Time to Gain! Anyone running a bulk?
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Hi! I hope it’s ok to ask for advice here!
I want to try bulking for the first time. I’ve been strength training over the last two years (some home, some gym) and have definitely gotten stronger and can lift pretty heavy but always with a focus on fat loss. I definitely have a bit of a fear of weight gain since I have focused so long on loss. Right now I’ve committed to 4 more weeks of fat loss, then I was thinking a few weeks of maintenance (because I don’t love the idea of gaining weight in the summer, especially after all my hard work!), and mid-July to mid-October adding 100-200 calories to maintenance to do a lean bulk, then cut till Christmas. I think that’s a bit of a short time frame for bulking, but maybe ok for a first-timer? I’m kind of trying to plan it around when I have visitors in town because the extra calories would be useful! Oh, and I am 34f, 136lbs, 5’5” and I *think* a low 20’s bf percentage. I have calipers but need to get help to get a more accurate reading.
My concern would be that you’re not going to get much mileage out of that short of a bulk. Per Lyle McDonald’s recommendations on expected muscle gain rate, you’d max at 0.5 lbs per month so you’re taking only 1.5 lbs during the time frame you suggested. If you stretched it out to ~5 months (mid-July to mid December) that’s another 1lb lean mass gain potential and shifting to maintenance around the holidays makes a nice runway to start a cut in January like all the other resolutioners. That’s essentially what I did for my first real committed lean bulk last year and was happy with that timing1 -
Hi! I hope it’s ok to ask for advice here! I want to try bulking for the first time. I’ve been strength training over the last two years (some home, some gym) and have definitely gotten stronger and can lift pretty heavy but always with a focus on fat loss. I definitely have a bit of a fear of weight gain since I have focused so long on loss. Right now I’ve committed to 4 more weeks of fat loss, then I was thinking a few weeks of maintenance (because I don’t love the idea of gaining weight in the summer, especially after all my hard work!), and mid-July to mid-October adding 100-200 calories to maintenance to do a lean bulk, then cut till Christmas. I think that’s a bit of a short time frame for bulking, but maybe ok for a first-timer? I’m kind of trying to plan it around when I have visitors in town because the extra calories would be useful! Oh, and I am 34f, 136lbs, 5’5” and I *think* a low 20’s bf percentage. I have calipers but need to get help to get a more accurate reading.
My concern would be that you’re not going to get much mileage out of that short of a bulk. Per Lyle McDonald’s recommendations on expected muscle gain rate, you’d max at 0.5 lbs per month so you’re taking only 1.5 lbs during the time frame you suggested. If you stretched it out to ~5 months (mid-July to mid December) that’s another 1lb lean mass gain potential and shifting to maintenance around the holidays makes a nice runway to start a cut in January like all the other resolutioners. That’s essentially what I did for my first real committed lean bulk last year and was happy with that timing
Thank you for the input! That would make sense to extend to the holidays for lots of reasons...I think I’ll start and then see how it goes and how I feel mid-October. I can always just go from there depending on how I feel!
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Hi! I hope it’s ok to ask for advice here! I want to try bulking for the first time. I’ve been strength training over the last two years (some home, some gym) and have definitely gotten stronger and can lift pretty heavy but always with a focus on fat loss. I definitely have a bit of a fear of weight gain since I have focused so long on loss. Right now I’ve committed to 4 more weeks of fat loss, then I was thinking a few weeks of maintenance (because I don’t love the idea of gaining weight in the summer, especially after all my hard work!), and mid-July to mid-October adding 100-200 calories to maintenance to do a lean bulk, then cut till Christmas. I think that’s a bit of a short time frame for bulking, but maybe ok for a first-timer? I’m kind of trying to plan it around when I have visitors in town because the extra calories would be useful! Oh, and I am 34f, 136lbs, 5’5” and I *think* a low 20’s bf percentage. I have calipers but need to get help to get a more accurate reading.
