Sleep advice help?

dave_in_ni

I've had problems with sleep ever since my teens (40 now) I can not remember the last time I slept all night. My sleep is light, broken, tossing and turning, waking 3-4 times per night. I be grateful when it gets to a reasonable time where I can just get up. The result of all this is fatigue, lower energy in the gym, lower testosterone etc.

I will fall over to sleep quickly the issue is not staying asleep and when I diet it seems to *kitten* up even the falling asleep part.

I've done all the sleep hygiene tips, dark room, cool room, regular bedtime, bath before bed, salts etc, but all these things focus on mainly falling asleep not staying asleep.

Over the years I have tried.

• Herbal tablets
• Valerian
• Meditation
• Medication
• Magnesium
• CBD

The worst has been been over the counter medication, these leave a horrible hangover but again everything is focused on falling asleep not staying asleep.

Theoldguy1

How much caffeine are you taking in and at what times?

cmriverside

Are you waking up and worrying? Overthinking? Sounds like what happens to me when I'm really anxious about something.

BarbaraHelen2013

Do you drink alcohol in the evening?

I don’t mean an excess of alcohol, but even one or two drinks can cause sleep disturbance exactly as you describe. No issue with dropping off, waking after just 2-3 hours then inability to drop off properly again,

FibroHiker

Just some thoughts:

Regarding CBD oil: it isn't always relaxing as many people claim. Many people take CBD for anxiety, which can amp someone up when there's too much anxiety, increasing one's energy. For them CBD oil would bring them down reducing the extra energy. For me anxiety does the opposite. Too much anxiety and I fatigue, wanting to go to sleep. In my case the CBD oil actually gives me energy because it reduces the cognitive fatigue causing my energy levels to bottom out. I take CBD oil and about 45 minutes later I am more alert and have more energy. If you are the same, taking CBD during the day/morning would be a better choice because then you would have more energy when you need it and be able to relax/wind down later.

You mentioned herbal remedies and I used to scoff at OTC meds too until I tried Midnite. It's not just plain melotonin as that didn't work for me. Midnite was recommended to me for my fibromyalgia since Fibros don't sleep well. The first night it didn't make much of a difference, but taking it regularly at the same time each night helped to reestablish a sleep schedule for my body. I am now regularly getting between 6-7 hours a night and my energy levels have improved significantly.

If you've already tried Midnite I suggest talking with your doctor and getting trazodone. In my early 20s I was on a prescription for that for a few months until I had a regular sleep pattern reestablished.

lorrpb

Consider talking to your doctor and perhaps getting a sleep test.

zebasschick

i've always had trouble sleeping. what's helped me the most - more, btw, than medications, herbals or anything else:

- sleeping with a fan on to cover light noises. i have several friends who found that helped. you can also use a while noise generator on your phone or a standalone unit. some of these also will make rain sounds, ocean sounds and so on.

- listening to audiobooks - engrossing, not violent or depressing, books i'd actually want to read or listen to - and not worrying about whether i fall asleep. within 30ish minutes or so, i drift off. a decent reader is important to this as a bad one keeps me feeling annoyed, not so great for sleeping.

- daydreaming. this is another one where i don't worry about whether i fall asleep. daydream about something you'd like to experience. playing with your favorite band, successfully managing a wildly successful club/restaurant/shop, being part of the team on your favorite TV show, living in your dream house and all that entails, getting offered a spectacular job and negotiating the details. make it detailed, include conversation with other people. if you can do it so you're involved, it can also give you some positive "experiences" that will help you feel better in general.

- listen to the honest guys on youtube or by buying some of their clips. of all the guided meditations i've tried, theirs are the best for me. they have a couple i don't care for, but overall they rock. btw, it helps me to fall asleep even if i listen at other times as it leaves me just a little more relaxed overall.

ninerbuff

Go to a sleep clinic. Let them diagnose you.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

kshama2001

I have to stop drinking caffeinated drinks fairly early in the afternoon and stop drinking fluid all together at dinner.

Melatonin worked for me for decades, but when I got older my sleep got worse. Now I take advantage of an option that is legal in my jurisdiction but may not be in yours.

dave_in_ni

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

How much caffeine are you taking in and at what times?

Don't take caffeine anymore as it tends to make me anxious and gives skipped heart beats

dave_in_ni

BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »

Do you drink alcohol in the evening?

I don’t mean an excess of alcohol, but even one or two drinks can cause sleep disturbance exactly as you describe. No issue with dropping off, waking after just 2-3 hours then inability to drop off properly again,

I dont drink alcohol at all. Gave it up 18 months ago but yes used to do that to me too.

dave_in_ni

lorrpb wrote: »

Consider talking to your doctor and perhaps getting a sleep test.

Yeah I think this is the best course of action but I know she'll try to force pills down my throat before hand, cheaper to throw pills at the problem.

