my doc says don't eat exercise calories??????

Rugbychick16

You also need to consider the fact that MFP is trying to teach us a new way to eat FOR LIFE and not just to lose weight.

Well said! :flowerforyou:

Tammysjourney

According to the diabetic exchange diet, I should be eating 1600 calories a day. According to this site I should be eating 1800 a day. According to my physical trainer, I should be eating 1800 a day 5 days a week and 2000 2 days a week. Eating more calories every 3 or 4 days keeps your body guessing and it doesnt get into any digestion or matabolism habits. She didnt mention anything about eating my exercise calories. I had plateaued at 1600, and the trainer told me this a week ago, so I will do this for 2 weeks and see how things go. I have been doing more like 1600 five days a week and 1800 twice a week. I guess if I'm still not losing, I will increase it to 1800 and 2000 but I just can't get the mindset of eating that many calories and losing.

batty5

I know what you mean about condiments which is why I rarely use them but add them & measure them if I do. No sugar or sugar substitutes added to things because I never have liked them. My food scales are permanently in use too & weigh in grams.
May be I should also have said that I did see a dietician when I first started to gain weight, this was soon after a drastic life change due to poor health & she was horrified that I wasn't losing weight on what I was eating. Now strangely I tried a 3 day diet which was only 800 calories & I lost weight but felt ill & due to my stomach problems I am supposed to eat often but guess it is a matter of trial & error so when I find a solution will let you now.

mooz

Also, with all due respect, doctors only get about 2 classes worth of nutrition, so they are certainly not the experts in regards to what one should do with exercise calories

uh, and how many nutritional classes have people on MFP taken? /sarcasm
The information that medical school students get is enough for them to give great advice on nutrition.

I totally disagree. I have heard this right from the mouth of doctors, that they are not qualified to give any but basic advice on nutrition. They do not get enough training in it to be considered 'experts'.

And i have taken several nutrition classes, which is one of the reasons I can state this with certainty, in addition to having conversations with numerous doctors (who have been in practice for several years).

I think it really depends on the doctor. Mine has taken several courses on nutrition to the point where he is specializing in it as part of his practice and has been given a specialization designation by the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons [governing body for doctors here in Ontario] because he saw an influx of people in his office with not only weight issues but food related issues like diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc.... He thought the best way to treat them was to teach them. I wouldn't trust anyone else except him to give me the best advice on nutrition because I know his background.

recipe4success

Also, with all due respect, doctors only get about 2 classes worth of nutrition, so they are certainly not the experts in regards to what one should do with exercise calories

uh, and how many nutritional classes have people on MFP taken? /sarcasm
The information that medical school students get is enough for them to give great advice on nutrition.

I totally disagree. I have heard this right from the mouth of doctors, that they are not qualified to give any but basic advice on nutrition. They do not get enough training in it to be considered 'experts'.

And i have taken several nutrition classes, which is one of the reasons I can state this with certainty, in addition to having conversations with numerous doctors (who have been in practice for several years).

I think it really depends on the doctor. Mine has taken several courses on nutrition to the point where he is specializing in it as part of his practice and has been given a specialization designation by the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons [governing body for doctors here in Ontario] because he saw an influx of people in his office with not only weight issues but food related issues like diabetes, cancer, heart disease, etc.... He thought the best way to treat them was to teach them. I wouldn't trust anyone else except him to give me the best advice on nutrition because I know his background.

That is because your doctor took it upon themselves to take extra classes in nutrition. I would say 95% do not. If you know for a fact that your doctor has extra specialization in this area, then yes of course they are qualified to give detailed nutritional advice. But the classes a doctor takes as part of med school do not make them a nutrition expert.

beautyqueen1979

May I make a suggestion? I watched an interesting BBC program on weight loss and they showed that on average, people under-report their calories, even when keeping a food journal. In a case study, there was a woman who swore up and down that she ate well between 1100-1200 calories but couldn't lose weight and blamed her lack of progress to a slow metabolism.

Her metabolism tested to be almost on the spot normal, so she was asked to do one week of keeping a video diary where she recalled everything she ate at the end of the day, and the next week, writing down what she ate in a food journal immediately after each meal. Since she said she's always eaten between 1100-1200 cal, she was asked not to change her typical meal plan but continue as usual. Her urine was also tested daily to reveal exactly how many calories she did happen to eat.

Her results? Her urine samples showed that she actually ate over 3000 cal/day. She underreported her calories in the video diary by over 60%, and underreported her calories in the food journal by 43%.