If you've been consistently strength training for two years, applying progressive overload, then three months is a pretty short bulk for you. Also, consider your timing. I made the mistake of cutting during the winter, including over the holidays. For me that's much harder to do than, say, over the spring/summer when I can get outside and there are fewer holidays, with lots of great carbs, to contend with.
Your idea of going to maintenance for a few weeks before bulking is great. That's how I did it. It gives you a chance to verify what your maintenance level is and then to add calories to that level gradually. You might be surprised though, especially if you've added muscle since the last time you were in a caloric surplus. The calorie level I had to go to to start gaining was quite a bit higher than I thought it would be. The main impact for you would be timing. If you go to a maintenance calorie level and then a bulk level, and it takes a few weeks to establish what those levels are, then you'll be limiting the length of your bulk even further.0 -
Hi! I hope it’s ok to ask for advice here! I want to try bulking for the first time. I’ve been strength training over the last two years (some home, some gym) and have definitely gotten stronger and can lift pretty heavy but always with a focus on fat loss. I definitely have a bit of a fear of weight gain since I have focused so long on loss. Right now I’ve committed to 4 more weeks of fat loss, then I was thinking a few weeks of maintenance (because I don’t love the idea of gaining weight in the summer, especially after all my hard work!), and mid-July to mid-October adding 100-200 calories to maintenance to do a lean bulk, then cut till Christmas. I think that’s a bit of a short time frame for bulking, but maybe ok for a first-timer? I’m kind of trying to plan it around when I have visitors in town because the extra calories would be useful! Oh, and I am 34f, 136lbs, 5’5” and I *think* a low 20’s bf percentage. I have calipers but need to get help to get a more accurate reading.
If you've been consistently strength training for two years, applying progressive overload, then three months is a pretty short bulk for you. Also, consider your timing. I made the mistake of cutting during the winter, including over the holidays. For me that's much harder to do than, say, over the spring/summer when I can get outside and there are fewer holidays, with lots of great carbs, to contend with.
Your idea of going to maintenance for a few weeks before bulking is great. That's how I did it. It gives you a chance to verify what your maintenance level is and then to add calories to that level gradually. You might be surprised though, especially if you've added muscle since the last time you were in a caloric surplus. The calorie level I had to go to to start gaining was quite a bit higher than I thought it would be. The main impact for you would be timing. If you go to a maintenance calorie level and then a bulk level, and it takes a few weeks to establish what those levels are, then you'll be limiting the length of your bulk even further.
I'll add to this regarding calorie level; I was very surprised that my observed TDEE is now ~150 cal/day higher than pre-bulk. Partly due to muscle gain but also likely due to some metabolic adaptation from being similarly averse and fearful of fat gain given a past of struggling with weight and body image.1 -
If you've been consistently strength training for two years, applying progressive overload, then three months is a pretty short bulk for you. Also, consider your timing. I made the mistake of cutting during the winter, including over the holidays. For me that's much harder to do than, say, over the spring/summer when I can get outside and there are fewer holidays, with lots of great carbs, to contend with.
Your idea of going to maintenance for a few weeks before bulking is great. That's how I did it. It gives you a chance to verify what your maintenance level is and then to add calories to that level gradually. You might be surprised though, especially if you've added muscle since the last time you were in a caloric surplus. The calorie level I had to go to to start gaining was quite a bit higher than I thought it would be. The main impact for you would be timing. If you go to a maintenance calorie level and then a bulk level, and it takes a few weeks to establish what those levels are, then you'll be limiting the length of your bulk even further.I'll add to this regarding calorie level; I was very surprised that my observed TDEE is now ~150 cal/day higher than pre-bulk. Partly due to muscle gain but also likely due to some metabolic adaptation from being similarly averse and fearful of fat gain given a past of struggling with weight and body image.
Thank you both for the input! You're right, I really should be giving myself more time. I'm glad doing maintenance first is a good idea. I also figure it'll give me a chance to get used to eating more, both physically and mentally! I may go into maintenance sooner. I'm trying to focus extra well on my nutrition so I can get to where I want to be sooner. I'm also just getting super tired of dieting! I found a few TDEE calculators that give you different results if you put in your body fat percentage, and yes, I was quite surprised to see the results when I used my approximate body fat percentage! I'm going to get a better reading with my calipers and then go from there. I'd be okay with extra food!
