Acquaintance Asked Me to be Accountability Partners?
Replies
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I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.7
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My take......
He is looking for a promotion or political office and partook in some, maybe, non consensual hanky-panky that he now wants to cover up with a bribe.
Or. He has been contacted by a long lost child and is trying to find out who the mother is.
I know, too much time in my hands and too vivid an imagination.
Avoid him like the plague, but fore warn the woman.
Cheers, h.10 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »Whoa, sounds like you dodged a bullet with that guy. Poor guy, maybe he's in some "program" where he feels like he needs to make amends to anyone he's ever wronged in his life.
Hmm.
Never heard of a financial component to AA Step 9 / making amends though. Seems like someone willing to pay $2,000 has some LEGAL exposure, not just moral, or is in need of real therapy.
I'm not familiar with the details of 12-step programs, but the idea that workout guy might be involved one makes me wonder what these programs say about making amends with someone who wants zero to do with you, arguably with good reason. Surely if someone going through a 12-step program has harmed someone, the injured party ought to have the right to not have anything to do with that person, even if they're trying to apologize and atone.
Absolutely right. Part of making amends is understanding that the wronged party doesn’t owe the person in the program anything, not accepting the apology or even listening to it if you have made them uncomfortable enough in the past not to want anything to do with you.
https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/making-amends-addiction-recoveryShould I Try to Make Amends with Someone Who Doesn't Want to Hear from Me?
No matter how much we feel the need to make things right, forcing another to meet with us or hear from us is not part of the Steps. When those we've hurt are not able or willing to accept our amends, we can still move in a positive general direction by taking intentional steps to be of service to others or making living amends.
It's important to note that making amends is for the person we hurt. Yes, we partake in the process to "clean up our side of the street," but we do not make amends to clear our conscience or undo our feelings of guilt. If someone does not want to hear from us, we respect that and do our best to move forward with our recoveries.4 -
msalicia07 wrote: »I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.
I agree with this. She needs to be kept in the loop. For whatever reason, this guy is stalking her.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »Whoa, sounds like you dodged a bullet with that guy. Poor guy, maybe he's in some "program" where he feels like he needs to make amends to anyone he's ever wronged in his life.
Hmm.
Never heard of a financial component to AA Step 9 / making amends though. Seems like someone willing to pay $2,000 has some LEGAL exposure, not just moral, or is in need of real therapy.
I'm not familiar with the details of 12-step programs, but the idea that workout guy might be involved one makes me wonder what these programs say about making amends with someone who wants zero to do with you, arguably with good reason. Surely if someone going through a 12-step program has harmed someone, the injured party ought to have the right to not have anything to do with that person, even if they're trying to apologize and atone.
Absolutely right. Part of making amends is understanding that the wronged party doesn’t owe the person in the program anything, not accepting the apology or even listening to it if you have made them uncomfortable enough in the past not to want anything to do with you.
https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/making-amends-addiction-recoveryShould I Try to Make Amends with Someone Who Doesn't Want to Hear from Me?
No matter how much we feel the need to make things right, forcing another to meet with us or hear from us is not part of the Steps. When those we've hurt are not able or willing to accept our amends, we can still move in a positive general direction by taking intentional steps to be of service to others or making living amends.
It's important to note that making amends is for the person we hurt. Yes, we partake in the process to "clean up our side of the street," but we do not make amends to clear our conscience or undo our feelings of guilt. If someone does not want to hear from us, we respect that and do our best to move forward with our recoveries.
Thank you.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I just want to say that "Joe" seems like a very decent human being. A lot of people might think, "$1000 just to set up a meeting for workout guy to apologize for something college-girl-now-woman doesn't even remember? Sweet!" but there's all kinds of potential creepy badness potential in workout guy's proposal.
Yep, "Joe" is a standup individual and $1k wouldn't make a difference in his life, and even if it did, wouldn't take it given the circumstances.1 -
msalicia07 wrote: »I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.
I had a conversation with Joe.
