Lets talk glycogen stores - in non-athletes/women
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You're going to crash it again - I can tell...
This is all I had - green for given, red for calculated.
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NorthCascades wrote: »Glad I tagged Heybales!
Wealth of good knowledge.
My RER results were from a sports science lab as part fo the procedure for a VO2 max and max HR test - in my case a stationary bike ramp test to failure using the ASCM protocol.
Ok, I do have some data from this exercise testing, but it's all over the place and partially wrong. Oh well...
Can you help me understand this? (yes, I know this goes offtopic)
Max power: 160 Watt, 149 % predicted
VO2max: 28.6 ml/min /kg, 114 % predicted
RER 1.13
anaerobic threshold: 80W
max HR: 191 /min , 110 % of predicted
Breathing reserve 23 %
The test was interrupted at 160 Watt. I could have gone on if I wasn't asked the whole time to take a deep inhale, take my hand off the bar for a blood test or do lots of other things which disrupted my cycling and especially breathing. My guess is that I wasn't even scratching a HR of 175 during this test, while I estimate my HRmax at 209 based on many years of running data. I can certainly still run at 191. Well, at the moment as I've not run in a while and my HR just shoots up a lot more. My 'i can still talk' and running with a 3/3 breathing rhythm hr is just below 178, which I guess to be at roughly 85% HRmax
How I interpret this data: RER above 1 just means pure carbs I guess, probably measured at highest performance? Though no idea how you can get above 1 if you're looking at the ratio between two end members. VO2max... looks kind of ok when compared to running cooper tests, which I know are not all out for reasons (I get sick when I run all out). The anaerobic threshold seems very low, as in 80W is comfortable, brisk cycling I would say. So that's really the interesting thing for me here. But I guess they didn't actually somehow measure it but calculated it using 50% of maximum effort (which wasn't my max effort)
edit: KITTEN! That's one messed up test! I just threw my data into a road bike calculator and found that 80 watts on my race bike corresponds to about 22kmh, and even less on my everyday bike. That's comfortable city cycling for me and probably for most people around here.
I read the entire thread and may have missed it but I don't think so? How are these wattage numbers measured?
Ergometer. I’d think a wall is a watt, regardless of it being a stationary bike or a roadbike. Ok, with raph has a roadbike rolll and wind resistance play a role, and weight possible more than on an ergometer. So how comparable is it?
Btw, the graph has not watts but datapoint at the bottom. Had some excel problems yesterday. What do you think is wrong?
Your thinking is spot on. I was asking because the numbers aren't typical, so I was wondering if you had it measured like with an erg which is going to give you data that you can trust, or with something like a Stryd. If I was something like that I'd say take it all with a grain of salt. An ergometer's job is to answer your questions, or at least point you in a fruitful direction, it's not to raise another question of whether you can believe it. 🙂. You were on the right track before I showed up and started playing 20 questions.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Glad I tagged Heybales!
Wealth of good knowledge.
My RER results were from a sports science lab as part fo the procedure for a VO2 max and max HR test - in my case a stationary bike ramp test to failure using the ASCM protocol.
Ok, I do have some data from this exercise testing, but it's all over the place and partially wrong. Oh well...
Can you help me understand this? (yes, I know this goes offtopic)
Max power: 160 Watt, 149 % predicted
VO2max: 28.6 ml/min /kg, 114 % predicted
RER 1.13
anaerobic threshold: 80W
max HR: 191 /min , 110 % of predicted
Breathing reserve 23 %
The test was interrupted at 160 Watt. I could have gone on if I wasn't asked the whole time to take a deep inhale, take my hand off the bar for a blood test or do lots of other things which disrupted my cycling and especially breathing. My guess is that I wasn't even scratching a HR of 175 during this test, while I estimate my HRmax at 209 based on many years of running data. I can certainly still run at 191. Well, at the moment as I've not run in a while and my HR just shoots up a lot more. My 'i can still talk' and running with a 3/3 breathing rhythm hr is just below 178, which I guess to be at roughly 85% HRmax
How I interpret this data: RER above 1 just means pure carbs I guess, probably measured at highest performance? Though no idea how you can get above 1 if you're looking at the ratio between two end members. VO2max... looks kind of ok when compared to running cooper tests, which I know are not all out for reasons (I get sick when I run all out). The anaerobic threshold seems very low, as in 80W is comfortable, brisk cycling I would say. So that's really the interesting thing for me here. But I guess they didn't actually somehow measure it but calculated it using 50% of maximum effort (which wasn't my max effort)
edit: KITTEN! That's one messed up test! I just threw my data into a road bike calculator and found that 80 watts on my race bike corresponds to about 22kmh, and even less on my everyday bike. That's comfortable city cycling for me and probably for most people around here.