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Bulk is coming to a grinding halt. Last week was my deload/work trip. Came home to a UTI and was prescribed cipro. The possible side effects of tearing a tendon scares me shitless so another week or two off.2
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My "clean" bulk has become "dirty" the last few weeks. My kiddos high-school graduation, and associated celebratory eating, dates with sneak attacks by cheesecake, etc., have really thrown me off the last 3 weeks. Gotta get this back under control. I started out with a solid 0.5-0.7lbs/week. It's now easily 1lb/week. Doesn't seem like a lot but almost double what I wanted.
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My "clean" bulk has become "dirty" the last few weeks. My kiddos high-school graduation, and associated celebratory eating, dates with sneak attacks by cheesecake, etc., have really thrown me off the last 3 weeks. Gotta get this back under control. I started out with a solid 0.5-0.7lbs/week. It's now easily 1lb/week. Doesn't seem like a lot but almost double what I wanted.
Ugh cheesecake!! My weakness!! Dw it’s water 1 -
My "clean" bulk has become "dirty" the last few weeks. My kiddos high-school graduation, and associated celebratory eating, dates with sneak attacks by cheesecake, etc., have really thrown me off the last 3 weeks. Gotta get this back under control. I started out with a solid 0.5-0.7lbs/week. It's now easily 1lb/week. Doesn't seem like a lot but almost double what I wanted.
Gary, I wouldn't worry about that pace too much. I hit 1-2 lbs/week for a stretch during my winter bulk and it didn't really set me back much. I posted over in the cut thread some metrics but forgot to post them here. I've whittled my way back down to be in the ballpark of my pre-bulk weight at ~174 lbs.
Pre-bulk : 8/1/2020 - 173.4 lbs @ 11.6% BF
Post-cut : 5/31/2021- 174.2 lbs @ 11.2% BF
Taking the metrics at face value, it shows a gain of 1.40 lbs lean mass and 0.6 lbs less fat over 10 full months. I also hit a bench PR (300 lbs) in April and matched my lifetime Deadlift PR (400 lbs) in mid May. For context, I hit my peak weight of right around 180 the week of Christmas so I did keep my overall gain pretty low for five months but it definitely wasn't the slow linear climb in weight I was projecting.
It feels noteworthy that I didn't really do any maintenance phase between bulking and cutting, which I now know is recommended by Isratel and others. I want to say I heard that on the RP podcast right around Christmas so I eased off calories slightly but was feeling flabby and impatience had me on a deficit by January 2nd. Subsequently, I'm planning to incorporate two weeks at maintenance at the end of massing phases. RP's recommendation is maintenance for half as long as each cut but I'm not sure I functionally cut aggressively enough for that to make sense.2 -
I decided to end my fat loss 3 weeks early because I felt like I was in a good spot to start maintenance and so far, so good. I’ve been in maintenance for a week. Had an initial big gain and then settled into a 2-3 pound steady weight up from where I was. Calories varied a bit but when averaged came out pretty close to what TDEE calculators gave me. I increased by a little more for this week and I’ll see what happens, but I’m going to be about a month ahead of my original plan so I’m happy about that.
The other thing is though, that there was an in-person road race announced for October, first one since before Covid, and I just can’t pass up the opportunity! I don’t know how tight registering will be but if I get in I’ll be training for a half-marathon too. I know, not ideal, but I’m trying to not take all this too seriously and plan to just eat more to compensate for the extra cardio! Hopefully it all works out!2 -
I decided to end my fat loss 3 weeks early because I felt like I was in a good spot to start maintenance and so far, so good. I’ve been in maintenance for a week. Had an initial big gain and then settled into a 2-3 pound steady weight up from where I was. Calories varied a bit but when averaged came out pretty close to what TDEE calculators gave me. I increased by a little more for this week and I’ll see what happens, but I’m going to be about a month ahead of my original plan so I’m happy about that.
