Design a Machine-Focused Strength Routine
zamphir66
Posts: 582 Member
I've just joined a new gym and this morning taken inventory of what's available for strength.
Army-Chesty things:
Leggy things:
Other:
I also have a squat rack, a smith machine, some benches, and plenty of dumbells. There's a polygonal bar-type thing I believe is for various kinds of OH press. The one thing you can't do there is deadlifts.
So, would anyone care to take a stab at suggesting a reasonable routine? I can be there 4 days a week.
Another thing: I'm 40 now, and I know that creates some extra challenges. I do try to get 8 hours of sleep, and I also aim for at least 100g of protein a day. Is there anything else I could be doing to maximize the results of my work?
Thank You!
Army-Chesty things:
- Bicep Curl
- Preacher Curl
- Tricep Extension
- OH Press
- Vertical Chest
- Incline Press
- Lat Pulldown (2 of these -- one allows for various attachments)
- Rear Delt/Pec Fly (2 motions, 1 machine)
- Compound Row
Leggy things:
- Leg Extension
- Seated Calf
- Hip Abduction/Adduction (2 in 1)
- Leg Press
- Prone Leg Curl
Other:
- Abdominal
- Lower Back
- Gravitron (dip/pullup machine with counterweights)
I also have a squat rack, a smith machine, some benches, and plenty of dumbells. There's a polygonal bar-type thing I believe is for various kinds of OH press. The one thing you can't do there is deadlifts.
So, would anyone care to take a stab at suggesting a reasonable routine? I can be there 4 days a week.
Another thing: I'm 40 now, and I know that creates some extra challenges. I do try to get 8 hours of sleep, and I also aim for at least 100g of protein a day. Is there anything else I could be doing to maximize the results of my work?
Thank You!
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Replies
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Being 40 doesn't change anything. The recipe is the same for everyone. Find enough stimulus at a appropriate intensity that is will allow you to recover enough to train for your next session and progress towards short and long term goals.
I would suggest strength training 3 days and doing a GPP day for the fourth.
While I do write programming for individuals as a professional, I don't feel anything specific would be appropriate without knowing your training and health history.
Generally speaking using main lifts and variations.
Squat 3 per week
DL variation 1-2 per week
Press 3-4 per week
Row would be good once a week
GPP day would be filled with individual needs and lean towards preferences.
Once again this is very generic because your info is not detailed.
You might seek a cookie cutter program that has the equipment available to you if you are unsure. It would suit you fine for a few months in most cases.
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While I do write programming for individuals as a professional, I don't feel anything specific would be appropriate without knowing your training and health history.
Cardio-wise, if it matters, I can run 5K pretty comfortably. And that's really all I want there.
Experience and Strength-wise, I've done the SL 5x5 program a couple of times in the past, but at some point I get stuck/frustrated/bored and give up. And it seemed like having all the equipment in my home actually made it easier to quit. I think paying for the gym membership is more motivating, for me. At any rate, we could safely say I'm starting at 0 again.
Body-wise, I'm at the very top end of normal weight for my size, but am decidedly skinny-fat. I'm "small-boned" so I really would look better about 10 or 15 lbs lighter, which is my goal to reach over the next 4 months or so.
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Very good advice above. Main lifts with compound movements will go a long way to help you reach your goal. I'm an older dude and started lifting 2+ years ago. The key is really honing in on your personal goals, whether to get leaner and stronger, feel healthier, etc. The key in my experience is consistency. Consistency in logging your food, workouts, sleep, etc. And you'll need a healthy dose of patience. I still consider myself a novice and this a lifetime journey for me. I wish I would have started years ago. One more thing, it's no crime to start with lighter weights to ensure full range of motion with the lifts. Once you get comfortable with the movements, you can begin to ramp the weight and intensity of your workouts. Good luck!1
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Absolutely fine.
