A life without sugar?

2

Replies

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,889 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Arizona_C wrote: »
    A huge thank you for your posts on the topic, it has helped me looking at the high sugar intake otherwise.

    @Theoldguy1, I guess I should take a look at the rest of my diet, once the subject is up. I have a protein shake for breakfast (50g protein), often rice/ broccoli for lunch and bulgur/green beans for dinner. And two slices of toast with butter and cheese before bedtime, which isn’t the best time for a loaded snack.
    And the sugary things all along.
    The healthy fats I get in mainly with olive oil at my meals and salmon occasionally.

    I am aware that some simple things could make my diet healthier – trading down the sugar to add more fruit and complex carbs, adding different protein and healthy fat sources, etc. In that way, it isn’t that Im ignorant to the fact that too much of my calorie intake comes from sugar where other sources would be better.

    Its more that I cannot manage to cut sugar, in form of candy, etc, out. And I have tried to lower it multiple times, making deals with myself to stick to a reasonable quantity, for shortly after rave around in the cupboards to see what I can find otherwise.

    The love the notion of ‘enjoying reasonable quantities’. In periods it has worked for me but not at the moment. There is too much going on around me and I don’t have the quiet time I need to keep the fine balance.

    @elisa123gal, I feel terrible about it. I feel bloated, uncomfortable in my skin, and I have the feeling I am letting myself down. My sugar eating doesn’t correspond to the life I wish, and the feeling of dependence is getting to me.

    So, how is your protein level overall? I'm not seeing a lot in there (especially not much high quality in EAA terms), other than your protein supplement. A few grams in the cheese (8g P per ounce of cheese would be on the high side for cheese), a bit in the grains/green beans/broccoli (but those are not great quality or high amounts). That seems like it may not add up to a lot, for an active/athletic person. (I'm vegetarian, eating 100g protein at 5'5", for context.) If the salmon is infrequent, that's not a big factor, healthful though salmon may be.

    Variety in your veggies, maybe add some fruit, more protein, consider avocados/nuts/seeds as other fat sources - could help you nutritionally. Sometimes sub-par nutrition can express as energy cravings. (Doesn't apply to everyone, but I found that eating plenty of fruit cut my cravings for less nutrient-dense sweets. I've seen others say the same.)

    Have you ever tried focusing on *increasing* overall nutrition, rather than on *decreasing* snacks you think aren't good for you?

    I have some sort of wire crossed that when I don't get enough protein I want high sugar and fat snacky foods to a point that feels out of control.

    Arizona_C - do try increasing your protein later in the day and see what that does for your sugar cravings.

    Also increase fruit.
  • suzij27
    suzij27 Posts: 199 Member
    My husband gave up sugary foods for about a year after watching a documentary about what it does to your organs and health over time. He also gave up fruit juices and of course sodas. He did start eating more fruit than before. He always ate a good deal of fruit, but he went from 3-4 portions a day to probably 8. He also ate a lot of nuts. Those were the foods that seemed to replace the cookies, ice cream, cakes, etc. He also gave up alcohol. He definitely felt better, less sleepy during the day, less sluggish.

    I find that the less processed foods I eat, the less I crave them.

    You have to find your “why” and own it. Try it as an experiment of “how would I feel if I didn’t eat sugar today?” and take it one day at a time. The “forever” may be what is freaking you out. If you can find a way to avoid being punitive with yourself, you will have greater success.

    Just my 2 cents worth!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,972 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Arizona_C wrote: »
    A huge thank you for your posts on the topic, it has helped me looking at the high sugar intake otherwise.

    @Theoldguy1, I guess I should take a look at the rest of my diet, once the subject is up. I have a protein shake for breakfast (50g protein), often rice/ broccoli for lunch and bulgur/green beans for dinner. And two slices of toast with butter and cheese before bedtime, which isn’t the best time for a loaded snack.
    And the sugary things all along.
    The healthy fats I get in mainly with olive oil at my meals and salmon occasionally.

    I am aware that some simple things could make my diet healthier – trading down the sugar to add more fruit and complex carbs, adding different protein and healthy fat sources, etc. In that way, it isn’t that Im ignorant to the fact that too much of my calorie intake comes from sugar where other sources would be better.

    Its more that I cannot manage to cut sugar, in form of candy, etc, out. And I have tried to lower it multiple times, making deals with myself to stick to a reasonable quantity, for shortly after rave around in the cupboards to see what I can find otherwise.

    The love the notion of ‘enjoying reasonable quantities’. In periods it has worked for me but not at the moment. There is too much going on around me and I don’t have the quiet time I need to keep the fine balance.