The other thing is though, that there was an in-person road race announced for October, first one since before Covid, and I just can’t pass up the opportunity! I don’t know how tight registering will be but if I get in I’ll be training for a half-marathon too. I know, not ideal, but I’m trying to not take all this too seriously and plan to just eat more to compensate for the extra cardio! Hopefully it all works out!
As a reformed runner I can tell you it's almost useless to try and bulk while training for a race, unless you're very genetically gifted and 100% on top of your recovery (and a LOT younger than me
). The best you can typically hope for while training for a race is to maintain lean mass. If at all possible it'd be almost ideal to time a cut for your race training. Pretty easy to lose fat while you're running that much and maintaining is more attainable than gaining, although still not an easy task.
And I am a little jealous of your race. I generally don't miss running, but I do miss long weekend runs and the excitement of racing. Good luck!0 -
Thanks @alexmose2 and @steveko89. I've managed to curb my weight gain, slightly. And yeah alex, cheescake is my weakness. It's SOOOO good!
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I decided to end my fat loss 3 weeks early because I felt like I was in a good spot to start maintenance and so far, so good. I’ve been in maintenance for a week. Had an initial big gain and then settled into a 2-3 pound steady weight up from where I was. Calories varied a bit but when averaged came out pretty close to what TDEE calculators gave me. I increased by a little more for this week and I’ll see what happens, but I’m going to be about a month ahead of my original plan so I’m happy about that.
The other thing is though, that there was an in-person road race announced for October, first one since before Covid, and I just can’t pass up the opportunity! I don’t know how tight registering will be but if I get in I’ll be training for a half-marathon too. I know, not ideal, but I’m trying to not take all this too seriously and plan to just eat more to compensate for the extra cardio! Hopefully it all works out!
As a reformed runner I can tell you it's almost useless to try and bulk while training for a race, unless you're very genetically gifted and 100% on top of your recovery (and a LOT younger than me ). The best you can typically hope for while training for a race is to maintain lean mass. If at all possible it'd be almost ideal to time a cut for your race training. Pretty easy to lose fat while you're running that much and maintaining is more attainable than gaining, although still not an easy task.
And I am a little jealous of your race. I generally don't miss running, but I do miss long weekend runs and the excitement of racing. Good luck!
Thanks for the insight! I’m so torn because I’d already decided on doing a bulk and then this race was announced and it would kill me to not do it. I don’t do many races (just two 10Ks a year and I did a couple of sprint triathlons) but Covid has got me itching to get back after all the cancellations. I guess I’ll just see how it goes!
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I decided to end my fat loss 3 weeks early because I felt like I was in a good spot to start maintenance and so far, so good. I’ve been in maintenance for a week. Had an initial big gain and then settled into a 2-3 pound steady weight up from where I was. Calories varied a bit but when averaged came out pretty close to what TDEE calculators gave me. I increased by a little more for this week and I’ll see what happens, but I’m going to be about a month ahead of my original plan so I’m happy about that.
The other thing is though, that there was an in-person road race announced for October, first one since before Covid, and I just can’t pass up the opportunity! I don’t know how tight registering will be but if I get in I’ll be training for a half-marathon too. I know, not ideal, but I’m trying to not take all this too seriously and plan to just eat more to compensate for the extra cardio! Hopefully it all works out!
As a reformed runner I can tell you it's almost useless to try and bulk while training for a race, unless you're very genetically gifted and 100% on top of your recovery (and a LOT younger than me ). The best you can typically hope for while training for a race is to maintain lean mass. If at all possible it'd be almost ideal to time a cut for your race training. Pretty easy to lose fat while you're running that much and maintaining is more attainable than gaining, although still not an easy task.
And I am a little jealous of your race. I generally don't miss running, but I do miss long weekend runs and the excitement of racing. Good luck!
Thanks for the insight! I’m so torn because I’d already decided on doing a bulk and then this race was announced and it would kill me to not do it. I don’t do many races (just two 10Ks a year and I did a couple of sprint triathlons) but Covid has got me itching to get back after all the cancellations. I guess I’ll just see how it goes!
