Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

vaccinations/health care and product promotions.

paperpudding
paperpudding Posts: 9,281 Member
I hope this is allowed here after closing of last Covid vaccine thread.

Interesting to read there of Krispy kremes giving a voucher for free donuts to everyone getting the Covid vaccine (in US)

What do people think of this sort of freebie by companies?

here in Australia I dont think it would go down well - too obvious using of a cause to promote your product under guise of supporting the vaccine program and that sort of advertising linked to health care would be an uneasy match here.

however were KK to take 'soft approach' and donate trays of donuts for people to enjoy while waiting post vaccine or to the medical staff in appreciation - that would probably be accepted.

Indeed they did exactly that during last years lockdown and delivered tray of donuts to hospital and clinic staff rooms - 'in appreciation of your hard work in this difficult time'


note; this thread is not about merit or otherwise of the vaccine or whether people are going to have it.
«13456711

Replies

  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,496 Member
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    It's not just a free donut - it's a free donut EVERY DAY until the end of the year!

    I've never had a Krispy Kreme donut tbh - I don't think we have them here. Maybe they are just that good ... ?
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,416 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    It's not just a free donut - it's a free donut EVERY DAY until the end of the year!

    I've never had a Krispy Kreme donut tbh - I don't think we have them here. Maybe they are just that good ... ?

    They are sickeningly sweet. Even back in the day when I was eating a lot of sugar I thought they were too sweet. Except that one apple-stuffed thingy.

    Those are good.

    I wouldn't eat a free Krispy Kreme any more frequently than pay for one.


    "A" free glazed donut is very cheap advertising and it will probably mean a huge uptick in sales for them.
  • lokihen
    lokihen Posts: 382 Member
    There was one KK location in my state, but it closed years ago. I'm not driving to another state for a so-so donut.
  • SuzySunshine99
    SuzySunshine99 Posts: 2,989 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    It's not just a free donut - it's a free donut EVERY DAY until the end of the year!

    I've never had a Krispy Kreme donut tbh - I don't think we have them here. Maybe they are just that good ... ?

    They are not. Just puffy sugar.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,496 Member
    edited March 2021
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    It's not just a free donut - it's a free donut EVERY DAY until the end of the year!

    I've never had a Krispy Kreme donut tbh - I don't think we have them here. Maybe they are just that good ... ?

    Not missing anything by not having them in your area.. Fried grease and sugar.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,204 Member
    There's already public pushback from folks with health credentials, so I guess that's debate, too. One that got it started:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/03/27/krispy-kreme-donuts-ceo-responds-backlash-against-covid-vaccine-promotion/7031938002/

    FWIW, Leana Wen, an MD and former Baltimore public health official, seems to have kicked off the viral portion of the debate, on Twitter.
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    It's not just a free donut - it's a free donut EVERY DAY until the end of the year!

    I've never had a Krispy Kreme donut tbh - I don't think we have them here. Maybe they are just that good ... ?

    I'm not the best one to opine, because I don't even particularly like donuts. IME, they are unlike many other donuts, however. (I still don't like them.)

    They're very light, insubstantial really, super sweet as others have mentioned, very soft and airy, like eating a hyper-sweetened cloud with glazing on the outside. Supposedly, they're best hot off the line, and I don't believe I've had one that way, as far as I can remember. Pretty sure I still wouldn't care for them, because it's not my sort of thing, but they were quite a craze for a while.

    I feel like they over-reached themselves (you could buy them in boxes in chain grocery stores for a while at least), and burned out their "these are special" marketing potential too soon, that way. However, while I've had some MBA-level marketing education, I'm not a specialist, and I didn't see the sales data they based decisions on, so what do I know. 🤷‍♀️

    I don't think we even have one of their stores here anymore (mid-sized metro area) - used to. I'm for sure not driving 58 miles to the nearest one for a free sugar cloud; I'd just as soon go to my kitchen and eat white sugar by the spoonful, with a little oil on it, for similar effect. (I won't be doing that either.)
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    Well if the free donuts are "bad" they are also offering their employees paid time off to get their vaccine - so that is good anyway.

    We have Tim Horton's here - there would never be a need to drive for miles to get a free donut there - there is practically one on every corner! But I can't remember the last time I had a donut anyway, not really my thing.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,281 Member
    I actually think it would be MUCH worse if they provided free donuts at the vaccination sites.

    With their current promotion, you have to take the initiative to drive to a Krispy Kreme store just to get a free donut. If they had trays of them at the site, it would basically be like shoving it directly into people's faces. Plus, then the people running the site would have to manage other retailers who might want to jump in on some free promotion. It could be perceived as that hospital or provider, or the government, endorsing certain companies.

    I have no problem with them doing the promotion in their own stores. People who will make the effort to go there for one free donut are not going to have an impact on the obesity crisis.


