how much can sleep effect weight gain?
trulyhealy
Posts: 242 Member
i don’t really sleep prolly today o got 4-5 hours asleep and today i didn’t eat in a calorie surplus if anything just in a slight deficit maybe even maintenance
i’ve got a lot of water weight to lose rn bc recently i was eating bad and the weight gain increased so much to the point it can’t all be fat gain i’m talking 10lbs in a few weeks
but basically this week i the water weight hasn’t moved and i don’t know what to do. in the past it would go away a pound a day until i was back at my regular weight
i’ve got a lot of water weight to lose rn bc recently i was eating bad and the weight gain increased so much to the point it can’t all be fat gain i’m talking 10lbs in a few weeks
but basically this week i the water weight hasn’t moved and i don’t know what to do. in the past it would go away a pound a day until i was back at my regular weight
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Replies
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but then i’m also confused bc i’m not as bloated as i was a week ago and there’s more definition in my face so i’m so confused and yes the scale doesn’t matter but i have goals i want to reach0
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Even if you were getting a bunch of solid sleep every night, expecting to lose a pound a day isn't realistic.3
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janejellyroll wrote: »Even if you were getting a bunch of solid sleep every night, expecting to lose a pound a day isn't realistic.
it’s water weight and when i’ve gained a bunch of weight before it would go down a pound a day until i got back to my regular weight so i know from experience
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i’m struggling not to give up tbh i’m fed up1
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Could it be related to your menstrual cycle?
Don’t give up. Give yourself some mercy and take it easy on yourself. Sometimes things take time.1 -
Think about it this way: what will giving up achieve? You say you have goals to reach, isn't giving up going to guarantee you don't reach them?
We can hold water weight for a number of reasons: more salt than usual, hormonal cycle, muscle repair, stress... it's impossible to control water weight, just keep following your deficit and it will normalise.6 -
When I don't get enough sleep, it's much more likely that I will overeat because I'm tired, or because I'm cranky, or just because I can't think straight and it's harder to make sensible choices.
I wouldn't beat yourself up about it because sometimes life happens and poor sleep is unavoidable, but water weight fluctuates just as a part of life. If you are looking to lose weight, how your weight changes over a long stretch of time (a few weeks or a month) is going to be what to focus on to help you make decisions about what to do. In the meantime, think about what you could do to get better sleep on a regular basis.3 -
Do you have other goals?
How clothes fit, related to gym performance or anything like that?
That weight number is going to jump around all the time, forever. It might jump around lower numbers but it will never be static.
If your happiness is entirely tied up in it it's going to be a long road.
I take my measurements every month, an inch doesn't just re-appear on my thighs. My runs are faster and that feels great.
If you can find other measures of success the weight number doesn't have so much impact. It'll catch up eventually if you keep to the plan.0 -
trulyhealy wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Even if you were getting a bunch of solid sleep every night, expecting to lose a pound a day isn't realistic.
it’s water weight and when i’ve gained a bunch of weight before it would go down a pound a day until i got back to my regular weight so i know from experience
If you know your water weight comes off at a pound per day, then there are just two options: 1) That has changed and you can't expect to always lose a pound a day in water weight, 2) It's not 100% water weight.
Either way, it's not really worth stressing over. Even if it takes more than one day per pound, why not just stay on plan?3 -
My dad always says "If you are tired of starting over then stop giving up.". 🤷♀️ Maybe try to take a short mental break from thinking about it so much and give yourself some time to get back into a good headspace. It kind of sounds like you are getting into a binge-restrict cycle which is very taxing mentally.3
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Stress, either psychological or physical (or the two combined) is *one* of the things that can increase water retention, including the kind that sticks around longer. If you suspect your sleep may be a factor, can you change that, as an experiment: Get more sleep for a couple of weeks, see if it makes a difference?
It may not, but if you saw the gain without eating more or doing less (including less activity in daily life, not just less exercise), then the gain is water weight, and it will drop off when it's darn well good and ready.