    @elisa123gal, I feel terrible about it. I feel bloated, uncomfortable in my skin, and I have the feeling I am letting myself down. My sugar eating doesn’t correspond to the life I wish, and the feeling of dependence is getting to me.

    So, how is your protein level overall? I'm not seeing a lot in there (especially not much high quality in EAA terms), other than your protein supplement. A few grams in the cheese (8g P per ounce of cheese would be on the high side for cheese), a bit in the grains/green beans/broccoli (but those are not great quality or high amounts). That seems like it may not add up to a lot, for an active/athletic person. (I'm vegetarian, eating 100g protein at 5'5", for context.) If the salmon is infrequent, that's not a big factor, healthful though salmon may be.

    Variety in your veggies, maybe add some fruit, more protein, consider avocados/nuts/seeds as other fat sources - could help you nutritionally. Sometimes sub-par nutrition can express as energy cravings. (Doesn't apply to everyone, but I found that eating plenty of fruit cut my cravings for less nutrient-dense sweets. I've seen others say the same.)

    Have you ever tried focusing on *increasing* overall nutrition, rather than on *decreasing* snacks you think aren't good for you?

    I have some sort of wire crossed that when I don't get enough protein I want high sugar and fat snacky foods to a point that feels out of control.

    Arizona_C - do try increasing your protein later in the day and see what that does for your sugar cravings.

    Also increase fruit.

    I don't think that's "wires crossed", I think it's one of the fairly common manifestations of how our human wiring works. It may not be universal, but also there may be some limited number of cases (not all) where people just aren't as in touch with how the triggers and the feelings inter-relate (similar to the way many of us who've been overweight don't have accurate hunger signaling in other ways).

    After all, pica (eating odd things, sometimes non-foods) is a known symptom of particular types of malnutrition, and not necessarily because the item eaten actual supplies the missing nutrient.
  • scott_90345
    scott_90345 Posts: 17 Member
    If you're serious about cutting your sugar intake, then you can start from small steps. You can try to take sugar from natural resources. If you see good results then you can plan whatever you feel perfect for your fitness.
  • ahclay
    ahclay Posts: 36 Member
    There's something in getting older. I'm about to turn 60, and for the past ten years I have really cut down on sweets, mostly because they're not as enjoyable as they were when I was younger. I also cut sugar from processed foods (like avoiding bread, crackers, cookies), with only occasional exception. It helps me to eat my carbs and sweets after dinner too. I have learned never to start my day with carbs, especially cereal. The later in the day I eat them, the fewer cravings I suffer. If I'm going to a party or there's a birthday, I plan for that treat by being stringent the rest of the week, and then I allow myself that yummy piece of cake (but only after a full meal).
  • callsitlikeiseeit
    callsitlikeiseeit Posts: 8,627 Member
    Arizona_C wrote: »
    And two slices of toast with butter and cheese before bedtime, which isn’t the best time for a loaded snack.

    you can have a bedtime snack. i go through periods where ill have toast and peanut butter while I'm in bed :P

    as long as it doesn't interfere with your sleep, its not a big deal (I sleep better on a full stomach!)

  • sarah7591
    sarah7591 Posts: 415 Member
    Wow...this is an interesting thread. I normally have a lot of sugar cravings. I have upped my protein and it seems to help with cravings. I am a vegetarian and always striving to get protein since I don't eat meat.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,489 Member
    For me, I eat everything in moderation. One of my favorite things to eat is Philippine dried mangos. THE BEST. And it's easy to get carried away which is why I weigh portion then put the bag away. If I eat out of the bag, I'll likely finish it quickly.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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  • Arizona_C
    Arizona_C Posts: 1,476 Member

    @Annpt77 it’s a really good question I haven’t asked myself enough. I have been restricting my food intake as long as I can remember, and the protein shake has been a huge step for me to add calories and not cutting.

    I have tried to look up EAA and cannot find a clear answer. The Casein protein I have, originally from milk, being slow released, is that EAA and BCAA?

    @kshama2001, thank you for your advice, I will have another protein shake later in the day, maybe when I come home from work. I make it with half water, half soy milk, and keep it thick, Like that its almost like a dessert.

    @lemurcat2, I wish I could be that cool about the whole thing. Weight food, log, etc, yet in my experience it can freak me out. In the past, I started to log my food and when I discovered how many calories I ate, I started cutting and got caught up. I ended dangerously underweight and even though I put on weight since I somehow I have kept a fearful mindset. Its only sugar that is getting under the radar, and protein and a daily spoonful of oil that I have decided willingly to add.

    It has taken me a bit of time to write, and in between to think. I really like the idea of look at my diet as a whole, and adding healthier food at the same time as I try to cut down sugar. I have started to buy two pieces of fruit in the morning on my way to work when I buy candy. I have never paid attention, but it’s a little marked with all kinds of things, fruit included. So I have both now.

