Increasing Muscle Mass (DM2 + OMAD + Med)

tsazani

Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

This is my diet forever. But.

Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

ninerbuff

tsazani wrote: »

Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

This is my diet forever. But.

Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

Is it possible for me

Not likely significant. Trying to add muscle on a keto diet isn't ideal because MTOR pathway for growth is inhibited from lack of carbs.

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ecjim

How many cals in the one meal ?

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gabrielcurran2243

ninerbuff wrote: »

tsazani wrote: »

Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

This is my diet forever. But.

Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

Is it possible for me

Not likely significant. Trying to add muscle on a keto diet isn't ideal because MTOR pathway for growth is inhibited from lack of carbs.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
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I have to agree with niner. Keto is more of a weight loss/ cutting diet. You’d be hard pressed to add mass...

cupcakesandproteinshakes

What’s your lifting training history?
Current weight and height?

From what I’ve read, Keto and OMAD are not optimal for muscle building. I know a few regulars on this thread do low carb and keto so they may chime in. It sounds like you have an eating lifestyle that you are keen to maintain and if so then that’s fine and maybe just add some lifting in and see what happens.

I don’t know anything about your medical condition and how that may impact.

You’ll never know unless you try. If you’re new to lifting, follow an established newbie programme for a few months and see.

ninerbuff

tsazani wrote: »

I don't quite agree with the necessity of carbs (insulin spike) and MTOR pathway in someone who is fat adapted like myself.

See this: https://ffspodcast.com/2019/04/10/building-muscle-on-keto/

Carbs increase muscle glycogen. Each molecule of glucose in the glycogen chain needs one molecule of water.

If I were INSULIN SENSITIVE I could increase my muscle SIZE by 25% by loading up my muscles with glycogen. But it's just extra salt water.

You don't have to agree. The science actually proves it. If keto were the way to do it, then amatuer and professional bodybuilders would do it that way so they don't have to bulk before a competition.

Ketogenic Diets Inhibit mTOR, Insulin, IGF-1 and Muscle Growth

Nutrition is arguably the most important component of an athlete or bodybuilder's training regimen. A precise and effective nutritional diet plan produces a biochemical environment that promotes the most efficient muscular adaptations to resistance or endurance exercise. Throughout the years, bodybuilders and athletes have tried to improve their physiques by implementing the ketogenic diet that is high in fat and low in protein and carbohydrate. The fundamental idea behind the ketogenic diet, besides being hypocaloric, is to persuade the body to burn fats rather than carbohydrates or protein due to the lack of carbohydrate and protein in the diet. The excessive fatty acid oxidation in the liver leads to the inevitable conversion of accumulated fatty acid oxidation intermediates into ketone bodies, which were suspected to possess appetite-suppressant properties— thus further facilitating caloric restriction and loss of body fat.

KETOGENIC DIETS DRIVE AN EXTRAORDINARY LOSS OF MUSCLE MASS
While ketogenic diets do tend to stimulate fast weight loss, one of the major drawbacks of the ketogenic diet is that a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This negative aspect of the ketogenic diet occurs despite the fact that the body typically prefers to burn either carbohydrates or fat for energy instead of muscle protein, even during times of reduced caloric consumption. For some reason, ketogenic diets generate a greater than normal preference for muscle protein as an energy source during hypocaloric consumption. This phenomenon appears to be partially due to the poor regulation of the all-important nutrient-sensing molecule mTOR from the low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet.

During times of energy surplus, an activated mTOR turns on protein synthesis in muscle cells— leading to enhanced muscle growth and strength. During energy deficits, the inactivated mTOR leads to diminished muscle protein synthesis— leading to muscle atrophy.The consumption of the ketogenic diet has been shown by recent scientific investigation to negatively influence specific hormones and anabolic growth factors that are known to directly or indirectly activate mTOR.This negative influence on mTOR leads to the inhibition of muscle protein synthesis and contributes to the utilization of muscle protein as an energy source.This use of muscle protein as an energy source produces significant loss of muscle mass and strength.

