Dietitians say counting calories bad
Replies
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msalicia07 wrote: »msalicia07
Well done if you have succeeded, I would argue with the 99.99 percent success rate though with your suggested method. But if it works for you amazing.
The method is CICO. Unless you have one of the rarest conditions in the world, it will work because that's physiology. There wasn't a single obese case in any POW situation ever recorded in the history of the earth. Why? Because human physiology determines you will lose weight in a calorie deficit. This is not debatable, it is a fact. And it doesn't matter what the individual eats as long as they're in a deficit. To maintain weight loss, however, it's best to have a diet that you can sustain and enjoy. You cannot provide evidence that someone will gain fat in a deficit, no matter what they ate, because no such evidence exists. I'll wait.
I can't argue with that. If there is calorie deficit one will lose weight. The problem arises though when I try to calculate accurately what my BMR rate is. I found that for me anyway the BMR is not an absolute figure but constantly changing for me almost on a weekly basis if I look at the scale. That's why I dont really like to only depend on what my alleged BMR is because I just dont trust the figure. As a consequence I find it difficult to calculate where my calorie deficit begins. For me it is essential what I actually put in to lose weight and hope for the best I am in calorie deficit. But that is me, if you can lose weight eating what you really like hats off congrats.
That’s on you for not logging correctly, applying your TDEE, adding any extra exercise calories outside of what is already accounted for, then tracking your trend on something like Libra or an excel doc.
If you need help we would be happy to steer you in the right direction. It sounds like you just don’t know how to properly track and measure. It’s an extremely common mistake and one we all fall victim to from time to time.6 -
msalicia07 wrote: »msalicia07
Well done if you have succeeded, I would argue with the 99.99 percent success rate though with your suggested method. But if it works for you amazing.
The method is CICO. Unless you have one of the rarest conditions in the world, it will work because that's physiology. There wasn't a single obese case in any POW situation ever recorded in the history of the earth. Why? Because human physiology determines you will lose weight in a calorie deficit. This is not debatable, it is a fact. And it doesn't matter what the individual eats as long as they're in a deficit. To maintain weight loss, however, it's best to have a diet that you can sustain and enjoy. You cannot provide evidence that someone will gain fat in a deficit, no matter what they ate, because no such evidence exists. I'll wait.
I can't argue with that. If there is calorie deficit one will lose weight. The problem arises though when I try to calculate accurately what my BMR rate is. I found that for me anyway the BMR is not an absolute figure but constantly changing for me almost on a weekly basis if I look at the scale. That's why I dont really like to only depend on what my alleged BMR is because I just dont trust the figure. As a consequence I find it difficult to calculate where my calorie deficit begins. For me it is essential what I actually put in to lose weight and hope for the best I am in calorie deficit. But that is me, if you can lose weight eating what you really like hats off congrats.
You aren't understanding what BMR is, it's not your maintenance calories unless you are at total rest all day and in a fasted state.
You seem to be confusing TDEE and BMR.
On top of that, your TDEE isn't something you can calculate on a weekly basis. It takes several weeks (at least a month) to eliminate the 'noise' from weight fluctuations (water weight, food waste,...) and determine your true weight trend.7 -
msalicia07 wrote: »msalicia07
Well done if you have succeeded, I would argue with the 99.99 percent success rate though with your suggested method. But if it works for you amazing.
The method is CICO. Unless you have one of the rarest conditions in the world, it will work because that's physiology. There wasn't a single obese case in any POW situation ever recorded in the history of the earth. Why? Because human physiology determines you will lose weight in a calorie deficit. This is not debatable, it is a fact. And it doesn't matter what the individual eats as long as they're in a deficit. To maintain weight loss, however, it's best to have a diet that you can sustain and enjoy. You cannot provide evidence that someone will gain fat in a deficit, no matter what they ate, because no such evidence exists. I'll wait.
