How To Start Off Wrong (from member experiences)

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Replies

  • shaf238
    shaf238 Posts: 4,022 Member
    Skipped legs
    Didn't eat properly (thought lifting weights would be enough)
    Not following a proper training program

    Those were my main faults
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    AliciaHollywood wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    AliciaHollywood wrote: »
    Doing 3-5 day water only fasts. Did absolutely nothing! EXCEPT it did make my stomach “shrink” so I was eating less after that and was extremely mindful of what I ate, eating ONLY super nutritious foods. But now I realize I can just stick to low cal super nutritious foods without a 5 day fast!

    I’m shocked that you put eating healthy food as a negative! I really enjoy eating healthy food, it makes me feel good about myself and I enjoy the taste better than all the crap a lot of people eat. Once you train yourself to eat only nutritious food, you will no longer have weight problems. I’ve never been above the lower end of ”normal” weight because of that. I’m only here to lose extra vanity pounds to get to the lowest safe weight for my height because they’ve proven that thin people who eat healthy with nutrition packed foods live longer and are less likely to get other diseases like diabetes, heart problems and even cancer (unless genetic.) There is NOTHING WRONG WITH EATING HEALTHY! This is what people should strive for!

    For many of us, the problem isn't the objective experience of eating healthy foods, it's the assigning all foods into categories of either "good" or "bad" and feeling guilty if we eat (or even want to eat) foods in the latter category.

    Nobody is saying there is anything wrong with eating healthy. The issue is feeling guilt, stress, and unhappiness when you fail to live up to how you think you "should" eat. And I will say it is personally very unhelpful and even destructive to classify what many people eat as "crap" or consider eating something that I need to "train" myself to do in order to achieve my goals (that is to say, I'm glad it's helpful for you, but it's an approach that is absolutely toxic to me).

    If you've never been outside of a normal weight range, it may be useful for you to spend some time listening to those of us who haven't been and appreciate what life might look like from that perspective.

    When you say "This is what people should strive for!", please appreciate that striving for this literally led me to binge and purge and letting go of it has led me to several years of successful weight management while eating tons of nutrient-dense foods.

    I guess you’re right. The mentality of wanting to put food you know is unhealthy into your body is foreign to me as is smoking cigarettes. I think there are other psychological reasons behind it. It’s not really about food but something else deeper. Filling a hole, a sense of comfort, relief from stress, using it as a main source of joy, distraction, eating unhealthy food because other people around you are, perhaps even unconsciously wanting to be overweight to protect oneself from unwanted sexual attention... Overeating, I believe, has as many psychological issues involved as anorexia and both can be equally dangerous and may require the help of a therapist. If you feel guilty about overeating and then purge, I think therapy or hypnotherapy is a good idea. Instead of feeling bad about what you ate, you should figure out WHY you ate it. What immediate benefit did it give you? Why did you need that benefit at that time? And you CAN train your brain to naturally crave and desire healthy food and be disgusted with dangerously unhealthy food. And I occasionally do binge, but on things like granola or home made low fat/low fat frozen yogurt (with added flaxseed meal, sunflower seeds and chia seeds) but I don’t even feel guilty because although I overdid calories, at least they weren’t unhealthy calories (except the sugar in granola, I try to get low sugar granola!) Or I get TraderJoes organic popcorn kernels and pop in the microwave with no oil, then just dribble on a little healthy extra virgin olive oil with garlic and a dash of Himalayan pink salt and other spices. You can binge on a lot of things that aren’t unhealthy and actually provide many nutrients! :) If you go over your calories with these foods once in a while, at least they are providing healthy nutrients for your body and hopefully you wouldn’t purge!

    For me, I truly enjoy eating healthy food because I research nutrition and know all the benefits these nutrients can provide. I don’t want to age prematurely. I want healthy skin and hair. I’m vain lol. I want a strong immune system. I also take extra supplements. For me it just feels good to know I’m taking care of my body as best as I can. I admit, I HATE exercise, I have some personal block against that, so it’s much easier for me to eat less than exercise. But every time I eat a piece of fruit, I really savor it, I love the taste and it feels so good to know that it is giving me health. I love veggies too! Nature is amazing. It created these things that grow on a tree or in the ground that give me all the nutrients I need so I can survive and protects me from free radicals, pollutants, and diseases! And I love spices! I add healthy spices to foods to make them even more delicious and healthy. I cut up pieces of an apple and sprinkle on cinnamon and ginger. Yum! I look at food as delicious medicine, which it ultimately is!