That is because SL is a LP program that will always result in being "stuck". It is only written to be ran maybe s few months. Performing it any more and to continue to deload is really a waste of time. When people fail to see progress and don't change, we often see someone "giving up". Switch to appropriate programming and I'd hazard you will adhere.Experience and Strength-wise, I've done the SL 5x5 program a couple of times in the past, but at some point I get stuck/frustrated/bored and give up. And it seemed like having all the equipment in my home actually made it easier to quit. I think paying for the gym membership is more motivating, for me. At any rate, we could safely say I'm starting at 0 again.
There really isn't a "normal weight". There are things such as BMI that are tools that "might" help start the process, but surely not anything that should be used by itself. My daughter at age two was bigger than the average six year old. When the doctor used a chart relative to her height, she was well within normal.Body-wise, I'm at the very top end of normal weight for my size, but am decidedly skinny-fat. I'm "small-boned" so I really would look better about 10 or 15 lbs lighter, which is my goal to reach over the next 4 months or so.
No such thing as "small boned". Made up term and has been proven through evidence.
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Why can't you do deadlifts if there's a squat rack and bar?0
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That is because SL is a LP program that will always result in being "stuck". It is only written to be ran maybe s few months. Performing it any more and to continue to deload is really a waste of time. When people fail to see progress and don't change, we often see someone "giving up". Switch to appropriate programming and I'd hazard you will adhere.
I definitely need the structure of a gym and maybe even a PT when I reach that point again. I knew I needed to change something up but I was overwhelmed with options and opinions.There really isn't a "normal weight". There are things such as BMI that are tools that "might" help start the process, but surely not anything that should be used by itself. My daughter at age two was bigger than the average six year old. When the doctor used a chart relative to her height, she was well within normal.
Of course you're right about BMI, so then I went looking for "comparables" from the world of sport to get examples of my ideal physique. Football is no good because the only guys my height are running backs, and they're generally 200+ pound tanks. Basketball there just aren't many examples at all for 68 inches. But MMA --> It's a sport I enjoy and I think the level of all-around strength and conditioning they have is just about what I'm interested in. Like this fella here: Matt Schnell.
However, being 125 lbs at 68 inches probably means a body fat percentage lower than I want, and requiring more discipline than I actually want to commit.
Maybe a better example could be Eddie Aalvarez, who is an inch taller than me but about 10 lbs lighter.
Overall, it looks like the Featherweight (145 lbs) or Lightweight (155 lbs) weight classes would be where I want to land, ideally.No such thing as "small boned". Made up term and has been proven through evidence.
Mostly a joke on the "big-boned" concept.
(I don't know why the quote button is grabbing things you apparently deleted/edited.)0 -
SnifterPug wrote: »Why can't you do deadlifts if there's a squat rack and bar?
Don't you need a platform? It's just bare floor/concrete.0 -
SnifterPug wrote: »Why can't you do deadlifts if there's a squat rack and bar?
Don't you need a platform? It's just bare floor/concrete.
No, the platform is so you don’t damage the floor. I have a platform for deadlifts in my gym basement but did not have one when I had a gym membership. What made you think a platform was required for deadlifts?0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »SnifterPug wrote: »Why can't you do deadlifts if there's a squat rack and bar?
Don't you need a platform? It's just bare floor/concrete.
No, the platform is so you don’t damage the floor. I have a platform for deadlifts in my gym basement but did not have one when I had a gym membership. What made you think a platform was required for deadlifts?
My previous gym has a platform for every power rack. I just assumed.0 -
Nope, none of the commercial gyms around me have them. I have stall mats for my gym flooring at home and I wouldn’t damage the floor with what I’m currently able to lift (unless I actually dropped the weight) but my husband lifts much heavier, so he built himself a platform out of plywood and some more stall mats.
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@Chieflrg So my plan now is to just start back on Day One with SL 5x5 and see how far that takes me. When you start the app from scratch, you get that note telling you, "in 12 weeks, you'll do squats of 220 and deads of 265." And from my own experience, that's not really accurate. Maybe I just need to eat and sleep better?