    While I initially thought it would be best just to cut out sweets completely to make a clear cut, I’m as well unsure if it would be possible without backfiring and ending up overeating out of control. I don’t have as much control that I’d like to think, my mind is playing games and I cannot always follow what’s happening and where Im heading. So for the moment, I have added one or two daily fruits, a spoonful of cod liver and its oil, and slow down on sugary snacking. The almonds and seed will be next.

    Thank you all ever so much for the time you find to write on this subject. Reading responses is helping me much to reflect on things and find answers
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,972 Member
    EAA - the essential amino acids: This is IMO not best thought of as a supplementation question, but as a question of getting as much protein as possible from high-quality sources, or from food combinations (over the course of a day or few) that together add up to high-quality protein in terms of the mix of essential amino acids.

    I like to get nutrition from food, personally. As a consequence, I don't know much about supplements. I know that whole dairy (like milk) is a high-quality protein source, but I don't know about extractives like casein.

    If you're an omnivore, then meats and fish can be key sources (are for most people). If vegetarian, maybe dairy and eggs. If vegan or plant-heavy vegetarian, things like good soy food products can be high-quality protein sources. I'm not going to go into combinations, because that's complicated, and realistically it's something that only vegetarians/vegans need to think about (and even we don't necessarily need to get deeply technical about it).

    Just my opinions, though . . . except the part about high-quality protein being important.
  • Jazzykatt
    Jazzykatt Posts: 38 Member
    Sugar is extremely addictive. I am a complete sugar junkie, I have been since I was a child. I’m now in my late 40s and started putting on weight. I have a habit of binge eating cookies, cakes, donuts, candy and anything else sweet I can get my hands on. About two weeks ago, I decided to commit to the 21 day sugar detox. It is not easy and I would be lying if I said I felt so much better. I’m tired but have insomnia. I’m depressed, my skin is blotchy and I have major bags under my eyes. I’m waiting patiently for the upswing. These side effects are a clear result of the damage I have done to my body throughout the years. It’s a 21 day detox but I’m aiming for 30 days. What scares me the most is that I slide back into my addiction at the first taste of sweet goodness. Everything in moderation is a wonderful concept for most people but it doesn’t work for alcoholics and I’m not sure it will work for me. Time will tell. I gave another two weeks left. Obviously, you have some kind of dependency on the stuff. Maybe you should cut the sugar for a bit and see if your taste buds modify.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Arizona_C wrote: »
    In the past, I started to log my food and when I discovered how many calories I ate, I started cutting and got caught up. I ended dangerously underweight and even though I put on weight since I somehow I have kept a fearful mindset. Its only sugar that is getting under the radar, and protein and a daily spoonful of oil that I have decided willingly to add.

    It has taken me a bit of time to write, and in between to think. I really like the idea of look at my diet as a whole, and adding healthier food at the same time as I try to cut down sugar. I have started to buy two pieces of fruit in the morning on my way to work when I buy candy. I have never paid attention, but it’s a little marked with all kinds of things, fruit included. So I have both now.

    While I initially thought it would be best just to cut out sweets completely to make a clear cut, I’m as well unsure if it would be possible without backfiring and ending up overeating out of control. I don’t have as much control that I’d like to think, my mind is playing games and I cannot always follow what’s happening and where Im heading. So for the moment, I have added one or two daily fruits, a spoonful of cod liver and its oil, and slow down on sugary snacking. The almonds and seed will be next.

    If you have a tendency to over do it focusing on adding in healthy foods (especially as you aren't overweight) is likely a good plan. Cutting out all sugar seems similar to cutting cals in terms of your tendency to overdo. If you do feel like trying to log to see how you could improve, I'd stress that your current cals seem fine and no reason to change, and the issue is only nutrition, and you might want to make the diary public to get thoughts in a controlled way.

    But for now I think the fruit instead of (some) candy and otherwise adding in or replacing foods with healthier options is a good one.
  • Arizona_C
    Arizona_C Posts: 1,476 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    If you have a tendency to over do it focusing on adding in healthy foods (especially as you aren't overweight) is likely a good plan. Cutting out all sugar seems similar to cutting cals in terms of your tendency to overdo. If you do feel like trying to log to see how you could improve, I'd stress that your current cals seem fine and no reason to change, and the issue is only nutrition, and you might want to make the diary public to get thoughts in a controlled way.

    But for now I think the fruit instead of (some) candy and otherwise adding in or replacing foods with healthier options is a good one.


    Thank you, it is reassuring me that what I aim to do is a good solution. I keep having a chocolate biscuit here and then, but the avalanche effect has diminished. And I don't buy candy by the bag any longer only individual pieces. It avoids me finishing a 250g bag of licorice if I only have a 40g bar.