    It wasnt actually suggested - it was me describing what would be acceptable from an advertising linked to health care point of view in Australia.
    so, sure, KK donuts on shared tray, probably not good from infection control point of view - but individually wrapped something - yes.
    Like the individually wrapped biscuits packets.
    We get them and individually wrapped drinks- water bottles, juice boxes - after donating blood here.

    We did (fact, not suggestion) get KK and a few other free things delivered to staff rooms of hospitals and clinics in lock down last year - for staff, not the public.
    I guess each work place was rung beforehand and asked if they would accept.



  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,281 Member
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.
  • YellowD0gs
    YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    You obviously don't live in a college town, and don't understand the value of a free beer. My point wasn't so much about changing someone's mind, as it was about about motivating people to get their shots ASAP. BTW, our State just went to come-one-come-all vaccinations, and appointments are hard to find.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,496 Member
    edited March 2021
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    Getting back to the OP's original question, Krispy Kreme giving away donuts is one thing, but if bars, pubs, and other drinking establishments said "Show your vax card, and the first one is on the house!"...I guarantee the line outside the health department waiting to get vaxxed would be quite a bit longer than it already is. And that's a good thing!

    In fact, I'm just fine with all the businesses, events, etc. that we've all been missing out on for the last year doing whatever they can to encourage the vaccine program! It still remains YOUR choice whether you partake or not.

    Totally disagree. A $3 or so drink, doughnut etc is not going to do one thing change anyone's mind about getting a vaccine.

    You obviously don't live in a college town, and don't understand the value of a free beer. My point wasn't so much about changing someone's mind, as it was about about motivating people to get their shots ASAP. BTW, our State just went to come-one-come-all vaccinations, and appointments are hard to find.

    As a matter of fact I've lived in a college town with 20k students at the state school, 2k at a private school, and another 5k at a JC for 40 years. Again, a $3 beer isn't going to motivate anyone to get a shot that is anti-vaxer or make them get it faster if they do want one but it's a PITA to get a time slot.

    The students around here are beer ponging in the front yards and parking lots. A 30 rack of Busch Light is $14, no shortage of beer and a free one isn't going to motivate someone to spend a bunch of time trying to get a slot.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,204 Member
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.

    I'm curious what you mean by "Australia" in that last sentence: The government? The public? Both? Something else?

    In the US, it's unclear to me what would stop this. A company can do a promotion around almost anything, as long as it doesn't run afoul of anti-discrimination laws or the like. If they want to do a promotion around (say) wearing a pink ballcap into their shop, or showing a student ID from a school/college (student discounts are real), or pretty much anything like that, AFAIK it would be legal. In this case, you show your vaccination card - not very different. I think it would take new lawmaking to prevent it, and we can't even get legislative agreement on important stuff, let alone on stopping people from getting free donuts.

    Or are you saying that the public wouldn't stand for it? People here like free stuff.

    You, as the thread initiator, do get to say what's on topic, but to me, the public-health pushback here is simply a specific case of people in the US saying this promotion is inappropriate. That their reason applies to this promotion, not necessarily to any promotion related to a vaccination (or other public health) initiative, seems like a tactical detail. 🤷‍♀️ When you want something to stop, you use arguments likely to work in the particular case. "There shouldn't be promotions contingent on vaccination" is too abstract to be much of a selling point, even if that's the root. (It would also tend to bring on the anti-vax flag-waving, here, I suspect, even more than this already has.)
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    I’m kind of torn. At a selfish level I’m thinking “ohhh yeah” because I haven’t had a glazed doughnut in a year and I want one. But this discriminates against those who can’t have a vaccine (allergies / immuno compromised), and given that obesity seems to have a definite link to the seriousness of infection (not saying everyone with COVID is obese but obesity has been linked to the more serous form of the disease), is this kind of promotion a bad idea? But then we get into the nanny state debate and freedom of choice / personal responsibility.

    Regardless, I now want a glazed doughnut.

    It doesn’t, though. Their website says people without vaccination cards (for whatever reason) can come in on Mondays. And they do not encourage them to be eaten everyday, they just want to offer them every day (also on the website).

    I think it’s a nice idea to help promote the vaccines. Sure, it promotes the product as well, but I like the gesture.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,281 Member
    It's amazing this wouldn't fly in Australia, it's completely unremarkable here. We see ourselves as consumers first, and hold on let me ask google what "citizens" means.

    I'm not sure what you mean by last sentence about asking google what citizens means - but amazingly though it may seem to you, this would not fly in Australia- the concept of health messages being muddied by commercial product promotion may be unremarkable in US, but I doubt it would be here.

  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,281 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.

    I'm curious what you mean by "Australia" in that last sentence: The government? The public? Both? Something else?

    In the US, it's unclear to me what would stop this. A company can do a promotion around almost anything, as long as it doesn't run afoul of anti-discrimination laws or the like. If they want to do a promotion around (say) wearing a pink ballcap into their shop, or showing a student ID from a school/college (student discounts are real), or pretty much anything like that, AFAIK it would be legal. In this case, you show your vaccination card - not very different. I think it would take new lawmaking to prevent it, and we can't even get legislative agreement on important stuff, let alone on stopping people from getting free donuts.

