Design a Machine-Focused Strength Routine
Options
Replies
-
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.
A full ROM is most beneficial for most general fitness along with goals like powerlifting, strongman, etc... There are at least 20 different variations of squats that can be useful depending on the goals and how programmed.
We must not assume everyone has the same goals or same programming. Where your gym buddies might not know better, that doesn't mean half squats have zero value regardless.
Think of it like a rack pull or RDL can be useful variation for a deadlift. I use both often during certain blocks of training as do my lifters. It is a way to add some stimulus without the same taxation on recovery. Would I use a rack pull exclusively? No, but it is useful for adding more frequency.
You are assuming that a half squat has the exact same technique as a parallel depth-squat. They are different lifts. Though the half squat has a some range of specificity towards the full squat just not as much usefulness for a range of goals.
0 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.
A full ROM is most beneficial for most general fitness along with goals like powerlifting, strongman, etc... There are at least 20 different variations of squats that can be useful depending on the goals and how programmed.
We must not assume everyone has the same goals or same programming. Where your gym buddies might not know better, that doesn't mean half squats have zero value regardless.
Think of it like a rack pull or RDL can be useful variation for a deadlift. I use both often during certain blocks of training as do my lifters. It is a way to add some stimulus without the same taxation on recovery. Would I use a rack pull exclusively? No, but it is useful for adding more frequency.
You are assuming that a half squat has the exact same technique as a parallel depth-squat. They are different lifts. Though the half squat has a some range of specificity towards the full squat just not as much usefulness for a range of goals.
The half squat has no use. There is hardly any loading of the quads, and is not good for knee health. Rack pulls are actually useful, as are defecit deadlifts. Ask any athlete, or knowledgeable coach if half squats are even a least big useful.1 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.
A full ROM is most beneficial for most general fitness along with goals like powerlifting, strongman, etc... There are at least 20 different variations of squats that can be useful depending on the goals and how programmed.
We must not assume everyone has the same goals or same programming. Where your gym buddies might not know better, that doesn't mean half squats have zero value regardless.
Think of it like a rack pull or RDL can be useful variation for a deadlift. I use both often during certain blocks of training as do my lifters. It is a way to add some stimulus without the same taxation on recovery. Would I use a rack pull exclusively? No, but it is useful for adding more frequency.
You are assuming that a half squat has the exact same technique as a parallel depth-squat. They are different lifts. Though the half squat has a some range of specificity towards the full squat just not as much usefulness for a range of goals.
The half squat has no use. There is hardly any loading of the quads, and is not good for knee health. Rack pulls are actually useful, as are defecit deadlifts. Ask any athlete, or knowledgeable coach if half squats are even a least big useful.
For your goals. It has been proven to help sprinters(I assume not your goal). So not everyone's goals.
Check out evidence such as this if You have time and you care to brush up on evidence.
POTENTIATION EFFECTS OF HALF-SQUATSPERFORMED IN A BALLISTIC OR NONBALLISTICMANNERTIMOTHY J. SUCHOMEL,1KIMITAKE SATO
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283517425_Potentiation_Effects_of_Half-Squats_Performed_in_a_Ballistic_or_Nonballistic_Manner
There are several others though this one is interesting just the same.
Also I have discussed with some of the top coaches in the US and they are the ones to open my mind to evidence based training.
Are half squats useful to a powerlifter? No.
Are they useful to a sprinter? Absolutely can be if programmed well.
We as coaches have to use means that are appropriate for the goal at hand.1 -
More current evidence to read.
Rhea, M. R., Kenn, J. G., Peterson, M. D., Massey, D., Simão, R., Marín, P. J., Favero, M., Cardozo, D., & Krein, D. (2016). "Joint-angle specific strength adaptations influence improvements in power in highly trained athletes," Human Movement, 17(1), DOI: 10.1515/humo-2016-0006
Rhea, M. R., Alvar, B. A., Burkett, L. N., & Ball, S. D. (2003). "A meta-analysis to determine the dose response for strength development," Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 35(3), 456-64.
