Don't know if I should gain muscle or lose weight?

paxtonrobinson22

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs. It's not the number that's bothering me it's how I look. Couldn't care less about the number. I just don't know if I need to lose weight or just tone up? I want to be able to see my muscle and I don't know if I need to lose weight for that to happen or can I just jump in to strength training and see results?

http://imgur.com/lpqUSKh

That's the best full body picture I have of myself haha sorry it probably doesn't help.

Thanks!

spamantha57

You want to do both.
Also when you build muscle, you help burn fat.

KarenJanine

It's entirely up to you - would you rather decrease your BF% first or gain muscle first?

Whichever you choose you should be doing some strength training to preserve the muscle you already have.

If building muscle is your priority then you need to eat above TDEE and follow a good strength training programme. Aim to gain around 1lb scale weight per week. As a woman lean muscle gain is limited to around 1lb per month, so a minimum bulk period of 3 months would be recommended to make a difference. Most of the rest of the weight gain will be fat and water, which you can cut later by switching into a calorie deficit after your bulk.

tigersword

Lift heavy, eat at a deficit. You won't see muscle until you lose fat. When bodybuilders go on a bulking diet to build muscle, they lose muscle definition because of the increase in fat, so they go back on a cutting diet to lose the fat.

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

paxtonrobinson22

Thanks guys! I'm totally new to all this as I was an athlete in school so I just was kind of always in shape haha. Your advice is awesome and a total help!

Sean_The_IT_Guy

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You just can't do both at maximum efficiency at the same time. If you're trying to crash diet to get skinny quick (unwise) then you should work on that to exclusion. If you're trying to get massive muscle gains quick (like for competition, or what have you) then you should work on that to exclusion.

If you are overweight (fat) and want to make a healthy lifestyle change to reduce body fat and increase muscle, then eat at the TDEE of a person who's the size you WANT to be, and lift heavy. You'll gradually get stronger and lose body fat and meet in the middle of where you want to be. Then you can see if you want to be more muscular or less fat and adjust calories and lifting accordingly.

tigersword

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You just can't do both at maximum efficiency at the same time. If you're trying to crash diet to get skinny quick (unwise) then you should work on that to exclusion. If you're trying to get massive muscle gains quick (like for competition, or what have you) then you should work on that to exclusion.

If you are overweight (fat) and want to make a healthy lifestyle change to reduce body fat and increase muscle, then eat at the TDEE of a person who's the size you WANT to be, and lift heavy. You'll gradually get stronger and lose body fat and meet in the middle of where you want to be. Then you can see if you want to be more muscular or less fat and adjust calories and lifting accordingly.

False. Noob gains are a possibility for someone who has never exercised, but they are very small and fleeting. Calorie surplus is required for muscle gain, and calorie deficit is required for fat loss. What you're describing is akin to trying to drive your car in forward and reverse at the same time. It's not going to happen.

Atishi87

Lift heavy, eat at a deficit. You won't see muscle until you lose fat. When bodybuilders go on a bulking diet to build muscle, they lose muscle definition because of the increase in fat, so they go back on a cutting diet to lose the fat.

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

^ This

Italia2229

I'm 5'5" and started out at 169 lbs. I now weigh about 155. I am noticing now that I can see my abs a little bit better with the weight lose. I still want to lose some weight, so I am not lifting as heavy as I will when I drop 5 to 10 more lbs. Lose the fat and then tone.

Either way, however you decide to do it, good luck!!!

jetlag

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You just can't do both at maximum efficiency at the same time. If you're trying to crash diet to get skinny quick (unwise) then you should work on that to exclusion. If you're trying to get massive muscle gains quick (like for competition, or what have you) then you should work on that to exclusion.

If you are overweight (fat) and want to make a healthy lifestyle change to reduce body fat and increase muscle, then eat at the TDEE of a person who's the size you WANT to be, and lift heavy. You'll gradually get stronger and lose body fat and meet in the middle of where you want to be. Then you can see if you want to be more muscular or less fat and adjust calories and lifting accordingly.

False. Noob gains are a possibility for someone who has never exercised, but they are very small and fleeting. Calorie surplus is required for muscle gain, and calorie deficit is required for fat loss. What you're describing is akin to trying to drive your car in forward and reverse at the same time. It's not going to happen.