This is not to say that this is what happened in your case, only that the majority of us don't really recall or incorrectly estimate our food intake. Keeping a food journal is still the best thing to do statistically, but before worrying about exercise calories or whatnot - if I were in your situation - I would carefully examine how accurately I am recording my calories. No one is asking for 100% accuracy, but as in the example above, she was eating over twice as many calories as she genuinely thought she was, by not accounting for the little mindless snacks she had, or the quantity of food and portion sizes she was having.

Having a food scale greatly helped me and honestly, surprised the heck out of me at how much food weighs! I bought mine at Ralph's for a reasonable price, and while I don't weigh every single morsel, it has helped in "re-calibrating" my food expectations.

I have only recently started weighing food (specifically things like cereals, rice and pasta) and had no idea how big my portion sizes were. I was eating nearly 2 portions of pasta or rice when I thought it was 1. Been an eye-opener!! My portions were HUGE! :noway:

dharmachic

Actually I keep my journal after each meal & weigh my portions so know I do not under estimate my intake.

OK, I just read in your profile that you were "vaguely counting calories" for 2 years and I would hate to tell you to deprive yourself of even more food, so thought I would throw that suggestion out. No worries.

Your profile states that you are taking medication that could cause weight gain, so you could be going against greater forces. Just please be aware that reducing your calories too much for too long a period will eventually cause your body to be acclimated to the little amount of food you are putting in, and will slow down your metabolism accordingly, which will stunt your weight loss even more.

Have you tried adding resistance training to your regimen to build some lean muscle to boost your metabolism instead? You can only reduce your calorie intake by so much, so burning those calories will increase the calorie deficit your doctor is talking about.

Even walking is beneficial because physical activity will increase your afterburn and raise metabolism. I would rather exercise more than eat less to increase my calorie deficit.

EDIT: I just read that you swim so you are incorporating aerobic exercise. I'd still want to add some resistance training to build muscle because that is what will keep burning calories even after you exercise, increasing your afterburn effect. And change up your exercise regimen every 3-4 weeks because once your body gets used to the same routine, it will adjust to become more efficient aka burn as few calories as possible.

batty5

ps Wanted to say so many thanks cos just talking about my frustration helps. As my doc said today I have so many medical problems that it makes things difficult especially as nothing can be done any more about any of them. I am fighting to stay out of the wheelchair the docs booked for me 5 years ago & I AM NO QUITTER so will get there but may be not by my target date!

batty5

I WISH but due to medical problems can only exercise in deep water which I do for minimum of 5 hours per week, even now while injured.

dharmachic

Okay, last suggestion, I promise : could your doctor recommend a physical therapist you can speak to about what KINDS of resistance training you can do in your condition so that you are not simply relegated to what you are doing now? Because even if your medical condition doesn't warrant it, your body (as far as weight loss goes) doesn't care and will adjust to burn as few calories with the same routine.

And by changing up your routine, you could still stay in the water and challenge different types of muscles. I think aqua exercise is not limited in that way. I just googled this site: http://www.inch-aweigh.com/waterexercise.html and it has some good suggestions to change things up, and you could adjust accordingly to your medical condition.

Point is: Reducing calorie intake can only work for so long and you will hit a point where you absolutely cannot reduce any more without endangering yourself and creating serious health concerns. On the other hand, exercise (particularly resistance training) and the amount of calories you can burn is unlimited and you can spend the rest of your life changing and modifying that variable to increase your body's fat burning abilities. You mentioned that you lost weight by reducing your calorie intake to 800 but you were miserable. I don't know how much you're eating, but my humble opinion isn't that you are eating too much, but burning too few calories to create a sufficient calorie deficit. If you can't spend more time in the pool, try to gradually increase your daily activity level as much as you are able to - i.e. walk in place while talking on the phone, doing dishes or doing any activity where you normally would be standing or sitting. You can burn as much as 200 calories from making simple changes like this in your daily life which will increase your calorie deficit.

leavinglasvegas

MFP is a great tool and has clearly worked for many people. Our doctors know us better than anyone on these boards, provided we are fully honest with them and that they are qualified. Ultimately its up to us to make sure they are qualified. If you are going to him and feel that he is qualified, then listen to him. Just question HIM, pick his brain, find out why he said not to eat the calories. Make sure he is fully aware of MFP and the who, what, and why.