For me, some types of water weight tend to drop fast, others tend to hang around, sometimes for extended time periods. It's completely irrelevant to fat loss, so as long as my clothes (or other non-scale measurements) aren't showing me I've gained, maybe even keep showing me I'm losing fat, I just plain don't worry about it. Right now, I'm in one of those phases: I restarted strength training, gained a couple of water pounds, and will hang onto those until I stop or take an extended break from that training. The slow fat loss I have going on in the background will take weeks to show up, with those extra couple of water pounds in the picture. I literally Do. Not. Care. I certainly wouldn't stop whatever good stuff I'm doing on account of it. But that's just me.2 -
Getting sufficient sleeps apparently helps ensure you make better choices regarding what to eat. I recently attended a seminar, run by a dietician, offered as part of a wellness programme at work. She stated that a study showed that people who were sleep deprived consumed, on average, 700 calories more, than they would eat normally. She also pointed out that you burn more whilst you're sleeping than you would from an hour of kickboxing. All very high level, so I don't have citations, but her point was that a good night's sleep is important.
From your posts, my suggestion would be to eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and get some sleep, then see what happens. I don't tend to think of eating 'good' or 'bad' - I just eat and ensure that what I fancy will fit my cals and the macros I care about - but the fact that you've stated you recently 'ate bad' implies that you're possibly diet fatigued. Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and use the time to work out a plan whereby you can eat things that you like, perhaps in moderation if they're calorific, and make them fit. I reduced portion sizes of more calorie dense foods like rice, potatoes and pasta whilst adding more salad and veg ingredients to my meals. That made space for an afternoon or evening piece of chocolate, biscuits, the occasional muffin etc. Think longer term - what are you going to do when you reach your goal weight? But first, give yourself a break then get back on track.3 -
Lack of sleep is a huge. It puts you in fight or flight and spikes cortisol. I am convinced some people are banging their head against a wall running on empty.9
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Nothing annoys and frustrates me more (ok that is hyperbole but it does annoy me) than when people say to just “make sure you get good sleep and reduce stress” to help with weight loss and health.
Insomnia sucks and knowing it is harming my health probably makes it worse.7 -
I'm sure sleep can directly affect weight in very small ways - but most of it would be indirect - affect on activity levels, food choices when stressed etc.
If you are logging you can track those things and control them.2 -
I think it plays a bigger role than most people think, on a macro level, not day-to-day.
I heard someone once say missing an hour of sleep to do an hour of exercise was like stepping over $100 to pick up a quarter. Sleep is really essential to a lot of body functions. Chronic sleep deprivation can lead to many negative health outcomes.
I struggle with sleep, I think I have an undiagnosed sleep phase disorder. Going to bed before 2 AM takes effort - medication (melatonin - but I also take it because I've had cluster headaches), avoiding screens, avoiding food after a certain time, etc - it takes a lot of willpower to make myself get in bed.
But it's paying off. I went from averaging 5-6 hours a night, to getting over 7 hours the past 4 nights. I hope I can keep it up and get that number over 8 hours. I am less tired, I haven't had any headaches, I've just felt better.7 -
I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.1
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I think it's pretty huge in weight loss.
If I am tired, two things happen:
1-) Your body is going to get energy from somewhere, be that food or sleep. All those 'late night snacking' urges are not USUALLY (for me) about boredom. It's because the sensory stimulation/act of eating keeps me awake (when I need to be awake) and also I am hungry. Because I've been awake and doing things for 20 hours instead of JUST GOING TO SLEEP.
2-) Lack of sleep/exhaustion absolutely kills impulse control for folks.
Hormonal stuff or whatever? I don't know.
But increasing your energy needs without recharging is going to make you hungry and not getting enough sleep does that, and we all know sleep deprivation impacts good decision making and impulse control from a billion studies.
So. Yeah. It's a thing.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Well yeah it's not like lack of sleep will make you gain weight directly. But lack of sleep does have a significant effect on hormones that influence hunger and satiety (ghrelin & leptin). So there is a definite correlation between sleep and weight gain/loss.
This is one of the factors in menopausal weight gain - women's sleep (quality and quantity) is often disrupted by hot flashes etc - which in turn disrupts their hunger/satiety hormones - which means they are basically fighting against cues from their bodies telling them to eat more.
(Since I always get a ton of disagrees about this - it is science not my opinion. The book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker is an interesting read that discusses the science of sleep deprivation.)7 -
paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]
Are we perhaps disagreeing over "direct effect" vs. "indirect effect"?
I think sleep has an effect on weight management, possibly a strong one (depending on the person and circumstances).
But I think it's an *indirect* effect. Poor sleep causes fatigue, which tends to reduce activity (move less). As you say, it can also impair satiation or cause cravings (so perhaps eat more), as well as impairing impulse control (ditto).
It's not a direct effect. Paperpudding said "I don't think it's a big *direct* factor." (emphasis mine). I don't think it's a direct factor, either. But I agree it can be a big one . . . indirectly.
Someone who's calorie counting (accurately, honestly) will see that calorie increase from higher intake. They'll know. They may not notice activity reduction via fatigue, but that can be relevant, too. Water weight increase via stress of under-sleep is also a potential, which isn't exactly impairing fat loss, but the scale-weight deceptiveness can make a person think it's affecting fat loss more than it actually is.
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ExistingFish wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]
Are we perhaps disagreeing over "direct effect" vs. "indirect effect"?
I think sleep has an effect on weight management, possibly a strong one (depending on the person and circumstances).
But I think it's an *indirect* effect. Poor sleep causes fatigue, which tends to reduce activity (move less). As you say, it can also impair satiation or cause cravings (so perhaps eat more), as well as impairing impulse control (ditto).
It's not a direct effect. Paperpudding said "I don't think it's a big *direct* factor." (emphasis mine). I don't think it's a direct factor, either. But I agree it can be a big one . . . indirectly.
Someone who's calorie counting (accurately, honestly) will see that calorie increase from higher intake. They'll know. They may not notice activity reduction via fatigue, but that can be relevant, too. Water weight increase via stress of under-sleep is also a potential, which isn't exactly impairing fat loss, but the scale-weight deceptiveness can make a person think it's affecting fat loss more than it actually is.
I honestly think you are splitting hairs here. It is a direct effect because it objectively affects the hormones that regulate appetite and satiety, and those will directly affect ones weight (I guess unless they are in the small portion of people who weigh and measure their food.) For most people, who are not strictly monitoring their caloric intake, they will eat more or less based on those hormone levels - which are DIRECTLY and objectively affected by how much sleep you get. It's not just "I'm tired so I'll eat more" - it is a biological process.
So yeah - lack of sleep doesn't directly affect weight loss by adding literal calories to your diet. If you want to get strictly technical that is accurate, but not particularly helpful imo.5 -
I'm on the side with 33gail33
Speaking of Matthew Walker, this is a great Joe Rogan episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig 3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]
Are we perhaps disagreeing over "direct effect" vs. "indirect effect"?
I think sleep has an effect on weight management, possibly a strong one (depending on the person and circumstances).
But I think it's an *indirect* effect. Poor sleep causes fatigue, which tends to reduce activity (move less). As you say, it can also impair satiation or cause cravings (so perhaps eat more), as well as impairing impulse control (ditto).
It's not a direct effect. Paperpudding said "I don't think it's a big *direct* factor." (emphasis mine). I don't think it's a direct factor, either. But I agree it can be a big one . . . indirectly.
Someone who's calorie counting (accurately, honestly) will see that calorie increase from higher intake. They'll know. They may not notice activity reduction via fatigue, but that can be relevant, too. Water weight increase via stress of under-sleep is also a potential, which isn't exactly impairing fat loss, but the scale-weight deceptiveness can make a person think it's affecting fat loss more than it actually is.
I honestly think you are splitting hairs here. It is a direct effect because it objectively affects the hormones that regulate appetite and satiety, and those will directly affect ones weight (I guess unless they are in the small portion of people who weigh and measure their food.) For most people, who are not strictly monitoring their caloric intake, they will eat more or less based on those hormone levels - which are DIRECTLY and objectively affected by how much sleep you get. It's not just "I'm tired so I'll eat more" - it is a biological process.
So yeah - lack of sleep doesn't directly affect weight loss by adding literal calories to your diet. If you want to get strictly technical that is accurate, but not particularly helpful imo.
Of course I'm splitting hairs. I'm also thinking that what is particular helpful (or not) depends on the context of the OP, not just the question in the thread title.
The OP is calorie counting. She believes she's eating at a deficit, at most maintenance, but believes she has gained water weight as a result of food choices. (She has been at this for a while, not new to MFP or calorie counting, i.e., she has posted in the past.) In this thread, she doesn't report feeling hungry (or even fatigued). She doesn't understand why she's not losing the weight (that she believes is water weight) as fast as she usually does. That's the context for the title question about how much sleep affects weight gain.1 -
ExistingFish wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]
Are we perhaps disagreeing over "direct effect" vs. "indirect effect"?