The woman does remember workout guy, but barely, it was 40 years ago and not really a traumatic event in the big picture to her. Workout guy and the woman were in a golf class and got assigned as partners. Apparently workout guy developed a crush on the woman that wasn't mutual. It was making her uncomfortable, she dropped the class and avoided him around campus when possible. "Joe" had actually dated the woman for a couple months in college. They broke it off but remained friends, communicate occasionally and "Joe" and his wife have visited with the woman and her husband. The woman told "Joe" she has no ill will toward workout guy but has no desire to communicate with him. "Joe" mentioned this to workout guy but he "can't find closure".
In workout guy's email to "Joe" he mentions being a long term member and active in his church. "Joe" and I discussed and I think I'm going to reach out in confidentiality to the priest and ask him if he's noted anything different about workout guy's behavior.
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It just keeps getting weirder.
:-/4 -
Wow this got wild. Lol
It’s unfortunate that you and “Joe” got mixed up in this mess. I totally understand someone wanting to make amends or attempt to right a wrong from the past, but it’s concerning that workout guy doesn’t realize that he may be creating more harm by pushing the issue and trying to apologize! College girl, turned woman doesn’t seem to be bothered by the past as she moved on with her life and had to think about what this “wrong” was that he was trying to apologize for. She’s probably more uncomfortable now than she was then! Someone willing to pay $2000 to apologize for a crush that made someone uncomfortable years ago is a little far out. Not a bad idea to reach out to someone more embedded in his life, such as his priest who could possibly help him work through the situation in a healthier way, and try to get out of this strange Lifetime movie...
Good luck to you and “Joe”, glad you 2 connected and put the pieces together on this!2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.
I had a conversation with Joe.
The woman does remember workout guy, but barely, it was 40 years ago and not really a traumatic event in the big picture to her. Workout guy and the woman were in a golf class and got assigned as partners. Apparently workout guy developed a crush on the woman that wasn't mutual. It was making her uncomfortable, she dropped the class and avoided him around campus when possible. "Joe" had actually dated the woman for a couple months in college. They broke it off but remained friends, communicate occasionally and "Joe" and his wife have visited with the woman and her husband. The woman told "Joe" she has no ill will toward workout guy but has no desire to communicate with him. "Joe" mentioned this to workout guy but he "can't find closure".
In workout guy's email to "Joe" he mentions being a long term member and active in his church. "Joe" and I discussed and I think I'm going to reach out in confidentiality to the priest and ask him if he's noted anything different about workout guy's behavior.
Hey, thank you for the update! Couple thoughts- What about informing her of the fact he is clearly obsessed? This is her life to decide the proper precautions, not really up to anyone else how to make that call and what to do. I personally would be upset that it wasn’t communicated directly to me but to people around me instead. Food for thought.
I do think it’s a good idea for people in his circle keep an eye on him though. Sometimes things seem innocent enough until they don’t.2 -
msalicia07 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.
I had a conversation with Joe.
The woman does remember workout guy, but barely, it was 40 years ago and not really a traumatic event in the big picture to her. Workout guy and the woman were in a golf class and got assigned as partners. Apparently workout guy developed a crush on the woman that wasn't mutual. It was making her uncomfortable, she dropped the class and avoided him around campus when possible. "Joe" had actually dated the woman for a couple months in college. They broke it off but remained friends, communicate occasionally and "Joe" and his wife have visited with the woman and her husband. The woman told "Joe" she has no ill will toward workout guy but has no desire to communicate with him. "Joe" mentioned this to workout guy but he "can't find closure".
In workout guy's email to "Joe" he mentions being a long term member and active in his church. "Joe" and I discussed and I think I'm going to reach out in confidentiality to the priest and ask him if he's noted anything different about workout guy's behavior.
Hey thank you for the update! Couple thoughts- What about informing her of the fact he is clearly obsessed? This is her life to decide the proper precautions, not really up to anyone else how to make that call and what to do. I personally would be upset that it wasn’t communicated directly to me but to people around me instead. Food for thought.
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. "Joe" has told the woman about workout guy's contacts with him.
