So Is Jason Fung right...or wrong...is insulin even a factor in losing weight...and other issues.
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bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.16 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..0 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
BMR is the amount of calories your body burns if you stayed in bed all day and did absolutely nothing. Basically just your organs running at minimum effort. The amount of calories your body burns when just having a life comes on top of that. Thus your bmr might be just above 1200, you're still moving, working likely, having a home to run, eat, clean yourself, etc.11 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
You have all kinds of misconceptions.
IF doesn't cause more weight loss on the same calories.
One shouldn't take a calorie deficit off BMR.
BMR is your basic calories just to stay alive while doing nothing, so that's another misstatement.
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bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
Your deficit isn't taken from BMR...your deficit is taken from TDEE. BMR is the calories you burn merely existing on this planet and nothing else. My BMR is around 1800 calories...my TDEE is around 3000 calories...I lose about 1-1.5 Lb per week eating anywhere from 2300-2500 calories per day...far more than my BMR.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
You have all kinds of misconceptions.
IF doesn't cause more weight loss on the same calories.
One shouldn't take a calorie deficit off BMR.
BMR is your basic calories just to stay alive while doing nothing, so that's another misstatement.
I dont exercise, the most activity I do is cleaning. I have some hormone issue. My acth is low as well as my thyroid but they won't treat it. I have gained 40lbs in the last year on 1200 calories. I was on birth control for 2 months and lost 30lbs eating the exact same, had to stop the birth control and gained it all back and kept gaining without changing anything until I started IF.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
Your deficit isn't taken from BMR...your deficit is taken from TDEE. BMR is the calories you burn merely existing on this planet and nothing else. My BMR is around 1800 calories...my TDEE is around 3000 calories...I lose about 1-1.5 Lb per week eating anywhere from 2300-2500 calories per day...far more than my BMR.
What would my tdee be? I'm 4'10" 151lbs and am not active1 -
Depending on age, 1500-1600 per a calculator I've found accurate (tdeecalculator.net). Medications will certainly muddy those waters but the statement that your deficit comes from your TDEE not your BMR is still accurate.3
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Depending on age, 1500-1600 per a calculator I've found accurate (tdeecalculator.net). Medications will certainly muddy those waters but the statement that your deficit comes from your TDEE not your BMR is still accurate.
I'm 32, if I ate 1500 calories a day I would gain even more weight.0 -
@lemurcat2 I'm honestly not even sure why you are quoting me and dissecting my response.
I think it's pretty clear from the context of the conversation -- you seemed to think that people disagreeing with one of your posts supported a claim you made about MFP in general not caring about anything but calories, so I offered some thoughts about why I thought people had likely disagreed.
Then you responded, so I responded to your response and thought we were having a conversation. You ask whether I want you to respond? I don't care, I enjoy having conversations and understanding what people think, but if it annoys you to discuss this with me, you can certainly not continue.
I will say again, people pointing out that Fung's claims about insulin and weight loss (and that one can't lose weight without eating a low insulin diet in particular) are bogus does (of course!) not mean that they think calories are all that matter for anything.10 -
As with all the best woo, there’s a grain of truth at the bottom of what Fung has to say, which makes the massive load of bs on top go down easier.
The truth is that it’s easier to not be hungry when your insulin levels aren’t flopping around like a dying fish and your blood glucose is relatively stable. For metabolically healthy people, that’s not usually a problem whatever they eat. However, most obese people are not metabolically healthy, they have some level of insulin resistence. 1 in 8 Americans are full-fledged type 2 diabetics, who definitely DO need to watch their carbs!
If you have insulin resistance then not pigging out on carbs can definitely make dieting a little simpler. Even if you don’t have insulin resistance it’s easier to get proper nutrition while eating at a caloric deficit when you avoid nutrient-poor carbs such as white bread and sweets. But there’s no need to turn it into a religion.
I’m a diabetic and I control my blood sugar well without fasting or keto, by simply eating a MODERATE amount of carbs and eating in time with my exercise needs.12 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
Your deficit isn't taken from BMR...your deficit is taken from TDEE. BMR is the calories you burn merely existing on this planet and nothing else. My BMR is around 1800 calories...my TDEE is around 3000 calories...I lose about 1-1.5 Lb per week eating anywhere from 2300-2500 calories per day...far more than my BMR.
What would my tdee be? I'm 4'10" 151lbs and am not active
Looks like probably around 1500-1600 calories if you're pretty much sedentary. If you have hormonal issues, you may benefit from IF by keeping glucose levels down possibly...but as has been said by multiple people, the problem with Fung's work is that he either thinks everyone is sick or diseased or even if they aren't, they should be eating a certain way anyway. He markets to the masses, not just to those who have issues and for the masses without issues, his stuff is quakery. There is no reason an otherwise healthy person needs to suppress the body's normal and natural insulin response by lowering glucose levels with IF.
And yes...if you're not active at all, it makes weight loss pretty dang hard. Keep in mind that regular exercise also has a profound impact on hormone regulation in the body...is there a reason you don't exercise? 8+ years ago when I started I had pre-diabetic blood glucose levels...I started exercising regularly, and that pretty much put an end to that issue in short order.9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
Your deficit isn't taken from BMR...your deficit is taken from TDEE. BMR is the calories you burn merely existing on this planet and nothing else. My BMR is around 1800 calories...my TDEE is around 3000 calories...I lose about 1-1.5 Lb per week eating anywhere from 2300-2500 calories per day...far more than my BMR.
What would my tdee be? I'm 4'10" 151lbs and am not active
Looks like probably around 1500-1600 calories if you're pretty much sedentary. If you have hormonal issues, you may benefit from IF by keeping glucose levels down possibly...but as has been said by multiple people, the problem with Fung's work is that he either thinks everyone is sick or diseased or even if they aren't, they should be eating a certain way anyway. He markets to the masses, not just to those who have issues and for the masses without issues, his stuff is quakery. There is no reason an otherwise healthy person needs to suppress the body's normal and natural insulin response by lowering glucose levels with IF.
And yes...if you're not active at all, it makes weight loss pretty dang hard. Keep in mind that regular exercise also has a profound impact on hormone regulation in the body...is there a reason you don't exercise? 8+ years ago when I started I had pre-diabetic blood glucose levels...I started exercising regularly, and that pretty much put an end to that issue in short order.
Honestly im lazy, I'm going to be getting a treadmill soon so that will help or when it finally warms up outside.1 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
Your deficit isn't determined by your BMR . . someone with a BMR of 1,280 could be using more calories per day depending on their lifestyle. And they wouldn't gain weight on 1,200 calories, so we're back to measuring appropriately . . .2 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »Depending on age, 1500-1600 per a calculator I've found accurate (tdeecalculator.net). Medications will certainly muddy those waters but the statement that your deficit comes from your TDEE not your BMR is still accurate.
I'm 32, if I ate 1500 calories a day I would gain even more weight.
Your diary isn't public so we have no way to assess how accurate your tracking is. I spun my wheels for like a year thinking I was doing all the right things when in actuality I was only really logging well 4.5 days/week and taking my HRM as gospel.5 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »Depending on age, 1500-1600 per a calculator I've found accurate (tdeecalculator.net). Medications will certainly muddy those waters but the statement that your deficit comes from your TDEE not your BMR is still accurate.
I'm 32, if I ate 1500 calories a day I would gain even more weight.
I still think their has to be something amiss in your logging. My wife is 46 and 5'1" and loses weight eating around 1800 calories per day...granted, she's active, but even if she wasn't particularly active, if she was really eating 1200 calories per day, the weight would be flying off.4 -
@lemurcat2 I'm honestly not even sure why you are quoting me and dissecting my response.
I think it's pretty clear from the context of the conversation -- you seemed to think that people disagreeing with one of your posts supported a claim you made about MFP in general not caring about anything but calories, so I offered some thoughts about why I thought people had likely disagreed.
Then you responded, so I responded to your response and thought we were having a conversation. You ask whether I want you to respond? I don't care, I enjoy having conversations and understanding what people think, but if it annoys you to discuss this with me, you can certainly not continue.
I will say again, people pointing out that Fung's claims about insulin and weight loss (and that one can't lose weight without eating a low insulin diet in particular) are bogus does (of course!) not mean that they think calories are all that matter for anything.
I think we basically agree anyway. I said in my first post that I think there is some nuance with regards to the influence of hormones, metabolism etc. - but I don't know that it is enough to make a huge difference and that "any calorie deficit diet will result in weight loss." I think that maybe sometimes I find the responses that it is all CICO a bit reductive - but again - maybe that is just the way I am reading it.
Probably just my problem.
I am not really familiar with Fung, my response was basically that I do think that various hormones (in general) do have an impact on weight loss, but in hindsight my response probably wasn't super helpful to the OP anyway with regards to the specifics of the question. You know, sometimes you read something and your mind goes to your own experiences and in hindsight they are only vaguely connected what the person is asking. I think I will think a bit more to what I can actually add to the conversation in future.6 -
bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
You are overstating and over-believing in the impact of IF. And just for clarity, I have been doing IF for 21 months and intend to do it forever. I'd have to be the last person on MFP who anyone would say is anti-IF or an IF skeptic, as I truly believe that it has many benefits, and not in an academic "this is what I heard on the Internet" way as some do here, but in real, lived experience, for a fairly long time, after a lifetime of binging and obesity which IF has finally helped me get under control like nothing else ever has.
But that all said, one does not go from gaining weight to losing substantial weight with the only changing variable being the eating schedule. IF does not have that kind of direct impact on fat loss. If you were gaining weight but are now losing weight, it is because your calories consumed have decreased. If IF helped you do that, then you can join my little club of people whose life was transformed by leaning on IF to get control over caloric intake, but IF itself is a tool, not a source of the actual weight loss, which comes solely through calorie restriction. I have over 600 days on my spreadsheet of logging every single calorie in and out and getting on a scale, and I am here to tell you that if there's any direct weight loss component of IF, it is very negligible. It might account for 2 or 3 lbs of my 90 lbs lost that can't otherwise be explained by a straight up CICO calculation, and even that marginal difference could just be rounding errors and such in my various formulae.13 -
So what kind of weight did you lose? Water, fat, muscle? There's also the addressing of electrolytes (sodium, potassium, etc.) approach of exercise etc.bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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bbeyer1792 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »bbeyer1792 wrote: »Dr Fung is a quack. You lose weight when you fast for 2 days... well no sh1t sherlock! Obviously eating less is going to cause weight loss. I once saw a video where he literally said calories dont matter. And he has so many brainwashed followers. I feel so sorry for them.
I had been counting calories already at 1200 and was still gaining weight, I started 14-10 IF at the same calories and I've lost 5 lbs
If you were gaining weight at 1200 calories you were either not using a food scale and or picking incorrect items from the database.
No it was correct, my bmr is 1280 so it's already not much of a deficit..
Your deficit isn't taken from BMR...your deficit is taken from TDEE. BMR is the calories you burn merely existing on this planet and nothing else. My BMR is around 1800 calories...my TDEE is around 3000 calories...I lose about 1-1.5 Lb per week eating anywhere from 2300-2500 calories per day...far more than my BMR.
What would my tdee be? I'm 4'10" 151lbs and am not active
Looks like probably around 1500-1600 calories if you're pretty much sedentary. If you have hormonal issues, you may benefit from IF by keeping glucose levels down possibly...but as has been said by multiple people, the problem with Fung's work is that he either thinks everyone is sick or diseased or even if they aren't, they should be eating a certain way anyway. He markets to the masses, not just to those who have issues and for the masses without issues, his stuff is quakery. There is no reason an otherwise healthy person needs to suppress the body's normal and natural insulin response by lowering glucose levels with IF.
And yes...if you're not active at all, it makes weight loss pretty dang hard. Keep in mind that regular exercise also has a profound impact on hormone regulation in the body...is there a reason you don't exercise? 8+ years ago when I started I had pre-diabetic blood glucose levels...I started exercising regularly, and that pretty much put an end to that issue in short order.
Honestly im lazy, I'm going to be getting a treadmill soon so that will help or when it finally warms up outside.
Your Future Self will thank you if you develop healthier habits around exercise now
There are plenty of ways to be active inside with zero equipment. If you need suggestions, do start a new thread on this.
What does "cold" mean to you? When I was in the military in upstate New York, we were issued all sorts of cold weather gear, and I learned that one can stay warm in very cold weather when dressed properly. I bundle up and walk all winter long. Unless there's snow. On day one I shovel, and then I snow shoe. I got my parka at a thrift shop for $10 and a friend picked up the snow shoes at a yard sale for $5.
Come see our exercising in the winter threads:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10808194/winter-months
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10811010/working-out-in-winter-climates/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10809157/what-s-your-plan-for-the-winter/p14
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