Failure to recomp; advice requested
friedpet
Posts: 20 Member
I attempted a recomp last year from June through November (the five months my gym was open). Despite maintaining a steady weight of 155lbs +/- 2lbs, following a slightly-modified PHUL routine, and averaging 130g of protein per day, I achieved no real results.
June:
November:
Am I just expecting results too early? I understand the process is slow, but I thought five months would have been enough to see some improvement. I made very modest gains in my lift weights, but that's about it.
Now that my gym is open again, I'm wondering if I should keep going with this approach and just wait longer or change something up. Any advice is appreciated.
June:
November:
Am I just expecting results too early? I understand the process is slow, but I thought five months would have been enough to see some improvement. I made very modest gains in my lift weights, but that's about it.
Now that my gym is open again, I'm wondering if I should keep going with this approach and just wait longer or change something up. Any advice is appreciated.
0
Replies
-
You should have seen or measured some progress in that time.
That you describe your gains as "modest" I would look at your training as a first step in identifying the issue rather than diet or that you are maintaining weight. You haven't given your training history or age so hard to tell the context. In numbers how much more weight are you lifting on your big compound lifts would help for context too.
Are you a beginner to weight/strength training?
(At age 60 I could see visible change and my weights lifted shot up in a far shorter timescale during the period my gym reopened. A big part of me being able to gain strength quickly is that I'm returning to a previous training level, regaining rather than gaining for the first time. )
If your training isn't effective, or you don't respond well to that training eating more isn't going to fix that. To use Eric Helms phrase "diet is permissive". It allows you to get the best results from your training but doesn't drive the process of gaining muscle.2 -
It seems like the only progress you are measuring is visual. Let's think about more objective ones. The scale stayed the same, so you did maintain. Did you take any tape or BF measurements? What about increases in rep counts and/or amount lifted?1
-
Yeah, I realized after posting that some more context would probably be useful. I'm 36 years old and not a complete newbie to weight training. Prior to the first closure in March, I'd been training for about a year using a different program. My starting weight was 175, and I dropped to ~150. Fluffed up to 155 during the first lockdown, and started again in June using the PHUL program.
As far as my big compounds go:- Bench press
- March 16: 19 reps @ 60lbs (5,5,5,4)
- June 14: 17 reps @ 50lbs (5,5,4,3)
- November 10: 18 reps @ 70lbs (5,5,4,4)
- Arnold press (my sub for OHP)
- March 16: 15 reps @ 30lbs (7,4,4)
- June 14: 22 reps @ 20lbs (8,8,6)
- November 12: 24 reps @ 25lbs (8,8,8)
- March 9: 13 reps @ 50lbs (5,5,4)
- June 15: 15 reps @ 25lbs (5,5,4,3)
- November 9: 16 reps @ 70lbs (5,5,4,2)
Frustratingly, I used the scale again last night, and even though I only gained 0.3lbs during the closure, my BF went from 16.5% to 19%. I am clearly able to recomp in reverse.0 - Bench press
-
I definitely think you need to look at your programming. I don't mean anything disrespectful, but as a 100lb woman, those would be my warmup weights. It looks like you are not stressing your muscles enough or following a program that challenges you enough. I am not in any way an expert and there are others here that can help you much better than I can with programming, but just food for thought.8
-
Not being rude but those weights are extraordinarily low for a 36 YO male training regularly.The relationship between strength and muscle growth is complex but you really should be getting a lot stronger than that very quickly.
What prompts you to increase the weights?
Are the last couple of reps of your sets actually starting to feel like you are working hard?
Are you actually failing to complete sets when you increase weight on the bar/use a heavier dumbbell?
Something is badly off with your training (or less likely, your response to training e.g. a health issue).
As your gym is open again could you get a PT to give you some pointers?5 -
I increase weight on a lift when I hit the recommended rep/set cap for the weight. For example, I'll increase my bench press weight when I can do four sets of five reps as prescribed in the PHUL program. I don't always go to failure, but I have no more than 2 RIR when I don't reach the target number of reps in a set. I do at least three sets of every lift and reliably fail to hit cap on the third if not the second. If I hit cap on the last set, I'll increase the weight the following week.What prompts you to increase the weights?
Are the last couple of reps of your sets actually starting to feel like you are working hard?
Are you actually failing to complete sets when you increase weight on the bar/use a heavier dumbbell?
0 -
I increase weight on a lift when I hit the recommended rep/set cap for the weight. For example, I'll increase my bench press weight when I can do four sets of five reps as prescribed in the PHUL program. I don't always go to failure, but I have no more than 2 RIR when I don't reach the target number of reps in a set. I do at least three sets of every lift and reliably fail to hit cap on the third if not the second. If I hit cap on the last set, I'll increase the weight the following week.What prompts you to increase the weights?