KETOGENIC DIETS INHIBIT INSULIN SIGNALING, PROTEIN SYNTHESIS AND MUSCULAR DEVELOPMENT
Insulin is the primary hormone that responds to increases in blood sugar, causing sugar to be shuttled into the cell for energy consumption or storage. Insulin has also been shown to be one of the most potent activators of mTOR.1 Therefore, the low-carbohydrate feature of the ketogenic diet diminishes insulin signaling and may diminish mTOR signaling. In order to investigate this hypothesis, McDaniel et al.2 investigated the influence of ketogenic diets on insulin signaling. In this study, they showed that low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets significantly diminish insulin action— and this lack of insulin signaling weakens mTOR's ability to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

GROWTH HORMONE AND IGF-1 FUNCTION ARE DRASTICALLY REDUCED WHILE CONSUMING A KETOGENIC DIET
Growth hormone also integrally participates in mTOR signaling. Since growth hormone is secreted after protein consumption3, the low-protein aspect of the ketogenic diet is further implicated as a potential cause for deficient muscle growth. Consequently, Bielohuby et a1.4 investigated the relationship between growth hormone and ketogenesis. In this study, they demonstrated that the low-carbohydrate aspect of ketogenic diets also leads to a decrease in growth hormone signaling by causing a decrease in the amount of growth hormone receptor levels in the liver. Growth hormone insensitivity in the liver leads to a lack of IGF-1 production, which in turn reduces IGF-1 activation of mTOR, leading to lower protein synthesis levels within muscle cells contributing to muscle atrophy.

HIGH FAT CONSUMPTION FROM THE KETOGENIC DIET ACTIVATES AMPK AND DIMINISHES MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY
Another deleterious consequence that may come from high fat consumption while on a ketogenic diet is the greater amount of fatty acid stored in adipose tissue. The increase in fat storage eventually leads to the release of hormone leptin from the fat cell5, which has been shown to activate the energy-sensing enzyme AMPK in muscle cells and elsewhere.6 AMPK is the cell's master metabolic energy regulator that is typically activated when cellular energy levels are low. However, when high-fat diets— like the ketogenic diet— are consumed, the abundance of fat stored in the fat cell overrides this regulatory principle of AMPK control and triggers AMPK activity, despite the energy status of the cell. AMPK then immediately stimulates fatty acid oxidation. Since AMPK plays such an important role regulating cellular energy, it's no great surprise that AMPK also interacts and regulates mTOR. Moreover, an activated AMPK has been shown to inhibit mTOR function, thus inhibiting muscle protein synthesis and muscle growth. In addition, this increase in adiposity would also lead to a desensitization of the insulin-signaling pathway, which again diminishes the activation of mTOR
.
IDEAL DIET CONTAINS A MORE EVEN BALANCE OF MACRONUTRIENTS THAN FOUND IN THE KETOGENIC DIET
The ideal diet for building muscle and burning body fat apparently does not include extreme approaches such as the ketogenic diet, especially for the athlete and bodybuilder who wants to maximize muscle size and strength while losing body fat.The ketogenic diet's low-carbohydrate feature produces a cellular-energy deficit as the human body preferentially and optimally utilizes carbohydrates as an energy source. Carbohydrate depletion reduces the capacity to perform extremely intense resistance and endurance exercise protocols, which will also decrease the capacity to develop muscle mass and remove body fat. Also, the low-protein attribute of the ketogenic diet forces the utilization of muscle protein as an energy source by breaking down muscle protein into amino acids to burn for energy. This, of course, will drive muscle atrophy as well as deplete strength. Finally, the high fat consumption during the ketogenic diet behaves like a molecular monkey wrench within the muscle tissue— wreaking havoc on several biochemical signaling cascades that negatively influence the proper function of mTOR— depleting muscle mass.

In conclusion, a well-balanced diet with plenty of lean protein to drive muscle protein synthesis with complex carbohydrates to supply plenty of energy during resistance training— along with an economic amount of essential fatty acids for long-term energy during endurance work— seems to be the most effective approach to your nutritional routine.

By Michael J. Rudolph, Ph.D.