    I’m not saying that I NEVER eat unhealthy food, I do like the occasional pizza (extra thin crust with veggie toppings) or Thai food (spicy shrimp Pad Thai) but take half home for the next day. I’ll try a taste or two of a really interesting appetizer or special dessert at a catered event. I do drink socially, but not alone, mostly white wine or tequila, but I do like the occasional sweet drink (Baileys & Malibu!) and LOVE champagne. I know alcohol isn’t good for you, but I do keep it in moderation and never drink alone. That’s usually what makes me gain weight, food & alcohol at parties. But even then, I pay attention to what I’m eating/drinking and if I gain 5 lbs or more, I immediately try to correct it before it goes too far. But I know at catered events how to fill my plate so it’s as healthy as possible. The thing is, if I know something is really unhealthy, it literally grosses me out. I won’t even drink Diet Coke, not because of calories, but because it’s putting poison in my body. 100% fruit juice has more calories but is supplying nutrients (but still should be consumed in moderation due to high sugar.) I read all labels in the supermarket and won’t eat anything with chemicals or high fructose corn syrup. Why put poison in my body? That’s how I look at it I guess. Fried food disgusts me, I can’t even look at it without wanting to throw up. But fresh organic fruit? It just looks beautiful to me. It tastes amazing to me. And has the benefit of all those nutrients! And I do believe people can train their brains to crave healthy food and be disgusted by unhealthy food just the way people can quit smoking. Hypnotherapy can help too for both issues. Once you can divide foods into either foods that will sustain your body and provide disease fighting nutrients or foods that can literally kill you, it becomes pretty easy...

    I know that you're responding to a particular poster's comments, when you talk about the psychology of obesity or overeating. But if you've never been overweight, and have not made a long academic study of the psychology of obesity, It might be a bit of over-reach to speculate about it.

    There are many ways people try to gain a sense of control, in an universe that doesn't let us control much. Overeating is one way, sure. But overeating isn't the only way people act that out psychologically, and not everyone who overeats does so for that reason. Are you familiar with the term "orthorexia" for example?

    BTW, I'm curious: What do you consider unhealthy about shrimp pad Thai? Noodles? Sodium? The bit of sugar in many recipes for it?

    In an obesogenic enviroment (where I am convinced many of us now live), I would argue that many of us are trying to gain control over food OR actively evading thoughts about trying to gain control over it (to me, the unhealthier approach).

    These methods, IMO, are only dysfunctional if they are harming our health, damaging our relationships, or preventing us from functioning well (in other words, if they're pathological in some way).

    I don't deny that I'm trying to gain a sense of control over food (said control being well established now and most days are pretty much on auto-pilot due to years of effective strategy development).

    When I decide to not bring home crackers from the grocery store because I don't do a good job regulating my consumption of them, that's a form of control.

    When I pre-roast a bunch of vegetables on Sunday evening to get a jump start on meal prep for the week, that's a form of control.

    When I scope out the menu prior to going out to eat to pre-determine what I'm going to order, that's a form of control.

    When I say no to a glass of fruit juice because I know that eight ounces will just make me want to drink more and more, that's a form of control.

    I am not upset or bothered by the obvious observation that I'm using strategies to control and regulate my relationship with food -- I would argue that many of us have to learn to do this to having a fighting chance in this particular culture. What concerns me is the suggestion that tactics like this are inferior to other tactics that involve a different set of regulations/restrictions (which might work well for other people but would not work well for me). I think weight management is very individual and when someone says that they know something will be a trigger for them, we should generally trust them.

    I hope you don't think I disagree with anything you wrote, Jane, because I don't.

