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Increasing Muscle Mass (DM2 + OMAD + Med)

tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

This is my diet forever. But.

Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

edited September 25

Replies

  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 43,294 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 43,294 Member
    tsazani wrote: »
    Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

    This is my diet forever. But.

    Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

    Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

    Is it possible for me
    Not likely significant. Trying to add muscle on a keto diet isn't ideal because MTOR pathway for growth is inhibited from lack of carbs.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    edited September 25
  • tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
    I don't quite agree with the necessity of carbs (insulin spike) and MTOR pathway in someone who is fat adapted like myself.

    See this: https://ffspodcast.com/2019/04/10/building-muscle-on-keto/

    Carbs increase muscle glycogen. Each molecule of glucose in the glycogen chain needs one molecule of water.

    If I were INSULIN SENSITIVE I could increase my muscle SIZE by 25% by loading up my muscles with glycogen. But it's just extra salt water.

  • ecjimecjim Member Posts: 880 Member Member Posts: 880 Member
    How many cals in the one meal ?
  • tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
    To maintain my ideal weight at my current activity level I eat 2400 cal (40-50 g carbs) in 1 to 3 hours.

    For the next 21 to 23 hours only water, black coffee or teas, and some salt.
    ecjim wrote: »
    How many cals in the one meal ?

    edited September 25
  • gabrielcurran2243gabrielcurran2243 Member Posts: 29 Member Member Posts: 29 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tsazani wrote: »
    Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

    This is my diet forever. But.

    Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

    Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

    Is it possible for me
    Not likely significant. Trying to add muscle on a keto diet isn't ideal because MTOR pathway for growth is inhibited from lack of carbs.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    I have to agree with niner. Keto is more of a weight loss/ cutting diet. You’d be hard pressed to add mass...
  • cupcakesandproteinshakescupcakesandproteinshakes Member Posts: 800 Member Member Posts: 800 Member
    What’s your lifting training history?
    Current weight and height?

    From what I’ve read, Keto and OMAD are not optimal for muscle building. I know a few regulars on this thread do low carb and keto so they may chime in. It sounds like you have an eating lifestyle that you are keen to maintain and if so then that’s fine and maybe just add some lifting in and see what happens.

    I don’t know anything about your medical condition and how that may impact.

    You’ll never know unless you try. If you’re new to lifting, follow an established newbie programme for a few months and see.
  • MT1134MT1134 Member Posts: 174 Member Member Posts: 174 Member
    I guess it could be done according to others (link provided below) but I don't much about your medical condition.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/building-muscle-on-keto
  • watts6151watts6151 Member, Premium Posts: 769 Member Member, Premium Posts: 769 Member
    From what I’ve read keto seems fine
    For the preservation of muscle but appears
    Inferior for hypertrophy for all the reasons @ninerbuff has pointed out. Coupled to your age, hormone levels and eating style I’d say your putting yourself at a disadvantage if hypertrophy is your goal

    Reference for those interested

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6724590/
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 43,294 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 43,294 Member
    MT1134 wrote: »
    I guess it could be done according to others (link provided below) but I don't much about your medical condition.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/building-muscle-on-keto
    Age matters as well. A "college" age male is likely closer to peak hormones compared to a male over 50 not on TRT.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • MT1134MT1134 Member Posts: 174 Member Member Posts: 174 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    MT1134 wrote: »
    I guess it could be done according to others (link provided below) but I don't much about your medical condition.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/building-muscle-on-keto
    Age matters as well. A "college" age male is likely closer to peak hormones compared to a male over 50 not on TRT.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Fair enough. I can't speak to these matters in great depth, however, what you're saying makes sense.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 16,809 Member Member, Premium Posts: 16,809 Member
    tsazani wrote: »
    Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

    This is my diet forever. But.

    Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

    Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

    I'm curious:

    What part(s) of your future plan would change if the answer were "definitely possible" vs. "definitely impossible"? If "impossible" would you not bother to strength train, for example?

    What part of your routine would you be willing to change, if it made a major difference in the probability of making mass gains? Keto? OMAD? The prescription drug that may help you avoid health complications?

    If you're just wondering, but wouldn't change anything you're currently doing - which seems reasonable because it appears you're committed to it, and finding it useful in various ways - why not just run the experiment at "best reasonable effort' level, and see what results?

    Signed,

    64-year-old vegetarian woman who thinks progressive strength training is a really good plan
  • tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
    My goal is to keep my DM2 (insulin resitance) in remission. I need to keep my insulin levels as low as possible for as long as possible during each 24 hour period.

    Thus the ketogenic OMAD diet which has allowed me to discontinue 5 medications.

    My exercise routine is just to keep me in shape and fuctional. 40 min / day 4 days per week. A combo of resistance, cardio, and yoga. On the other 3 days just 30 min of yoga.

    So no muscular hypertrophy for me.
    edited September 27
  • tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
    I'm going to try the TKD. If my blood sugars go up I'm back to OMAD.
    psuLemon wrote: »
    At the very least, you should consider moving off of OMAD and running a TKD diet. Spreading protein over 3-4 meals will increase MPS. And if you time 30-40g of carbs around your workout it should improve workout performance.

  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,818 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 36,818 MFP Moderator
    tsazani wrote: »
    I'm going to try the TKD. If my blood sugars go up I'm back to OMAD.
    psuLemon wrote: »
    At the very least, you should consider moving off of OMAD and running a TKD diet. Spreading protein over 3-4 meals will increase MPS. And if you time 30-40g of carbs around your workout it should improve workout performance.

    Getting off OMAD shouldn't effect blood sugar if your primary meals are protein and fats. And timing nutrients around workout should provide the use of those carbs intra workout.

    But keto and OMAD is not a good route for muscle gains because there is nothing anabolic about fasting.
  • Diatonic12Diatonic12 Member Posts: 8,541 Member Member Posts: 8,541 Member
    OMAD You can do your own research but newer studies say that it contributes to nutritional deficiencies. There's really not much benefit in eating 2400 calories in one hour of time. So much of this stuff is mental and learning new food skillsets will take you much further into that future than eating all of the things at one time.
    Long term weight stability is not easily found. At the 5 year mark, few are left standing with their Maintenance intact.

    OMAD is often used as a short-term bandaid for a lifelong struggle with weight and food. An extreme work around or antidote. The struggle is not over when all of the weight releasing is done. It takes years to replace those old behaviors with food.

    When the antidote becomes the problem you end up starting over and over and over. Looking for another quick fix to overcompensate for the wild swings back and forth. UP and down.

    The OMAD high and the Rebound low. Extremes beget extremes.





  • tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
    I'm extremely reluctant to change LCHF. I know the ketogenic OMAD diet is "the cure" for my "Chronic Carbohydrate Toxicity". I have my go to strategy. I can play around with my carbs and exercise again.

    I'd been doing LCHF (Atkins / Bernstein) with carb and exercise timing for 15 years. I did OK. But not great. I danced around my (IR) insulin resitance.

    Got my weight down from 212 lb to 190 lb and my unacceptable blood sugars under decent control. Lots of cheating with carbs.

    It wasn't until I began looking at carbs as an addictive lethal drug that I reached total success. I went on full frontal attack on my IR and carb addiction. The ketogenic OMAD diet.

    I now weigh between 170-175 lb. I no longer take any meds for diabetes, high blood pressure, or cholesterol. That's 5 different meds.

    I see my PCP tomorrow AM. The discussion should be very interesting.
  • tsazanitsazani Member Posts: 653 Member Member Posts: 653 Member
    Saw my PCP on Mon. A1c = 5.1. Non-diabetic. On Tue I tried to watch the Trump Biden debate. After 10 min got up and committed carbocide.
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