    @Jazzykatt, how are you doing by now and how many days are you in? I'd love to have the commitment to start a similar detox but I'm not sure where it would bring me. I hope it will turn out to be a super experience for you and let you start afresh.

    @AnnPT77, I am by definition omnivore, still I have meat maybe once a week, mostly beef. Rest of the time I stick to vegetarian meals. I have added lentils and eggs more often as a protein source, and soy milk daily. What would you consider high-quality protein? Are there low ones, too?

    Thank you ever so much
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,972 Member
    Arizona_C wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    If you have a tendency to over do it focusing on adding in healthy foods (especially as you aren't overweight) is likely a good plan. Cutting out all sugar seems similar to cutting cals in terms of your tendency to overdo. If you do feel like trying to log to see how you could improve, I'd stress that your current cals seem fine and no reason to change, and the issue is only nutrition, and you might want to make the diary public to get thoughts in a controlled way.

    But for now I think the fruit instead of (some) candy and otherwise adding in or replacing foods with healthier options is a good one.


    Thank you, it is reassuring me that what I aim to do is a good solution. I keep having a chocolate biscuit here and then, but the avalanche effect has diminished. And I don't buy candy by the bag any longer only individual pieces. It avoids me finishing a 250g bag of licorice if I only have a 40g bar.

    @Jazzykatt, how are you doing by now and how many days are you in? I'd love to have the commitment to start a similar detox but I'm not sure where it would bring me. I hope it will turn out to be a super experience for you and let you start afresh.

    @AnnPT77, I am by definition omnivore, still I have meat maybe once a week, mostly beef. Rest of the time I stick to vegetarian meals. I have added lentils and eggs more often as a protein source, and soy milk daily. What would you consider high-quality protein? Are there low ones, too?

    Thank you ever so much

    It's hard to generalize about protein quality. Usually, whole-ish soy products are more complete, most animal products (eggs, dairy) are more complete, and there are some others. Most general vegetable sources are relatively incomplete. Absolutely there are low-quality sources. I can't name a specific example, and am too lazy to research, but in theory a food could have a large amount of one or a very few essential amino acids, so have "protein grams", but be lacking in all the other essential amino acids. That would be "low quality" protein.

    Conceptually, it's not that there's an complete vs. incomplete on/off switch. IOW, protein quality isn't a binary. The issue is that we need essential amino acids (EAA) in certain proportions to take best advantage of them. The closer to those proportions a food is, the more nearly complete it is, or the more high-quality a protein source it is.

    But we can reach closer to completeness/high quality by combining foods, too: Eating something lower than ideal in certain essential amino acids, but also something else higher in those particular amino acids (but maybe lower in other ones that the first thing has). Those complementary foods (which is the technical term) don't need to be eaten at exactly the same meal, but within some reasonable time horizon. (What is that horizon? AFAIK, it depends. IMU, the body has some ability to manage digestive process rates to help reach better outcomes, but I don't know the details.)

    If you want to think more about how to get high-quality protein in a plant-based meal(s), consider evidence-based information sources like https://veganhealth.org/.

    Also, the spreadsheet linked in the classic protein thread here on MFP . . .

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

    . . . includes a protein quality score that tries to capture the EAA balance idea in a numeric score (more said about that in the above thread, so I won't go into it here).
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    I think Ann's links/comments are great, and highly recommend Jack Norris (of veganhealth and jacknorrisrd) as a source.

    In general, if one is largely not eating animal products (or not many, inc eggs and dairy, both of which are pretty good sources of protein), I think the best sources of protein are soy (esp tofu and tempeh), seitan (although I've yet to enjoy it, so tend to not eat it myself), and beans and lentils. Nuts and seeds also are a good source, and you will get some from grains and from vegetables. I've experimented off and on with 100% plant-based eating (at the moment I'm eating meat and esp lots of fish as well as eggs and dairy) and find the best option to be to definitely include beans/lentils (can include soy, and if I'm focused on protein I usually do have some soy, usually tofu, during the day, as well as some other beans/lentils), to eat a couple of servings of nuts/seeds, and to eat lots of veg. So long as veg/grains aren't the sole source of protein I think quality is likely to be fine (there are some amino acids that you need either soy or other beans/lentils to get). Quinoa is a source but often overrated -- I guess it's a complete protein but still not actually high in protein per cal. I don't eat a lot of grains (personal taste preference) so haven't focused on them, but they definitely can be a supplement to protein. I'd eat more than the minimum if in a no animal products diet (or rare animal products) since you aren't using complete sources. Variety is important, but that can be over the course of the whole day.

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