I read the entire thread and may have missed it but I don't think so? How are these wattage numbers measured?
Ergometer. I’d think a wall is a watt, regardless of it being a stationary bike or a roadbike. Ok, with raph has a roadbike rolll and wind resistance play a role, and weight possible more than on an ergometer. So how comparable is it?
Btw, the graph has not watts but datapoint at the bottom. Had some excel problems yesterday. What do you think is wrong?
Your thinking is spot on. I was asking because the numbers aren't typical, so I was wondering if you had it measured like with an erg which is going to give you data that you can trust, or with something like a Stryd. If I was something like that I'd say take it all with a grain of salt. An ergometer's job is to answer your questions, or at least point you in a fruitful direction, it's not to raise another question of whether you can believe it. 🙂. You were on the right track before I showed up and started playing 20 questions.
Oh I see. There's something odd in my data, and likely odd in the interpretation. But I can't quite put my fingers on it. The annoyance is that I'm looking for some actual, normal people real-world data but only find athletes, or people with heart failure or COPT, or children, or athletic children I can't even find out how CO2max develops in normal non-athletes who exercise regularly. 0 -
Has anyone depleted their glycogen totally? It's an interesting experience.
I hit the wall once during a ultra distance inline skating event in Holland of 130km paced by bicycles at 20 km/hr where motorcycles blocked oncoming traffic so the pack could skate continuously. You had to stay with the pack or get into the trailing first aid van. About 10 km from from the finish I suddenly got totally confused and struggled to coordinate skating movements. One of the cyclists from the organization saw me floundering at the back of the pack and handed me a satchet of jam, like the ones you get with hotel breakfasts and told me to bite off the corner and suck on it. In my haze I obeyed and within a few seconds my brain fog suddenly cleared and I could finish the event.
It was a reminder that while your muscles can run on fat, your brain can only run on glycogen.5 -
Yes, been there, done that. It's amazing what happens. I was literally sitting on the ground some 3km from home and had no idea where I was nor what to do. Finally I somehow found my brains back and called a taxi.2
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Here's my graph of a test that also had 10 sec data points, I've had some that are 30-60 sec so not the same usefulness.
I was given time, speed & grade%, HR, VE & V02 & VCO2 in L/min.
I used the normal formulas to get data past that to make it more meaningful for me.
I calculated the RER (CO2/O2), calories/L O2 & calories/min for carbs, then fat, then % of each.
I graphed the HR, and % of carbs and fat being used.
This was 3 days after a half-ironman tri, so I was not able to reach my HRmax I'd hit before @ 194. But desire was peak LT/AT point anyway used for HR zone training, not HRmax (doesn't change much or for years anyway) or VO2max (which can change pretty quick). And wanted better calorie burn formula to eat enough.
My biking HRmax was the same, and a 30 min LT test gave the same 176 though I hid that until the end - no need influencing my level of effort. So I was one that matched between running/biking, probably because I started running first.
Lower part of graph is green triangle %fat usage and red square %carb usage, upper part is heart rate.
The RER change to going above 1.0 occurred at 176 in the data, and you can see the % points moving quicker away right then.
My crossover 50% was 135-138 HR also shown there.
You can see that if I took a subset of data after maybe 1 min warmup and left off the deflection above LT, I'd have a better trend line closer to HR stats for the % fuel source. (and for anyone thinking fat adapted is a thing, please notice the 95-98% fat usage at start walking around 2mph)
Just giving an idea of another way to view data that might be easier to read.