I think sleep has an effect on weight management, possibly a strong one (depending on the person and circumstances).
But I think it's an *indirect* effect. Poor sleep causes fatigue, which tends to reduce activity (move less). As you say, it can also impair satiation or cause cravings (so perhaps eat more), as well as impairing impulse control (ditto).
It's not a direct effect. Paperpudding said "I don't think it's a big *direct* factor." (emphasis mine). I don't think it's a direct factor, either. But I agree it can be a big one . . . indirectly.
Someone who's calorie counting (accurately, honestly) will see that calorie increase from higher intake. They'll know. They may not notice activity reduction via fatigue, but that can be relevant, too. Water weight increase via stress of under-sleep is also a potential, which isn't exactly impairing fat loss, but the scale-weight deceptiveness can make a person think it's affecting fat loss more than it actually is.
I honestly think you are splitting hairs here. It is a direct effect because it objectively affects the hormones that regulate appetite and satiety, and those will directly affect ones weight (I guess unless they are in the small portion of people who weigh and measure their food.) For most people, who are not strictly monitoring their caloric intake, they will eat more or less based on those hormone levels - which are DIRECTLY and objectively affected by how much sleep you get. It's not just "I'm tired so I'll eat more" - it is a biological process.
So yeah - lack of sleep doesn't directly affect weight loss by adding literal calories to your diet. If you want to get strictly technical that is accurate, but not particularly helpful imo.
Of course I'm splitting hairs. I'm also thinking that what is particular helpful (or not) depends on the context of the OP, not just the question in the thread title.
The OP is calorie counting. She believes she's eating at a deficit, at most maintenance, but believes she has gained water weight as a result of food choices. (She has been at this for a while, not new to MFP or calorie counting, i.e., she has posted in the past.) In this thread, she doesn't report feeling hungry (or even fatigued). She doesn't understand why she's not losing the weight (that she believes is water weight) as fast as she usually does. That's the context for the title question about how much sleep affects weight gain.
OK - well when I reply I assume that there are other people also reading who may not be participating, and this subject touches a nerve with me, and thus it is important to me to discuss the information I have.
The reason for that is because after being a healthy weight my entire life (with various fluctuations) I gained a lot of weight at menopause. I also developed terrible insomnia, after sleeping like a baby for my entire life before that. (I get that this doesn't apply to you because you have mentioned before that you had been obese your whole life.)
All the information that I had was that menopause doesn't affect weight, that women just stopped moving as much, and let their calories creep up. Basically that as women got older they just got lazy. That messaging was very harmful to me, and to my self esteem. I literally felt like I was being told that it was my fault that I got fat because I had (practically overnight) become a lazy glutton.
So when I came across this information, and connected the dots between my ongoing sleep struggles and the impact on these appetite and satiety hormone fluctuations it was very beneficial to me. Knowledge is power, and the knowledge of what was going on in my body empowered me.
No - it isn't going to technically help me lose weight - I still have to count my calories and move my body. But it was beneficial to how I felt about myself, and I don't know about you but when I feel bad about myself that makes committing to weight loss that much harder.
So for anyone feeling like I felt - hopefully this information is helpful to them as well.
6 -
ExistingFish wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]
Are we perhaps disagreeing over "direct effect" vs. "indirect effect"?
I think sleep has an effect on weight management, possibly a strong one (depending on the person and circumstances).
But I think it's an *indirect* effect. Poor sleep causes fatigue, which tends to reduce activity (move less). As you say, it can also impair satiation or cause cravings (so perhaps eat more), as well as impairing impulse control (ditto).
It's not a direct effect. Paperpudding said "I don't think it's a big *direct* factor." (emphasis mine). I don't think it's a direct factor, either. But I agree it can be a big one . . . indirectly.
Someone who's calorie counting (accurately, honestly) will see that calorie increase from higher intake. They'll know. They may not notice activity reduction via fatigue, but that can be relevant, too. Water weight increase via stress of under-sleep is also a potential, which isn't exactly impairing fat loss, but the scale-weight deceptiveness can make a person think it's affecting fat loss more than it actually is.