I can't argue with that. If there is calorie deficit one will lose weight. The problem arises though when I try to calculate accurately what my BMR rate is. I found that for me anyway the BMR is not an absolute figure but constantly changing for me almost on a weekly basis if I look at the scale. That's why I dont really like to only depend on what my alleged BMR is because I just dont trust the figure. As a consequence I find it difficult to calculate where my calorie deficit begins. For me it is essential what I actually put in to lose weight and hope for the best I am in calorie deficit. But that is me, if you can lose weight eating what you really like hats off congrats.
You aren't understanding what BMR is, it's not your maintenance calories unless you are at total rest all day and in a fasted state.
You seem to be confusing TDEE and BMR.
On top of that, your TDEE isn't something you can calculate on a weekly basis. It takes several weeks (at least a month) to eliminate the 'noise' from weight fluctuations (water weight, food waste,...) and determine your true weight trend.
Ayup, that ^^^^.
Because this: vvvv.
https://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations
And if you buy into the common misapprehension that calorie "calculator" estimates will be spot on for every single person . . . multiple this/that by a factor of ten or so.
Start with a "calculator" estimate (MFP for pre-exercise calories, TDEE calc for calories including exercise). Follow that recommendation for at least a month (at least one full menstrual cycle for premenopausal women, though 2 is better, so you can compare body weights at the same relative point in *at least* two different menstrual cycles). Log with really good logging practices the whole time (minimize generic or other people's "homemade" entries, confirm data all foods you eat the first time you log them, use a food scale as often as practical, estimate on the high side when you have no alternative, log exercise carefully if using MFP NEAT method, etc.) Then adjust.
Freaking out and changing routine after a few days, even a couple of weeks: Fools' game.8 -
msalicia07 wrote: »msalicia07
Well done if you have succeeded, I would argue with the 99.99 percent success rate though with your suggested method. But if it works for you amazing.
The method is CICO. Unless you have one of the rarest conditions in the world, it will work because that's physiology. There wasn't a single obese case in any POW situation ever recorded in the history of the earth. Why? Because human physiology determines you will lose weight in a calorie deficit. This is not debatable, it is a fact. And it doesn't matter what the individual eats as long as they're in a deficit. To maintain weight loss, however, it's best to have a diet that you can sustain and enjoy. You cannot provide evidence that someone will gain fat in a deficit, no matter what they ate, because no such evidence exists. I'll wait.
I can't argue with that. If there is calorie deficit one will lose weight. The problem arises though when I try to calculate accurately what my BMR rate is. I found that for me anyway the BMR is not an absolute figure but constantly changing for me almost on a weekly basis if I look at the scale. That's why I dont really like to only depend on what my alleged BMR is because I just dont trust the figure. As a consequence I find it difficult to calculate where my calorie deficit begins. For me it is essential what I actually put in to lose weight and hope for the best I am in calorie deficit. But that is me, if you can lose weight eating what you really like hats off congrats.
You aren't understanding what BMR is, it's not your maintenance calories unless you are at total rest all day and in a fasted state.
You seem to be confusing TDEE and BMR.
On top of that, your TDEE isn't something you can calculate on a weekly basis. It takes several weeks (at least a month) to eliminate the 'noise' from weight fluctuations (water weight, food waste,...) and determine your true weight trend.
This plus if you exercise inconsistently your average weekly TDEE is going to be higher on a higher exercise week, which is why for such people logging exercise separately and adding to TDEE without intentional exercise can work better.4 -
msalicia07 wrote: »msalicia07
Well done if you have succeeded, I would argue with the 99.99 percent success rate though with your suggested method. But if it works for you amazing.
The method is CICO. Unless you have one of the rarest conditions in the world, it will work because that's physiology. There wasn't a single obese case in any POW situation ever recorded in the history of the earth. Why? Because human physiology determines you will lose weight in a calorie deficit. This is not debatable, it is a fact. And it doesn't matter what the individual eats as long as they're in a deficit. To maintain weight loss, however, it's best to have a diet that you can sustain and enjoy. You cannot provide evidence that someone will gain fat in a deficit, no matter what they ate, because no such evidence exists. I'll wait.