Are the last couple of reps of your sets actually starting to feel like you are working hard?
Are you actually failing to complete sets when you increase weight on the bar/use a heavier dumbbell?
You don't need to go to failure but you do need to put enough stress on your muscles to force adaptation.
Sounds like you have chosen a reputable program and are following it.
Why you aren't increasing strength far more rapidly is a mystery to me. Can only suggest getting hands on help from a PT and maybe investigating health issues via blood tests etc.
Your calorie goal does seem low to me but unless you are tired/hungry/listless I wouldn't expect that to be the main issue - although it's the most simple one to experiment with.3 -
Something's not right. The weights do seem on the light side and the progression slow. I'm on a recomp and am a pretty newbie lifter. I doubled pretty much all my weights in 16 weeks. Now up to the likes of 50kg deadlifts (and soon to go higher), 40kg squats and 20kg OHP. My bodyweight is 75kg and I'm a female in her 50s. So I agree with the others who say your stats are odd.
However, do not pay any mind to the gym's BF scales. Unless you use those things regularly at the same time of day under the same conditions over a long period of time to see a very rough trend you are not going to gain any valuable information from them. Mine can change their mind on BF percentages every time I step on and off them in the space of 10 minutes sometimes. You're far better off with a tape measure and photos ongoing.2 -
Agree, I'm a woman and I very quickly (less time than June - November) got to 60kgs squats on the strong lifts programme without any previous background in weight training. Are you sure you are measuring the weight correctly (e.g. also counting the weight of the bar)?
It sounds like you might benefit from focussing on increasing the weight, even if you don't do as many reps, to stress your muscles.1 -
Like most have said you need to up the weight you are lifting. I’m not strong at all but I lift much heavier than you. Maybe look at doing 5-8 reps and once can get 8 reps up the weight slightly and work back up from 5 to 8 reps1
-
Maybe get your testosterone levels checked? Other bloodwork? If you really are pushing hard and not lifting more than that, it sounds like something is up. As a 50 year old woman beginner of a similar weight to yours I could bench press 70 lbs on my first attempt, and hit 125 in about the same time frame you’re describing.3
-
I wasn't including barbell weight in my figures, so I guess that would change both my bench press and squat to 115lbs (52kgs) before the gym closed. Still underwhelming, it would seem, and not progressing as they should. Arnold press weights are per dumbbell.
I've been told before that my calorie targets are low, but my body seems to maintain at this intake level.
On power days, my bench press and squat sets are 3-5 reps, and my Arnold presses are 5-8 reps.Like most have said you need to up the weight you are lifting. I’m not strong at all but I lift much heavier than you. Maybe look at doing 5-8 reps and once can get 8 reps up the weight slightly and work back up from 5 to 8 reps
0 -
I've been told before that my calorie targets are low, but my body seems to maintain at this intake level.
First, this piece is about a problem women get, so that's not the point here.
Second, men have less hormone involvement obviously, but need some of the right kind.
Third, the point I want to share is the body, even for a guy, can get into the state where it can subsist on lower than expected calories, not lose weight, but it sure isn't going to expend energy on whatever it considers lower priority items. If building muscle turns into higher priority, it'll sacrifice something else (we want it to be fat of course). But in your case perhaps that is not the case, the other systems in body are safe - but it ain't going to build muscle on what you are doing now.
http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-female-athlete-triad-not-as-fun-as-it-sounds/
How long in a diet prior, how extreme or fast of loss to current weight?
From calculators, does eating level seem to be correct when accounting for honest daily activity and exercise levels?
2 -
Started my diet in April 2019 at 175lbs. Lowest weight was 148lbs in March 2020. I am 6'0".How long in a diet prior, how extreme or fast of loss to current weight?
From calculators, does eating level seem to be correct when accounting for honest daily activity and exercise levels?
According to calculators, my TDEE for sedentary is 2034.9 calories, so yes, I'm eating below that. However, I do have one day per week I don't track (though I don't go crazy), so I expect that day is making up for the deficit in the others. Per the article, I don't have much exposure to injury, but I have never seriously hurt myself in 18 months of lifting. I know I'm not going to bulk eating like this, but my weight is staying steady. I understood that recomping is eating at maintenance and progressive lifting on a program, so I don't know why it doesn't seem to be working.
0 -
Started my diet in April 2019 at 175lbs. Lowest weight was 148lbs in March 2020. I am 6'0".How long in a diet prior, how extreme or fast of loss to current weight?
From calculators, does eating level seem to be correct when accounting for honest daily activity and exercise levels?