False, actually. You can lose fat and build muscle at the same time, but you have to eat at a small deficit, eat well and work hard (well, that's true for any kind of weight loss).

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

JustAnotherGirlSuzanne

bump

billsica

I say screw the weight loss and concentrate on lifting heavy. You look like one of those girls that would go from a 7 to a 10 with some muscle on you.

cparter

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs. It's not the number that's bothering me it's how I look. Couldn't care less about the number. I just don't know if I need to lose weight or just tone up? I want to be able to see my muscle and I don't know if I need to lose weight for that to happen or can I just jump in to strength training and see results?

http://imgur.com/lpqUSKh

That's the best full body picture I have of myself haha sorry it probably doesn't help.

Thanks!

I disagree with billsica. I say do both. I would say lose about 15 to 20 lbs with a mixture of cardio and weight lifting. I think you will look great (although you do look fine in the picture but I could not tell if you were carrying more meat in your thighs, rear and hips because of the photo. If you are thicker in the things and hip region, I would say you would look better proportioned with the weight loss and weight lifting for strenght and tone. Now if you intent is to be a buff body builder, then you would need to pack on 20 lbs which would greatly exceed your BMI and would have to maintain to keep from becoming a future issue. However, my thoughts are (bottom line) that the 15-20 lbs weight loss as mentioned in sentence two is sufficient for you. Wish you the best and hope you meet all your goals.

cparter

Lift heavy, eat at a deficit. You won't see muscle until you lose fat. When bodybuilders go on a bulking diet to build muscle, they lose muscle definition because of the increase in fat, so they go back on a cutting diet to lose the fat.

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

Don't listen to this. Uninformed. You can do both unless, you are trying to become a body builder.. I have several MFP examples that have succeeded in doing them both at the same time. One of my MFP mates lost over 200 lbs and now is a buff body builder. He became lean and cut at the same time.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Mr_Knight

Aim to gain around 1lb scale weight per week.

That might be a bit ambitious. Assuming a third of that is actual muscle (fat and water are the rest) you're talking about adding 17 pounds of actual muscle over the course of year, which is a very high number.

1-2 pounds a month is a more realistic goal.

Also agree with the other posters - you're highly unlikely to gain any actual muscle mass while on a caloric deficit (ie, losing weight). Maintaining and revealing, yes of course, but adding? Not in meaningful quantity.

tigersword

Lift heavy, eat at a deficit. You won't see muscle until you lose fat. When bodybuilders go on a bulking diet to build muscle, they lose muscle definition because of the increase in fat, so they go back on a cutting diet to lose the fat.

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

Don't listen to this. Uninformed. You can do both unless, you are trying to become a body builder.. I have several MFP examples that have succeeded in doing them both at the same time. One of my MFP mates lost over 200 lbs and now is a buff body builder. He became lean and cut at the same time.

You're aware that muscles exist under fat, right? Losing fat exposes underlying muscle. Getting "ripped" or "cut" is accomplished by lowering body fat, not building muscle. Building muscle actually requires gaining a bit of fat. Just out of curiosity, how many physiology classes and peer reviewed studies have you read about human metabolism, so that you feel you can call me uninformed? Based on your statement, I'd say you've never taken a basic biology course. The body can't build muscle in a calorie deficit. Muscle building is an anabolic process. Calorie deficits put your body in a catobolic state, not anabolic. The body will not build more muscle when it isn't receiving enough calories to support the current level. It just doesn't happen.

Thanks for insulting me, though. Most appreciated.

Also, science trumps "I know a guy," any day.

Also, for the record, if your friend had over 200 pounds to lose, then he already had a lot of muscle mass to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of muscle to move that much weight.

tigersword

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You just can't do both at maximum efficiency at the same time. If you're trying to crash diet to get skinny quick (unwise) then you should work on that to exclusion. If you're trying to get massive muscle gains quick (like for competition, or what have you) then you should work on that to exclusion.

If you are overweight (fat) and want to make a healthy lifestyle change to reduce body fat and increase muscle, then eat at the TDEE of a person who's the size you WANT to be, and lift heavy. You'll gradually get stronger and lose body fat and meet in the middle of where you want to be. Then you can see if you want to be more muscular or less fat and adjust calories and lifting accordingly.