My doctor and dietician told me the same thing. BUT, I was closely monitored and it was only temporary. That was my treatment, not the way it works in general, because I had some endocrine issues. It wasn't like they said eat 1200 calories, burn 500 a day and we'll see you next year at your next physical if you want to come. I saw him regularly, he monitored my food diary, and did regular bloodwork to make sure my nutrient needs were being met. Now, even though I haven't met my goal weight, he says eat the extra cals and follow MFP. Depending on where you are in your plan, things can change from a medical standpoint. Thats a garauntee.

4 million people can reply to this thread and tell you your doctor is either a genius or a moron and provide proof as to why. But nobody on here knows your medical history or life circumstance.

If you don't understand why your doctor gave you the orders he did, then ask him why. If you still question his advice, get a second opinion. If he can't make the time to talk to you in detail, get a new doctor.

EDIT: To confess that I didn't read all the responses before posting.....

batty5

Thanks I'm going to that site right now for ideas. I keep changing my in pool routine, much to the amusement of other users :laugh: so we have a few laughs along the way which has to be good . The workout classes are in the shallow end so no good for me ( & they banned me for being hyperactive!!!) but I follow some of their moves in the deep end & I stay in twice as long as they do working out. Water is the one place where my joints don't hurt so much so then I have to be careful not to stretch too much or I will dislocate something which I do regularly at home !!!

dharmachic

Thanks I'm going to that site right now for ideas. I keep changing my in pool routine, much to the amusement of other users :laugh: so we have a few laughs along the way which has to be good . The workout classes are in the shallow end so no good for me ( & they banned me for being hyperactive!!!) but I follow some of their moves in the deep end & I stay in twice as long as they do working out. Water is the one place where my joints don't hurt so much so then I have to be careful not to stretch too much or I will dislocate something which I do regularly at home !!!

Good deal. I second someone else's idea to invest in a heart rate monitor or bodybugg to see how many calories you're burning. Once you see those numbers, I swear, something clicks in your head where you start to add a little physical activity here and there to keep that number climbing up! You can find some good deals on eBay for less than $100.

jrich1

Thats what my doc says too. I THOUGHT people were full of baloney to say to eat exercise cals so I asked my doc. My doc says that people who say that just want permission to overeat. Do NOT eat your exercies cals!

But if I do a workout and burn off everything I have eaten for the day and I am currently in the negative, I have to eat something or I starve my body (have this happen when I do hard workouts)

I have come home before with 1200 eaten so far with the day and 1400 burned in the workout = -200 cals net

Hathor

I have two suggestions if you aren't already doing them.

HRM - get one. The calorie burn they have on MFP is very general and will vary from person to person.

Food scale - get one. Gussing at you portion size is one of the biggest mistakes that people do. Do you really now what an ounce of cheese, or meat looks like? You'd be surprised!

I usually leave some calories on the table when the day is done, but I eat most of my exercise calories, and no, I'm not looking to 'over eat' like the previous poster suggested. Ha!

Two excellent bits of advice! The reason a lot of people overeat is due to portion control. The ONLY reason I know that I have lost weight is due to measuring everything I eat. It is quite shocking how a heaped measure compared to the level measure can add more calories to the portion! ans yes I eat my exercise calories my body needs the fuel else you start losing muscle rather than body fat.

S_H84

Also, with all due respect, doctors only get about 2 classes worth of nutrition, so they are certainly not the experts in regards to what one should do with exercise calories

uh, and how many nutritional classes have people on MFP taken? /sarcasm
The information that medical school students get is enough for them to give great advice on nutrition.

Personally, I would give it a try what your doctor said. Maybe your setting is also wrong on here ( in regards to how much you want to loose etc). Maybe you are not working out enough, eating the right things, etc. There are so many variables.

There are days where I eat my exercise calories, because I feel my body needs it, on other days I don't eat them. My husband is a marathon runner and doesn't eat (all) his exercise calories. It is more important to give your body the nutrition that it needs than ensuring you eat the exercise calories.....

Good luck.

A recent study from the New England Journal of Medicine found that 80 % of doctors that replied to a survey failed a basic nutrition exam. That good enough?

I actually looked through the NE Journal of Medicine site and couldn't find the survey. Would you mind providing a link for it?