Right, heybales, I have to say it: Why does your data look so *kitten* neat! Mine looks like *kitten* to be honest Which reminds me, I still need to edit out those points where they tested my max inhale capacity at load. Those points add a lot of ugliness to my data. So, having done some excelling I can say that I seem to be burning mostly 100% fat from a HR of 158bpm. Which is the slowest running I manage. Right. My crossover is.. well, it's a big crossover zone. So... if I understand it correctly RER 1 = VT2, right? That means the original interpretation is correct, and means... *bites tongue and whispers silently 'yikes'*
(still having problems with a vlookup table for some really odd reason, but the data is correct)
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Trying to recall if your lactic acid issue was over-production of it and perhaps normal clearing rate, or normal levels produced but inability to clear it at normal rate?
I'd have to remind myself the implications of other fuel sources on CO2 expelled. Not recalling.
I know it can be messed up by say hyperventilating, causing readings to appear to be saying something that isn't true.
And the formula's are based solely on carb or fat oxidation occurring, not lactic acid or ketones or amino acids, which frankly can't be used at higher levels of effort anyway for any meaningful quantity - so perhaps the others don't matter.
The jaggedness in my graph near the start was due to awkward breathes, I think when I attempted to start jogging and was told no this is walk only, we'll increase the grade massively. Yikes.
Maybe you had some moments like that with the extra stuff you were doing that threw off the breathing and rhythm and cycling cadence that just messed with your effort.
My test was also constant increases to intensity every 10 sec, speed and then grade, some tests are by levels like latter tests were, every 3 min a big jump in speed and grade. Or in your case perhaps watts turned up every so often.
If VT2 is where VCO2/VO2 is about equal and keeps going higher, then that was RER 1.
I just now noticed the time - this is not a normal fast-ramping protocol.
So on one hand your body has time to warm up and get a little better at this routine while doing it.
On the other it has time to get tired and lose it before true maxes are hit.
That's what I wondered about when starting out cold. After my first test I always took the stairs up and walked extra because I thought that made more sense before the test.
I know my personal HRmax test protocols were always fast-ramping - usually hit in 12 min or less. But I'd warmup first.1 -
I have no idea what the lactic acid is doing as they screwed up. Meh! It'll be back to the drawing board for me on that one. And yes, you're right with other energy sources. The first 6 minutes here were warm up, then 10w per 1m increase. Hmm.. the suddenness of increase to 100% carbs is quite striking actually. It's not like fat oxidation slowly gets less, but it's BAM! Good call on hyperventilation. Need to look into that as well. (just did. doesn't seem to be the case. PetCO2 and VeVCO2 profile at rest, 50% and peak is rather different)0
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You're going to crash it again - I can tell...
This is all I had - green for given, red for calculated.
Right, @heybales
I kind of feel there's still something off in my plots. Would you be able to help me? I was just thinking the % fat energy and % carb energy crossover point should be at 70/30, right? In the sense that fat contains roughly 9kcal compared to 4 in carbs. I'm also still looking for an equation for carb kcal/min and fat kcal/min
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Here are the formulas for the other columns in order, and some refer to the green ones, PEMDAS matters but Excel does it correctly. These came out of text books discussing indirect calorimetry. my use of cal is Kcal.
And yes cross-over is usually with calories not grams of fuel used. The % columns are calories already so 50/50% is cross-over.
I only did some because I thought they might be useful or interesting. I used for instance the carb cal/min to estimate how much refueling on long bike rides or races to do based on how many likely carbs used.
VO2 mL/kg/min = VO2 L/min * 1000 / test weight KG
RER = VCO2 L/min / VO2 L/min
Cal/L O2 = 3.8151 + 1.2318 * RER
Cal/min = Cal/L O2 * VO2 L/min
Carb% = IF(RER >= 1, 100, RER ^ 2 * -87.0843 + RER * 489.7265 - 302.6869)
Fat% = IF(Carb% < 0, 100, 100-Carb%)
Carb g/L O2 = ROUND(1.0287 * RER ^ 2 + 2.4444 * RER - 2.2422, 4)
Fat g/L O2 = ROUND(-0.4461 * RER ^ 2 - 0.932 * RER + 1.378, 4)
Carb Cal/min = Cal/min * Carb% / 100
Fat Cal/min = Cal/min * Fat% / 100
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Here are the formulas for the other columns in order, and some refer to the green ones, PEMDAS matters but Excel does it correctly. These came out of text books discussing indirect calorimetry. my use of cal is Kcal.
And yes cross-over is usually with calories not grams of fuel used. The % columns are calories already so 50/50% is cross-over.