I honestly think you are splitting hairs here. It is a direct effect because it objectively affects the hormones that regulate appetite and satiety, and those will directly affect ones weight (I guess unless they are in the small portion of people who weigh and measure their food.) For most people, who are not strictly monitoring their caloric intake, they will eat more or less based on those hormone levels - which are DIRECTLY and objectively affected by how much sleep you get. It's not just "I'm tired so I'll eat more" - it is a biological process.
So yeah - lack of sleep doesn't directly affect weight loss by adding literal calories to your diet. If you want to get strictly technical that is accurate, but not particularly helpful imo.
Of course I'm splitting hairs. I'm also thinking that what is particular helpful (or not) depends on the context of the OP, not just the question in the thread title.
The OP is calorie counting. She believes she's eating at a deficit, at most maintenance, but believes she has gained water weight as a result of food choices. (She has been at this for a while, not new to MFP or calorie counting, i.e., she has posted in the past.) In this thread, she doesn't report feeling hungry (or even fatigued). She doesn't understand why she's not losing the weight (that she believes is water weight) as fast as she usually does. That's the context for the title question about how much sleep affects weight gain.
OK - well when I reply I assume that there are other people also reading who may not be participating, and this subject touches a nerve with me, and thus it is important to me to discuss the information I have.
The reason for that is because after being a healthy weight my entire life (with various fluctuations) I gained a lot of weight at menopause. I also developed terrible insomnia, after sleeping like a baby for my entire life before that. (I get that this doesn't apply to you because you have mentioned before that you had been obese your whole life.)
All the information that I had was that menopause doesn't affect weight, that women just stopped moving as much, and let their calories creep up. Basically that as women got older they just got lazy. That messaging was very harmful to me, and to my self esteem. I literally felt like I was being told that it was my fault that I got fat because I had (practically overnight) become a lazy glutton.
So when I came across this information, and connected the dots between my ongoing sleep struggles and the impact on these appetite and satiety hormone fluctuations it was very beneficial to me. Knowledge is power, and the knowledge of what was going on in my body empowered me.
No - it isn't going to technically help me lose weight - I still have to count my calories and move my body. But it was beneficial to how I felt about myself, and I don't know about you but when I feel bad about myself that makes committing to weight loss that much harder.
So for anyone feeling like I felt - hopefully this information is helpful to them as well.
Completely off topic here, but that's not correct. I was obese for around 30 years, which is less than half my life; it's the majority of my adult life. I was at a reasonably healthy weight in childhood, through to around age 30.
I can empathize with sleep problems. I started struggling with sleep interruption insomnia at the same time as menopause, but it's never been clear to me whether the cause of the insomnia was menopause, chemotherapy, or my sleep apnea finally becoming extreme - though treating the apnea didn't solve the insomnia problem.
I'm not deprecating the importance of good sleep: It's hugely important for lots of reasons. It's certainly relevant to the overall fat loss picture via fatigue and appetite/cravings, and also possibly (via things like stress so cortisol) to the OP's water weight question.2 -
ExistingFish wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I dont doubt that getting good sleep is important for overall health and well being - I just dont think it is a big direct factor in weight loss.
Actually it has a lot to do with it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/20/sleep-loss-weight-gain/7507503/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/molecular-ties-between-lack-sleep-weight-gain
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/sleep/Several studies show that sleep deprivation (i.e., regularly less than 7 hours of sleep a night) is a risk factor for obesity. A Nurses’ Health Study found an association between those who slept the least (5 hours or less a night) and having the highest BMI and greatest weight gain. [5] One reason may be a disruption in appetite hormones that regulate feelings of hunger (called ghrelin) versus satisfaction (called leptin). Ghrelin levels rise while leptin levels drop with lack of sleep; this can cause higher calories to be consumed due to experiencing strong hunger at the same time that one feels less satiated after eating. A preference for foods high in fat and carbohydrate has been observed. [6,7] The risk of hunger also increases simply by being awake longer, which prolongs the time from the last meal eaten to bedtime. [6] Insufficient sleep also can trigger the “reward” areas in your brain to crave high fat, high caloric foods. [8]
Are we perhaps disagreeing over "direct effect" vs. "indirect effect"?
I think sleep has an effect on weight management, possibly a strong one (depending on the person and circumstances).
But I think it's an *indirect* effect. Poor sleep causes fatigue, which tends to reduce activity (move less). As you say, it can also impair satiation or cause cravings (so perhaps eat more), as well as impairing impulse control (ditto).