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@Chieflrg So my plan now is to just start back on Day One with SL 5x5 and see how far that takes me. When you start the app from scratch, you get that note telling you, "in 12 weeks, you'll do squats of 220 and deads of 265." And from my own experience, that's not really accurate. Maybe I just need to eat and sleep better?
You need to pick an accurate starting weight for each lift. Start low so that you have room to progress.0 -
@Chieflrg So my plan now is to just start back on Day One with SL 5x5 and see how far that takes me. When you start the app from scratch, you get that note telling you, "in 12 weeks, you'll do squats of 220 and deads of 265." And from my own experience, that's not really accurate. Maybe I just need to eat and sleep better?
You need to pick an accurate starting weight for each lift. Start low so that you have room to progress.
I'm starting with the empty bar. Except for deadlift of course.0 -
@Chieflrg So my plan now is to just start back on Day One with SL 5x5 and see how far that takes me. When you start the app from scratch, you get that note telling you, "in 12 weeks, you'll do squats of 220 and deads of 265." And from my own experience, that's not really accurate. Maybe I just need to eat and sleep better?
I want to give some free advice and I promise you if you listen you'll be better off.
If you plan on doing SL...
1. Perform only 3 sets per lift
2. Start with a more appropriate weight. Using only the barbell really doesn't do anything for you.
I will be will ing to donate my time and help you pick a appropriate weight if you send me videos.
If you choose to run as written, I I wish you luck 👍1 -
@Chieflrg So my plan now is to just start back on Day One with SL 5x5 and see how far that takes me. When you start the app from scratch, you get that note telling you, "in 12 weeks, you'll do squats of 220 and deads of 265." And from my own experience, that's not really accurate. Maybe I just need to eat and sleep better?
I want to give some free advice and I promise you if you listen you'll be better off.
If you plan on doing SL...
1. Perform only 3 sets per lift
2. Start with a more appropriate weight. Using only the barbell really doesn't do anything for you.
I will be will ing to donate my time and help you pick a appropriate weight if you send me videos.
If you choose to run as written, I I wish you luck 👍
For some people the barbell alone as a starting point is more than adequate since the barbell weighs 45 lbs.
You start where you need to start in order to be able to lift with proper form. If you can only do 4-5 reps with 45 lbs, then that’s where you start.
If the gym has a SSB, that weighs 65 lbs. So you would be doing squats with 65lbs.
If you do curls, an Olympic curl bar is 30 lbs.
A blanket statement that the barbell alone won’t do anything for someone is not accurate for everyone and based on THIS persons given info, can’t be assessed either way.
OP: if doing just the barbell is easy for you (say 10 reps or more easy) then you should definitely increase the weight. It’s going to take some trial and error to determine what the appropriate weight to lift is for you.1 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »@Chieflrg So my plan now is to just start back on Day One with SL 5x5 and see how far that takes me. When you start the app from scratch, you get that note telling you, "in 12 weeks, you'll do squats of 220 and deads of 265." And from my own experience, that's not really accurate. Maybe I just need to eat and sleep better?
I want to give some free advice and I promise you if you listen you'll be better off.
If you plan on doing SL...
1. Perform only 3 sets per lift
2. Start with a more appropriate weight. Using only the barbell really doesn't do anything for you.
I will be will ing to donate my time and help you pick a appropriate weight if you send me videos.
If you choose to run as written, I I wish you luck 👍
For some people the barbell alone as a starting point is more than adequate since the barbell weighs 45 lbs.
You start where you need to start in order to be able to lift with proper form. If you can only do 4-5 reps with 45 lbs, then that’s where you start.
If the gym has a SSB, that weighs 65 lbs. So you would be doing squats with 65lbs.
If you do curls, an Olympic curl bar is 30 lbs.
A blanket statement that the barbell alone won’t do anything for someone is not accurate for everyone and based on THIS persons given info, can’t be assessed either way.