False. Noob gains are a possibility for someone who has never exercised, but they are very small and fleeting. Calorie surplus is required for muscle gain, and calorie deficit is required for fat loss. What you're describing is akin to trying to drive your car in forward and reverse at the same time. It's not going to happen.

False, actually. You can lose fat and build muscle at the same time, but you have to eat at a small deficit, eat well and work hard (well, that's true for any kind of weight loss).

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

No. Considering there aren't any citations, and the numbers used as far as calories were incorrect, I'd say the author is completely full of it there. Building muscle is all about net changes. Your body is constantly building muscle. It's also constantly breaking down muscle. To add new muscle, you need to be able to build more muscle in a day than you lose. On a calorie deficit, that won't happen. You don't have any excess to make it happen. What little amount there is gets used for repair and maintenance of the muscle you have, not toward building new muscle.

rassha01

Lift heavy, eat at a deficit. You won't see muscle until you lose fat. When bodybuilders go on a bulking diet to build muscle, they lose muscle definition because of the increase in fat, so they go back on a cutting diet to lose the fat.

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

Don't listen to this. Uninformed. You can do both unless, you are trying to become a body builder.. I have several MFP examples that have succeeded in doing them both at the same time. One of my MFP mates lost over 200 lbs and now is a buff body builder. He became lean and cut at the same time.

You're aware that muscles exist under fat, right? Losing fat exposes underlying muscle. Getting "ripped" or "cut" is accomplished by lowering body fat, not building muscle. Building muscle actually requires gaining a bit of fat. Just out of curiosity, how many physiology classes and peer reviewed studies have you read about human metabolism, so that you feel you can call me uninformed? Based on your statement, I'd say you've never taken a basic biology course. The body can't build muscle in a calorie deficit. Muscle building is an anabolic process. Calorie deficits put your body in a catobolic state, not anabolic. The body will not build more muscle when it isn't receiving enough calories to support the current level. It just doesn't happen.

Thanks for insulting me, though. Most appreciated.

Also, science trumps "I know a guy," any day.

Also, for the record, if your friend had over 200 pounds to lose, then he already had a lot of muscle mass to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of muscle to move that much weight.

The Op never really said anything about eating at a deficit, so if she ate at TDEE and lifted heavy she could not gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? I guess the whole topic of body recomposition is false than, damn I need to re-check what I am doing!

Brianfau

Since you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time, lift heavy (to retain the muscle you already have) and lose the fat. Then when you reach your desired body fat levels, work on adding calories and building muscle.

you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. You just can't do both at maximum efficiency at the same time. If you're trying to crash diet to get skinny quick (unwise) then you should work on that to exclusion. If you're trying to get massive muscle gains quick (like for competition, or what have you) then you should work on that to exclusion.

If you are overweight (fat) and want to make a healthy lifestyle change to reduce body fat and increase muscle, then eat at the TDEE of a person who's the size you WANT to be, and lift heavy. You'll gradually get stronger and lose body fat and meet in the middle of where you want to be. Then you can see if you want to be more muscular or less fat and adjust calories and lifting accordingly.

False. Noob gains are a possibility for someone who has never exercised, but they are very small and fleeting. Calorie surplus is required for muscle gain, and calorie deficit is required for fat loss. What you're describing is akin to trying to drive your car in forward and reverse at the same time. It's not going to happen.

False, actually. You can lose fat and build muscle at the same time, but you have to eat at a small deficit, eat well and work hard (well, that's true for any kind of weight loss).

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

Science shows that it is possible to LOSE FAT and GAIN MUSCLE at the same time. This actually happens quite often, most modern weight lifters no longer believe in a bulking cycle, but now encompass a diet with supplements that encourage muscle building year round while maintaining lower amounts of fat. Now muscles can be measured in to different ways, mass and strength. It's easier to gain strength while losing fat, but much harder to gain mass, but once again it is possible. If this was not possible you would not have people who gain weight as they are losing fat. Now to GAIN MUSCLE while LOSING WEIGHT is even more difficult, but is also possible. This is because in order to do so you would have to be losing fat at a much higher rate than gaining muscles. This is possible but very unlikely and probably only occurs in those whom start out extremely overweight and out of shape. I know this to be possible, because a few years back I start lifting heavy with intensity for about 40 minutes a day and about 20 mins cardio a day while eating in a very small deficit. I lost nearly 20 lbs in a year, but gained in definition, mass and strength. My neck kept growing and my waist kept getting smaller and my BF% plummeted. The biggest factor was that I ate nothing but lean meats and complex carbs with loads of vegetables that are low in simple sugars. I was doing great until I went back to school and no longer could find time to go to the gym. It was hard, took a lot of effort and even more discipline, but it is possible.

In the case of the original poster, I doubt he will be able to gain muscle while losing weight, but I would suggest eating in a slight surplus of extremely healthy food which encourage muscle growth (ie low glucose and fat, high protein and complex carbs) and slowly increase your intensity while working out at the gym with heavier weights focusing on a few muscle groups each day. If you want to gain definition don't skip out on cardio, but short intense burst or interval training lasting about 15-20 mins will do you more good than a slow even paced 60 min when it comes to definition. With the right intensity you could easily be done in the gym in less than an hour.

On other thing to consider is that by gaining muscles, you increase the efficiency in which you lose fat.

If you are looking for a good program may I suggest MAX-OT or a HIT type program with a P90X type diet.

paleojoe

Hard to tell from the pic but that said, no reason you can not do both at the same time. Diet to lose the fat, lift weights to build and maintain the muscle. Throw some (not too much) cardio in the mix for variety and to strengthen your cardiovascular system.

bcattoes

False, actually. You can lose fat and build muscle at the same time, but you have to eat at a small deficit, eat well and work hard (well, that's true for any kind of weight loss).

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

THANK YOU!! I don't know how many times I've been told this couldn't happen and I was not a "special snowflake". Yet I did it (BF% and inches decreased but gained a couple of pounds and increased strength).

It took at while but it can be done.

SkinnyMsFitness

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs. It's not the number that's bothering me it's how I look. Couldn't care less about the number. I just don't know if I need to lose weight or just tone up? I want to be able to see my muscle and I don't know if I need to lose weight for that to happen or can I just jump in to strength training and see results?

http://imgur.com/lpqUSKh

That's the best full body picture I have of myself haha sorry it probably doesn't help.

Thanks!

Honestly, you probably could lose a little more, by toning or cardio. I'm 5'7 and our healthy weight is 120-150. (http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1108048103230.html). Personally, I want to get to 140 & I'm at 172 today. I'm going to continue to lose until maybe 150 then I'll work on toning. Toning your muscles does help burn fat/cals, even while inactive so you can target problem areas with it. I guess it's up to your discretion...sorry to say, pic doesn't help too much! lol

40andFindingFitness

I always thought you could only do one or the other except when an overweight person (like myself) first begins working out and both occur because you're being active. Don't quote me though, I just started and I'm a noobie at all of this.

WONDERCECI

As women we stand to benefit more from weight training, especially with retaining calcium in our bones and muscle relieves joint problems as well. Make sure you balance your protein intake.

smalls9686

I can only tell you what has worked best for me =-) I have done it both ways build muscle at the same time as doing lots of cardio or lots of cardios first then stength training both have pros and cons. For me I need to see results, and fairly quickly or I will not stick with it, when you have lots of fat and you are building muscle you aren't going to see results as fast because you have fat covering them (the muscles up.) For me, I prefer the 2nd. I like to do light stength training on all major muscle groups twice a week (nothing heavy!) but enough to make sure I am keeping the muscles strong, healthy, and that they aren't being broken down and being used as fuel by all my heavy cardio work (hint, I take a small 2.5oz/28 gram protein 128 calorie suppliment right after all my big cardio workouts.) Once I am within 10-15 lbs of my goal weight then I up my strength training majorily. I train specific muscle groups (large, small, specific, and stablizers) heavily 3 times a week.

