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  • paperpuddingpaperpudding Member Posts: 6,517 Member Member Posts: 6,517 Member
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.
  • YellowD0gsYellowD0gs Member Posts: 401 Member Member Posts: 401 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    You obviously don't live in a college town, and don't understand the value of a free beer. My point wasn't so much about changing someone's mind, as it was about about motivating people to get their shots ASAP. BTW, our State just went to come-one-come-all vaccinations, and appointments are hard to find.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 1,722 Member Member Posts: 1,722 Member
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    You obviously don't live in a college town, and don't understand the value of a free beer. My point wasn't so much about changing someone's mind, as it was about about motivating people to get their shots ASAP. BTW, our State just went to come-one-come-all vaccinations, and appointments are hard to find.

    As a matter of fact I've lived in a college town with 20k students at the state school, 2k at a private school, and another 5k at a JC for 40 years. Again, a $3 beer isn't going to motivate anyone to get a shot that is anti-vaxer or make them get it faster if they do want one but it's a PITA to get a time slot.

    The students around here are beer ponging in the front yards and parking lots. A 30 rack of Busch Light is $14, no shortage of beer and a free one isn't going to motivate someone to spend a bunch of time trying to get a slot.
    edited March 30
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 19,499 Member Member, Premium Posts: 19,499 Member
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.

    I'm curious what you mean by "Australia" in that last sentence: The government? The public? Both? Something else?

    In the US, it's unclear to me what would stop this. A company can do a promotion around almost anything, as long as it doesn't run afoul of anti-discrimination laws or the like. If they want to do a promotion around (say) wearing a pink ballcap into their shop, or showing a student ID from a school/college (student discounts are real), or pretty much anything like that, AFAIK it would be legal. In this case, you show your vaccination card - not very different. I think it would take new lawmaking to prevent it, and we can't even get legislative agreement on important stuff, let alone on stopping people from getting free donuts.

    Or are you saying that the public wouldn't stand for it? People here like free stuff.

    You, as the thread initiator, do get to say what's on topic, but to me, the public-health pushback here is simply a specific case of people in the US saying this promotion is inappropriate. That their reason applies to this promotion, not necessarily to any promotion related to a vaccination (or other public health) initiative, seems like a tactical detail. 🤷‍♀️ When you want something to stop, you use arguments likely to work in the particular case. "There shouldn't be promotions contingent on vaccination" is too abstract to be much of a selling point, even if that's the root. (It would also tend to bring on the anti-vax flag-waving, here, I suspect, even more than this already has.)
  • PsychgrrlPsychgrrl Member Posts: 3,095 Member Member Posts: 3,095 Member
    I’m kind of torn. At a selfish level I’m thinking “ohhh yeah” because I haven’t had a glazed doughnut in a year and I want one. But this discriminates against those who can’t have a vaccine (allergies / immuno compromised), and given that obesity seems to have a definite link to the seriousness of infection (not saying everyone with COVID is obese but obesity has been linked to the more serous form of the disease), is this kind of promotion a bad idea? But then we get into the nanny state debate and freedom of choice / personal responsibility.

    Regardless, I now want a glazed doughnut.

    It doesn’t, though. Their website says people without vaccination cards (for whatever reason) can come in on Mondays. And they do not encourage them to be eaten everyday, they just want to offer them every day (also on the website).

    I think it’s a nice idea to help promote the vaccines. Sure, it promotes the product as well, but I like the gesture.
  • paperpuddingpaperpudding Member Posts: 6,517 Member Member Posts: 6,517 Member
    It's amazing this wouldn't fly in Australia, it's completely unremarkable here. We see ourselves as consumers first, and hold on let me ask google what "citizens" means.

    I'm not sure what you mean by last sentence about asking google what citizens means - but amazingly though it may seem to you, this would not fly in Australia- the concept of health messages being muddied by commercial product promotion may be unremarkable in US, but I doubt it would be here.

  • paperpuddingpaperpudding Member Posts: 6,517 Member Member Posts: 6,517 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.

    I'm curious what you mean by "Australia" in that last sentence: The government? The public? Both? Something else?

    In the US, it's unclear to me what would stop this. A company can do a promotion around almost anything, as long as it doesn't run afoul of anti-discrimination laws or the like. If they want to do a promotion around (say) wearing a pink ballcap into their shop, or showing a student ID from a school/college (student discounts are real), or pretty much anything like that, AFAIK it would be legal. In this case, you show your vaccination card - not very different. I think it would take new lawmaking to prevent it, and we can't even get legislative agreement on important stuff, let alone on stopping people from getting free donuts.

    Or are you saying that the public wouldn't stand for it? People here like free stuff.

    You, as the thread initiator, do get to say what's on topic, but to me, the public-health pushback here is simply a specific case of people in the US saying this promotion is inappropriate. That their reason applies to this promotion, not necessarily to any promotion related to a vaccination (or other public health) initiative, seems like a tactical detail. 🤷‍♀️ When you want something to stop, you use arguments likely to work in the particular case. "There shouldn't be promotions contingent on vaccination" is too abstract to be much of a selling point, even if that's the root. (It would also tend to bring on the anti-vax flag-waving, here, I suspect, even more than this already has.)

    Not sure what you mean by a tactical detail - I dont have any tactics, just thought it was interesting discussion topic.

    Yes by 'Australia' I mean the Australian society or public - I dont think it would be an illegal promotion here but I think there would be backlash against a company using a health promotion to promote their commercial product -especially a product with no relevance to the health message ( ie donuts has no relevance to get your Covid vaccine)

    Now that could just be my subjective perception of what the Australian public would accept - but given there are no such promotions here and given I have worked in primrary health care for several decades - I think I am in fair position to assess that.

    Soft approach small scale promotions like providing treats for staff or like one we ran year or so ago about Bowel Cancer Screening in which we gave out FOBT kits and pamphlets and free apples to patients - these were on a table at reception and did have a sign saying apples donated by Woolworths
    so indirect advertising for WW's - but eating more fibre and fruit/veg is relevant to bowel cancer risk and it was small scale and at 'point of sale' - nobody objected.

  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 19,499 Member Member, Premium Posts: 19,499 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.

    I'm curious what you mean by "Australia" in that last sentence: The government? The public? Both? Something else?

    In the US, it's unclear to me what would stop this. A company can do a promotion around almost anything, as long as it doesn't run afoul of anti-discrimination laws or the like. If they want to do a promotion around (say) wearing a pink ballcap into their shop, or showing a student ID from a school/college (student discounts are real), or pretty much anything like that, AFAIK it would be legal. In this case, you show your vaccination card - not very different. I think it would take new lawmaking to prevent it, and we can't even get legislative agreement on important stuff, let alone on stopping people from getting free donuts.

    Or are you saying that the public wouldn't stand for it? People here like free stuff.

    You, as the thread initiator, do get to say what's on topic, but to me, the public-health pushback here is simply a specific case of people in the US saying this promotion is inappropriate. That their reason applies to this promotion, not necessarily to any promotion related to a vaccination (or other public health) initiative, seems like a tactical detail. 🤷‍♀️ When you want something to stop, you use arguments likely to work in the particular case. "There shouldn't be promotions contingent on vaccination" is too abstract to be much of a selling point, even if that's the root. (It would also tend to bring on the anti-vax flag-waving, here, I suspect, even more than this already has.)

    Not sure what you mean by a tactical detail - I dont have any tactics, just thought it was interesting discussion topic.

    Yes by 'Australia' I mean the Australian society or public - I dont think it would be an illegal promotion here but I think there would be backlash against a company using a health promotion to promote their commercial product -especially a product with no relevance to the health message ( ie donuts has no relevance to get your Covid vaccine)

    Now that could just be my subjective perception of what the Australian public would accept - but given there are no such promotions here and given I have worked in primrary health care for several decades - I think I am in fair position to assess that.

    Soft approach small scale promotions like providing treats for staff or like one we ran year or so ago about Bowel Cancer Screening in which we gave out FOBT kits and pamphlets and free apples to patients - these were on a table at reception and did have a sign saying apples donated by Woolworths
    so indirect advertising for WW's - but eating more fibre and fruit/veg is relevant to bowel cancer risk and it was small scale and at 'point of sale' - nobody objected.

    What I mean by "tactical" is that people saying "why would you offer people donuts that are calorie dense and nutrient poor as a vaccine reward" is an example of some of the US public not liking this promotion. I used the term "tactical" because people will have *specific* objections (like this example), probably not super-generic ones like "there should not be promotions based on getting your vaccine". Even if some people think the latter, it would garner little attention or publicity, so not be very effective pushback.
  • 33gail3333gail33 Member Posts: 580 Member Member Posts: 580 Member
    I am wondering what form you would anticipate this objection taking? Would you anticipate protests, or a boycott, or something else? I can’t imagine anyone here getting that worked up about a free donut to bother. We have a lot of health related promos and corporate tie ins here in Canada (that do annoy me), mostly for breast cancer and such. They put those little pink ribbons on everything - it’s like an industry in itself. Do you not have that in Australia? I haven’t seen anything about the vaccine here though.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,096 Member Member Posts: 7,096 Member
    I actually think it would be MUCH worse if they provided free donuts at the vaccination sites.

    With their current promotion, you have to take the initiative to drive to a Krispy Kreme store just to get a free donut. If they had trays of them at the site, it would basically be like shoving it directly into people's faces. Plus, then the people running the site would have to manage other retailers who might want to jump in on some free promotion. It could be perceived as that hospital or provider, or the government, endorsing certain companies.

    I have no problem with them doing the promotion in their own stores. People who will make the effort to go there for one free donut are not going to have an impact on the obesity crisis.

    All this.

    I also think it's smart, since the people who come will get something else most of the time (as YellowDogs said), and people who don't go get a free donut might still end up with a positive feeling about KK for encouraging vaccinations, so buy KK next time they get a donut.

    It's also generally positive they don't seem to think they will get a backlash.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,096 Member Member Posts: 7,096 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    The students around here are beer ponging in the front yards and parking lots. A 30 rack of Busch Light is $14, no shortage of beer and a free one isn't going to motivate someone to spend a bunch of time trying to get a slot.

    People like free stuff. One of the bars in the college town I went to law school in did a promotion where they'd give you a free beer (just one, you couldn't come in with 10 rejection letters) in exchange for a job rejection letter, and I recall that being popular even though beer wasn't exactly hard to come by. They posted the letters on the wall, and some were kind of funny.
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 23,743 Member Member Posts: 23,743 Member
    There probably ARE people who object for any variety of reasons. People will find anything to gripe about.

    Paperpudding at this point it seems like you are making a condescending "comment" about the American public.

    People are people. Some will object. Most have more important and bigger things to worry about.

    I'm an American and would not find this offensive if it was her intent, which I'm not sure that it was.
  • NorthCascadesNorthCascades Member Posts: 10,223 Member Member Posts: 10,223 Member
    It's amazing this wouldn't fly in Australia, it's completely unremarkable here. We see ourselves as consumers first, and hold on let me ask google what "citizens" means.

    I'm not sure what you mean by last sentence about asking google what citizens means - but amazingly though it may seem to you, this would not fly in Australia- the concept of health messages being muddied by commercial product promotion may be unremarkable in US, but I doubt it would be here.

    What health message is being muddied though?

    Covid vaccinations serve the public good. Krispy Kreme is using current chatter around vaccinations and offering their product as a way to 1) promote that public good and 2) get some headlines related to current vaccine publicity.

    Unless the argument is that having a donut somehow cancels out the efficacy of the vaccine, I'm not sure what could possibly be muddied here.

    Seems pretty obvious that the poster doesn't like the coupling of a healthy thing with an unhealthy thing even when they're not related. Mixed messages. Whether you agree or not it's clearly what's being said.
  • ThoinThoin Member Posts: 376 Member Member Posts: 376 Member
    Krispy Kreme has done promotions for everything so it's not like they are only doing one for COVID. The last I think was St. Patrick's Day. That's what they do. SO why not do one for COVID also? Everyone else is. When that sign says Hot you better believe if I'm driving by I will get my free donut. It in no way convinces me to get a shot though. I will get one but not for the free stuff out there.
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