References:
1. Bolster DR, Jefferson LS, et al. Proc Nutr Soc 2004;63(2), 351-356.
2. McDaniel SS, Reusing NR, et al. Epilepsia 2011;52(3), e7-11.
3. van Vught AJ, Nieuwenhuizen AG, et al. Eur J Endocrinol 2008;159(1), 15-18.
4. Bielohuby M, Sawitzky M, et al. Endocrinology 2011;152(5), 1948-1960.
5. Jazet IM, Pijl H, et al. Neth J Med 2003;61(6), 194-212.
6. MinokoshiY, KimYB, et al. Nature 2002; 415(6869), 339-343.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

MT1134

I guess it could be done according to others (link provided below) but I don't much about your medical condition.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/building-muscle-on-keto

watts6151

From what I’ve read keto seems fine
For the preservation of muscle but appears
Inferior for hypertrophy for all the reasons @ninerbuff has pointed out. Coupled to your age, hormone levels and eating style I’d say your putting yourself at a disadvantage if hypertrophy is your goal

Reference for those interested

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6724590/

ninerbuff

MT1134 wrote: »

I guess it could be done according to others (link provided below) but I don't much about your medical condition.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/building-muscle-on-keto

Age matters as well. A "college" age male is likely closer to peak hormones compared to a male over 50 not on TRT.


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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

MT1134

ninerbuff wrote: »

MT1134 wrote: »

I guess it could be done according to others (link provided below) but I don't much about your medical condition.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/building-muscle-on-keto

Age matters as well. A "college" age male is likely closer to peak hormones compared to a male over 50 not on TRT.


A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Fair enough. I can't speak to these matters in great depth, however, what you're saying makes sense.

AnnPT77

tsazani wrote: »

Following an OMAD ketogenic diet I have FINALLY achieved my METABOLIC goal of putting my 15 years of DM2 into remission.

This is my diet forever. But.

Is it possible for a 63 year old man to gain muscle mass while eating a ketogenic OMAD diet and taking FINASTERIDE for my enlarged prostate?

Finasteride blocks the conversion of testosterone into di hydroxy testosterone.

I'm curious:

What part(s) of your future plan would change if the answer were "definitely possible" vs. "definitely impossible"? If "impossible" would you not bother to strength train, for example?

What part of your routine would you be willing to change, if it made a major difference in the probability of making mass gains? Keto? OMAD? The prescription drug that may help you avoid health complications?

If you're just wondering, but wouldn't change anything you're currently doing - which seems reasonable because it appears you're committed to it, and finding it useful in various ways - why not just run the experiment at "best reasonable effort' level, and see what results?

Signed,

64-year-old vegetarian woman who thinks progressive strength training is a really good plan

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psuLemon

At the very least, you should consider moving off of OMAD and running a TKD diet. Spreading protein over 3-4 meals will increase MPS. And if you time 30-40g of carbs around your workout it should improve workout performance.

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psuLemon

tsazani wrote: »

I'm going to try the TKD. If my blood sugars go up I'm back to OMAD.

psuLemon wrote: »

At the very least, you should consider moving off of OMAD and running a TKD diet. Spreading protein over 3-4 meals will increase MPS. And if you time 30-40g of carbs around your workout it should improve workout performance.

Getting off OMAD shouldn't effect blood sugar if your primary meals are protein and fats. And timing nutrients around workout should provide the use of those carbs intra workout.

But keto and OMAD is not a good route for muscle gains because there is nothing anabolic about fasting.

Diatonic12

OMAD You can do your own research but newer studies say that it contributes to nutritional deficiencies. There's really not much benefit in eating 2400 calories in one hour of time. So much of this stuff is mental and learning new food skillsets will take you much further into that future than eating all of the things at one time.
Long term weight stability is not easily found. At the 5 year mark, few are left standing with their Maintenance intact.

OMAD is often used as a short-term bandaid for a lifelong struggle with weight and food. An extreme work around or antidote. The struggle is not over when all of the weight releasing is done. It takes years to replace those old behaviors with food.

When the antidote becomes the problem you end up starting over and over and over. Looking for another quick fix to overcompensate for the wild swings back and forth. UP and down.

The OMAD high and the Rebound low. Extremes beget extremes.

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1975greig

You tubes Tristan Lee has been on a keto diet for the last 4/5 years, he looks great and keeps around 5%bf, super ripped. I lost 27 pounds on a keto, which was great, but found it hard to stay under 50 carbs daily for a long period of time. Maybe I'll go back to again sometime.