According to calculators, my TDEE for sedentary is 2034.9 calories, so yes, I'm eating below that. However, I do have one day per week I don't track (though I don't go crazy), so I expect that day is making up for the deficit in the others. Per the article, I don't have much exposure to injury, but I have never seriously hurt myself in 18 months of lifting. I know I'm not going to bulk eating like this, but my weight is staying steady. I understood that recomping is eating at maintenance and progressive lifting on a program, so I don't know why it doesn't seem to be working.
That's still very low calorie intake. It's possible to train your body to limp along on low calories, IMO, but that's not a path of thriving. Recomping successfully would be more viable if thriving, I think?
There are a lot of older, smaller women here eating as much or more than you are, and maintaining, maybe even losing. I'm one (5'5", 125.8 pounds this morning, age 65, sedentary outside of intentional exercise, fairly active . . . losing ultra slowly on 1850 net calories for months now, eating between 2100-2200 calories most days (with the added calories from my exercise . . . and I've tossed some very high calorie indulgent meals/days in there along the way, too).
I admit, I'm a mysteriously good li'l ol' calorie burner, but I'm not the only one here who's much smaller, older, female-er than you, but eating as much or more.
The consequences of undereating can be diverse. If you haven't seen injuries, that's wonderful. But really, consider bumping up your calorie intake. Do it gradually, if it's stressful for you to increase. See what happens. Don't over-react to quick scale jumps, wait on multi-week trends. It'll be OK.
ETA: Great article at the link, @heybales .2 -
My ultimate goal is to lose my belly fat. I'm not looking for a six-pack; just a flat stomach. Eating more to achieve that goal seems counterintuitive and will present a challenge psychologically. What I'm doing clearly isn't working, though, so I might as well give it a shot. Given my lack of activity outside of the gym (approximately 4 hours per week) and my cheat day, what do you recommend should be my target for a six-foot, 155-pound man?0
-
Do you log the cheat day to know how much it really adds to the weekly and changes your average?
The idea too, once you know what an increase really would be, is like 100 extra daily for a week. Then another increase of 100, ect.
But it could be that when you say cheat, you really mean binge, big calorie, eat all you see.1 -
My ultimate goal is to lose my belly fat. I'm not looking for a six-pack; just a flat stomach. Eating more to achieve that goal seems counterintuitive and will present a challenge psychologically. What I'm doing clearly isn't working, though, so I might as well give it a shot. Given my lack of activity outside of the gym (approximately 4 hours per week) and my cheat day, what do you recommend should be my target for a six-foot, 155-pound man?
Try eating about 2500 calories per day and see how your body reacts. For a man you seem to be eating way too low calories1 -
matthewbland wrote: »My ultimate goal is to lose my belly fat. I'm not looking for a six-pack; just a flat stomach. Eating more to achieve that goal seems counterintuitive and will present a challenge psychologically. What I'm doing clearly isn't working, though, so I might as well give it a shot. Given my lack of activity outside of the gym (approximately 4 hours per week) and my cheat day, what do you recommend should be my target for a six-foot, 155-pound man?
Try eating about 2500 calories per day and see how your body reacts. For a man you seem to be eating way too low calories
2500 is high for his size; I weigh 20 lbs more and that's right around my TDEE. I do agree OP needs to eat more, I'd suggest 2250 as a ballpark for a recomp target. Given the results to this point I don't think the training stimulus is intense enough to suggest a calorie surplus and have it result in anything beyond unwanted fat gain.0 -
My ultimate goal is to lose my belly fat. I'm not looking for a six-pack; just a flat stomach. Eating more to achieve that goal seems counterintuitive and will present a challenge psychologically. What I'm doing clearly isn't working, though, so I might as well give it a shot. Given my lack of activity outside of the gym (approximately 4 hours per week) and my cheat day, what do you recommend should be my target for a six-foot, 155-pound man?
I had a quick look at your diary and of the days that you had logged, you were often 200-300 cals below your goal of 1900, which is below maintenance. Hopefully your logging is inaccurate and you're eating more than is in your diary? you don't need a calorie deficit for recomp.
Just for another comparison, i am 5ft5 and 133lbs and I maintain on net 1950 cals, you're netting 15-1600 cals regularly. Unless your cheat day is around 4000 cals you're nowhere near maintenance by the end of the week.
5 -
I do log everything I eat on days I track, so that's an accurate view of my diet (minus the holiday weeks). My cheat day isn't an all-out splurge; I'll typically have a plate of phad Thai from a local restaurant and a small dessert with snacks scattered on either side. My weight has remained steady for the past few months, so maybe that does come out to 4000 calories. Then again, as suggested by AnnPT77, perhaps my maintenance level is unhealthily low and that's why I'm not recomping.thisvickyruns wrote: »My ultimate goal is to lose my belly fat. I'm not looking for a six-pack; just a flat stomach. Eating more to achieve that goal seems counterintuitive and will present a challenge psychologically. What I'm doing clearly isn't working, though, so I might as well give it a shot. Given my lack of activity outside of the gym (approximately 4 hours per week) and my cheat day, what do you recommend should be my target for a six-foot, 155-pound man?