I only did some because I thought they might be useful or interesting. I used for instance the carb cal/min to estimate how much refueling on long bike rides or races to do based on how many likely carbs used.
VO2 mL/kg/min = VO2 L/min * 1000 / test weight KG
RER = VCO2 L/min / VO2 L/min
Cal/L O2 = 3.8151 + 1.2318 * RER
Cal/min = Cal/L O2 * VO2 L/min
Carb% = IF(RER >= 1, 100, RER ^ 2 * -87.0843 + RER * 489.7265 - 302.6869)
Fat% = IF(Carb% < 0, 100, 100-Carb%)
Carb g/L O2 = ROUND(1.0287 * RER ^ 2 + 2.4444 * RER - 2.2422, 4)
Fat g/L O2 = ROUND(-0.4461 * RER ^ 2 - 0.932 * RER + 1.378, 4)
Carb Cal/min = Cal/min * Carb% / 100
Fat Cal/min = Cal/min * Fat% / 100
Thanks a lot I got most of them from online sources, but I'm sure this is very helpful for other data geeks as well
Well, lets just say I didn't for some of them use the equations, but I downloaded a table with raw data and used a vlookup on that table. But the results are the same.0 -
Right, now we're really getting in data nerdery territory here.
I had a look at what calorie expenditure means for average running and walking hr for me. Starting with 0.3*lbs*miles and 0.64*lbs*miles for walking and running respectively I am happy to report that my energy expenditure seems to be substantially higher for walking (146%), and still higher for running (133%). Hmm.. but of course I'm likely comparing apples and pears as this was a bike test and I'm talking walking and running... maybe.0 -
Right, now we're really getting in data nerdery territory here.
I had a look at what calorie expenditure means for average running and walking hr for me. Starting with 0.3*lbs*miles and 0.64*lbs*miles for walking and running respectively I am happy to report that my energy expenditure seems to be substantially higher for walking (146%), and still higher for running (133%). Hmm.. but of course I'm likely comparing apples and pears as this was a bike test and I'm talking walking and running... maybe.
If LT matched between the sports - then the usually straightish line function between 90 and there would match - so same HR would be about same calorie burn.
Most people it is not.
From the couple of studies I found (because it was always claimed biking HRmax is lower than running and mine was not) - if you started as runner and added in biking you have better chance of matching. Reverse not so much.
May also be reason for some of your test result max's.
You could do a 20-30 min field LT run test and see if it appears the same. But need treadmill or track and ability to pace it on up and have accurate HR readings.
But even if off a bit - that is interesting, I'll have to compare that net burn.
Since the start of the test for me had base burn sitting there, not hard to subtract that off.0 -
Oh *kitten*! You're right of course in that I don't know whether I'm looking at gross or net burn. If what I get out of the exercise test is gross (which it should be) then I of course need to convert to net. And then the numbers match much better, at 105 and 112% respectively for a lower hr estimate and not close to the going hard with that respective exercise hr level. That looks better.
I have a sneaking suspicion that my bike HRmax might be lower, but I don't have evidence for that as I don't do full out tests for health reason (beyond this data nerdery thread) anymore. I did do some bike HRmax attempts on spinning bikes in the past and got to 201 in the third of three intervals. But I never managed to last the whole three minutes Ever had a former professional race cyclist champion shout at you? That was my moment Anyway, I once managed to get to 205 speed walking against a storm with not so much gusts but constant wind of over 100km. My VO2 max estimates seem to line up, thus that's something. 0 -
@heybales can I ask you one last question? Maybe you know. I'm trying to find average values for RER for rest, vt1, vt2, peak load for non-athletes and people that aren't sick. This seems impossible to do.
I found a couple of studies with some numbers, but the study setup seems inconsistent, and hence the numbers are all over the place.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.4137/CCRPM.S449
* uses lactate threshold, and doesn't publish actual numbers
https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1980-00372019000100330
* non-athletes look very fit
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6478351/
* I don't think they actually went to max
Argh!
I'm trying to figure out how my VCO2 or VO2 numbers would look like if my RER under load was normal. Even using numbers from those studies I get super crazy results, but I need something that's more verifiable.0 -
I've never seen such things either.
I know my mom went up for heart stress test - and their plan was to test only to 60% estimated HRmax, 220-age, to try to come in under LT/AT level.
She got there and they were going to stop and she said no too easy, so they kept going, but they finally stopped her again because of concern they would cause something.
I don't think you'd find an ethical study actually pushing non-fit people to discover their true HRmax, or actually even their LT.
I've seen studies they go to 80% of an estimated HRmax, and the measurements told them how likely they were really at 80%. But they still didn't test them higher.
They got what they needed for whatever study they were running.
I'd think the RER values would be the same for all really, 0.7 at rest, 1 at LT/AT threshold, 0.85 at cross-over.
The HR increases will be faster for unfit of course.
I went back over my VE/VCO2 for VT since that is never a number I dealt with.
Avg 23.67, but really it dropped from around 28 to hang around 24-22 until end of test.
I never had researched VE L/min until after the test - and didn't research it much then either.
We did an after test VE max, and when I asked about it being so much higher than during my max part of test, he explained what I did know but hadn't really thought about - usually the choke point isn't the lungs or getting enough O2 (I knew from prior diving lessons the about 1/3 of O2 used in each breath estimate), but choke point was getting it to the muscles and making use of it.
Never used the VT points for training, always LT/AT, so never felt need to dig into them. Just not enough info on them, but when I get a chance I think I will now.0 -
No problem. Thanks a lot @heybales
I'm basically trying to normalize VCO2 and VO2 for normal RER ranges because there's something wrong in my data, and I'm trying to find the culprit. I see some indications with the rubbish data that I have (well, it's totally clear), but I need proper data, because I hate using rubbish data . Me, on the spectrum? *cough* 0 -
Now we come full circle back to glycogen. So apparently I have about (rounded) 450 calories of energy combined from carbs and fatty acids until I hit the wall, plus a bit of extra time from proteins, lactic acid, anaerobically, etc. This pretty much corresponds to 120 minutes walking and less on stiff walks or 60 minutes running (plus some more stumbling around in confusion) and fits totally with my own observations. Hmm...0
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edit: yes, I know RER =/ RQ, and an increase in VCO2 from buffering will be included in RER. Still, those 450 kcal for some reason fit my own observations.0
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That's nice when something with the numbers and math fits an observation and allows a light-bulb moment.
I think mine was after 1st test and doing math for calorie burn, discovering I was burning more than Garmin estimated, and looking back over a 2 month training period my measurements that seemed to say I'd lost LBM were very much likely true, and from where the measurements dropped and more glycogen/water stored for endurance cardio - meant hard fought winter muscle mass I was ticked to have lost.
Which made me very gun shy on certain deficit levels while doing very variable training, so having a decent HR based calorie burn formula was of great interest and used and worked.
I hope this helps with either training levels or refeeding strategies if you are desiring to do more, or just how to plan some training within the limits.
That seems so low, 450 cal.
Of course you have more fat calories available, we all do, and less intense effort should push the carbs our farther.0 -
It's a bit more than 450, as it includes warm-up, or in the case of hiking taking a bus or train to the starting point. But yeah, that's basically it. I ran 5km the evening before yesterday at my usual slow self. It was super relaxed and easy until my HR started to get past VT2 (I'm not super fit at the moment from being sick too often). I didn't bonk, but did that mildly the next morning when my breakfast was delayed due to a meeting. Felt not nice all day. I really should eat something after exercising.
I think I found in my data what I was looking for, in the chronotropic index, the relationship between HR increase and oxygen consumption increase. I get a value of 1.06, which is normal. But I've been exercising for 10 or more years and should see a number below 1. 15 years ago a normal maxHR would have been higher, as would the normal VO2max have been. I have some HR data from 15 years ago where I got way past my current HRmax without getting anywhere max effort. My VO2max would have been that of a normal unfit person and be lower than now. This would give an index of 1.7-1.9 - way above what is still normal for unfit people (1.3ish max). But yeah, it doesn't show anymore as I've somehow managed to train my heart muscle a tiny bit over the years towards what's normal - despite exercising like crazy.0 -
What happens when you drink a load of sports drink while riding?
Presumably that extends your limit by preserving your limited stores.
A 2:1 glucose/fructose mix in your bottle would maximise your uptake.0 -
What happens when you drink a load of sports drink while riding?
Presumably that extends your limit by preserving your limited stores.
A 2:1 glucose/fructose mix in your bottle would maximise your uptake.
Yes, it does. A few years back I trained for a half marathon. I figured I can run 10km max before bonking. Thus I ran 5km intervals with walking breaks in which I consumed lots of gel. Got me to 18km, and then I got sick for several weeks for some reason and couldn’t partake in the race. I need to walk in order to consume anythIng due to reflux issues. But this is how I e.g. cycle or hike all day.1 -
Ugh, I'm still not fit again after eating too little carbs over a few days and going on a measly 5km run. Went on a cycle trip today. Just comfortable speed cycling around a town (around 80 watts I guess) on my everyday bike. And my legs feel like they're made of gum. Totally weak, heavy, useless. Only my legs, mind. No problem with breathing heavily or anything else. oh well, I'll get better again.4
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Interesting new observation: There seems to be a correlation of sorts between carb intake and vt2 when running. I noticed before that I have days where my heartrate doesn't go up as quickly as I'm used to, but also where I go above my vt2 at a much lower level. After some observations I'm fairly confident that this somehow happens when I had a dinner with less carbs. Hmmm...0
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mariomicro wrote: »@yirara I just wanted to add: search Dr. Benjamin Bikman's videos on Youtube. He's done a lot of research on the insulin to glucagon ratio, which, indirectly, deals with glycogen stores and will do a better job than I do at explaining the topic. Don't be put off by the fact he's often a guest of pro-keto channels, because what he deals with is of more general interest.
Thanks a lot, I'll have a look. I assume it's not a Doctor Fung kind of person but an actual scientist?
On that note: I have data! Lots of data! (meh, all in an image table!) Will be difficult to pull something useful out, but I go digging tonight. And I still have a couple of papers to read on glycogen stores.
Is Dr Fung an actual person or is this an Asian Hate slur?!
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mariomicro wrote: »@yirara I just wanted to add: search Dr. Benjamin Bikman's videos on Youtube. He's done a lot of research on the insulin to glucagon ratio, which, indirectly, deals with glycogen stores and will do a better job than I do at explaining the topic. Don't be put off by the fact he's often a guest of pro-keto channels, because what he deals with is of more general interest.
Thanks a lot, I'll have a look. I assume it's not a Doctor Fung kind of person but an actual scientist?
On that note: I have data! Lots of data! (meh, all in an image table!) Will be difficult to pull something useful out, but I go digging tonight. And I still have a couple of papers to read on glycogen stores.
Is Dr Fung an actual person or is this an Asian Hate slur?!
Excuse me? A quick google would have told you everything you need to know.0 -
mariomicro wrote: »@yirara I just wanted to add: search Dr. Benjamin Bikman's videos on Youtube. He's done a lot of research on the insulin to glucagon ratio, which, indirectly, deals with glycogen stores and will do a better job than I do at explaining the topic. Don't be put off by the fact he's often a guest of pro-keto channels, because what he deals with is of more general interest.
Thanks a lot, I'll have a look. I assume it's not a Doctor Fung kind of person but an actual scientist?
On that note: I have data! Lots of data! (meh, all in an image table!) Will be difficult to pull something useful out, but I go digging tonight. And I still have a couple of papers to read on glycogen stores.
Is Dr Fung an actual person or is this an Asian Hate slur?!
Excuse me? A quick google would have told you everything you need to know.
I did google and Dr Fung gave no results, hence my question. 🤷🏻♀️0 -
mariomicro wrote: »@yirara I just wanted to add: search Dr. Benjamin Bikman's videos on Youtube. He's done a lot of research on the insulin to glucagon ratio, which, indirectly, deals with glycogen stores and will do a better job than I do at explaining the topic. Don't be put off by the fact he's often a guest of pro-keto channels, because what he deals with is of more general interest.
Thanks a lot, I'll have a look. I assume it's not a Doctor Fung kind of person but an actual scientist?
On that note: I have data! Lots of data! (meh, all in an image table!) Will be difficult to pull something useful out, but I go digging tonight. And I still have a couple of papers to read on glycogen stores.
Is Dr Fung an actual person or is this an Asian Hate slur?!
Excuse me? A quick google would have told you everything you need to know.
I did google and Dr Fung gave no results, hence my question. 🤷🏻♀️
Cool! You found a woo-proof browser! Dr. Jason Fung, makes millions with peddling odd theories on weight loss and especially diabetes.2
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