Also, just as a clarification to my comment: I would follow my doctor's advice over the advice that somebody gave me on here. It is a great site and all but it is still an INTERNET site and people say stuff that they cannot back up.

godblessourhome

Actually I keep my journal after each meal & weigh my portions so know I do not under estimate my intake.

my doc and dietician have me on 1288 calories a day eating plan and not eating my exercise calories. after about 2 years with no loss, this has started to work for me (the first entire year doing it, i lost ZERO pounds). keep on working at it; eventually you *will* see results.

p.s. i know my situation is not typical, so i am not saying that this will work for everyone. or even that they should follow what i am doing. just offering some solidarity. been there, had that frustration.

kah78

Hey, I'd follow the Dr.s advice---they are seeing you specifically. If it doesn't work and you still aren't losing weight, then perhaps go back and revisit the exercise calorie issue. Overall, I'd go with the person in charge of your health over a website with predesigned parameters (as good as they have been for me on my journey). Different things work for different people. I pretty much have to eat mine...I just can't seem to make it through the day without them..too hungry! It seems to be working for me--slowly but surely, so I'll keep it up!

jennylynn84

Thats what my doc says too. I THOUGHT people were full of baloney to say to eat exercise cals so I asked my doc. My doc says that people who say that just want permission to overeat. Do NOT eat your exercies cals!

But if I do a workout and burn off everything I have eaten for the day and I am currently in the negative, I have to eat something or I starve my body (have this happen when I do hard workouts)

I have come home before with 1200 eaten so far with the day and 1400 burned in the workout = -200 cals net

I have to agree. It's not an excuse to "overeat."

I can burn around 600 cals EASILY in a workout. If I really only ate the 1300 that MFP gets me that would put me at 700. Regardless of what anyone does or does not believe about starvation mode (not starting that here) I'd fall flat on my face on the racquetball court if I tried to work out every day like that on that little amount of nutrition. Bodies need fuel. The more work the more fuel!

Edit to add: If it really was just an excuse to overeat, then why do people who have a more active lifestyle (i.e. manual labor jobs and such) get a higher base calorie allotment than me with my desk job? It's all about how much you make your body do all day.

stormieweather

I posted this elsewhere a bit ago, but my MD has a side business in weight loss and plastic surgery. He basically sells injections and pills. And then surgery to fix up your saggy skin. That's his method...never mind eating properly, etc. Just take his $65 a week injections and watch the weight fall off...no thanks, I want ot KEEP it off, tyvm.

auttyfrmca

Another thing to keep in mind is that the calorie amounts given by MFP for exercise are not very accurate, so you may actually be burning less or more than what it says. Of course if you are using a heart rate monitor (not sure if you are) then you can be confident that your numbers are as accurate as possible.

If you made your diary public i'd be happy to take a peek at it for you.

So I was talking with a friend about nutrition....a friend who is in fitness competitions and who I find very knowledgeable in the field. She told me that I'm probably not burning anywhere close to the amount of calories thatI think I am when I'm doing body combat. I've been doing it for so long I probably burn 400-500 calories. (I know I need a HRM but financially it can wait) On here it says closer to 650 and that's what instructors tell the people in class. But they leave out that if you are doing it for a long time it's not the same calorie burn that it was when you first started. Totally bummed me out!

cparter

This is a great topic. I would say it depends. First thing I would look at is setting your profile here to lose 1.5 to 2 lbs a week. I prefer the 1.5 a week myself. Then look at what the calories are that MFP recommends based on your occupation lifte style minus your work out. So, to ensure you get a good idea choose sedentary. From there you have to see if it affects you based on input vs output. It is different for everyone but there is a starvation mode. Meaning that if the chart says eat 1500 calories and you are burning 1200 a day then 300 is not enough to survive on. However, you can try it and if you are still not losing weight take a look at the balance. MFD lays out your DV% quite well so try to stick as close as possible to that. You may need to experiment to make that perfect mix but do not be discouraged. If I could look at your food diary and exercise diary I could give you more insight.

auttyfrmca

YES!!!! My doctor said the same. Just this week I went to a medical weight loss center to sign up and the physician there said to go down to a 1000 calorie diet - as opposed to the 1200 the MFP gave me - and she said that no matter how much I work out, I should still only take in the 1000 calories a day....this confused me because MFP says that "if you keep your calories this low your body will go into starvation mode" - the important thing she said also is to slightly vary how many calories you take in each day - 950, 1050, 1000, etc - to keep your body guessing. Wow! Now I know why i have hit a plateau......I thought if i burned an extra 400 calories then it meant I could have a little extra that day or a treat :sad: Yikes!! But I am going to follow my doctor's advice since I am under her care specifically for this medical weight loss program.

first, you should never use your own anecdotal situation to advise others (give anecdotes as examples of outcome, not as guidelines for others). Second, you should never advise others to use a program that has been built and relies upon expert supervision, let the expert give that advice. Telling others to go to a 1000 calorie plan just because you are on a medically supervised 1000 calorie diet is not good advice.
third, we have no idea what your situation is, therefore we have no idea why the doctor would have advised this for you. If you're going to advise a 1000 calorie diet, at least give us your complete situation, numbers, activity schedule, the doctor's reasoning. In other words a complete consultation.