I can't argue with that. If there is calorie deficit one will lose weight. The problem arises though when I try to calculate accurately what my BMR rate is. I found that for me anyway the BMR is not an absolute figure but constantly changing for me almost on a weekly basis if I look at the scale. That's why I dont really like to only depend on what my alleged BMR is because I just dont trust the figure. As a consequence I find it difficult to calculate where my calorie deficit begins. For me it is essential what I actually put in to lose weight and hope for the best I am in calorie deficit. But that is me, if you can lose weight eating what you really like hats off congrats.
You aren't understanding what BMR is, it's not your maintenance calories unless you are at total rest all day and in a fasted state.
You seem to be confusing TDEE and BMR.
On top of that, your TDEE isn't something you can calculate on a weekly basis. It takes several weeks (at least a month) to eliminate the 'noise' from weight fluctuations (water weight, food waste,...) and determine your true weight trend.
This plus if you exercise inconsistently your average weekly TDEE is going to be higher on a higher exercise week, which is why for such people logging exercise separately and adding to TDEE without intentional exercise can work better.
^^^
THIS!!! Some weeks more workouts are more frequent and more intense. Some weeks I need more rest to make up for those intense workouts that I maybe wasn’t ready for them to be that intense. Some weeks I’ll burn several thousand calories from exercise (and I ALWAYS underestimate) and some weeks I might burn a couple hundred calories through exercise.
That is precisely why sedentary + exercise works for me. It took some trial and error to determine that though.7 -
Guys give me some slack here. Ok I looked up what TDEE was. The BMR plus calories burnt during exercise. All good but if the BMR is unreliable it is still hard to know where calorie deficit begins even if I know exactly how much I burnt during exercise. But I dont want to argue too much, you are essentially right even a close estimate is better than nothing. I have roughly six months of keto plus IF plus one day a week fasting behind me, a fairly extreme diet regime, I have had success-60 pounds roughly- but I have to admit I am struggling to lose weight these days and I am in calorie deficit that's for sure without tracking anything. I need twenty pounds off more to get where I want to be and despite calorie deficit I am having difficulties.2
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Curious if they would say that balancing your checkbook is bad as well.
TikTok, is this a new source for actual information?4 -
I just find it easier to eat as healthily as i can and to actively keep my portions small. I also make sure i do exercise every day. The weight comes off but slower. From personal experience I'd rather lose it slowly and keep it off, rather than lose it quickly by focusing on calories and putting it all back on again anyway. But that's just me.2
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Guys give me some slack here. Ok I looked up what TDEE was. The BMR plus calories burnt during exercise. All good but if the BMR is unreliable it is still hard to know where calorie deficit begins even if I know exactly how much I burnt during exercise. But I dont want to argue too much, you are essentially right even a close estimate is better than nothing. I have roughly six months of keto plus IF plus one day a week fasting behind me, a fairly extreme diet regime, I have had success-60 pounds roughly- but I have to admit I am struggling to lose weight these days and I am in calorie deficit that's for sure without tracking anything. I need twenty pounds off more to get where I want to be and despite calorie deficit I am having difficulties.
“I am in a calorie deficit that’s for sure without tracking anything’s and “I am struggling to lose weight these days”.
Obviously if you aren’t losing weight you are NOT eating in a deficit. Again, congrats on losing 60 lbs, but if you are trying to lose more and you aren’t losing, then clearly at your new weight, your calorie intake is no longer in a deficit. You aren’t defying science.
We keep trying to help and you just don’t seem to understand the basics of weight loss.7 -
getting_stronger1483 wrote: »I just find it easier to eat as healthily as i can and to actively keep my portions small. I also make sure i do exercise every day. The weight comes off but slower. From personal experience I'd rather lose it slowly and keep it off, rather than lose it quickly by focusing on calories and putting it all back on again anyway. But that's just me.