OP: if doing just the barbell is easy for you (say 10 reps or more easy) then you should definitely increase the weight. It’s going to take some trial and error to determine what the appropriate weight to lift is for you.
Agreed, though my advice wasn't for "some people" or "generally speaking/blanket" but rather than direct advice to a individual who has experience with SL spevifically and no indication that a standard 20kg was inappropriate weight.
My statement was use to use appropriate weight regardless.
So if a 20kg is inappropriate, then we find a weight that is.
Hence why I offered my services pro bono to help determine appropriate weight to the OP specifically and not everyone who wants to run SL as a blanket statement.
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I want to give some free advice and I promise you if you listen you'll be better off.
If you plan on doing SL...
1. Perform only 3 sets per lift
2. Start with a more appropriate weight. Using only the barbell really doesn't do anything for you.
I will be will ing to donate my time and help you pick a appropriate weight if you send me videos.
If you choose to run as written, I I wish you luck 👍
So I took some video this morning, but will need to figure out the best/easiest way to upload and share it. Private YouTube video?
But I can tell you this: The "perceived effort" of a 45-lb squat is about a 5 or 6, however, it's been so long since I've done the program that I really feel there's value in getting my form good before the effort goes up. My amateur opinion.
Bench press: 45 lbs feels right. It's a good bit more effort than the squat.
Row: same as bench.
Those were today's exercises.
I do know that a 95-lb deadlift is going to feel relatively easy, but again, I wonder if that's what I want right now.
And now for my personal Everest: the overhead press. I can tell you that I fail on this exercise almost instantly. 55 lbs and I'm starting to cheat (wiggling my lower body). I absolutely need to figure out some assistance tricks to get my shoulders/back/whatever more able to handle progression there.
Finally, 'member the guy who refused to add the 45-lb weight of the bar into his lift, so he'd say things like, "I lifted 10 x 2"? What happened to him?
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Just a suggestion upload the YouTube and post here. It might help others to see along with my advice/reasoning on the intensity.
If you rather not, you can use YT, or IG for ease of me viewing. I prefer IG because I can zoom in on vid to view for a better assessment.
Getting form good is subjective and often overblown.
Getting technique down comes from appropriate weight that challenges with reps. This can be difficult for most people to access, but under a trained eye not so much.
I've literally had lifters that had some of the most raw looking squats ever and I only put very minut limitations on them early on but dosed the correct intensity and within a few weeks had the most pleasing looking squat most have seen.0 -
Getting your form good is to avoid injury, target the right muscle groups, etc so NOT overblown. I’m disturbed by someone who refers to themself as an “expert” saying something like that.
OP I recommend seeking an actual expert to speak with if you want assistance on form/appropriate weight.0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Getting your form good is to avoid injury, target the right muscle groups, etc so NOT overblown. I’m disturbed by someone who refers to themself as an “expert” saying something like that.
OP I recommend seeking an actual expert to speak with if you want assistance on form/appropriate weight.
One I am not an "expert" & I have no problem with somebody that questions me. Its good to research evidence. I do have 40+ years of lifting experience and decades of coaching to draw from which is useful even if you wouldn't deem so.
There is zero evidence that form has anything to do with injury(outside of trama) by itself. Please state source of evidence for your claim.
Current evidence suggests that proper load management can lower injury risk. There is no "avoid injury". Injuries are guaranteed to take place. We cannot prevent or avoid it. We can lower injury risk. That is done with proper load management.
There isn't a universal definition of "form". Thinking that a movement(outside of trama) in itself can cause a injury is dangerous in itself. Please define "form" that is universal.
I'm also curious why you feel a movement is dangerous. Please educate us. I'm sincerely curious if any new evidence has suggested this.0 -
One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.
No I asked for evidence backed by science not an article for someone promotingg their product.
BTW, my knees have been past my toes for 40+ years because I have extremely long femurss. No injuries to my knees, they haven't exploded. This while deadlifting power lifting records with a progressive joint disease.