Workout guy has tried contacting the women via LinkedIn to the point she deleted her account. " Joe's" understanding is the woman messaged workout guy back initially, told him any issues were in the past, she has no ill will against him but would prefer mot to communicate any more.
The woman retired from a successful career and was working part time at a clothing store for something to do. Apparently workout guy saw the name of the store where she was working om LinkedIn before she deleted her account. He showed up there a few times that happened to be her day off but he identified himself to other employees and said he wanted to talk to her.
Workout guy isn't getting the hint.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.
I had a conversation with Joe.
The woman does remember workout guy, but barely, it was 40 years ago and not really a traumatic event in the big picture to her. Workout guy and the woman were in a golf class and got assigned as partners. Apparently workout guy developed a crush on the woman that wasn't mutual. It was making her uncomfortable, she dropped the class and avoided him around campus when possible. "Joe" had actually dated the woman for a couple months in college. They broke it off but remained friends, communicate occasionally and "Joe" and his wife have visited with the woman and her husband. The woman told "Joe" she has no ill will toward workout guy but has no desire to communicate with him. "Joe" mentioned this to workout guy but he "can't find closure".
In workout guy's email to "Joe" he mentions being a long term member and active in his church. "Joe" and I discussed and I think I'm going to reach out in confidentiality to the priest and ask him if he's noted anything different about workout guy's behavior.
Hey thank you for the update! Couple thoughts- What about informing her of the fact he is clearly obsessed? This is her life to decide the proper precautions, not really up to anyone else how to make that call and what to do. I personally would be upset that it wasn’t communicated directly to me but to people around me instead. Food for thought.
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. "Joe" has told the woman about workout guy's contacts with him.
Workout guy has tried contacting the women via LinkedIn to the point she deleted her account. " Joe's" understanding is the woman messaged workout guy back initially, told him any issues were in the past, she has no ill will against him but would prefer mot to communicate any more.
The woman retired from a successful career and was working part time at a clothing store for something to do. Apparently workout guy saw the name of the store where she was working om LinkedIn before she deleted her account. He showed up there a few times that happened to be her day off but he identified himself to other employees and said he wanted to talk to her.
Workout guy isn't getting the hint.
Not your fault, I just wasn’t getting the full picture for some reason. I understood she was invited to meet and declined, but didn’t realize she understood the extent of his efforts after she rejected the offer. Just hope I don’t have to watch this story on ID someday. This gets more alarming by the minute.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »msalicia07 wrote: »I have to say I’m concerned for the woman. She doesn’t remember him, yet he’s willing to pay money to force a connection. Sounds like he may have some obsession with her. For her safety she might need to know these details.
I had a conversation with Joe.
The woman does remember workout guy, but barely, it was 40 years ago and not really a traumatic event in the big picture to her. Workout guy and the woman were in a golf class and got assigned as partners. Apparently workout guy developed a crush on the woman that wasn't mutual. It was making her uncomfortable, she dropped the class and avoided him around campus when possible. "Joe" had actually dated the woman for a couple months in college. They broke it off but remained friends, communicate occasionally and "Joe" and his wife have visited with the woman and her husband. The woman told "Joe" she has no ill will toward workout guy but has no desire to communicate with him. "Joe" mentioned this to workout guy but he "can't find closure".
In workout guy's email to "Joe" he mentions being a long term member and active in his church. "Joe" and I discussed and I think I'm going to reach out in confidentiality to the priest and ask him if he's noted anything different about workout guy's behavior.
I've seen obsessive "can't find closure" behavior in others in the past, but never for something so old.
This is disturbing, especially as you go on to say he showed up at her place of work. I agree with reaching out with his priest.
I used to have a freelance writer who was not aware that I could see previous versions of Google docs. I used to check these, and once was horrified to find suicidal ideation, including details of a method and a plan. (She clearly thought that once she wrote over it it disappeared forever.)
I struggled with what to do. This was last Spring, when I was very aware of how encounters with the police could go terribly wrong. I reached out to some mental health agencies in her community, but the police are the only option for "wellness" checks, and they are generally not adequately trained for this. My own brother, who is mentally ill, has had a wellness check go very badly.