    Or are you saying that the public wouldn't stand for it? People here like free stuff.

    You, as the thread initiator, do get to say what's on topic, but to me, the public-health pushback here is simply a specific case of people in the US saying this promotion is inappropriate. That their reason applies to this promotion, not necessarily to any promotion related to a vaccination (or other public health) initiative, seems like a tactical detail. 🤷‍♀️ When you want something to stop, you use arguments likely to work in the particular case. "There shouldn't be promotions contingent on vaccination" is too abstract to be much of a selling point, even if that's the root. (It would also tend to bring on the anti-vax flag-waving, here, I suspect, even more than this already has.)

    Not sure what you mean by a tactical detail - I dont have any tactics, just thought it was interesting discussion topic.

    Yes by 'Australia' I mean the Australian society or public - I dont think it would be an illegal promotion here but I think there would be backlash against a company using a health promotion to promote their commercial product -especially a product with no relevance to the health message ( ie donuts has no relevance to get your Covid vaccine)

    Now that could just be my subjective perception of what the Australian public would accept - but given there are no such promotions here and given I have worked in primrary health care for several decades - I think I am in fair position to assess that.

    Soft approach small scale promotions like providing treats for staff or like one we ran year or so ago about Bowel Cancer Screening in which we gave out FOBT kits and pamphlets and free apples to patients - these were on a table at reception and did have a sign saying apples donated by Woolworths
    so indirect advertising for WW's - but eating more fibre and fruit/veg is relevant to bowel cancer risk and it was small scale and at 'point of sale' - nobody objected.

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,204 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    my debate question wasnt really about whether KK donuts are good from a weight management point of view - more about how much advertsing is allowed or acceptable to be linked to health care.

    I dont think Australia would be ok with any product advertising via a promotion like this.

    I'm curious what you mean by "Australia" in that last sentence: The government? The public? Both? Something else?

    In the US, it's unclear to me what would stop this. A company can do a promotion around almost anything, as long as it doesn't run afoul of anti-discrimination laws or the like. If they want to do a promotion around (say) wearing a pink ballcap into their shop, or showing a student ID from a school/college (student discounts are real), or pretty much anything like that, AFAIK it would be legal. In this case, you show your vaccination card - not very different. I think it would take new lawmaking to prevent it, and we can't even get legislative agreement on important stuff, let alone on stopping people from getting free donuts.

    Or are you saying that the public wouldn't stand for it? People here like free stuff.

    You, as the thread initiator, do get to say what's on topic, but to me, the public-health pushback here is simply a specific case of people in the US saying this promotion is inappropriate. That their reason applies to this promotion, not necessarily to any promotion related to a vaccination (or other public health) initiative, seems like a tactical detail. 🤷‍♀️ When you want something to stop, you use arguments likely to work in the particular case. "There shouldn't be promotions contingent on vaccination" is too abstract to be much of a selling point, even if that's the root. (It would also tend to bring on the anti-vax flag-waving, here, I suspect, even more than this already has.)

    Not sure what you mean by a tactical detail - I dont have any tactics, just thought it was interesting discussion topic.

    Yes by 'Australia' I mean the Australian society or public - I dont think it would be an illegal promotion here but I think there would be backlash against a company using a health promotion to promote their commercial product -especially a product with no relevance to the health message ( ie donuts has no relevance to get your Covid vaccine)

    Now that could just be my subjective perception of what the Australian public would accept - but given there are no such promotions here and given I have worked in primrary health care for several decades - I think I am in fair position to assess that.

    Soft approach small scale promotions like providing treats for staff or like one we ran year or so ago about Bowel Cancer Screening in which we gave out FOBT kits and pamphlets and free apples to patients - these were on a table at reception and did have a sign saying apples donated by Woolworths
    so indirect advertising for WW's - but eating more fibre and fruit/veg is relevant to bowel cancer risk and it was small scale and at 'point of sale' - nobody objected.

    What I mean by "tactical" is that people saying "why would you offer people donuts that are calorie dense and nutrient poor as a vaccine reward" is an example of some of the US public not liking this promotion. I used the term "tactical" because people will have *specific* objections (like this example), probably not super-generic ones like "there should not be promotions based on getting your vaccine". Even if some people think the latter, it would garner little attention or publicity, so not be very effective pushback.
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    I am wondering what form you would anticipate this objection taking? Would you anticipate protests, or a boycott, or something else? I can’t imagine anyone here getting that worked up about a free donut to bother. We have a lot of health related promos and corporate tie ins here in Canada (that do annoy me), mostly for breast cancer and such. They put those little pink ribbons on everything - it’s like an industry in itself. Do you not have that in Australia? I haven’t seen anything about the vaccine here though.