    In the post to which I replied, there was quite a laundry list of reasons people might overeat. I mentioned the control issue because I see it as a psychological thread that could pull a person in many different directions, if taken to an obsessive level - overeating, anorexia, orthorexia, possibly others.

    Of course we control what we eat in various non-obsessive ways, as well . . . and that's psychologically healthy behavior. It's hard to tell whether something is psychologically healthy vs. obsessive, without the ability to look inside someone's thinking. (And healthy vs. obsessive is only one of many possible analytic axes besides, in a context where control motivations are only one element.)

    I'm not a professional psychologist, either. 😉 Rank amateur. 😉

    Not at all, I was just (as I tend to do) springboarding off your thoughtful comments.
  • LunaTheFatCat
    LunaTheFatCat Posts: 237 Member
    edited August 2020
    Guestimating food portions/calories.
    Log all food except the sneaky snacks at night.
    Stop logging altogether once I was at target weight.
    Intermittent fasting
  • asz8777
    asz8777 Posts: 8 Member
    lgfrie wrote: »
    My list:

    1) Cheat meals - undoing an entire week of dieting in an hour.

    2) The slippery slope of perfectionism, aka "black or white" thinking.

    By which I mean:

    Going a few hundred calories over quota and thinking, "Well, the day's no longer perfectly compliant, so I'll just shoot for break even ... which entitles me to another 300 calories", which leads to eating 3 of 7 cookies in the pantry, and then "it's no longer a diet day, so I guess I'll have the last 4 cookies", which leads to "Now I'm over maintenance, I'll just restart tomorrow," which leads to eating everything in the house, which goes past midnight, which leads to waking up the next day thinking that that day too is shot because it already started badly at 12:01 am, which leads to ... 2 years later, starting all over from a much higher weight.

    Lesson I learned: If it's either diet perfection or insane binging, the diet is already dead. Gotta learn to be happy with "did fairly well today". A B+ day is still a B+ not an F.

    3) Trying to make up for overeating with excessive exercise, instead of addressing my weight issues at the source: the food that goes into my mouth.

    4) Making too big a deal about food even while successfully dieting - such as, spending hours or chunks of hours planning out and talking about the next meal - thus never breaking that obese person habit of thinking/planning/dreaming/wanting/craving/needing food constantly. Even while successfully dieting, spending the whole day thinking about the next meal, very understandable given the often-a-little-hungry nature of dieting, contains the seeds of a future diet breakdown.

    5) Keeping garbage foods in the house because "I've got everything under control; I've proven myself, so why shouldn't I have a bag of chocolate fudge cookies for when I want ONE cookie". Works great until it doesn't work. Replace with grapes LOL

    And finally ...

    6) Thinking I was "cured" of obesity behavior because I'd lost a bunch of weight. The opposite is the truth - I am an obese person by nature and if I weighed 140 pounds I'd still be one. Learning that was a huge epiphany for me. You don't suddenly get to some weight and then voila, you're a different person and don't need to log/count/self-monitor/exercise/eat carefully anymore. It's like an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink in a year thinking he isn't an alcoholic anymore so he can just go into a bar and just get a Diet Coke. All my best laid plans about counting calories, eating right, blah blah, can come unwound in 5 minutes if I forget that just having lost weight does not mean I am immune to obesity. Sit me down in an Italian restaurant, put a bottle of wine and an extra large pizza with extra cheese and pepperoni in front of me, and guess what, it's like I was never on a diet - I can revert to my true self in seconds. Constant vigilance is needed and will always be needed, forever.

    exactly that!
  • dragon_girl26
    dragon_girl26 Posts: 2,187 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    These run the range from age 16-mid 30s (when I finally began calorie counting)

    1. "Kickstart" with an all liquid diet
    2. Any kind of plan that encouraged the thinking that the day was "ruined" if I had the wrong foods or ate at the wrong time
    3. Less than 1,000 calories a day
    4. Eliminating caffeine just because I thought it would keep me from losing weight
    5. Raw veganism
    6. Extremely low fat diet
    7. Exercise as punishment
    8. IF to manage weight while ignoring calories consumed or how it fit my preferences/lifestyle
    9. Slimfast
    10. "Smoking is an appetite suppressant, right?"