Focusing on calories doesn’t make anyone lose weight quickly. I lose 1 lb a week. Some people lose .5 a week. Some of us are eating at maintenance and still tracking calories. It isn’t a quick fix and it isn’t meant to be done short term. I fully expect to measure and track for the rest of my life. I’ve stopped before and the weight creeps back on. I no longer wish to be a yo yo.6 -
Guys give me some slack here. Ok I looked up what TDEE was. The BMR plus calories burnt during exercise. All good but if the BMR is unreliable it is still hard to know where calorie deficit begins even if I know exactly how much I burnt during exercise. But I dont want to argue too much, you are essentially right even a close estimate is better than nothing. I have roughly six months of keto plus IF plus one day a week fasting behind me, a fairly extreme diet regime, I have had success-60 pounds roughly- but I have to admit I am struggling to lose weight these days and I am in calorie deficit that's for sure without tracking anything. I need twenty pounds off more to get where I want to be and despite calorie deficit I am having difficulties.
TDEE is not BMR + exercise. Keep looking.
I'd give you some slack, except that you keep giving others advice that . . . isn't accurate, or at least isn't complete/comprehensive/nuanced, frankly.
I'm completely sympathetic to you finding your own route, though. If it works, great: That's what counts, for an individual. If it's not working . . . well, maybe give it some more thought, research. There are people here who'd like to help, and try to help. *I'd* try to help, using only the admittedly limited understanding I have. I don't dislike you, am not disagreeing with you just to be oppositional.
One thing from others above I agree with: If you're not losing over a period of 'enough' multi-weeks, and you're not tracking (accurately, and adjusting based on experience), you're not in a deficit.
People can lose without calorie counting. If not losing, and not counting, and not a person at risk for disordered thinking when counting . . . accurate counting can be a useful option. But *many weeks*, not one.9 -
I do agree with the fact that calorie counting can be a trigger for some but for me it's a great tool to lose weight in a healthy way. Now I did actually see where it went wrong in my diet and it does prevent me from eating to little or to much. I don't care about macro's at this point.
Like for example today, I saw that I still had about 500 calories left after dinner to spend on evening snacks. I knew there was a Snickers chocolate bar (about 200 kcal) in the cabinet and I hadn't had chocolate in months. So what did I do? Enjoyed eating that bar to the fullest without feeling guilty at all. If I wasn't counting calories I wouldn't have known I had room left for that bar and might have felt guilty and bad about eating it.9 -
getting_stronger1483 wrote: »I just find it easier to eat as healthily as i can and to actively keep my portions small. I also make sure i do exercise every day. The weight comes off but slower. From personal experience I'd rather lose it slowly and keep it off, rather than lose it quickly by focusing on calories and putting it all back on again anyway. But that's just me.
When I first started I was (in my mind) eating as healthily as I could (and without indulgences, as I defined them) and keeping my portions small, and exercising (although I was still in the ramping up stage). When I joined MFP and started logging I was shocked to see my usual day was 800-1000 (without exercise cals, which I of course was not adding back since I wasn't counting cals). Luckily, I decided to eat more and added back various pleasures (like a little cheese, a little olive oil, etc.) that I in fact could easily include, and which made my diet more sustainable going forward. Absent the logging, I can totally see myself getting to a point where I was starving after days of such low cals and restrictive diet, and going way off the rails and thinking I was a failure and giving up.
Not sure why you assume that counting cals means an unsustainable weight loss.7 -
SnifterPug wrote: »"- I won't, for example, weigh an apple, eat the apple and then weigh the core to discover precisely to the calorie what I consumed."
I'm pretty precise in my tracking.... This never occurred to me, lol. For the record, it doesn't appeal to me either.0 -
SnifterPug wrote: »"- I won't, for example, weigh an apple, eat the apple and then weigh the core to discover precisely to the calorie what I consumed."
I'm pretty precise in my tracking.... This never occurred to me, lol. For the record, it doesn't appeal to me either.
Other example - people will comment about weighing the spoon used to scoop something before and after because they are going to eat what stuck to the spoon.
Ok.
I always wondered did they weigh the bowl or plate before and after eating so as not to count what stuck to the plate?
When some people hear about these types of examples, and perhaps think or are told this is needed for successful calorie counting - yeah, I get how many can think it would not be healthy.
I am curious enough to check the next apple just to see how many calories are being talked about. I guess core is decent amount of the weight.0 -
BMR = calories burned in a day by a person in a coma. Of no relevance except to people in comas and the nurses determining how much liquid food to insert into them each day.