I finally sent the information to the friend of hers who had referred her to me, which I thought was a violation of her privacy, but my other two options - doing nothing or calling the police - were not acceptable to me.
I didn't ask for details on how it went, but they both thanked me, and that's all the closure I needed.10 -
You said everyone involved is married, does this include workout guy? If so, should someone get his wife involved and maybe she can talk some sense into him?2
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Regarding old history cropping up: a few years ago my retired English teacher answered his door and was shot dead by a high school classmate he hadn't seen in over 50 years.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I hear ya. & granted I don’t know these people, so I don’t know how far workout guy will go... but I worry for college girl-turned woman’s safety since he’s clearly showing stalking behaviors!3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I hear ya. & granted I don’t know these people, so I don’t know how far workout guy will go... but I worry for college girl-turned woman’s safety since he’s clearly showing stalking behaviors!
Maybe someone should slip an anonymous note to college girls current husband and let him handle it? As a husband myself, if some creeper from years ago started stalking MY wife, I'd sure as hell want to know and take steps to nip that crap in the bud...8 -
Let me get this straight: this guy is finding anyway he can to meet with this woman, including tracking down old acquaintances and acquaintances of acquaintances and offering a lot of money to meet with her, to apologize for his "old" stalking-like behaviors that made her uncomfortable? Seems like he didn't learn his lesson the first time around and clearly has some issues to work out.8
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This saga reminds me of something that happened to me about 20 years ago, when I used to work in a petrol service station...
A customer was paying for his petrol, and said he really wanted to cut my hair (it was very long, and admittedly, a bit unkempt!). He gave me a business card with his details: he was a (local) builder by trade, drove a van with his full name and contact details over it (all of which matched the details on the card). He was very charming, explaining that cutting hair was a ‘bit of a hobby’, so I took his card to humour him - after he left I threw the card away and forgot all about it. A week or so passed, and he came back in to buy more petrol and ‘by the way’, quizzed me why I hadn’t called him for that haircut... I gave him some excuse (like “Oh, just been too busy, sorry”) and he made me promise to call - I said sure, I’ll give it some thought, and off he went.
After my shift, I went home and I was on the phone to a friend laughing about my ‘funny visitor’, and I looked down out of my bedroom window onto the street to see his van pulling up outside my house Suddenly, NOT funny anymore. He couldn’t see me from where I was - it was dark outside, luckily all my lights were all off and the curtains open, like no-one was home - and he just SAT there, under the street light, in his van... I stayed on the phone to my friend, and she was poised to call the police if he got out. He left after about 20 very scary minutes.
I was quite shaken by this, and considered contacting the police, but he hadn’t actually done anything illegal - just creepy. I vaguely knew this guy’s dad (it’s a very small town!) so the next day I contacted him to ‘casually’ ask what the deal was “with the haircutting thing”, and I got the distinct feeling it wasn’t the first time he’d been asked about it... he told me not to worry about it and he would “sort it out”, and he did - I never saw the guy again. Now, I don’t know what my Hairstylist Guy’s intentions actually were - they could have been entirely innocent - but when something feels ‘off’ I think there’s probably a good reason.
And I think there’s something very ‘off’ with Workout Guy.8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Who has more "right" to peaceful existence? The person who hasn't had anything to do with workout guy since college, or the person married "in sickness and in health" to workout guy for 30+ years?
Workout guy sounds "off" and people around him such as his priest and wife should probably become aware of this and intervene to get him to get help and medication before he breaks even further from reality...
Or... it's time to step away and shut the lot out of your life if you can convince yourself that this ain't your *kitten* to deal with.2 -
I would be tempted to point out to workout guy -- who I think maybe we should start calling stalker guy -- that several people/witnesses now know about his inappropriate behavior (including you, "Joe," and the other workers at the clothing store) on more than one occasion, so in his own self-interest he should back off before he finds himself doing something stupid/criminal.
Maybe his sense of self-preservation is stronger than his stalker tendencies. He left her alone for decades. He may be able to manage to leave her alone again.1 -
the lockdown has made us all think about what is lacking in our lives. He most likely has made a decision to be more friendly and open to people. So, he asked you about working out as a step toward that.
