Design a Machine-Focused Strength Routine
Replies
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One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.
No I asked for evidence backed by science not an article for someone promotingg their product.
BTW, my knees have been past my toes for 40+ years because I have extremely long femurss. No injuries to my knees, they haven't exploded. This while deadlifting power lifting records with a progressive joint disease.
Please state form that is universal that includes every body type.
You might want to look at tell every strongman and stringwoman that when they deaflift a atlas stone with a rounded back to stop.1 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.
No I asked for evidence backed by science not an article for someone promotingg their product.
BTW, my knees have been past my toes for 40+ years because I have extremely long femurss. No injuries to my knees, they haven't exploded. This while deadlifting power lifting records with a progressive joint disease.
Please state form that is universal that includes every body type.
I don’t have time for people who don’t understand basic body mechanics. As I said, some things, like a rounded back causing an injury are common sense. I can’t help that you don’t understand that.
OP find an actual professional. This guy was offering “pro bono” services AS IF they are a pro and then it says “I never said I was an expert”. Offering to assist someone pro bono implies that you normally charge for the service. If you aren’t an expert, you shouldn’t charge anyone a dime ever.
Bye bye0 -
Perhaps you don't understand evidence. Just because you have a slipped disc doesn't equate it from a movement. Most people in their 40s have evidence via MRI of a slipped disc and never knew it.
Please define poor form that is universal.0 -
OP and anyone else who has questions about form might want to check out the untamed strength videos on YouTube. There are some fantastic videos regarding deadlift and squat form in particular.
Best of luck!0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Dogmom1978 wrote: »One clear example where form can cause injury:
Deadlift. People can and have slipped discs with poor form on a deadlift. Common sense says if you lift and your back is rounded you can cause injury. But hey don’t take my word for it:
https://stronglifts.com/deadlift/#Safety_Concerns
And poor form during a deadlift or squat where your knees are out significantly past your toes will put undue stress on your knee joints and result in knee injury.
Obviously, OP don’t obsess over perfect form as, no that isn’t really necessary, but please be mindful of having such bad form that you can seriously injure yourself.
No I asked for evidence backed by science not an article for someone promotingg their product.
BTW, my knees have been past my toes for 40+ years because I have extremely long femurss. No injuries to my knees, they haven't exploded. This while deadlifting power lifting records with a progressive joint disease.
Please state form that is universal that includes every body type.
I don’t have time for people who don’t understand basic body mechanics. As I said, some things, like a rounded back causing an injury are common sense. I can’t help that you don’t understand that.
OP find an actual professional. This guy was offering “pro bono” services AS IF they are a pro and then it says “I never said I was an expert”. Offering to assist someone pro bono implies that you normally charge for the service. If you aren’t an expert, you shouldn’t charge anyone a dime ever.
Bye bye
No you said a rounded back will cause injury and yet there's no evidence you have stated that proves that.
It's absolutely anatomically impossible to have a flat back.
Every competitor that is near maximalist will have. Some rounding in their back are you suggesting that every competitor has had an injury due to that?
Are you suggesting every strong man that strong men has experienced injury because they deadliftd an atlas stone with a severe rounded back?
Just because someone's a professional doesn't mean they deem themselves an expert .Dogmom1978 wrote: »OP and anyone else who has questions about form might want to check out the untamed strength videos on YouTube. There are some fantastic videos regarding deadlift and squat form in particular.
Best of luck!
Also if you talk to Alan he follows my line of thinking. Perhaps you want to ask the doctors at Barbellmedicine that Alan is part of. You will get the exact same answers I have given.
There is much to be learned if you open your mind and stop believing articles and read evidence.
Good luck.0 -
Keep disagreeing.
You stating you will slip a disc from deadlifting is unfounded.
Alan has learned a lot from his former coach Dr Buraki as have I.
Here is a video when it started he started to really educate himself.
Fast forward to 4:45. Where he states slip disc dont happen because of deadlifting. Also not to be afraid of movement.
He also states at very end of video, nothing prevents a back injury.
Btw Alan has resigned his old way of thinking on form. He has stated this many many times. He believes in proper load management as well. Perhaps you should research his current thinking that is backed by the exact same evidence I read.
https://youtu.be/riq-DfDDimc 1 -
Iron Culture did a show on pain science in 2019. They covered the intersection of form and injury risk with a panel of experts in the field starting at 1:41:47.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-S8nThxpqY&t=6107s
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Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.1
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Iron Culture did a show on pain science in 2019. They covered the intersection of form and injury risk with a panel of experts in the field starting at 1:41:47.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-S8nThxpqY&t=6107s
Ty for posting. Pain science is a overlooked component of what do.
So much conversation based on real evidence debunking the thought of bad form=injury.0 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.0 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
Thank you! I was waiting for people to start showing up who understand the basics! I don’t want the OP to risk injury listening to people lack the needed knowledge to help. 😊0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
Thank you! I was waiting for people to start showing up who understand the basics! I don’t want the OP to risk injury listening to people lack the needed knowledge to help. 😊
You mean like Alan Thrall you quoted? He denounced your arguement on slipped disc.-1 -
I love how some people cherry pick video and then continue to argue even when someone else has decided to ignore them. If I knew how to block those individuals, I would. It’s beginning to border on harrassment and you would think people have better things to do with their time....0
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Sweet! I found the ignore feature! I’ve been on MFP for years and this was the first time I’ve ever needed it... 🤷🏻♀️0
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Iron Culture did a show on pain science in 2019. They covered the intersection of form and injury risk with a panel of experts in the field starting at 1:41:47.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-S8nThxpqY&t=6107s
About a year ago Jordan featured me on one of his podcasts of how to overcome 24/7 pain and being considered one of the strongest at my age. Little did I know I would move into top 5 that year in USAPL. The guy is a plethora of information.1 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.1 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
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OP I continue to urge you to seek advice from someone who is an actual professional who won’t try to use bro science.
Work on your form to prevent injury. If your form is bad doing a standard bench press for example, you probably won’t hurt yourself, but you also won’t get the chest muscle activation you are hoping to achieve.
I don’t know where you are in the world, but I’m sure you actual professionals near you who could assist in helping you reach your goals. 😊0 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.2
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