Anyone else struggling to lose ANY weight on Keto?
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Hi all - thanks for your comments. I had responded yesterday but now don't see that on here. I was following a site called Diet Doctor, which is a keto site. It's all quite confusing as they are pretty adamant that you DON'T count calories. I guess I will ditch keto since just a TBSP of olive oil is nearly 1/12th of daily calories...just seems strange that so many people seem to lose on keto. And increasingly I read articles on how calorie restriction doesn't lead to LASTING weight loss. Just feels like there's no winning here!!5
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peewoddin1 wrote: »Hi all - thanks for your comments. I had responded yesterday but now don't see that on here. I was following a site called Diet Doctor, which is a keto site. It's all quite confusing as they are pretty adamant that you DON'T count calories. I guess I will ditch keto since just a TBSP of olive oil is nearly 1/12th of daily calories...just seems strange that so many people seem to lose on keto. And increasingly I read articles on how calorie restriction doesn't lead to LASTING weight loss. Just feels like there's no winning here!!
Keto/low carb often has a drop in water weight when you first start, because of lower carb intake. But it does not continue unless you are in a caloric deficit.8 -
Hi there, welcome back.
To be honest, the stastistics on lasting weight loss don’t look good, but the only way to lose weight is to eat less calories than your body needs. How you do that is very individual, but the best way is probably to build good habits while you lose weight in a way how you see yourself eating forever. Good habits doesn’t mean to avoid ‘bad foods’ but to learn how much food you need to stay on weight.9 -
peewoddin1 wrote: »Hi all - thanks for your comments. I had responded yesterday but now don't see that on here. I was following a site called Diet Doctor, which is a keto site. It's all quite confusing as they are pretty adamant that you DON'T count calories. I guess I will ditch keto since just a TBSP of olive oil is nearly 1/12th of daily calories...just seems strange that so many people seem to lose on keto. And increasingly I read articles on how calorie restriction doesn't lead to LASTING weight loss. Just feels like there's no winning here!!
If you look up the statistics, 95% of the people who lose weight will fail to maintain the weight loss for a significant amount of time. The problem is not the manner of losing the weight - ANY style of eating that leads to a calorie deficit will result in weight loss. The problem is that most people don't know how to MAINTAIN the weight loss. There seems to be a pervasive belief that once people lose the weight they can go back to the same eating patterns that got them fat in the first place but somehow (magic maybe) it won't make them fat again.
You need to educate yourself and re-train your brain while you are losing the weight. Understand that a smaller body (after you lose the weight) will require smaller amounts of fuel (food) to keep the same weight. You also need to figure out what works for you individually so that you can keep the weight off, whether it just involves eating fewer calories than you may want to eat, exercising to increase the number of calories that yoou can eat or a combination of the two.4 -
Calorie restriction doesn’t lead to lasting weight loss because most people stop counting calories. Keto doesn’t lead to lasting weight loss because people stop keto.
The same thing can be said of every single diet under the sun. If you treat it as a short term solution, you will get short term results (at best). You need to make lifestyle changes to see lasting results. There are people on here who have been in maintenance for over a decade who still count their calories.
I recommend a food scale, whatever you find satisfying (if that’s keto, then enjoy), plugging your stats into MFP, and selecting rate of loss (2 lbs is too aggressive for most people unless you have upwards of 50 lbs to lose and even then, most people find that harder to adhere to; so I recommend starting with 1 lb a week). Weigh and track foods accurately, eat in a deficit and you will lose weight.
Most of the “success” stories around keto are people who have been doing it for a few weeks and lost a bunch of water weight from being low carb. That is not the same as losing fat though. And again, if you don’t do it forever, you regain when you stop.3 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »The bolded is usually why. Some use these methods of weight loss because it's the fad now and forget that CICO is all that matters. 🤷♀️
CICO is not quite all that matters. There is the critical issue of proper nutrition.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition are all that matters."
Then, you could note that proper exercise is also critical to overall health.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition + exercise are all that matters."
Then, you could note that mental health is also critical to overall health. Relationships are key to mental health.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships are all that matters."
But, purpose is also key to overall mental health. Hey, maybe I've gotten there:
"CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships + purpose are all that matters."
I'll leave the ordering to the individual.
Wrong. CICO is all that is needed for weight loss. All of that is extra.16 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »The bolded is usually why. Some use these methods of weight loss because it's the fad now and forget that CICO is all that matters. 🤷♀️
CICO is not quite all that matters. There is the critical issue of proper nutrition.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition are all that matters."
Then, you could note that proper exercise is also critical to overall health.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition + exercise are all that matters."
Then, you could note that mental health is also critical to overall health. Relationships are key to mental health.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships are all that matters."
But, purpose is also key to overall mental health. Hey, maybe I've gotten there:
"CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships + purpose are all that matters."
I'll leave the ordering to the individual.
Weight loss is CICO. Some people find exercise helps them stay in a calorie deficit. Some people find that proper nutrition helps them stay more full (some people like me are picky and don’t eat veggies so my “nutrition” is certainly somewhat lacking).
For weight loss, eating less than your body needs results in weight loss. The other things you mention are superflous to what is needed for weight loss, but might make weight loss easier for some people.10 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »The bolded is usually why. Some use these methods of weight loss because it's the fad now and forget that CICO is all that matters. 🤷♀️
CICO is not quite all that matters. There is the critical issue of proper nutrition.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition are all that matters."
Then, you could note that proper exercise is also critical to overall health.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition + exercise are all that matters."
Then, you could note that mental health is also critical to overall health. Relationships are key to mental health.
So, you might say "CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships are all that matters."
But, purpose is also key to overall mental health. Hey, maybe I've gotten there:
"CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships + purpose are all that matters."
I'll leave the ordering to the individual.
You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
The latter is what directly relates to OP's question.14 -
peewoddin1 wrote: »Hi all - thanks for your comments. I had responded yesterday but now don't see that on here. I was following a site called Diet Doctor, which is a keto site. It's all quite confusing as they are pretty adamant that you DON'T count calories. I guess I will ditch keto since just a TBSP of olive oil is nearly 1/12th of daily calories...just seems strange that so many people seem to lose on keto. And increasingly I read articles on how calorie restriction doesn't lead to LASTING weight loss. Just feels like there's no winning here!!
I don't like the Diet Doctor site as I think it makes baseless claims about keto and turns it into a fad with such things as one must not count cals. It's also a site that one ultimately is supposed to pay for (often a bad sign, IMO), and pushes under 20 net g of carbs (I think one can be in ketosis with more depending on one's activity) and a lower protein limit (usually more protein isn't an issue)--if psulemon is around he could weigh in on this. My own take is that low carb/keto really is about cutting down on the carbs and then eat protein/fat as you like without your cals (and with the same protein goal you'd have otherwise). No need to worry about eating too much protein or actively try to eat super high fat, so long as you have sufficient cals.
The key with keto, for those for whom it works, is appetite control and, probably, taking some trigger foods that are often high carb AND high fat off the table (low fat and whole foods based diets often do the same, depending on the food). Similarly, since one is often changing one's diet a lot, one must be more thoughtful about the foods one chooses, and that for some will naturally lead to calorie restriction (but often in the short term only). (Full disclosure, I lost my weight at a moderate carb to somewhat lower carb way of eating, and counting cals, and then at maintenance tried keto and found it provided me personally with no additional appetite control (but my appetite wasn't an issue) or losses beyond what was expected -- in other words, I maintained on the cals I'd been maintaining on eating moderate carb). But I'm not negative about keto at all, I think it's helpful for some.)
Even if one is someone for whom keto matters for appetite control, the appetite control can work in conjunction with calorie counting, helping people hit their calorie goal consistently without difficulty. Also, some of us find that eating lower carb without worrying about ketosis specifically can be just as effective (and some find they don't feel satisfied without more carbs).
If there are things you like about keto or low carb, I don't think you need to ditch it, but I do think you should at least start by counting cals. At the least you will get a sense of what fits into the cals you need to eat to lose. For many, it's sustainable to count cals throughout the loss and even into maintenance, for others it's difficult or more unpleasant (I kind of like it, but usually don't do it at maintenance), but counting for a while really helps one understand how many cals they are eating and what foods are contributing what cals, which I think can be extremely helpful even after one is no longer counting, and with things like understanding portions.
The Low Carber forum here (https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum) is pretty good if you are interested in continuing with keto or low carb, and there are plenty of people there who have found keto helpful but also count cals.8 -
peewoddin1 wrote: »Hi all - thanks for your comments. I had responded yesterday but now don't see that on here. I was following a site called Diet Doctor, which is a keto site. It's all quite confusing as they are pretty adamant that you DON'T count calories. I guess I will ditch keto since just a TBSP of olive oil is nearly 1/12th of daily calories...just seems strange that so many people seem to lose on keto. And increasingly I read articles on how calorie restriction doesn't lead to LASTING weight loss. Just feels like there's no winning here!!
I don't like the Diet Doctor site as I think it makes baseless claims about keto and turns it into a fad with such things as one must not count cals. It's also a site that one ultimately is supposed to pay for (often a bad sign, IMO), and pushes under 20 net g of carbs (I think one can be in ketosis with more depending on one's activity) and a lower protein limit (usually more protein isn't an issue)--if psulemon is around he could weigh in on this. My own take is that low carb/keto really is about cutting down on the carbs and then eat protein/fat as you like without your cals (and with the same protein goal you'd have otherwise). No need to worry about eating too much protein or actively try to eat super high fat, so long as you have sufficient cals.
The key with keto, for those for whom it works, is appetite control and, probably, taking some trigger foods that are often high carb AND high fat off the table (low fat and whole foods based diets often do the same, depending on the food). Similarly, since one is often changing one's diet a lot, one must be more thoughtful about the foods one chooses, and that for some will naturally lead to calorie restriction (but often in the short term only). (Full disclosure, I lost my weight at a moderate carb to somewhat lower carb way of eating, and counting cals, and then at maintenance tried keto and found it provided me personally with no additional appetite control (but my appetite wasn't an issue) or losses beyond what was expected -- in other words, I maintained on the cals I'd been maintaining on eating moderate carb). But I'm not negative about keto at all, I think it's helpful for some.)
Even if one is someone for whom keto matters for appetite control, the appetite control can work in conjunction with calorie counting, helping people hit their calorie goal consistently without difficulty. Also, some of us find that eating lower carb without worrying about ketosis specifically can be just as effective (and some find they don't feel satisfied without more carbs).
If there are things you like about keto or low carb, I don't think you need to ditch it, but I do think you should at least start by counting cals. At the least you will get a sense of what fits into the cals you need to eat to lose. For many, it's sustainable to count cals throughout the loss and even into maintenance, for others it's difficult or more unpleasant (I kind of like it, but usually don't do it at maintenance), but counting for a while really helps one understand how many cals they are eating and what foods are contributing what cals, which I think can be extremely helpful even after one is no longer counting, and with things like understanding portions.
The Low Carber forum here (https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum) is pretty good if you are interested in continuing with keto or low carb, and there are plenty of people there who have found keto helpful but also count cals.
Lemur makes some very good points here, particularly around carb and protein levels. I don't claim to be 'doing keto', but I did lower my carbs further about six weeks ago to help with appetite control. I still eat loads of vegetables, and plenty of protein. Even without being particularly active, I'm in ketosis at 40-45g net carbs, and I don't think my fat intake has ever exceeded 60% of my daily calories. Usually it's 50-55% (70-80g). Protein makes up the rest and I hit at least 100g a day. You simply don't need to be eating the super high amounts of fat touted by some keto sites, and in fact it's the low carb bit that matters for getting into ketosis. How low you need to be varies between individuals, but is often more than the 20-25g net stated on many sites. That's pushed because at that number, pretty much anyone will be producing ketones.
But, as has hopefully been made abundantly clear in this thread, it's the calorie deficit that matters. If keto helps you with appetite control, or if that style of eating appeals to you, then there's no need to ditch it, but if those aren't factors, find a way of eating that feels good to you and keeps you satiated within your MFP calorie allowance.4 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »"CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships + purpose are all that matters."
10 "disagree's" (and counting) is my new record!
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janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.2 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
Or not.12 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
You can't say a question is inherently better without more context. OP's question is why he is not losing. The answer is unlikely to be nutrition or stress, although of course those things are important for health.
For example, if I exercise, am eating a nutritious diet, and working on stress management (all true, although my stress management has been poor lately) and ask what has worked for others to cut cals without feeling deprived or hungry, I'd be annoyed if someone started explaining to me that nutrition and exercise are important, as I know that, and am interested in a question specifically about calories/satiety. Nor would it be helpful to tell me to work on my relationships or find a greater purpose. I just want to know what foods others find filling for the calories! (Note, this is hypothetical.)9 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
Why is that the better question? There's no indication that OP is struggling with any component of overall wellness other than weight management (I mean, maybe they don't have good relationships, but we don't have any reason to think they need advice in that realm). If I ask how to get my car running again, do you begin telling me what I need to do to maintain my washing machine?11 -
probly covered already (but i'm too lazy to read all the replies) but scale weight is only one of multiple gauges you should use, a body fat tester is a great one to use, or a pinch test or a good ol's snug pair of your favorite jeans, try them on every week and see if they fit (people fight me on the body fat % testers but it doesn't matter if they are not spot on accurate, you are using them as a relative measurement so if they are going down, you are headed in the right direction it doesn't matter if it read 22% and you are really 24%)
I get stuck on a certain weight for like a week at a time and no matter what I do it just doesn't fall off, then I'll eat a pizza and loose 4 pounds, drives my wife crazy
so you are just learning your body, and a month is not that long, check back in another month, also great job on the 18 hour fasting, (if you are otherwise healthy) don't be afraid to bump that to a full day fast maybe once a month at first, just don't plan on strenuous activity that day, maybe just chill around the house or walk on the treadmill
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Body I am doing 324 disagrees on the subject. Though 9 people hugged me that's nice.Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »"CICO + proper nutrition + exercise + relationships + purpose are all that matters."
10 "disagree's" (and counting) is my new record!
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B_Plus_Effort wrote: »probly covered already (but i'm too lazy to read all the replies) but scale weight is only one of multiple gauges you should use, a body fat tester is a great one to use, or a pinch test or a good ol's snug pair of your favorite jeans, try them on every week and see if they fit (people fight me on the body fat % testers but it doesn't matter if they are not spot on accurate, you are using them as a relative measurement so if they are going down, you are headed in the right direction it doesn't matter if it read 22% and you are really 24%)
I get stuck on a certain weight for like a week at a time and no matter what I do it just doesn't fall off, then I'll eat a pizza and loose 4 pounds, drives my wife crazy
so you are just learning your body, and a month is not that long, check back in another month, also great job on the 18 hour fasting, (if you are otherwise healthy) don't be afraid to bump that to a full day fast maybe once a month at first, just don't plan on strenuous activity that day, maybe just chill around the house or walk on the treadmill
Lol no.5 -
B_Plus_Effort wrote: »probly covered already (but i'm too lazy to read all the replies) but scale weight is only one of multiple gauges you should use, a body fat tester is a great one to use, or a pinch test or a good ol's snug pair of your favorite jeans, try them on every week and see if they fit (people fight me on the body fat % testers but it doesn't matter if they are not spot on accurate, you are using them as a relative measurement so if they are going down, you are headed in the right direction it doesn't matter if it read 22% and you are really 24%)
I get stuck on a certain weight for like a week at a time and no matter what I do it just doesn't fall off, then I'll eat a pizza and loose 4 pounds, drives my wife crazy
so you are just learning your body, and a month is not that long, check back in another month, also great job on the 18 hour fasting, (if you are otherwise healthy) don't be afraid to bump that to a full day fast maybe once a month at first, just don't plan on strenuous activity that day, maybe just chill around the house or walk on the treadmill
Those things don't work. So basically this thing sends a tiny current into one arm and it takes the direct route through your body towards the other hand. So now you know the resistance on the direct route. What happens if you hold it at chest height and you happen to have breasts? I can tell you: one such thing gave me 43% fat, at a total normal BMI. Added to that. the amount of fluid in your body, sweat on your hands and a few other factors play a role as well.6 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You seem to be trying to answer the question "What matters to overall physical and mental health," while everyone else is answering the question of "what matters for weight management?"
I agree. Perhaps I'm answering the better question.
You can't say a question is inherently better without more context. OP's question is why he is not losing. The answer is unlikely to be nutrition or stress, although of course those things are important for health.
For example, if I exercise, am eating a nutritious diet, and working on stress management (all true, although my stress management has been poor lately) and ask what has worked for others to cut cals without feeling deprived or hungry, I'd be annoyed if someone started explaining to me that nutrition and exercise are important, as I know that, and am interested in a question specifically about calories/satiety. Nor would it be helpful to tell me to work on my relationships or find a greater purpose. I just want to know what foods others find filling for the calories! (Note, this is hypothetical.)
Pretty sure I’ll get disagrees here as well but the OP did mention earlier they are wanting a way of eating that will work long term, of course that involves eating less calories than your body needs to maintain and then at maintenance without gaining which is easier said than done and I actually those points mentioned by jthanmyfitnesspal are worth mentioning when it comes to long term weight loss.
Plus OP said they were following Keto originally assuming that would mean automatic weight loss so they may not be totally well informed on the nutrition side of things as well. I know for me when I want to cut I need to focus heavily on protein and fiber/volume foods so I do think nutrition is worth mentioning.
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