TDEE = the actual calories burned in a day by someone, inclusive of everthing they do. It can only be approximated in online tools, because, obviously, the tools don't have sensors hooked up to your body.
Most people find online TDEE estimates close enough to work with. Those tools are never going to be 100 % accurate. But they're usually within a few percent, unless one is a bodybuilder or other anomaly, making them very useful to people counting calories.
TDEE will fluctuate day to day. Of course. It depends on how much you exercise and otherwise move around. Move more, higher TDEE. That is a key - possibly THE key - diet strategy out there: control your eating, while moving more to raise your TDEE.3 -
Guys give me some slack here. Ok I looked up what TDEE was. The BMR plus calories burnt during exercise. All good but if the BMR is unreliable it is still hard to know where calorie deficit begins even if I know exactly how much I burnt during exercise. But I dont want to argue too much, you are essentially right even a close estimate is better than nothing. I have roughly six months of keto plus IF plus one day a week fasting behind me, a fairly extreme diet regime, I have had success-60 pounds roughly- but I have to admit I am struggling to lose weight these days and I am in calorie deficit that's for sure without tracking anything. I need twenty pounds off more to get where I want to be and despite calorie deficit I am having difficulties.
No, TDEE is not BMR + exercise. There is, in fact, no variable that equals BMR + exercise.
The only real-world application of BMR + exercise would be a person in a coma who's working out, which doesn't make any sense.9 -
Guys give me some slack here. Ok I looked up what TDEE was. The BMR plus calories burnt during exercise. All good but if the BMR is unreliable it is still hard to know where calorie deficit begins even if I know exactly how much I burnt during exercise. But I dont want to argue too much, you are essentially right even a close estimate is better than nothing. I have roughly six months of keto plus IF plus one day a week fasting behind me, a fairly extreme diet regime, I have had success-60 pounds roughly- but I have to admit I am struggling to lose weight these days and I am in calorie deficit that's for sure without tracking anything. I need twenty pounds off more to get where I want to be and despite calorie deficit I am having difficulties.
What might be helpful for you is to realize that, for a very specific reason, you are having a diet issue, and it has nothing to do with BMR/TDEE/etc.
I watched a fascinating video a few months ago. It was a guy talking about the extremely common problem of dieters who've lost 50-60 pounds suddenly hitting a wall. Flush with success, all of a sudden the weight loss stops, and is hard to reconcile with the successes that had been racked up before that.
I was watching that video because I hit a wall right at 50 pounds. I was losing 2 lbs a week and then it just stopped.
Of course the answer is nothing as intricate as varying BMR levels. It's food management - weighing, logging, counting, that kind of thing. Turns out many people just ... lose their calorie deficit edge when they get to 50-60 pounds, BECAUSE THEY STOP BEING HARD-CORE WITH THE TRACKING, it's so common that people write and make videos about this specific problem.
If you want to get back on the weight loss horse, go to the MFP goals tool, bang in all your stats, tell it how much weight you want to lose, and whatever number it gives you, eat that # of calories, 7 days a week, no more, no cheat meals, no resting on your laurels of having lost 60 pounds (which is what I did-a mistake for sure), just get back in there like it's the first day of your diet, counting carefully (every gram of food) and logging it.
Then your weight loss will resume.12 -
For me it is essential what I actually put in to lose weight and hope for the best I am in calorie deficit. But that is me, if you can lose weight eating what you really like hats off congrats.
ANYONE can lose weight eating what they really like, as long as they stay in a caloric deficit whilst eating those foods... as has been stated many times, the type of food you eat has no bearing on weight loss as long as there is a deficit.
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getting_stronger1483 wrote: »I just find it easier to eat as healthily as i can and to actively keep my portions small. I also make sure i do exercise every day. The weight comes off but slower. From personal experience I'd rather lose it slowly and keep it off, rather than lose it quickly by focusing on calories and putting it all back on again anyway. But that's just me.
Anecdotal stories do not supersede science such as the law of thermodynamics.6
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