***So for example I did this before and I weighted 120 and wore a size 6, which was close to my "ideal" weight. I started training heavy with weights as I decribed and making sure to have an additional 35-60 grams protein on training days. I dropped another 8lbs but I got down to a size 1 or 2 sometimes 0! Muscles are more dense than fat so they take up 1/3 of the amount of space. I saw those results in about 45-60 days. That's what worked for me. JMHO

I'm 5'7" and 165 lbs. It's not the number that's bothering me it's how I look. Couldn't care less about the number. I just don't know if I need to lose weight or just tone up? I want to be able to see my muscle and I don't know if I need to lose weight for that to happen or can I just jump in to strength training and see results?

http://imgur.com/lpqUSKh

That's the best full body picture I have of myself haha sorry it probably doesn't help.

Thanks!

Wetcoaster

Here is what Layne Norton says about it.......


MP: You have often said that it is not impossible but very counterproductive to build muscle and burn fat at the same time. How do you suggest to our beginners for how to get a totally conditioned physique such as yourself.

LN: Well I think certain people can build muscle and burn fat at the same time and they general fall into 3 groups: 1) beginners 2) very obese people and 3) those using steroids or illicit lipolytics or a combination of any 3 of those. But if a person has been training hard for a few years and is very good with their nutrition and aren’t 35% bodyfat, they aren’t going to burn fat and build muscle at the same time most likely. It would be EXTREMELY unlikely to happen.


Also.................

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Sean_The_IT_Guy

LN: Well I think certain people can build muscle and burn fat at the same time and they general fall into 3 groups: 1) beginners 2) very obese people and 3) those using steroids or illicit lipolytics or a combination of any 3 of those. But if a person has been training hard for a few years and is very good with their nutrition and aren’t 35% bodyfat, they aren’t going to burn fat and build muscle at the same time most likely. It would be EXTREMELY unlikely to happen.

I'm not sure if you were trying to counter what I, and others, have said about it being possible to do both at the same time, but I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

Here's the thing. Most people who ask questions like this are 1: beginners and 2: obese.

Telling a fat newbie that they can't do both at the same time is not helpful, because it makes them feel like they need either to go on a calorie restricted diet to lose fat OR eat a surplus and lift heavy to gain muscle. If you lift heavy AND eat at a slight deficit, an obese starter will be happier with the results than one who does either/or.

When you have been lifting for long enough to no longer be a beginner, 6-8 months or more, to pull a number out of my bottom, then maybe you have to look into what you want to do to get to the next level. In 6-8 months of eating at a slight deficit, that fat beginner has probably also dropped enough fat to see muscles they never knew were there all along and they'll have a solid foundation of lifting and proper form to enable them to catapult themselves into the next level, if thats where they want to be.

To OP: You can do both. If you want to be stronger and you have a lot of body fat you don't want anymore, You should do both.

WendyTerry420

LN: Well I think certain people can build muscle and burn fat at the same time and they general fall into 3 groups: 1) beginners 2) very obese people and 3) those using steroids or illicit lipolytics or a combination of any 3 of those. But if a person has been training hard for a few years and is very good with their nutrition and aren’t 35% bodyfat, they aren’t going to burn fat and build muscle at the same time most likely. It would be EXTREMELY unlikely to happen.

I'm not sure if you were trying to counter what I, and others, have said about it being possible to do both at the same time, but I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

Here's the thing. Most people who ask questions like this are 1: beginners and 2: obese.

Telling a fat newbie that they can't do both at the same time is not helpful, because it makes them feel like they need either to go on a calorie restricted diet to lose fat OR eat a surplus and lift heavy to gain muscle. If you lift heavy AND eat at a slight deficit, an obese starter will be happier with the results than one who does either/or.

When you have been lifting for long enough to no longer be a beginner, 6-8 months or more, to pull a number out of my bottom, then maybe you have to look into what you want to do to get to the next level. In 6-8 months of eating at a slight deficit, that fat beginner has probably also dropped enough fat to see muscles they never knew were there all along and they'll have a solid foundation of lifting and proper form to enable them to catapult themselves into the next level, if thats where they want to be.

To OP: You can do both. If you want to be stronger and you have a lot of body fat you don't want anymore, You should do both.

This response makes a lot of sense for beginners. And you're right, most of the people asking this, especially in MFP forums, are overweight beginners, for whom this type of training is highly beneficial.

paleojoe

LN is also talking about body builders... not average people looking to lean out and tone up. Remember context counts...

BlueBombers

You should do BOTH