I don't think this was given advice for other MFP members but what is for that person seeking help from that Dr. In no way did I understand it as something I should be doing. just saying!

cparter

Also, with all due respect, doctors only get about 2 classes worth of nutrition, so they are certainly not the experts in regards to what one should do with exercise calories

uh, and how many nutritional classes have people on MFP taken? /sarcasm
The information that medical school students get is enough for them to give great advice on nutrition.

Personally, I would give it a try what your doctor said. Maybe your setting is also wrong on here ( in regards to how much you want to loose etc). Maybe you are not working out enough, eating the right things, etc. There are so many variables.

There are days where I eat my exercise calories, because I feel my body needs it, on other days I don't eat them. My husband is a marathon runner and doesn't eat (all) his exercise calories. It is more important to give your body the nutrition that it needs than ensuring you eat the exercise calories.....

Good luck.

Great analogy.

cparter

My activity style is set to sedentary as cannot walk much due to health issues but I swim at least 5 hours weekly & once in the pool I swim as fast as I can for either an hour or hour & half usually breaststroke but currently aqua jogging due to an injury & usually eat about half my exercise calories but obviously they must be too much for me.

Seeing this comment, I would say stick to the calories suggested and for you, do not eat your exercise calories. Maintain the calories taken in as your doctor recommended and track within 5 weeks to see if it makes a difference. Will not hurt.

SHBoss1673

I don't think this was given advice for other MFP members but what is for that person seeking help from that Dr. In no way did I understand it as something I should be doing. just saying!

my appologies, I quoted the wrong post. I don't know how that happened. Sorry about that.

Azdak

I use a heart rate monitor to see how many calories I am actually burning vs MFP calories.. Majority of the time MFP is off.. Depending on the amount I burn I will usually eat half my exercise calories.

Hope this helps!

How do you know MFP is "off"? Because the number of calories is different than an HRM?

I still find it amazing that people will be so skeptical of machine and table calories, yet accept an HRM's number (a device about which they know almost nothing) as "truth" without any question at all.

(BTW, I would never use MFP calories either--but that doesn't mean your HRM reading is any more accurate).

Azdak

Another thing to keep in mind is that the calorie amounts given by MFP for exercise are not very accurate, so you may actually be burning less or more than what it says. Of course if you are using a heart rate monitor (not sure if you are) then you can be confident that your numbers are as accurate as possible.

If you made your diary public i'd be happy to take a peek at it for you.

So I was talking with a friend about nutrition....a friend who is in fitness competitions and who I find very knowledgeable in the field. She told me that I'm probably not burning anywhere close to the amount of calories thatI think I am when I'm doing body combat. I've been doing it for so long I probably burn 400-500 calories. (I know I need a HRM but financially it can wait) On here it says closer to 650 and that's what instructors tell the people in class. But they leave out that if you are doing it for a long time it's not the same calorie burn that it was when you first started. Totally bummed me out!

Class instructors have as much, if not more, incentive to "inflate" their calorie estimates as equipment manufacturers.

BrattyLori

The truth is NOT harsh. What IS harsh is when people just let other people flounder and suffer in their denial. To just shrug your shoulders, say, "Whatever works for you" and walk away is uncaring. It's just saying, "Oh well - I dont care WHAT you do."

People can make excuses about why they should overeat by pretending they "NEED" to eat their exercise calories - because eating is pleasurable and solves a lot of emotional problems and we rely on food and we want it so let's tell each other its ok to eat! People can get angry when someone points out the illogic of that thinking. Its all DENIAL. All of us who have been significantly overweight understand exactly what that is.

NONE OF US will lose weight until we eat less calories, consistently, than we burn. To tell a beautiful lady who weighs over 300 lbs that she'll go into starvation mode if she eats less than she burns up is PREPOSTEROUS and cruel and its keeping her down. I am a better friend than that. I care very much about my friends and I will tell them to truth when they ask me.

Let's help each other!

recipe4success

MFP already calculates your daily calorie total to be at a deficit of what your body needs. If you exercise, the deficit gets bigger, and therefore you can eat more and still lose weight.