If I were still into running I'd do the race. You can always adjust your bulk/cut cycle timing but you can't adjust a race day.
If you do decide to run the race then the best advice I can offer is to absolutely stay on top of your protein intake and make sure the rest of your calories are enough that you don't lose weight too quickly, if at all, while training for the race. As far as lifting, I'd focus on maintaining my lifts where I was and reducing the amount of time I spent in the gym in order to focus on running. It doesn't take a lot of lifting to maintain muscle mass, assuming you're on top of your nutrition and not absolutely destroying yourself with intense cardio, so reducing the lifting to prioritize recovery from running would be my choice. I'd probably half my gym time and keep my lifts at about a 5 or 6 RPE.
And also remember even if you lose some muscle mass it doesn't take long for you as a regular resistance trainee to recover that mass once you can start progressively lifting again.1 -
Good to see everyone keeping their wits about them!
I am back in the game. I was out of the gym for 4 weeks due to travel and illness. I lost some strength (and honestly a pound or two) but look forward to building again. No rush to get to where I was before and no sense in another injury.3 -
Good to see everyone keeping their wits about them!
I am back in the game. I was out of the gym for 4 weeks due to travel and illness. I lost some strength (and honestly a pound or two) but look forward to building again. No rush to get to where I was before and no sense in another injury.
To follow on, I am adding 80 cals/day. It isn’t much but brings me to 2250ish per day, which is delicious.1 -
Good to see everyone keeping their wits about them!
I am back in the game. I was out of the gym for 4 weeks due to travel and illness. I lost some strength (and honestly a pound or two) but look forward to building again. No rush to get to where I was before and no sense in another injury.
To follow on, I am adding 80 cals/day. It isn’t much but brings me to 2250ish per day, which is delicious.
Yeah, the extra 100 I’m still seeing on my TDEE after my bulk is delightful. Doesn’t seem like enough it should make that much of a difference but it’s noticeable to me for sure.2 -
Ever watch a dog with a toy in it's mouth, where it rapidly shakes the toy side to side? That's what I felt like after lifting Friday. 😂 Definitely time for a deload week. How does everyone else deload? I cut my volume load by at least 25%, up my cardio a bit and at least try to get some yoga and other recovery activity in (massage gun, stretching, etc.)1
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Ever watch a dog with a toy in it's mouth, where it rapidly shakes the toy side to side? That's what I felt like after lifting Friday. 😂 Definitely time for a deload week. How does everyone else deload? I cut my volume load by at least 25%, up my cardio a bit and at least try to get some yoga and other recovery activity in (massage gun, stretching, etc.)
I've always just kind of backed off by feel but I'm really bad at assessing that. The RP plan I started a few weeks ago has way more auto-regulation than anything I've ever used and I'm very interested to see how I respond. It prescribes ramping sets and RIR based on rating the previous workouts and a deload every ~6th week. The deload drops to 2 sets at half the reps of achieved during the first week of the meso (which is programmed to 85% of 10RM at 3RIR)1 -
Ever watch a dog with a toy in it's mouth, where it rapidly shakes the toy side to side? That's what I felt like after lifting Friday. 😂 Definitely time for a deload week. How does everyone else deload? I cut my volume load by at least 25%, up my cardio a bit and at least try to get some yoga and other recovery activity in (massage gun, stretching, etc.)
I've always just kind of backed off by feel but I'm really bad at assessing that. The RP plan I started a few weeks ago has way more auto-regulation than anything I've ever used and I'm very interested to see how I respond. It prescribes ramping sets and RIR based on rating the previous workouts and a deload every ~6th week. The deload drops to 2 sets at half the reps of achieved during the first week of the meso (which is programmed to 85% of 10RM at 3RIR)
That's really close to how I approach it, although I will occasionally not lift at all. For the most part any lifting I do during my deload I consider a place holder so I don't get lazy when it's time to start the next meso.
Just got email from my gym, showers and hot tub back in business. Oh hot tub how I've missed thee! And perfect timing for my deload.0
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