Anyone else struggling to lose ANY weight on Keto?
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Mazintrov13 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
You can't say a question is inherently better without more context. OP's question is why he is not losing. The answer is unlikely to be nutrition or stress, although of course those things are important for health.
For example, if I exercise, am eating a nutritious diet, and working on stress management (all true, although my stress management has been poor lately) and ask what has worked for others to cut cals without feeling deprived or hungry, I'd be annoyed if someone started explaining to me that nutrition and exercise are important, as I know that, and am interested in a question specifically about calories/satiety. Nor would it be helpful to tell me to work on my relationships or find a greater purpose. I just want to know what foods others find filling for the calories! (Note, this is hypothetical.)
Pretty sure I’ll get disagrees here as well but the OP did mention earlier they are wanting a way of eating that will work long term, of course that involves eating less calories than your body needs to maintain and then at maintenance without gaining which is easier said than done and I actually those points mentioned by jthanmyfitnesspal are worth mentioning when it comes to long term weight loss.
Plus OP said they were following Keto originally assuming that would mean automatic weight loss so they may not be totally well informed on the nutrition side of things as well. I know for me when I want to cut I need to focus heavily on protein and fiber/volume foods so I do think nutrition is worth mentioning.
OP didn't suggest that he or she was lacking in the things jthanmyfitnesspal claimed were "better questions." It's like lecturing him or her about not drinking to excess or smoking as if that was assumed would be problems someone needing to lose had.
People often focus on protein and fiber/volume foods due to satiety -- and many people had mentioned satiety. Nutrition is important for health, but not really the same as satiety (one can eat a nutrient-dense and sufficient diet without it being super satiating or with it being so, and many who find protein sating will each much more than is required for satiety. I do think getting into OP's specific issues with keto -- which is sating for many but not sating for many others -- is worthwhile, and had been brought up multiple times, of course, but that jthanmyfitnesspal's claimed "better approach" didn't address that at all.
As someone who knew a lot about nutrition and was eating a nutritious diet when I started losing (and now), I would have found it quite presumptuous for someone to assume -- with no information -- that my problem was I didn't care about nutrition.10 -
B_Plus_Effort wrote: »
Those things don't work. So basically this thing sends a tiny current into one arm and it takes the direct route through your body towards the other hand. So now you know the resistance on the direct route. What happens if you hold it at chest height and you happen to have breasts? I can tell you: one such thing gave me 43% fat, at a total normal BMI. Added to that. the amount of fluid in your body, sweat on your hands and a few other factors play a role as well.
Nothing works if you don’t use it as it is intended to be used. Like MFP wouldn’t work if you don’t log accurately or put in proper information. Weight loss or gain can’t be measured properly if you don’t weigh your self under similar conditions every time.
While the machine may not be accurate, it should somewhat be consistent and give you an idea if your headed in the right direction if you use it as intended and under similar circumstances.
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Keto is like any other diet. You have to eat in a calorie deficit. The whole premise is this diet never made sense to me because the high fat foods common on this diet make it really easy to go over on calories. They also aren’t very satiating, IMO.3
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Mazintrov13 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
You can't say a question is inherently better without more context. OP's question is why he is not losing. The answer is unlikely to be nutrition or stress, although of course those things are important for health.
For example, if I exercise, am eating a nutritious diet, and working on stress management (all true, although my stress management has been poor lately) and ask what has worked for others to cut cals without feeling deprived or hungry, I'd be annoyed if someone started explaining to me that nutrition and exercise are important, as I know that, and am interested in a question specifically about calories/satiety. Nor would it be helpful to tell me to work on my relationships or find a greater purpose. I just want to know what foods others find filling for the calories! (Note, this is hypothetical.)
Pretty sure I’ll get disagrees here as well but the OP did mention earlier they are wanting a way of eating that will work long term, of course that involves eating less calories than your body needs to maintain and then at maintenance without gaining which is easier said than done and I actually those points mentioned by jthanmyfitnesspal are worth mentioning when it comes to long term weight loss.
Plus OP said they were following Keto originally assuming that would mean automatic weight loss so they may not be totally well informed on the nutrition side of things as well. I know for me when I want to cut I need to focus heavily on protein and fiber/volume foods so I do think nutrition is worth mentioning.
Just for clarification- Are you suggesting that doing Keto means automatic weight loss, or are you saying that’s what the OP believes? I must be overly tired tonight 😴0 -
msalicia07 wrote: »Mazintrov13 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
You can't say a question is inherently better without more context. OP's question is why he is not losing. The answer is unlikely to be nutrition or stress, although of course those things are important for health.
For example, if I exercise, am eating a nutritious diet, and working on stress management (all true, although my stress management has been poor lately) and ask what has worked for others to cut cals without feeling deprived or hungry, I'd be annoyed if someone started explaining to me that nutrition and exercise are important, as I know that, and am interested in a question specifically about calories/satiety. Nor would it be helpful to tell me to work on my relationships or find a greater purpose. I just want to know what foods others find filling for the calories! (Note, this is hypothetical.)
Pretty sure I’ll get disagrees here as well but the OP did mention earlier they are wanting a way of eating that will work long term, of course that involves eating less calories than your body needs to maintain and then at maintenance without gaining which is easier said than done and I actually those points mentioned by jthanmyfitnesspal are worth mentioning when it comes to long term weight loss.
Plus OP said they were following Keto originally assuming that would mean automatic weight loss so they may not be totally well informed on the nutrition side of things as well. I know for me when I want to cut I need to focus heavily on protein and fiber/volume foods so I do think nutrition is worth mentioning.
Just for clarification- Are you suggesting that doing Keto means automatic weight loss, or are you saying that’s what the OP believes? I must be overly tired tonight 😴
Not Lemur, but I know that she meant that is what the OP appeared to believe.2 -
B_Plus_Effort wrote: »
Those things don't work. So basically this thing sends a tiny current into one arm and it takes the direct route through your body towards the other hand. So now you know the resistance on the direct route. What happens if you hold it at chest height and you happen to have breasts? I can tell you: one such thing gave me 43% fat, at a total normal BMI. Added to that. the amount of fluid in your body, sweat on your hands and a few other factors play a role as well.
Nothing works if you don’t use it as it is intended to be used. Like MFP wouldn’t work if you don’t log accurately or put in proper information. Weight loss or gain can’t be measured properly if you don’t weigh your self under similar conditions every time.
While the machine may not be accurate, it should somewhat be consistent and give you an idea if your headed in the right direction if you use it as intended and under similar circumstances.
But it's a complete tangent to the OP's actual question.4 -
B_Plus_Effort wrote: »
Those things don't work. So basically this thing sends a tiny current into one arm and it takes the direct route through your body towards the other hand. So now you know the resistance on the direct route. What happens if you hold it at chest height and you happen to have breasts? I can tell you: one such thing gave me 43% fat, at a total normal BMI. Added to that. the amount of fluid in your body, sweat on your hands and a few other factors play a role as well.
Nothing works if you don’t use it as it is intended to be used. Like MFP wouldn’t work if you don’t log accurately or put in proper information. Weight loss or gain can’t be measured properly if you don’t weigh your self under similar conditions every time.
While the machine may not be accurate, it should somewhat be consistent and give you an idea if your headed in the right direction if you use it as intended and under similar circumstances.
But it's a complete tangent to the OP's actual question.
This. And you can also see you're heading in the right direction with a simple bathroom scale which is less prone to measuring errors (you don't change the position of your arms to sometimes measure a bit more or less boob fat), or just us a tape measure. Maybe also prone to errors, but it's cheap.6 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »Mazintrov13 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
You can't say a question is inherently better without more context. OP's question is why he is not losing. The answer is unlikely to be nutrition or stress, although of course those things are important for health.
For example, if I exercise, am eating a nutritious diet, and working on stress management (all true, although my stress management has been poor lately) and ask what has worked for others to cut cals without feeling deprived or hungry, I'd be annoyed if someone started explaining to me that nutrition and exercise are important, as I know that, and am interested in a question specifically about calories/satiety. Nor would it be helpful to tell me to work on my relationships or find a greater purpose. I just want to know what foods others find filling for the calories! (Note, this is hypothetical.)
Pretty sure I’ll get disagrees here as well but the OP did mention earlier they are wanting a way of eating that will work long term, of course that involves eating less calories than your body needs to maintain and then at maintenance without gaining which is easier said than done and I actually those points mentioned by jthanmyfitnesspal are worth mentioning when it comes to long term weight loss.
Plus OP said they were following Keto originally assuming that would mean automatic weight loss so they may not be totally well informed on the nutrition side of things as well. I know for me when I want to cut I need to focus heavily on protein and fiber/volume foods so I do think nutrition is worth mentioning.
Just for clarification- Are you suggesting that doing Keto means automatic weight loss, or are you saying that’s what the OP believes? I must be overly tired tonight 😴
Not Lemur, but I know that she meant that is what the OP appeared to believe.
Yes that’s what I meant 😊1 -
Well, this has been a fascinating thread. I suppose it's difficult for any of us to really comprehend the complexities of individual bodies and weight loss. I have now spent 50 years trying to lose weight, and remember a moment (after working with a fitness coach, running 16 - 20 miles a week and eating between 1400-1600 calories a day and still not losing) when I sat in front of my GP. After all tests confirmed that I was healthy as a horse and had no thyroid issues he counselled me to learn to live with my weight. In his experience, he explained, some people simply have bodies that have a kind weight 'set point' and he believed that mine was one. But I've never been happy to live with it. I've done the radical (fasting/500 calories a day, etc.) the moderate (Jenny Craig for more than a year), the reasonable (WW) and whatever I do, nothing really works or lasts. I saw another doctor who suggested that a life time of dieting has played havoc with my metabolism. He also counselled me to learn to live with it. But I'd just seen a friend lose about 80 lbs on Keto. I have followed her diet, and lost nothing. In fact, may have gained. So what is the lesson? Perhaps I need to learn to live with it. I exercise. I probably know more about dieting that anyone I can imagine, more about nutrition than most nutritionists, so I eat the healthiest food I can find. When I had hip surgery last year and told the doctor my age (nearly 70 now) he looked at me for a long time and then said "well done!". So perhaps this is where I stop all the fighting....anyway - thanks!2
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Aw @peewoddin1 you sound defeated. Don't be.
I think what's key is, that you find something that you can do for the rest of your life. If Keto suits you, why not? If Southbeach suits you, go for it. But what people are trying to say is that it really doesn't matter what type of diet you do, as long as you're in a calorie deficit. That's the only secret.
And yes, your metabolism may well be messed up and hormones and lots of other factors play a big role as well, trust me I know! So where I may lose 5lbs a week (I wish), you may only lose 0.2lbs a week even if we were to start at the exact same base.
Try to look at this from a health point of view. You have another 20/30 years to live so how can you look after your body as best as you can? And any weight loss in the long run is a bonus.
If you haven't yet, just try logging your meals and drinks here. Get a food scale. Last night I had a slice of toast with peanutbutter as a snack. I would literally weigh my peanutbutter (7 grammes
) Go sloooow. 4 -
First of all, doctors are generally very poor at nutrition. In some countries all they learn about nutrition is packed into 2 days of their whole study. Don't expect doctors to know.
Fact: everyone can lose weight.
Also fact: it's not easy, and it's not fast
Everything that promises fast weight loss is better ignored. All you need is to eat less than your body needs. Over a prolonged period of time. Going on a very low calorie diet is not only unhealthy, but you won't reach the 'prolonged period of time' part because you give up earlier or start to binge. Some women only see a drop in weight after 4, or even 6 weeks because it's slow and water weight fluctuations can mask fat loss. Water weight fluctuates for all sorts of reasons out of your control, and especially due to hormones.
So to make sure that you succeed: get a food scale. Weigh everything that has calories. Chose a proper rate of loss (hint: it's not always the highest, remember what I wrote above). Chose the right database entries.6 -
@peewoddin1 nowhere did you say that you ever tried weighing and tracking. Nowhere do you say you ate in a calorie deficit. You can still eat too many calories eating the healthiest foods you can find.
Why don’t you try the one thing that actually works? Eating in a deficit. Your friend on keto was eating in a deficit whether they knew it or not or they wouldn’t have lost any weight.
A food scale is about $20. Give it a try for a couple of months and let us know how the weight loss journey goes eating in a deficit.10 -
peewoddin1 wrote: »But I'd just seen a friend lose about 80 lbs on Keto. I have followed her diet, and lost nothing. In fact, may have gained. So what is the lesson? Perhaps I need to learn to live with it. I exercise. I probably know more about dieting that anyone I can imagine, more about nutrition than most nutritionists, so I eat the healthiest food I can find. When I had hip surgery last year and told the doctor my age (nearly 70 now) he looked at me for a long time and then said "well done!". So perhaps this is where I stop all the fighting....anyway - thanks!
If you like keto, why not try keto and calorie counting. If you don't, maybe give calorie counting another try, short-term. It's much easier these days with apps like MFP, and us old hands could give you logging tips.
Also, I do think shifting the mindset from loss only to being as fit/healthy as you can be can be helpful. When I first lost weight I'd never had to do so before, and felt totally out of control and like I was just someone who was going to be fat. I didn't really believe it would work. So I decided to focus on the things I could control (what I ate, what activity I did) and be as healthy as possible, and if I was fat and healthy, so be it. As it happened, I did lose, and I think everyone will with a consistent calorie deficit over time, but it's often not linear and easy to get frustrated, so focuses on things other than just weight can be really helpful.2 -
And again, people respond to me as I I've never counted calories, never weighed food, never weighed myself obsessively every day, never stressed over every little bit of anything I ate. I have spent a lifetime doing this. I have worked with doctors, fitness coaches, hypnotists, weight loss specialists - it doesn't help me to come on here and read advice as if all this is something new to me. So my dear un-met friends. I am not despairing. But I think the time has come to do as two doctors have said to me: adjust to it. Learn to accept it. Keep being as healthy as I can. Keep exercising. Keep eating healthy, nutritious food, and stop making life such a misery for myself. So there it is. Final farewell and best to all of you on your weight loss journey!!2
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Oh wow. Okay then. I apologise for giving you some well-meant advice.11
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Oh, sorry then. I didn't realize you were one of those rare unicorns who actually don't need food for nourishment but instead store everything as fat, and for whom the laws of physics don't apply. I think such magic is too much for this forum. Good luck.9
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
I agree that you are answering the better question.
I'm reminded of patients on "My 600 Pound Life" who have no problems with adherence in hospital settings (excluding the ones whose family members sneak in food) yet struggle when they are back at home where highly palatable and caloric food is freely available.
The less holistic question of "What matters for weight management?" is more relevant in a setting where food is controlled, and since that is presumably not the case for any of us with internet access, a better question is indeed "What matters to overall physical and mental health?"
There's a Buddhist story along the lines of how it's easier to stay on your chosen path when you are living in a cave with minimal distractions versus living in the outside world.2 -
peewoddin1 wrote: »And again, people respond to me as I I've never counted calories, never weighed food, never weighed myself obsessively every day, never stressed over every little bit of anything I ate. I have spent a lifetime doing this. I have worked with doctors, fitness coaches, hypnotists, weight loss specialists - it doesn't help me to come on here and read advice as if all this is something new to me. So my dear un-met friends. I am not despairing. But I think the time has come to do as two doctors have said to me: adjust to it. Learn to accept it. Keep being as healthy as I can. Keep exercising. Keep eating healthy, nutritious food, and stop making life such a misery for myself. So there it is. Final farewell and best to all of you on your weight loss journey!!
Oh I didn’t realize you were so special!! If you didn’t need advice, not sure why you asked for it in the first place 🤷🏻♀️7 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
I agree that you are answering the better question.
I'm reminded of patients on "My 600 Pound Life" who have no problems with adherence in hospital settings (excluding the ones whose family members sneak in food) yet struggle when they are back at home where highly palatable and caloric food is freely available.
The less holistic question of "What matters for weight management?" is more relevant in a setting where food is controlled, and since that is presumably not the case for any of us with internet access, a better question is indeed "What matters to overall physical and mental health?"
There's a Buddhist story along the lines of how it's easier to stay on your chosen path when you are living in a cave with minimal distractions versus living in the outside world.
But OP didn't ask for that. 🤦♀️🤷♀️5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
I agree that you are answering the better question.
I'm reminded of patients on "My 600 Pound Life" who have no problems with adherence in hospital settings (excluding the ones whose family members sneak in food) yet struggle when they are back at home where highly palatable and caloric food is freely available.
The less holistic question of "What matters for weight management?" is more relevant in a setting where food is controlled, and since that is presumably not the case for any of us with internet access, a better question is indeed "What matters to overall physical and mental health?"
There's a Buddhist story along the lines of how it's easier to stay on your chosen path when you are living in a cave with minimal distractions versus living in the outside world.
But OP didn't ask for that. 🤦♀️🤷♀️
Agreed. Again, it's analogous to the following:
Me: I'm eating 1300 + exercise cals and not losing, even though that should be at least 1 lb a week. What am I doing wrong?
Poster: Well, you really need to get proper nutrition.
Me: Actually, I do get proper nutrition, not sure why you assumed otherwise, just because I am trying to lose weight? And isn't nutrition not actually going to make a difference as to whether I lose or not if my calorie goal and estimate are correct?
Poster: Oh, okay. Well, the thing is you need to exercise.
Me: As I said, I am exercising and eating back exercise cals, but again, aren't cals what are going to determine if I lose or not? I find exercise important to how I feel overall, but I definitely have friends who lost without exercising at all, how do you explain that?
Poster: Okay, then. Clearly the problem is that your mental health is not on point. Perhaps you should work on your relationships.
Me: Muttering incoherently at my irritation at the presumptuousness and, IMO, rudeness, of that response, especially when I did not bring up anything about my relationships.
Poster: I see you don't like that answer, so it's clearly the problem, but also you really need to have a purpose.
Me: I actually agree purpose is important to extended motivation and being able to keep up with what I need to do going forward and it's something I've worked on (again, thanks for making assumptions!), but the problem is I'm sticking to my diet and exercise plan and it does not seem to be working.
I would hope that that demonstrates that substituting some different question -- that makes a bunch of unfounded assumptions in a vacuum -- is clearly NOT a better question (or answer) than one directed at what a poster actually asks. At least not until more is revealed and there is a reason to assume some of these other things are the problem (and frankly they don't explain why someone who thinks they are consistently eating at a deficitwould not be losing). OP did not suggest that he had relationship problems or a lack of purpose or a nutritionally deficit diet, he instead initially indicated that he thought one would automatically lose eating keto (and subsequently added that he had been told to do keto without counting cals).7
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