currently up to 36, goal is 70-100---not sure if I can ever get there, but I will continue to respect the D!
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,736 Member
    A little more on vitamin d. This was the convo my oral surgeon and I had when he saw I was doing a bad job of healing after having...er...oral surgery:

    OS: (paraphrasing) Get your vitamin d levels checked. I've had cases of people who took a long time to heal and that was their problem.
    Me: I'm out in the sun A LOT!
    OS: Are you naked? (it wasn't as creepy as that probably sounded. At least not as creepy as the dentist who said I'd have sexy teeth after my root canal.)
    Me: Hell no. I wouldn't do that to the good people of the SFV.

    So basically, apparently, just being out in the sun doesn't always do it. :)
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited June 2020
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    I had my blood tests done at the end of a wet, cold dreary March, and my Vit. D was just under the normal range (28.9 or something). The Neurologist put me on Vit D3 supplements. A week later my GP fairly strongly advised not to take them as they may complicate my existing cardiac stents, but I should work at getting more sun. Registered Dietician said I should take the Vit D, but also with K3, to help with osteoporosis. When I checked in with my Cardiologist, she became unglued at the thought of Vitamin K supplements, as that's the blood clotting vitamin, and that would definitely interfere with my cardiac stents, so hell no to the Vitamin K! And another very strong recommendation against the Vit D as well, with instructions to try to get more sun. So, now I have 2 DR's opinions that I should avoid supplements and work on getting a killer tan! :smiley: 20 minutes a day without sunscreen, and not just forearms and calves, either.

    It's K2, not K (or K3), so perhaps your doc needs to do more research. There's nothing to indicate that K2 causes clotting, but since docs error on the side of safety, they don't like to combine it with blood thinners.

    It's not uncommon for docs not to know anything about Vitamin K2. And it does not cause blood clotting (there hasn't been any significant research on it so far but, again, they weigh on the side of safety). So I hate to tell you but she's misinformed. It's confusing, even for docs, but K2 isn't the same Vitamin as Vitamin K, though a miniscule amount of Vitamin K gets converted to K2 in the body.

    But the science of K2 is completely irrefutable. It's good both for the heart and the bones. If you're on Warfarin or other blood thinner, it's just a precaution not to take K2. K2 seems to only interfere with Warfarin but not some other blood thinners and over 50mg.

    Good article on this. Basically, this article is what I've read too. K2 is too important to ignore and warfarin can cause calcification without it. But as this article mentions, just eat some good Gouda cheese on occasion (it has K2 in it but not in megadosing that would interfere with Warfarin).

    https://innovixlabs.com/blogs/insights/vitamin-k2-and-coagulation

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