StevefromMichigan

I am guessing you have probably already tried this, but the only thing that works for me is taking a sleep aid with diphenhydramine 1.5 hours before going to bed. Walmart's brand, Sleep-Aid, is relatively inexpensive.

I also have a rule I follow: no caffeine after 12:00 pm. I think I read somewhere that caffeine can stay in your system for up to 11 hours.

AnnPT77

dave_in_ni wrote: »

lorrpb wrote: »

Consider talking to your doctor and perhaps getting a sleep test.

Yeah I think this is the best course of action but I know she'll try to force pills down my throat before hand, cheaper to throw pills at the problem.

I don't know your health system or your doctors, but this is not what happened to me.

Since my cancer treatment, I've had sleep interrruption insomnia - about 20 years now. I go to sleep quickly, but wake up repeatedly. I might have a bigger sleep interval at first, or maybe not, but then tend to wake up every 90 minutes or so. I don't toss and turn, usually; I go right back to sleep within moments, but will wake again in another 60-90 minutes . . . and repeat. Some nights it's better, some worse. It's improved *somewhat* over many years.

I tried the things you listed, that others listed, and others. No effect. In desperation, I spoke with my doctor. He didn't try to medicate me right away, he referred me to a sleep clinic. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, treated with a CPAP.

I'll be honest. In my case, it didn't solve the problem. It helped me to sleep more restfully during the sleep intervals, so I did feel better, less fatigued. But I was still waking repeatedly. (The sleep center I went to was pulmonology-based. When it didn't give me a full solution, they offered to refer me to a larger, more distant center with more specialties included, but I didn't choose to do that, at the time.) After treating the apnea, before offering the referral, they did ask me to try some prescription medications (this was not their first reflex, it was only after the sleep study, and I could've said no). The medications didn't help - I just woke up groggy every 90 minutes, and went back to sleep, instead of waking up sort of alert, then going back to sleep. Not an improvement.

I haven't found an ultimate perfect solution. The thing that helped me the most, honestly - and it was material improvement though not "a cure" - was hypnotherapy from a credentialed psychologist, for which I had to pay out of pocket. It was 6 sessions, each a couple of weeks apart. In the first session, she interviewed me. In the 2nd through 5th sessions, she hypnotized me, and made an audio recording of the session. I was to play the recording when I went to be, each night until the next session. After that, she told me to re-use the recordings anytime I needed to, for any number of nights each, but always the same number of nights for each recording, and always in the original order.

I did not go into this with a belief in hypnosis, but by this point I was *desperate*, and would've tried nearly anything that seemed safe. I'm still somewhat skeptical, really. But it helped. I went from the initial period of sleep being maybe 90 minutes, to the intial segment being 3-5 hours, after which I still tended to wake up on the 90-minute-ish intervals. But this was a huge, huge improvement, in practical terms.

I have no idea whether hypnotherapy would help you. I wrote this all out to say:

* Don't assume that a sleep clinic will push drugs as the first option. Mine didn't. It may be worth an initial visit to see. You can say no.
* Hypnotherapy may be worth considering, if you haven't, if you're desperate, are willing to try it, and can find a qualified practitioner.

MaggieGirl135

My first thought was the one that helped me: daily exercise in the morning. Prior to this, I only sporadically exercised. I read that you go to the gym; if you exercise within a few hours prior to bedtime, it may make it difficult to fall asleep. That’s why I recommend morning exercise. You didn’t mention this, but probably tried this: incorporating ‘sleep hygiene’. Google it, to find a comprehensive list. Sometimes, just one or two items may help, like no computer use prior to bed. Of course, checking with your doctor is always a good decision. Good luck.

kimny72

Do you know if you snore? Is it possible you have sleep apnea? Depression? Acid reflux?

Do you take any unrelated prescription or OTC meds daily?

Feel free not to answer these questions here as they're personal, just some things to think about!

Most of the people I've known who complained to their doctor about sleep issues have actually been encouraged to NOT rely on pills unless no other issues were found, or as a stop gap until they could get an appt with a specialist. If your doctor is generally a pill pusher, maybe now is a good time to see if you have access to a telehealth service (due to the pandemic) and see a new doc.

darreneatschicken

Have you tried extended release melatonin? Bright light therapy?

Perhaps a sleep specialist could help.

MikePfirrman

Bluelight exposure hours before bed can wreak havoc on your sleep. I have a bluelight filter on all electronics and stay off the computer for a few hours before bed. Research is finding the retina in your eyes has a LOT to do with sex hormones. Electronic devices are killing us.

I also have an app called SnoreLab that helped me immensely. I used to snore a lot and I loaded that app and for a couple of bucks bought SnoreGym that teaches you exercises to minimize snoring. I also found out if I have fan pointed at my head I sleep better. Also, I use nose opening plugs. Had to find some that were effective and comfortable. In addition, I have a cool pillow which helps a lot. I also take Prostate supplements for going to the bathroom less for the night. All of this has dramatically helped my sleep quality.

It might also be your mattress as well.