I like your approach to offer to still socialize with him..and you could lay it on the table, tell him you like to work out independently without having to check in with another person...but you'd love to say hi when he's at the gym...even catch coffee. He couldn't feel bad about that.0 -
elisa123gal wrote: »the lockdown has made us all think about what is lacking in our lives. He most likely has made a decision to be more friendly and open to people. So, he asked you about working out as a step toward that.
I like your approach to offer to still socialize with him..and you could lay it on the table, tell him you like to work out independently without having to check in with another person...but you'd love to say hi when he's at the gym...even catch coffee. He couldn't feel bad about that.
@elisa123gal
This is one thread you really should take the time to read through -- not because I (or anyone else) might object to your responding to an out-of-date version of what's really going on, but because you are missing all the drama. I mean all of it -- all of the crazy, messy, human interaction we're all supposedly missing in lockdown.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I hear ya. & granted I don’t know these people, so I don’t know how far workout guy will go... but I worry for college girl-turned woman’s safety since he’s clearly showing stalking behaviors!
Maybe someone should slip an anonymous note to college girls current husband and let him handle it? As a husband myself, if some creeper from years ago started stalking MY wife, I'd sure as hell want to know and take steps to nip that crap in the bud...
College girl's husband knows about workout guy per my conversation with "Joe". Apparently originally didn't bother him but starting to get on his nerves now.3 -
elisa123gal wrote: »the lockdown has made us all think about what is lacking in our lives. He most likely has made a decision to be more friendly and open to people. So, he asked you about working out as a step toward that.
I like your approach to offer to still socialize with him..and you could lay it on the table, tell him you like to work out independently without having to check in with another person...but you'd love to say hi when he's at the gym...even catch coffee. He couldn't feel bad about that.
This is why I try very hard to read the whole thread before I comment.4 -
Just a follow up to this. I contacted workout guy's priest. The priest said he hadn't seen him for a long time due to Covid. He suggested "Joe" and I should, "intervene forcefully with a word of rebuke and encouragement for professional help."
"Joe" and I talked and decided we will do that. "Joe" has some personal health issues he needs to get taken care of before go down that trail though.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Just a follow up to this. I contacted workout guy's priest. The priest said he hadn't seen him for a long time due to Covid. He suggested "Joe" and I should, "intervene forcefully with a word of rebuke and encouragement for professional help."
"Joe" and I talked and decided we will do that. "Joe" has some personal health issues he needs to get taken care of before go down that trail though.
Thanks for the update! It’s too bad the priest couldn't be any more help with intervening. It’s great that you and Joe want to help and are willing to address workout guy. But at this fork in the road, I’d recommend letting college girl/turned woman and her husband be involved in the decision on how to move forward. (Especially since Joe has some health concerns that need to be priority over resolving this issue). Maybe they will bless off on the plan you and Joe have come up with and will be happy to let you 2 handle this. Maybe they want to take more drastic measures or maybe they want it left alone. I wouldn’t want to do nothing in this situation, but I wouldn’t want to move forward without their input. After all it is their life, you and Joe just got pulled into the web along the way. Good luck to all of you involved.6 -
Just got caught up on this thread--can only say Wow! to the weird turn of events. Sometimes as people get "older" something snaps and they can fixate on a person from the past. It's hard to stop them, it's an obsession. A friend of my husband did this, all normal and then started writing love letters to a nobilwoman here and just started stalking her--loopy. The guy had an important job in Law, and it was completely out of character. The woman threatened legal action and in the end he dropped it. But he started having serious mental problems and that was just the first sign.
This is not to take lightly. I don't think he'll give up easily.3 -
Oh, man, Oldguy. I'd stay out of it completely unless workout guy brings it up again - then I'd lay it out to him.
I don't know why the priest decided that you should do anything at all. It's not your business. I agree with qhob_89, the woman and her husband know about it and they can do what they think is necessary.
There are plenty of crazies out there and I don't think I'd want to hook my line to this one in any way.5
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