It's not a direct effect. Paperpudding said "I don't think it's a big *direct* factor." (emphasis mine). I don't think it's a direct factor, either. But I agree it can be a big one . . . indirectly.
Someone who's calorie counting (accurately, honestly) will see that calorie increase from higher intake. They'll know. They may not notice activity reduction via fatigue, but that can be relevant, too. Water weight increase via stress of under-sleep is also a potential, which isn't exactly impairing fat loss, but the scale-weight deceptiveness can make a person think it's affecting fat loss more than it actually is.
I honestly think you are splitting hairs here. It is a direct effect because it objectively affects the hormones that regulate appetite and satiety, and those will directly affect ones weight (I guess unless they are in the small portion of people who weigh and measure their food.) For most people, who are not strictly monitoring their caloric intake, they will eat more or less based on those hormone levels - which are DIRECTLY and objectively affected by how much sleep you get. It's not just "I'm tired so I'll eat more" - it is a biological process.
So yeah - lack of sleep doesn't directly affect weight loss by adding literal calories to your diet. If you want to get strictly technical that is accurate, but not particularly helpful imo.
Of course I'm splitting hairs. I'm also thinking that what is particular helpful (or not) depends on the context of the OP, not just the question in the thread title.
The OP is calorie counting. She believes she's eating at a deficit, at most maintenance, but believes she has gained water weight as a result of food choices. (She has been at this for a while, not new to MFP or calorie counting, i.e., she has posted in the past.) In this thread, she doesn't report feeling hungry (or even fatigued). She doesn't understand why she's not losing the weight (that she believes is water weight) as fast as she usually does. That's the context for the title question about how much sleep affects weight gain.
OK - well when I reply I assume that there are other people also reading who may not be participating, and this subject touches a nerve with me, and thus it is important to me to discuss the information I have.
The reason for that is because after being a healthy weight my entire life (with various fluctuations) I gained a lot of weight at menopause. I also developed terrible insomnia, after sleeping like a baby for my entire life before that. (I get that this doesn't apply to you because you have mentioned before that you had been obese your whole life.)
All the information that I had was that menopause doesn't affect weight, that women just stopped moving as much, and let their calories creep up. Basically that as women got older they just got lazy. That messaging was very harmful to me, and to my self esteem. I literally felt like I was being told that it was my fault that I got fat because I had (practically overnight) become a lazy glutton.
So when I came across this information, and connected the dots between my ongoing sleep struggles and the impact on these appetite and satiety hormone fluctuations it was very beneficial to me. Knowledge is power, and the knowledge of what was going on in my body empowered me.
No - it isn't going to technically help me lose weight - I still have to count my calories and move my body. But it was beneficial to how I felt about myself, and I don't know about you but when I feel bad about myself that makes committing to weight loss that much harder.
So for anyone feeling like I felt - hopefully this information is helpful to them as well.
Completely off topic here, but that's not correct. I was obese for around 30 years, which is less than half my life; it's the majority of my adult life. I was at a reasonably healthy weight in childhood, through to around age 30.
I can empathize with sleep problems. I started struggling with sleep interruption insomnia at the same time as menopause, but it's never been clear to me whether the cause of the insomnia was menopause, chemotherapy, or my sleep apnea finally becoming extreme - though treating the apnea didn't solve the insomnia problem.
I'm not deprecating the importance of good sleep: It's hugely important for lots of reasons. It's certainly relevant to the overall fat loss picture via fatigue and appetite/cravings, and also possibly (via things like stress so cortisol) to the OP's water weight question.
Well to be fair I wasn't responding directly to the OP - I saw the thread but didn't start participating until other people started posting that sleep didn't have much effect on weight. So the topic did veer off from the OP's original water weight question, to sleep and weight loss in general, before I jumped in.
6 -
people seem to be misunderstanding my post - I am not disagreeing that sleep disruption can make you eat more - either through hormonal changes, lack or impulse control when tired, eating more because of boredom etc
But these are not direct affects - it is still CICO, not sleep issues , in itself, making you gain weight.
and if you are tracking you can see where you are eating more and control it.
OP seemed to be thinking she had gained weight even though in a calorie deficit because she didnt get enough sleep
(although, of course, as other posters have pointed out, one day tells you nothing so it is sort of all a moot point anyway)4
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