McMahon, G. E., Morse, C. I., Burden, A., Winwood, K., & Onambélé, G. L. (2014). "Impact of range of motion during ecologically valid resistance training protocols on muscle size, subcutaneous fat, and strength," Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 28(1), 245-55.
Bloomquist, K., Langberg, H., Karlsen, S., Madsgaard, S., Boesen, S., & Raastad, T. (2013). "Effect of range of motion in heavy load squatting on muscle and tendon adaptations," European Journal of Applied Physiology, 113(8), 2133-42.
Weiss, L. W., Fry, A. C., Wood, L. E., Relyea, G. E., & Melton, C. (2000). "Comparative effects of deep versus shallow squat and leg-press training on vertical jumping ability and related factors," Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 14(3), 241-7.
Hartmann, H., Wirth, K., Klusemann, M., Dalic, J., Matuschek, C., & Schmidtbleicher, D. (2012). "Influence of squatting depth on jumping performance," Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 26(12), 3243-61.
0 -
Pretty good excerpt from barbell medicine backed by science and evidence.For example, if we have a lifter who is trying to improve their full squat, but only performs half squats in training, we would expect their results to be compromised compared to if they had trained full squats instead. Conversely, if we were trying to improve a lifter’s quarter squat or strength in the range of motion trained by the half squat because we had determined that the joint angles of the half squat were more closely related to the joint angle or muscular demands of their sport that we were trying to target, (e.g. the vertical jump), then we may actually choose to program the quarter squat and assess the outcomes rather than train for a less-specific, (potentially) resource-heavy goal like improving the full squat [4].
Rhea et al took 28 guys and assigned them to one of three training groups, quarter squat, half squat, or full squats that were performed in a 16-week training intervention. Strength measures were conducted in the back squat pre-, mid-, and post-training at all three depths. Vertical jump and 40-yard sprint time were also measured and it was found that squat strength improved at the specific depth trained in addition to quarter squatting having the greatest transfer to vertical jump height and sprinting speed.0 -
Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.
A full ROM is most beneficial for most general fitness along with goals like powerlifting, strongman, etc... There are at least 20 different variations of squats that can be useful depending on the goals and how programmed.
We must not assume everyone has the same goals or same programming. Where your gym buddies might not know better, that doesn't mean half squats have zero value regardless.
Think of it like a rack pull or RDL can be useful variation for a deadlift. I use both often during certain blocks of training as do my lifters. It is a way to add some stimulus without the same taxation on recovery. Would I use a rack pull exclusively? No, but it is useful for adding more frequency.
You are assuming that a half squat has the exact same technique as a parallel depth-squat. They are different lifts. Though the half squat has a some range of specificity towards the full squat just not as much usefulness for a range of goals.
The half squat has no use. There is hardly any loading of the quads, and is not good for knee health. Rack pulls are actually useful, as are defecit deadlifts. Ask any athlete, or knowledgeable coach if half squats are even a least big useful.
You should find someone who understands exercise science to converse with.
Hopefully the OP can distinguish the difference between good and bad advice 😊0 -
Dogmom1978 wrote: »Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.
A full ROM is most beneficial for most general fitness along with goals like powerlifting, strongman, etc... There are at least 20 different variations of squats that can be useful depending on the goals and how programmed.
We must not assume everyone has the same goals or same programming. Where your gym buddies might not know better, that doesn't mean half squats have zero value regardless.
Think of it like a rack pull or RDL can be useful variation for a deadlift. I use both often during certain blocks of training as do my lifters. It is a way to add some stimulus without the same taxation on recovery. Would I use a rack pull exclusively? No, but it is useful for adding more frequency.
You are assuming that a half squat has the exact same technique as a parallel depth-squat. They are different lifts. Though the half squat has a some range of specificity towards the full squat just not as much usefulness for a range of goals.
The half squat has no use. There is hardly any loading of the quads, and is not good for knee health. Rack pulls are actually useful, as are defecit deadlifts. Ask any athlete, or knowledgeable coach if half squats are even a least big useful.