Please state form that is universal that includes every body type.
You might want to look at tell every strongman and stringwoman that when they deaflift a atlas stone with a rounded back to stop.1 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.
No I asked for evidence backed by science not an article for someone promotingg their product.
BTW, my knees have been past my toes for 40+ years because I have extremely long femurss. No injuries to my knees, they haven't exploded. This while deadlifting power lifting records with a progressive joint disease.
Please state form that is universal that includes every body type.
I don’t have time for people who don’t understand basic body mechanics. As I said, some things, like a rounded back causing an injury are common sense. I can’t help that you don’t understand that.
OP find an actual professional. This guy was offering “pro bono” services AS IF they are a pro and then it says “I never said I was an expert”. Offering to assist someone pro bono implies that you normally charge for the service. If you aren’t an expert, you shouldn’t charge anyone a dime ever.
Bye bye0 -
Perhaps you don't understand evidence. Just because you have a slipped disc doesn't equate it from a movement. Most people in their 40s have evidence via MRI of a slipped disc and never knew it.
Please define poor form that is universal.0 -
OP and anyone else who has questions about form might want to check out the untamed strength videos on YouTube. There are some fantastic videos regarding deadlift and squat form in particular.
Best of luck!0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Dogmom1978 wrote: »One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.
No I asked for evidence backed by science not an article for someone promotingg their product.
BTW, my knees have been past my toes for 40+ years because I have extremely long femurss. No injuries to my knees, they haven't exploded. This while deadlifting power lifting records with a progressive joint disease.
Please state form that is universal that includes every body type.
I don’t have time for people who don’t understand basic body mechanics. As I said, some things, like a rounded back causing an injury are common sense. I can’t help that you don’t understand that.
OP find an actual professional. This guy was offering “pro bono” services AS IF they are a pro and then it says “I never said I was an expert”. Offering to assist someone pro bono implies that you normally charge for the service. If you aren’t an expert, you shouldn’t charge anyone a dime ever.
Bye bye
No you said a rounded back will cause injury and yet there's no evidence you have stated that proves that.
It's absolutely anatomically impossible to have a flat back.
Every competitor that is near maximalist will have. Some rounding in their back are you suggesting that every competitor has had an injury due to that?
Are you suggesting every strong man that strong men has experienced injury because they deadliftd an atlas stone with a severe rounded back?
Just because someone's a professional doesn't mean they deem themselves an expert .Dogmom1978 wrote: »OP and anyone else who has questions about form might want to check out the untamed strength videos on YouTube. There are some fantastic videos regarding deadlift and squat form in particular.
Best of luck!
Also if you talk to Alan he follows my line of thinking. Perhaps you want to ask the doctors at Barbellmedicine that Alan is part of. You will get the exact same answers I have given.
There is much to be learned if you open your mind and stop believing articles and read evidence.
Good luck.0 -
Keep disagreeing.
You stating you will slip a disc from deadlifting is unfounded.
Alan has learned a lot from his former coach Dr Buraki as have I.
Here is a video when it started he started to really educate himself.
Fast forward to 4:45. Where he states slip disc dont happen because of deadlifting. Also not to be afraid of movement.
He also states at very end of video, nothing prevents a back injury.
Btw Alan has resigned his old way of thinking on form. He has stated this many many times. He believes in proper load management as well. Perhaps you should research his current thinking that is backed by the exact same evidence I read.
https://youtu.be/riq-DfDDimc 1 -
Iron Culture did a show on pain science in 2019. They covered the intersection of form and injury risk with a panel of experts in the field starting at 1:41:47.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-S8nThxpqY&t=6107s
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Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.1
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Iron Culture did a show on pain science in 2019. They covered the intersection of form and injury risk with a panel of experts in the field starting at 1:41:47.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-S8nThxpqY&t=6107s
Ty for posting. Pain science is a overlooked component of what do.
So much conversation based on real evidence debunking the thought of bad form=injury.0
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