    So many of these were on my list..and to add to #2, Thinking my whole diet plan was "ruined" if I ate something "bad", so I may as well just quit because I "screwed up".
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    dragon_girl26 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    These run the range from age 16-mid 30s (when I finally began calorie counting)

    1. "Kickstart" with an all liquid diet
    2. Any kind of plan that encouraged the thinking that the day was "ruined" if I had the wrong foods or ate at the wrong time
    3. Less than 1,000 calories a day
    4. Eliminating caffeine just because I thought it would keep me from losing weight
    5. Raw veganism
    6. Extremely low fat diet
    7. Exercise as punishment
    8. IF to manage weight while ignoring calories consumed or how it fit my preferences/lifestyle
    9. Slimfast
    10. "Smoking is an appetite suppressant, right?"

    So many of these were on my list..and to add to #2, Thinking my whole diet plan was "ruined" if I ate something "bad", so I may as well just quit because I "screwed up".

    Yep, that was me for so long. Telling myself I'd have no cookies (or whatever), have a single cookie, and then eat the rest of the bag because I'd already destroyed my entire diet. :#
  • lgfrie
    lgfrie Posts: 1,449 Member
    4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
    I am going to be a bad mod and mildly bash the MFP system:

    For me, the NEAT system MFP is based off of really doesn't work well for me. I end up hyper-fixated on calories and exercise burns and end up missing my goal (or just throwing it out the window) when its a constantly moving target. A TDEE system works way better for my brain, especially if I go the extra step and prelog a bit, I guess I need the consistency and to make myself let go of the numbers a bit. I do love MFP for the logging capabilities and forums, but I don't really use it "as intended" anymore.

    As a premium member, I get my choice of NEAT or TDEE (in MFP-ese, I can choose to have or not to have the exercise calories added to my food calorie quota for the day). I started with NEAT but switched to TDEE and never looked back. I much prefer having a consistent daily calorie target to work towards. It's always the same, I know what tomorrow's quota will be, and I can plan my meals accordingly. However, I do get that NEAT+exercise works very well for many people, and I did that for months.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
    I am going to be a bad mod and mildly bash the MFP system:

    For me, the NEAT system MFP is based off of really doesn't work well for me. I end up hyper-fixated on calories and exercise burns and end up missing my goal (or just throwing it out the window) when its a constantly moving target. A TDEE system works way better for my brain, especially if I go the extra step and prelog a bit, I guess I need the consistency and to make myself let go of the numbers a bit. I do love MFP for the logging capabilities and forums, but I don't really use it "as intended" anymore.

    I hate the NEAT system. I am using it currently because at the moment it is a better way to manage myself.

    For most of my weight loss - most of 2 years and in excess of 250 pounds - I have used my spreadsheet to determine TDEE and updated MFP as needed.

    I miss TDEE and the consistent calorie count. It was SO much easier and I rarely had remnant calories that had to be eaten unless I made a logging error that created a positive balance. With my activity level being higher now and my fat stores being lower I can't get away with banking as much as I could before. There was a time I never cared if I left 400 more calories uneaten until the next day. Now single day steep deficits can leave me wiped out. I have to be so careful because I do not eat too close to bed for fear of acid reflux.

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,223 Member
    edited August 2020
    lgfrie wrote: »
    I find it really interesting, the posts about the psychology of obesity - i.e. that people overeat due to various existential issues in their lives, emptiness, lack of control, needing to assert control, etc.

    Lost in all that is a subset of people I feel I belong to - people who don't have existential issues in their lives. I mean, I'm pretty happy, content, relaxed, I'm where I want to be on this giant orb. I wasn't overeating to fill holes in my life or to assert control or because of feelings of helplessness or anything like that.

    (much good analysis snipped by reply-er, for length)

    I don't think you need to be empty, hopeless, anxious, despondent, or anything else to become obese. You just have to be someone who's had difficulty giving up short-term rewards for a long-term goal. Hopefully you find a system or approach that makes it easier to do so, and that's where diets come in. No wonder it's a 10's of billion dollar industry. You can be a perfectly normal, well adjusted person and still end up 100 or 150 pounds overweight. Easily.

    @lgfrie, though we differ dramatically in other ways, this is how I feel, too. Not emotionally fraught in any signficant way when it comes to food, just find that it's pleasurable, and will overeat. The "be nice to future self" idea is part of my current buy-in to maintaining.

    One thing I tnink is weird: So often, people here say things like "you have a budget for your money, why wouldn't you have one for your calories"? I can do fine with "intuitive spending" (have almost never had any kind of formal budget, and disaster has never occurred - quite the reverse, despite not being remotely wealthy). But "intuitive eating"? That's a train wreck, for me. If I don't have a calorie budget, I *will* gain weight, to a low-obese level (based on history), where I pretty much stabilize.
    4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »
    I am going to be a bad mod and mildly bash the MFP system:

    For me, the NEAT system MFP is based off of really doesn't work well for me. I end up hyper-fixated on calories and exercise burns and end up missing my goal (or just throwing it out the window) when its a constantly moving target. A TDEE system works way better for my brain, especially if I go the extra step and prelog a bit, I guess I need the consistency and to make myself let go of the numbers a bit. I do love MFP for the logging capabilities and forums, but I don't really use it "as intended" anymore.

    I can see how that works, for some people.

    Me, I loveLoveLOVE the NEAT system. I think it's part of what made weight loss this time manageable and sensible for me.

    My exercise is seasonally variable, and (in Winter especially), I go through phases where I don't work out much at all, comparatively speaking. It completely works well for me to add exercise separately. I can maintain or lose pretty easily, with or without exercise, and I really appreciate how the NEAT system makes it easy and straightforward. I'm pretty sure I could maintain or lose in general on a TDEE system if I had to, but it would be annoying as a practical matter, and much more stressful - there would be more/wilder fluctuations and guessing, for me . . . and my fluctuations are pretty big already, from combining calorie banking with occasional indulgent eating.
  • New_Heavens_Earth
    New_Heavens_Earth Posts: 610 Member
    Geneveremfp wrote: »
    Really interesting thread.

    For me the problem was believing all of that rubbish about intuitive eating. Like it was a moral failing that I didn't just know how to just eat healthy foods and be the right weight. For me I've been obese since I was about 9 and had significant patches of anorexic behaviour during my teenage years so I don't have normal hunger or satiation responses. People who haven't been through that just don't get it. You see a lot on here where people are getting back to a healthy weight. For me (and I'm sure others) when I first reached normal weight it was the first time in my memory I'd ever been there. I had to learn how to eat from a completely different base. It lead me to regain when I became pregnant and stopped logging because I had been finding logging so easy surely that meant I was now an intuitive eater.

    The feeling at the beginning that I should be able to just intuitively eat and that I clearly just didn't understand food if I didn't (for the record my diet has been very healthy whilst I still put weight on) lead to binges and restrictions.

    Another thing was that I believed that if I solved my emotional worries I'd find everything easy. Actually being happier was a huge thing and helped me to have the energy to motivate etc. However it didn't solve the fact that it takes a huge amount of food for me to feel too full. It doesn't solve the fact that I can eat tiny amounts and not really feel very hungry. I need to count calories to both eat enough and to not eat too much. But that's OK.

    Something I was told about IE was that it did not guarantee weight loss or a desired weight. Pretty much IE is you eat without judgement or restrictions according to hunger and satiety signals (which take time to regulate), and your weight will sort out at its natural set point. Along my journey those set points were much higher than I desired, which implies some level of reduction in intake is necessary for me to achieve and maintain a healthy weight.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,374 Member
    lgfrie wrote: »
    New_Heavens_Earth wrote: »
    Something I was told about IE was that it did not guarantee weight loss or a desired weight. Pretty much IE is you eat without judgement or restrictions according to hunger and satiety signals (which take time to regulate), and your weight will sort out at its natural set point. Along my journey those set points were much higher than I desired, which implies some level of reduction in intake is necessary for me to achieve and maintain a healthy weight.

    I had the very worst dieting experience of my entire life with Intuitive Eating, the "don't count calories, just listen to your body" thing. I not only gained weight while doing IE, but gained much more weight when I stopped doing it. It was an unmitigated disaster.

    I try to be as non-judgmental as possible about diet strategies. I mean, the low carb thing seems pointless to me unless you have blood sugar issues or dislike carbs, but who am I to judge? Lots and lots of people lose weight doing low carb, keto, grapefruit diets, Meditteranean, Weight Watchers, whatever. In the end, these are all just tools to help you exert control over your urge to eat. Every diet out there works for someone. Calorie counting works best for many but in the end it's just another way to get you not to put that next donut in your mouth, right?

    BUT ... I really find it hard to be non-judgmental about intuitive eating. At least insofar as it's hoisted onto obese people as a panacea (not having been Normal BMI in 35 years I can't speak to IE's usefulness for fit people). So anyway, here we have obese people. People who, by definition, have not been able to eat the right amount of food - for whatever reason, anxiety, depression, bad habits, low self esteem, or because food tastes really really good LOL Whatever the reason, an obese person is a person who has not been - possibly for their entire lives - "full" or "satisfied" with a maintenance level of calories; if they were, they wouldn't be obese. I know that in my case, "fully satisfied" for a full day, as in "I don't want any more food, and even if it was sitting in front of me, I probably wouldn't eat any more of it" requires around 3,500-4,000 calories. I am NEVER fully satisfied either at my diet quota or at my maintenance calories. I tolerate it, feel reasonably sated a decent amount of the time, hungry some other times, and that's the best I can do. It's hard for me to imagine, though possible, that other obese people feel differently. The whole nature of obesity is that obese people are people who haven't been satisfied at maintenance calories; otherwise they wouldn't be obese.

    Why would anything think an obese person with a lifetime of overeating can just "listen to his body"? When I listen to my body here's what it says: FEED ME, NOW. It says that often, and sometimes loudly. For me, dieting is the process of learning to ignore what it's saying and developing the mental habits and toolkit to cotinue doing so. My goal is to ignore my annoyingly cloying, ravenous, food-greedy inner voice so I can get to and remain a healthy weight.

    I'll stick with calorie counting.

    This is me in a nutshell... I eat because food tastes good, so more is better! My intuitive eating (listening to my body signals) puts me somewhere between 265 and 275 on the scale... only problem is that I'm 5'8" so that weight really, really doesn't work for me. The only way I can keep this in check is to count and be very aware of what and how much I am eating.

    To take this back to the original topic:

    1. Lack of patience
    2. Lack of consistency
    3. Lack of direction

    Those are the 3 biggest mistakes that I made in starting the journey.
  • deepsea117
    deepsea117 Posts: 30 Member
    Diet:
    1. I totally underestimated how important moderation is.
    2. I didn't read nutrition labels.
    3. I didn't track what I ate on MFP
    4. I didn't start by figuring out my RMR, and just used the standard:
    2000 calories - whatever = Weight loss
    5. I overloaded on proteins, thinking my body would absorb everything from a 6-oz steak in one sitting.
    6. I'd start off meals with bread at a restaurant, when I was hungry. Sugar-spike!
    7. I didn't realize there's a proper way to eat your food. The timing, and the order of it.
    8. Didn't realize I could get fit from just bodyweight exercises and resistance bands till quarantine.
    9. Didn't realize walking everywhere witha heavy backpack was actually making me stronger.
    10. Didnt realize I could be under 200lbs again (I'm 5'11".)
  • pink_mint
    pink_mint Posts: 103 Member
    1. Going back and forth between torture and free-for-all with food.

    2. Thinking there must be some totally deprivation -free way to lose weight.

    3. Keto. It "worked" but it is just not sustainable. I cannot live the rest of my entire life like that and as soon as I reintroduced carbs I blew up.

    4. Intuitive eating. My "set point" must be morbidly obese because intuitive eating was simply a means to rapid and out of control weight gain.

    5. Believing there was some secret trick to weight loss. Like solving a Rubiks cube.

    6. Thinking there's just something wrong with me physically and I might as well not bother.

    7. Impatience.

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