You should find someone who understands exercise science to converse with.
Hopefully the OP can distinguish the difference between good and bad advice 😊Dogmom1978 wrote: »Form is absolutely imperative. I see a lot of guys in the gym half squatting. They are more worried about load than form. Form should be number one. It's just like Martial Arts for example. Speed and power come from proper technique. You don't tell a new student to kick as hard and fast as they can in the beginning. You teach them proper technique first. I understand that technique takes time, but it trumps load everytime.
That is a issue with improper load management. Too much weight on bar. Technique will always break down as we go closer to maximal lifts.
No one here is saying kick as hard and put as much weight as possible. The key is appropriate weight and reps and technique will come just like any other practice.
For a lot of people it's also their technique. They load weight before they have even a basic understanding of proper technique. I bet if you took the weight off, they would still half squat.
Perhaps. Hence why I offered to help OP with intensity/volume to assist the progress.
Half squats isn't bad form, but rather poor exercise selection.
Choosing to do a half squat isn't bad form necessarily. We can do a half squat with great technique. "Bad form" or poor technique is often mistakenly associated with injuries on it's own. The video on painscience discuss this.
We as humans adapt extremely well. One of my lifters is missing one of his hands. Yet he deadlifts, benches, squats, etc...just fine and doesn't experience injuries because he had to do the movement in a way that doesn't resemble "perfect form". He has adapted and strengthened his muscles to progress because the load was appropriate.
There is a use for half squats in training. For instance those who want to improve their sprint.
Allow me to explain in a different way.
Put the right intensity on the barbell we can learn better technique as we continue to train with appropriate intensity/volume.
Put the wrong intensity on the barbell and techniques goes out the window regardless how much you practice.
We first should strive to put the appropriate intensity and volume for the task at hand. Technique falls in place with time/reps relative to the individual as Dr Feigenbaum states in the pain science video.
I have to disagree. A proper squat should be at least paralell to the deck. If not, it's not proper technique. Just like if I only half chamber a round kick, it's not proper technique.
A full ROM is most beneficial for most general fitness along with goals like powerlifting, strongman, etc... There are at least 20 different variations of squats that can be useful depending on the goals and how programmed.
We must not assume everyone has the same goals or same programming. Where your gym buddies might not know better, that doesn't mean half squats have zero value regardless.
Think of it like a rack pull or RDL can be useful variation for a deadlift. I use both often during certain blocks of training as do my lifters. It is a way to add some stimulus without the same taxation on recovery. Would I use a rack pull exclusively? No, but it is useful for adding more frequency.
You are assuming that a half squat has the exact same technique as a parallel depth-squat. They are different lifts. Though the half squat has a some range of specificity towards the full squat just not as much usefulness for a range of goals.
The half squat has no use. There is hardly any loading of the quads, and is not good for knee health. Rack pulls are actually useful, as are defecit deadlifts. Ask any athlete, or knowledgeable coach if half squats are even a least big useful.
You should find someone who understands exercise science to converse with.
Hopefully the OP can distinguish the difference between good and bad advice 😊
Yet your source of evidence is a article written for promoting a site to make money.
You state check out Alan Thrall but not his current content that debunks your myths, you wnt his old content that he now admits was hog wash.
Then their is a panel of experts (even a credible doctor)stating nearly word for word what I say. Did you cue up the video the poster stated? Are you saying their words are wrong. Btw, that is a panel of experts.
Next you will say because I was on his podcast to help people understand how to overcome injuries and pain and be considered one of the strongest of my age despite having swollen joints and pain 24/7.
Yes, I have given bad advice n the past before educating myself through evidence I don't consider myself a expert though I'm pretty successful at my craft. You don't want to follow evidence, that is your jam.
Half of dozen citations yet I'm a bro science guy....okay kid. Please open your mind and stop taking things personal. You could learn something that might help you.
3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 389 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 919 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions