Eating Meat after 17 Years of being Vegetarian to Build Muscle - Good Decision?
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I"m not a vegetarian/vegan but am not opposed to the idea. If it works for you great. I just wasn't raised as one and have felt no need to become one.
That said, I have looked into the topic on occasion and, from what I've read, while there are some vitamin deficiencies (like B12) to be aware of that may require supplementation, getting enough protein from non-meat sources is NOT a significant problem.
For an article that makes the same point, see for example: https://www.thehealthy.com/nutrition/vitamin-deficiency-vegetarian-vegan/
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Thank you to everyone for sharing your personal experiences. I forgot to mention one important thing - I have been intermittent fasting for a long time (just recently started tracking my macros). I also have a 30+ BMI since giving birth a few years back which is why my short term goal is fat loss (long term goal - body recomposition). Based on personal research, which I might be wrong but I am always open to learning, moderate carb intake is important when trying to lose fat as opposed to high carb intake. I am not on a low carb diet but after tracking my macros, the data I received demonstrated that carbs where taking up a much higher amount than my protein in my diet.
Most importantly, my daily eating window of 8 hours is 7am-3pm. In order for me to meet my 105 grams of protein within that window, I had to eat larger amounts of vegetarian protein rich foods and I was feeling so full. I felt like I was entering an eating contest trying to meet my macros by 3pmish which didn't feel natural nor sustainable. I'm sure if I wasn't intermittent fasting, splitting up my protein intake between meals through plant-based sources would be less challenging for me.
Due to this and after researching, I realized chicken and seafood has a higher protein amount through way smaller portions so I decided to try this for convenience. I respect vegan and vegetarian lifestyles and have benefitted from them regardless and plan on still incorporating plant-based.
Also, in case this might help anyone making a transition or thinking about it, today is Day 3 as an omnivore and my body reacted quite well. I haven't felt sick, sluggish, or queasy. My digestion has been the same to be honest. The taste and texture are still not enjoyable but I am that will change in time. So far, I've had salmon and chicken. I can always go back to plant-based if omnivore diet is not for me.
Thanks you everyone for taking the time to provide and share your personal experiences.4 -
Is there a reason you're doing IF? It has no bearing on weight loss whatsoever. Some people find it easier to stick to their calorie allowance if they only eat within a set window, but that's it. Anything else you've read to the contrary is BS.
And yes, you are misinformed about varying carb intakes making a difference to fat loss. Calorie deficit dictates fat loss. That's it. Everything else is for satiety, good nutrition, personal preference. It's not at all unusual for carbs to make up a bigger percentage of your calorie intake, and not the least bit detrimental.
There is flat out no reason for you to be making yourself eat things you don't like.9 -
"Based on personal research, which I might be wrong but I am always open to learning, moderate carb intake is important when trying to lose fat as opposed to high carb intake"
Sorry but you are wrong, calories matter for weight loss - not carbs and certainly not the proportion of carbs.
Don't make decisions based on poor information.
If carbs were crowding out your protein (and fat) and stopping you getting sufficient amounts that would be a valid argument but the amount of carbs themselves are an irrelevance for weight loss as long as you are achieving a calorie deficit.5 -
misslizzierod wrote: »Based on personal research, which I might be wrong but I am always open to learning, moderate carb intake is important when trying to lose fat as opposed to high carb intake. I am not on a low carb diet but after tracking my macros, the data I received demonstrated that carbs where taking up a much higher amount than my protein in my diet.
This is inaccurate. For example, MFP's default macros are 50% carbs, 20% protein, and 30% fat, and that works fine for fat loss. It's also not high carb (terms like "moderate" or "high" carb seem so incredibly subjective, as with your apparent view that anyone with a higher percentage of carbs than protein would be eating high carb, which is not consistent with typical definitions). At 1600 cals, MPF's defaults would be 200 g carbs, 80 g protein, and 53 g fat. Now, I can see wanting to eat more protein than that (I am using 1600 since I don't have your stats, but you did say that preserving/gaining muscle was a priority, so I'm assuming not 1200).
Specifically, as has probably been noted upthread, a commonly recommended goal for someone in your position is 0.8 g/lb of healthy goal weight. For myself, 5'3 with a 120 goal weight, this comes to 96. Based on this formula, 105 could be a perfectly fine goal (it's consistent with a goal in the low 130s), so I don't question that at all. At 1600, then, we are talking around 25% protein, and at even 1200, we'd be talking around 35% protein (but if you are trying to gain muscle and have the exercise activity to support that, 1200 seems way too low).
If at 25% or 30% protein, even if taken all from carbs, we are talking 45-25-25 or 30-40-40 -- full disclosure, I did the first part of my weight loss at 40-30-30 and loved it. The point I want to make is that neither would be considered "high" carb (nor would MFP's default) and yet neither has protein higher than carbs. That is because excess protein does nothing and absent doing some very low carb diet (which I have nothing against), carbs tend to be the primary source of energy, as well as important for many important nutrients (fruits, veg, beans and legumes, whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, etc., all have lots of nutrients, which is why the demonization that carbs sometimes get is distressing).
That said, if what you are saying is you want to hit 105 g protein on something like a 25% or 30% protein diet (gram number is more important than percentage), that should be extremely easy on vegetarian. (I've done periods of both vegetarian and vegan and find it easy to hit 100 or over on vegetarian, while on vegan, without more meat subs than I like, I tend to struggle to consistently eat over 80.) Of course what you are going to prioritize will be different if an ethical vegan, and one can be healthy and lose weight and even preserve/gain muscle eating 70-80 g protein at my stats, and likely at yours. But since you are not an ethical vegan this doesn't matter.
TL/DR: I think it should be pretty easy to hit your protein goal on a vegetarian diet of about 25-30% protein (105 g), especially if you are calculating a calorie goal consistent with not being completely sedentary and a healthy rate of weight loss. I think this likely will be harder, or at least more limiting in what you can eat, if you have told yourself carbs must be a lower number (less than 105) than your protein, and that that would have no benefits to weight loss.
I actually do currently eat lower carb and like it, as it works for me, but I like meat and have no ethical issues with eating it (although I care about how I source it). If you were vegetarian for reasons other than ethics or personal taste preferences, I have no reason to say don't eat meat (and it is possible to do that even on a low carb diet). But if you feel better ethically or enjoy your diet more without meat, I'd say this idea that you must eat protein and carb amounts that make a vegetarian diet more difficult is a mistaken one.6 -
misslizzierod wrote: »Thank you to everyone for sharing your personal experiences. I forgot to mention one important thing - I have been intermittent fasting for a long time (just recently started tracking my macros). I also have a 30+ BMI since giving birth a few years back which is why my short term goal is fat loss (long term goal - body recomposition). Based on personal research, which I might be wrong but I am always open to learning, moderate carb intake is important when trying to lose fat as opposed to high carb intake. I am not on a low carb diet but after tracking my macros, the data I received demonstrated that carbs where taking up a much higher amount than my protein in my diet.
Most importantly, my daily eating window of 8 hours is 7am-3pm. In order for me to meet my 105 grams of protein within that window, I had to eat larger amounts of vegetarian protein rich foods and I was feeling so full. I felt like I was entering an eating contest trying to meet my macros by 3pmish which didn't feel natural nor sustainable. I'm sure if I wasn't intermittent fasting, splitting up my protein intake between meals through plant-based sources would be less challenging for me.
Due to this and after researching, I realized chicken and seafood has a higher protein amount through way smaller portions so I decided to try this for convenience. I respect vegan and vegetarian lifestyles and have benefitted from them regardless and plan on still incorporating plant-based.
Also, in case this might help anyone making a transition or thinking about it, today is Day 3 as an omnivore and my body reacted quite well. I haven't felt sick, sluggish, or queasy. My digestion has been the same to be honest. The taste and texture are still not enjoyable but I am that will change in time. So far, I've had salmon and chicken. I can always go back to plant-based if omnivore diet is not for me.
Thanks you everyone for taking the time to provide and share your personal experiences.
People can lose fat on a high, moderate, or low carbohdyrate diet. There are many people who find that eating low carbohydrate either lowers their appetite or helps control cravings - if you're in this group and you find you enjoy it, these are good reasons to limit your carbohydrates. But otherwise, there is no particular need to do so. I lost all my weight while getting about 60% of my calories from carbohydrates and I was very happy with my body composition at the end (which I attribute to resistance training, keeping a moderate deficit so I didn't lose weight too quickly, and making sure to get enough protein).
Also, if IF is making it hard to meet your nutritional goals while eating how you like, maybe it's the IF that needs to be changed -- not the foods you're choosing. Just something to consider. IF is just a tool to help control calorie intake. Like any tool, it isn't going to be the perfect fit for every situation.
Not saying this to tell you that you HAVE to stop eating meat, but just throwing some more potential solutions out there.8 -
While some people find IF or reducing carbs HELPFUL, neither is NEEDED in order to lose weight.
Easiest weight loss in my life was when I was in Costa Rico, eating tropical fruit all day long and rice and beans twice a day. Very high carb but I dropped a size without even intending to.
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Seems like I need to really do some research on carbs. There is so much conflicting information online. Thanks for the info everyone!1
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misslizzierod wrote: »Seems like I need to really do some research on carbs. There is so much conflicting information online. Thanks for the info everyone!
It's one of several recent trendy marketing points. If weight loss were, say, a straightforward matter of counting calories, how would hundreds or thousands of people make money by selling books, supplements, special diet plans, etc.? In other words, be really careful about sources, note what their monetization strategy is.
(Truth in advertising:
I'm another in the "calories determine weight loss" camp. I think I only implied the number in my previous posts, but I lost weight just fine while eating 150g+ carbs most days . . . from BMI 30+, at age 59-60, while hypothyroid (treated), in less than a year, while vegetarian, losing down to BMI in the lower 20s; and I've been eating 200g+ carbs most days to maintain that healthy weight for 5 years since.
There are a lot of marketers out there who will tell you that low carb is essential for weight loss. Low carb can be a great strategy, for those it suits: Some find it helps them with appetite control, and appetite control makes it easier to stick with a reasonable calorie goal. If that's true of you (or if you have a health condition like diabetes that requires carb management), then low carb eating may be helpful. On the other hand, some people find low carb eating unpleasant, unsustainable, or unnecessary . . . sometimes even find that it tanks their energy level. Those people will probably do better eating more carbs.
IMO, experimentation with low carb for a few weeks, just calorie counting on a preferred nutritious balanced way of eating for a few weeks, will tell you everything that's important *for you* about carb intake level.)4 -
misslizzierod wrote: »Seems like I need to really do some research on carbs. There is so much conflicting information online. Thanks for the info everyone!
It's one of several recent trendy marketing points. If weight loss were, say, a straightforward matter of counting calories, how would hundreds or thousands of people make money by selling books, supplements, special diet plans, etc.? In other words, be really careful about sources, note what their monetization strategy is.
(Truth in advertising:
I'm another in the "calories determine weight loss" camp. I think I only implied the number in my previous posts, but I lost weight just fine while eating 150g+ carbs most days . . . from BMI 30+, at age 59-60, while hypothyroid (treated), in less than a year, while vegetarian, losing down to BMI in the lower 20s; and I've been eating 200g+ carbs most days to maintain that healthy weight for 5 years since.
There are a lot of marketers out there who will tell you that low carb is essential for weight loss. Low carb can be a great strategy, for those it suits: Some find it helps them with appetite control, and appetite control makes it easier to stick with a reasonable calorie goal. If that's true of you (or if you have a health condition like diabetes that requires carb management), then low carb eating may be helpful. On the other hand, some people find low carb eating unpleasant, unsustainable, or unnecessary . . . sometimes even find that it tanks their energy level. Those people will probably do better eating more carbs.
IMO, experimentation with low carb for a few weeks, just calorie counting on a preferred nutritious balanced way of eating for a few weeks, will tell you everything that's important *for you* about carb intake level.)
That’s impressive! Congratulations on the weight loss and greater health. Thank you for sharing your experience of weight loss without the use of a low carb diet and for this helpful information!2
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