I had a quick look at your diary and of the days that you had logged, you were often 200-300 cals below your goal of 1900, which is below maintenance. Hopefully your logging is inaccurate and you're eating more than is in your diary? you don't need a calorie deficit for recomp.
Just for another comparison, i am 5ft5 and 133lbs and I maintain on net 1950 cals, you're netting 15-1600 cals regularly. Unless your cheat day is around 4000 cals you're nowhere near maintenance by the end of the week.1 -
If your weight has remained steady for a few months, then there isn't anything wrong with your calorie level itself. But recomp also required stressing your body in the right way with your resistance training.1
-
Your workouts seem like maintenance when it comes to poundages. I'd be looking to increasing the poundages by quite a bit. Your muscles aren't getting taxed enough for any growth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
I'm not sure how much more I can increase the weights without risking injury. As I said, I do my big compound lifts in 4 sets of 3-5 reps. Most of the time, I fail to hit five reps on the last set; if I do hit it, I'll increase weight the following session.Your workouts seem like maintenance when it comes to poundages. I'd be looking to increasing the poundages by quite a bit. Your muscles aren't getting taxed enough for any growth.
0 -
I'm not sure how much more I can increase the weights without risking injury. As I said, I do my big compound lifts in 4 sets of 3-5 reps. Most of the time, I fail to hit five reps on the last set; if I do hit it, I'll increase weight the following session.Your workouts seem like maintenance when it comes to poundages. I'd be looking to increasing the poundages by quite a bit. Your muscles aren't getting taxed enough for any growth.
Have you experimented yet with gently ramping up your calories?0 -
Well, it IS recomp the normally people that do it already have put a little muscle on and are willing to go the SLOW route to adding more. IMO, you'd be much better off bulking up then cutting again since your muscle mass is slight. Yes fat comes with that but unless you're going to be patience with recomp, putting on muscle takes time even with bulking.
I'm not sure how much more I can increase the weights without risking injury. As I said, I do my big compound lifts in 4 sets of 3-5 reps. Most of the time, I fail to hit five reps on the last set; if I do hit it, I'll increase weight the following session.Your workouts seem like maintenance when it comes to poundages. I'd be looking to increasing the poundages by quite a bit. Your muscles aren't getting taxed enough for any growth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
So it's possible to be too under-muscled to effectively recomp? I'm usually very patient if I'm seeing some sort of progress, even if it's slow. My concern is that I put in five months of effort last year for essentially nothing, and I want to avoid that again if I can.
Well, it IS recomp the normally people that do it already have put a little muscle on and are willing to go the SLOW route to adding more. IMO, you'd be much better off bulking up then cutting again since your muscle mass is slight. Yes fat comes with that but unless you're going to be patience with recomp, putting on muscle takes time even with bulking.
I'm not sure how much more I can increase the weights without risking injury. As I said, I do my big compound lifts in 4 sets of 3-5 reps. Most of the time, I fail to hit five reps on the last set; if I do hit it, I'll increase weight the following session.Your workouts seem like maintenance when it comes to poundages. I'd be looking to increasing the poundages by quite a bit. Your muscles aren't getting taxed enough for any growth.0 -
I've not done recomp with many clients but for a couple of times. Both times they did, they were experienced lifters and had some muscle.
So it's possible to be too under-muscled to effectively recomp? I'm usually very patient if I'm seeing some sort of progress, even if it's slow. My concern is that I put in five months of effort last year for essentially nothing, and I want to avoid that again if I can.
Well, it IS recomp the normally people that do it already have put a little muscle on and are willing to go the SLOW route to adding more. IMO, you'd be much better off bulking up then cutting again since your muscle mass is slight. Yes fat comes with that but unless you're going to be patience with recomp, putting on muscle takes time even with bulking.
I'm not sure how much more I can increase the weights without risking injury. As I said, I do my big compound lifts in 4 sets of 3-5 reps. Most of the time, I fail to hit five reps on the last set; if I do hit it, I'll increase weight the following session.Your workouts seem like maintenance when it comes to poundages. I'd be looking to increasing the poundages by quite a bit. Your muscles aren't getting taxed enough for any growth.
IMO, you don't have a lot give up on the fat side and gaining muscle usually means gain in weight for someone who's not overweight. Which is why I think you should consider eating even in a slight surplus to help put on some muscle easier.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions