Our culture is set up for obesity.
Replies
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I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss. But, one has to acknowledge how crazily our culture is set up in making it an upstream swim much of the time.
A favorite topic of mine - thank you for bringing it up and yes, I WILL take the time to post even though I have none. So I will make.
Like you, I DO understand perfectly well that I need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my own weight and simply make choices within the constraints of the culture that is indeed SET UP for obesity. Or else.
Sometimes though I feel that the culture is not just "set up" for obesity but it is "conspiratorily" set up for obesity!! I wouldn't put it past the Powers that Be.
While I am making all the choices that I can possibly make, within the constraints of my personal situation, to fight the culture that is set up this way and to maintain a healthy weight, I really do believe that pointing at those cultural determinants and making people AWARE of them does not mean "whining, complaining, blaming others for your own shortcomings" and other "blame the victim" junk that Americans usually adore passing around.
It simply helps people fight back - not just with personal choices but politically too - at least this is what you would hope would happen eventually.
After reading tons of articles on obesity from Medicine, Sociology, Psychology and other cross-disciplinary fields - I could count a million ways in which the culture has become set up for obesity. Unfortunately, large portion sizes and a Mc at every corner is just the tip of the iceberg.
- The entire culture has engineered activity out of people's lives in the name of convenience and comfort (from something as simple as remote-control TV-s and buttons-everything to going everywhere by car or HAVING TO drive everywhere given time constraints, to no sidewalks and attractive public venues where people could go for strolls like Europeans do, etc). In order to move enough in this culture, you have to carve out special time during the day and turn it into an efficient task at the gym. This demand will compete with the million other demands that the average person has in this society - so good luck keeping it up and making "MOVING" the queen of all other priorities. Having grown up elsewhere, among people who were all thin despite nobody EVER exercising formally at a gym ...this part is all too clear.
- The Internet, Smart phones and other gadgetry is sucking spare-time out of our day like a sponge is sucking water.
- The TV is a classic.
- Women no longer cook, whether because they are "career women" or just SAHM-s who believe that it is more important to haul jrs. to 1 million organized activities during the day than stay at home to cut up onions. This is largely perceived as "non-sexy, backward, heck even oppressive". Never mind those who get the kids in the bus at 7:30 am so the rest of the day can be dedicated to volunteering at school, shopping, scrap-booking - anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
The bottom line is, career or not, American women on average, no longer cook; or they believe that slapping together some convenience foods qualifies as cooking. For the gender sensitive, if you ask why I only "blame" women for this and not men - I am not blaming anyone. I am simply pointing that half of the population that used to cook checked out of this task and it's not like the other half checked in, rightfully or wrongfully so. Cooking has been outsourced - genie is out of the bottle. It is simply the way it has worked out, gender justice or not.
- The crap the the food industry puts in all of these convenience foods, take-outs or even restaurant food is surreal - from the tons of sugar and corn syrup to 1 million things you can't pronounce, to hormones in milk that makes girls get their periods at 9 and fibroids the size of the New Year's Eve NY apple at 40 ...and balloon like crazy by the time they are 18... ending up with a hanging-type belly that is recognizably American...you get the idea.
- The incredibly fast-paced lives with one million demands and obligations pulling the average Joe in all directions: overload in work-demands, children's school demands, children's activities demands, housework demands, groceries shopping demands, commuting demands, technology that acts as the most insidious time-thief despite having proclaimed the very opposite - to save people time...as well as going crazy over sets of "choices", the list could go on. Some of these demands can be very small *(such as sorting through papers from school or signing papers to send back to school). But between the 1 million big demands (such as work projects), the 1 million medium demands, and the 1 million small demands...people deal with an endless "to do" list that is simply eating away at their quality of life, places them in a constant state of stress, anxiety and restlessness, reduced authentic companionship and leads, for many, to overeating as a way of coping with stress.
- The non-social manner in which Americans tend to eat: fast, efficiently, often at their desks, often alone, often at midnight snacking on "feel good" foods to accompany some action movie, without any conversation or human interaction that help slow down the pace of eating.
- And what to make of those families needing to work 2-3 miserable jobs just to get by in today's society? Or those who have only one job that requires increasing over-time and energy (both physical and mental) so they can compete with zealous co-workers?
- What of genetically modified everything, chickens as big as ostriches (how in the world do they get them like that I will never understand), etc.
The list could go on - and on - and on.
I have met many people who react negatively when they see fat people - as if these unfortunate souls are begging to be hated given their "poor, poor, despicable personal choices".
When I visit back in my country, I hear many people talking condescendingly about how fat Americans are.
Having lived here for over a decade and having become, at some point, decently fat myself, I feel nothing but compassion towards fat individuals because I know how one gets there and I also know they are largely victims of a culture designed to F them up.
Now this culture of obesity is spreading elsewhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ
.... though I don't think it will ever have the virulent effects it has had here given some local traditions and ways of life that still linger and hopefully will for a while.
Now back to demands.
So men can't cook?! B.S0 -
Wow I am shocked at how many people find this to be a topic of contention!
They do because many Americans are self-righteous puritans who experience orgasms when they engage in "blame the victim" argumentation. :-)0 -
I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss. But, one has to acknowledge how crazily our culture is set up in making it an upstream swim much of the time.
A favorite topic of mine - thank you for bringing it up and yes, I WILL take the time to post even though I have none. So I will make.
Like you, I DO understand perfectly well that I need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my own weight and simply make choices within the constraints of the culture that is indeed SET UP for obesity. Or else.
Sometimes though I feel that the culture is not just "set up" for obesity but it is "conspiratorily" set up for obesity!! I wouldn't put it past the Powers that Be.
While I am making all the choices that I can possibly make, within the constraints of my personal situation, to fight the culture that is set up this way and to maintain a healthy weight, I really do believe that pointing at those cultural determinants and making people AWARE of them does not mean "whining, complaining, blaming others for your own shortcomings" and other "blame the victim" junk that Americans usually adore passing around.
It simply helps people fight back - not just with personal choices but politically too - at least this is what you would hope would happen eventually.
After reading tons of articles on obesity from Medicine, Sociology, Psychology and other cross-disciplinary fields - I could count a million ways in which the culture has become set up for obesity. Unfortunately, large portion sizes and a Mc at every corner is just the tip of the iceberg.
- The entire culture has engineered activity out of people's lives in the name of convenience and comfort (from something as simple as remote-control TV-s and buttons-everything to going everywhere by car or HAVING TO drive everywhere given time constraints, to no sidewalks and attractive public venues where people could go for strolls like Europeans do, etc). In order to move enough in this culture, you have to carve out special time during the day and turn it into an efficient task at the gym. This demand will compete with the million other demands that the average person has in this society - so good luck keeping it up and making "MOVING" the queen of all other priorities. Having grown up elsewhere, among people who were all thin despite nobody EVER exercising formally at a gym ...this part is all too clear.
- The Internet, Smart phones and other gadgetry is sucking spare-time out of our day like a sponge is sucking water.
- The TV is a classic.
- Women no longer cook, whether because they are "career women" or just SAHM-s who believe that it is more important to haul jrs. to 1 million organized activities during the day than stay at home to cut up onions. This is largely perceived as "non-sexy, backward, heck even oppressive". Never mind those who get the kids in the bus at 7:30 am so the rest of the day can be dedicated to volunteering at school, shopping, scrap-booking - anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
The bottom line is, career or not, American women on average, no longer cook; or they believe that slapping together some convenience foods qualifies as cooking. For the gender sensitive, if you ask why I only "blame" women for this and not men - I am not blaming anyone. I am simply pointing that half of the population that used to cook checked out of this task and it's not like the other half checked in, rightfully or wrongfully so. Cooking has been outsourced - genie is out of the bottle. It is simply the way it has worked out, gender justice or not.
- The crap the the food industry puts in all of these convenience foods, take-outs or even restaurant food is surreal - from the tons of sugar and corn syrup to 1 million things you can't pronounce, to hormones in milk that makes girls get their periods at 9 and fibroids the size of the New Year's Eve NY apple at 40 ...and balloon like crazy by the time they are 18... ending up with a hanging-type belly that is recognizably American...you get the idea.
- The incredibly fast-paced lives with one million demands and obligations pulling the average Joe in all directions: overload in work-demands, children's school demands, children's activities demands, housework demands, groceries shopping demands, commuting demands, technology that acts as the most insidious time-thief despite having proclaimed the very opposite - to save people time...as well as going crazy over sets of "choices", the list could go on. Some of these demands can be very small *(such as sorting through papers from school or signing papers to send back to school). But between the 1 million big demands (such as work projects), the 1 million medium demands, and the 1 million small demands...people deal with an endless "to do" list that is simply eating away at their quality of life, places them in a constant state of stress, anxiety and restlessness, reduced authentic companionship and leads, for many, to overeating as a way of coping with stress.
- The non-social manner in which Americans tend to eat: fast, efficiently, often at their desks, often alone, often at midnight snacking on "feel good" foods to accompany some action movie, without any conversation or human interaction that help slow down the pace of eating.
- And what to make of those families needing to work 2-3 miserable jobs just to get by in today's society? Or those who have only one job that requires increasing over-time and energy (both physical and mental) so they can compete with zealous co-workers?
- What of genetically modified everything, chickens as big as ostriches (how in the world do they get them like that I will never understand), etc.
The list could go on - and on - and on.
I have met many people who react negatively when they see fat people - as if these unfortunate souls are begging to be hated given their "poor, poor, despicable personal choices".
When I visit back in my country, I hear many people talking condescendingly about how fat Americans are.
Having lived here for over a decade and having become, at some point, decently fat myself, I feel nothing but compassion towards fat individuals because I know how one gets there and I also know they are largely victims of a culture designed to F them up.
Now this culture of obesity is spreading elsewhere:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ
.... though I don't think it will ever have the virulent effects it has had here given some local traditions and ways of life that still linger and hopefully will for a while.
Now back to demands.
So men can't cook?! B.S
This is what you got out of this?
They can - but they don't. :-)
It's not like you have men cooking at the same rate as the 1950's housewives were doing.
Do differentiate between how things "SHOULD or COULD be' and how things actually ARE.
Moreover, now men SHOULD cook because women are doing what instead?
Last time I checked, the % of domestic husbands was still very small and most men continue to work full-time jobs.
In the case of a dual earner couple, they are both tired as H when they get home.
In the case of a SAHP-working parent, you would think the SAHP would find ample time during the day to cook with clean foods, especially after children are 5 and in the arms of the school until 3:00pm.
But it is not necessarily the way it's working out for many such couples. ;-)0 -
anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
If that takes "A LOT of time," it's being done wrong.0 -
Could people please stop trying to make all the drink sizes smaller? I drink unsweet tea and sometimes I need more than a swallow. They do sell things other than cokes.It always blows my mind when I go to get a burger at a fast food place, and I order the smallest one there, on it's own, but then want to share a "large" drink with my boyfriend - and the "large" drink is always twice the size that I think it's going to be (other than at a few select places).0 -
Saying that her point is valid over and over does not make it more valid.
Are restaurant serving sizes bigger these days and/or contain more calories? Yes.
Are people eating out more often than they used to? Yes.
Can people make their own decisons about whether or not to eat out and what to order if they do? Yes.
My issue with calling it a Cultural Issue is that it tends to lessen the responsibility of the individual. It is not a culture or a restaurant's responsibility to keep me fit if I am not prudent enough to be aware of what I am eating.
How does saying something is a cultural issue lessen personal responsibility? Overcoming something cultural can be difficult, but overcoming it doesn't make it less of a cultural issue.
Please tell me how it is difficult to overcome this particular issue.
There are many things that could make it hard. Habit would be a big one, but social pressure, financial guilt, and other things could be at play.
Habit is one of the first things that needs to be broken and redefined when deciding to lose weight, no? I somewhat agree on the social pressure aspect, as many people like to go out to eat when hanging out. But again, this is something that can be overcome.
What I do not understand is the financial guilt. Explain what you mean, pretty please?
Feeling the need to eat all the food that paid for, even if you are full long before the plate is empty. Taking leftovers home is not always an option.
ETA: can you explain how being able to overcome the cultural issue makes it not a cultural issue, pretty please?
Did I say that? :huh: I thought I was saying that something being a cultural issue doesnt make it a valid excuse.
Perhaps we have switched responders then. I thought I was replying to the same poster that posted "My issue with calling it a Cultural Issue is that it tends to lessen the responsibility of the individual." above.
I don't understand what personal responsibility has to do with culture. We live in a culture of oversized portions. That is true whether (or how often) one chooses to eat the portions.0 -
I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss. But, one has to acknowledge how crazily our culture is set up in making it an upstream swim much of the time.
A favorite topic of mine - thank you for bringing it up and yes, I WILL take the time to post even though I have none. So I will make.
Like you, I DO understand perfectly well that I need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my own weight and simply make choices within the constraints of the culture that is indeed SET UP for obesity. Or else.
Sometimes though I feel that the culture is not just "set up" for obesity but it is "conspiratorily" set up for obesity!! I wouldn't put it past the Powers that Be.
While I am making all the choices that I can possibly make, within the constraints of my personal situation, to fight the culture that is set up this way and to maintain a healthy weight, I really do believe that pointing at those cultural determinants and making people AWARE of them does not mean "whining, complaining, blaming others for your own shortcomings" and other "blame the victim" junk that Americans usually adore passing around.
It simply helps people fight back - not just with personal choices but politically too - at least this is what you would hope would happen eventually.
After reading tons of articles on obesity from Medicine, Sociology, Psychology and other cross-disciplinary fields - I could count a million ways in which the culture has become set up for obesity. Unfortunately, large portion sizes and a Mc at every corner is just the tip of the iceberg.
- The entire culture has engineered activity out of people's lives in the name of convenience and comfort (from something as simple as remote-control TV-s and buttons-everything to going everywhere by car or HAVING TO drive everywhere given time constraints, to no sidewalks and attractive public venues where people could go for strolls like Europeans do, etc). In order to move enough in this culture, you have to carve out special time during the day and turn it into an efficient task at the gym. This demand will compete with the million other demands that the average person has in this society - so good luck keeping it up and making "MOVING" the queen of all other priorities. Having grown up elsewhere, among people who were all thin despite nobody EVER exercising formally at a gym ...this part is all too clear.
- The Internet, Smart phones and other gadgetry is sucking spare-time out of our day like a sponge is sucking water.
- The TV is a classic.
- Women no longer cook, whether because they are "career women" or just SAHM-s who believe that it is more important to haul jrs. to 1 million organized activities during the day than stay at home to cut up onions. This is largely perceived as "non-sexy, backward, heck even oppressive". Never mind those who get the kids in the bus at 7:30 am so the rest of the day can be dedicated to volunteering at school, shopping, scrap-booking - anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
The bottom line is, career or not, American women on average, no longer cook; or they believe that slapping together some convenience foods qualifies as cooking. For the gender sensitive, if you ask why I only "blame" women for this and not men - I am not blaming anyone. I am simply pointing that half of the population that used to cook checked out of this task and it's not like the other half checked in, rightfully or wrongfully so. Cooking has been outsourced - genie is out of the bottle. It is simply the way it has worked out, gender justice or not.
- The crap the the food industry puts in all of these convenience foods, take-outs or even restaurant food is surreal - from the tons of sugar and corn syrup to 1 million things you can't pronounce, to hormones in milk that makes girls get their periods at 9 and fibroids the size of the New Year's Eve NY apple at 40 ...and balloon like crazy by the time they are 18... ending up with a hanging-type belly that is recognizably American...you get the idea.
- The incredibly fast-paced lives with one million demands and obligations pulling the average Joe in all directions: overload in work-demands, children's school demands, children's activities demands, housework demands, groceries shopping demands, commuting demands, technology that acts as the most insidious time-thief despite having proclaimed the very opposite - to save people time...as well as going crazy over sets of "choices", the list could go on. Some of these demands can be very small *(such as sorting through papers from school or signing papers to send back to school). But between the 1 million big demands (such as work projects), the 1 million medium demands, and the 1 million small demands...people deal with an endless "to do" list that is simply eating away at their quality of life, places them in a constant state of stress, anxiety and restlessness, reduced authentic companionship and leads, for many, to overeating as a way of coping with stress.
- The non-social manner in which Americans tend to eat: fast, efficiently, often at their desks, often alone, often at midnight snacking on "feel good" foods to accompany some action movie, without any conversation or human interaction that help slow down the pace of eating.
- And what to make of those families needing to work 2-3 miserable jobs just to get by in today's society? Or those who have only one job that requires increasing over-time and energy (both physical and mental) so they can compete with zealous co-workers?
- What of genetically modified everything, chickens as big as ostriches (how in the world do they get them like that I will never understand), etc.
The list could go on - and on - and on.
I have met many people who react negatively when they see fat people - as if these unfortunate souls are begging to be hated given their "poor, poor, despicable personal choices".
When I visit back in my country, I hear many people talking condescendingly about how fat Americans are.
Having lived here for over a decade and having become, at some point, decently fat myself, I feel nothing but compassion towards fat individuals because I know how one gets there and I also know they are largely victims of a culture designed to F them up.
Now this culture of obesity is spreading elsewhere:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ
.... though I don't think it will ever have the virulent effects it has had here given some local traditions and ways of life that still linger and hopefully will for a while.
Now back to demands.
So men can't cook?! B.S
This is what you got out of this?
They can - but they don't. :-)
It's not like you have men cooking at the same rate as the 1950's housewives were doing.
Do differentiate between how things "SHOULD or COULD be' and how things actually ARE.
Of course your correct.
I just have trouble stomaching your self righteous attitude. My bad.0 -
It's a vicious cycle. About 2/3 of adult Americans are overweight, and half of the overweight people are obese. Restaurants that serve a 'normal' sized portion according to the standard in the 50's will appear to be shortchanging their customers, and will begin to lose business. Once they upped the size, it is then very easy for people to assume that they're supposed to finish the whole big meal. As people get larger (along with their stomachs), they begin to expect even larger portions, prompting another round of supersizing by restaurants.
One thing about IKEA that I like in the U.S. is that they keep European portions at their cafeteria, which is tiny compared to standard USA size. I can have a meal of 5 meatballs + mashed potato, a slice of chocolate overload cake, and a lingonberry drink (real sugar) all for about 850 calories. That's not even half of my daily limit.
Before I count calories the only clue I had to stop eating is when I felt my stomach was so full it felt close to bursting. I had to retrain myself to really listen to my body, to stop when I feel "just enough" instead of "whoa nelly the wagon is overloaded". Having calorie count helps tremendously; I'm not gonna eat a 900-calorie steak then wolf down the 400-calorie mashed potato, and 500-calorie onion rings in one sitting, I'm gonna eat half or a third and take the rest home. The problem is that the general population rely on the overloaded signal (like I did) and don't count calories, so large American meals don't help at all.0 -
My issue with calling it a Cultural Issue is that it tends to lessen the responsibility of the individual. It is not a culture or a restaurant's responsibility to keep me fit if I am not prudent enough to be aware of what I am eating.
I'd say it is a cultural issue to some extent.
Take this thread - post after post after post saying that big portions are great because you can take the leftovers home to have another meal and every single I've checked who's said that so far who's had their location showing has been American.
To me, as a Brit, the idea of a meal being so large that you have to ask for a box to take home the left-overs is utterly bizarre. Go into an average British restaurant and ask for a box to take home leftovers and you'd be met with a baffled look - our portions (in the main) simply aren't that large and taking home food is almost unheard of. I've travelled a fair bit in my life but I've never been anywhere that has portion sizes the size of those that seem to be 'normal' in the US - nor have I been anywhere where it's normal to take half your dinner home with you.
Think about it - doesn't it seem just a bit bizarre that you're going out for ONE meal and being given so much food that it could actually feed your for 2-3? Quite apart from the bizarreness of it, there's the psychology - there's been a number of studies that have shown that when people are given huge portions they eat more than they would have naturally.0 -
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Obeisty being cultural...interesting.
It's like saying alcoholism is too because it's readily available everywhere....
Clean plate police???? Please when my mother said clean your plates it was because there was no snacking...and it was turnip or something I didn't like....and we were much more active then as well and our parents knew we needed the food because when they let us away with no eating it we whined later...I'm Hungry
It doesn't matter how big the portions are anywhere...you not the culture is the person who says no thanks I am done box this up please. It is you who chooses to walk/lift/bike (exercise) or not.
Individuals are to blame for their weight issues....no one and nothing else...(regarless of why ie emotional eating etc)
Frist sentence in the OP - "I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss."
I'm not sure why anyone would think control negates cultural influence.
Yes the OP is all for persoal responsibility but then goes on to blame culture....passive agressive if you ask me.
And why think control negates cultural influence...because it does.0 -
I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss. But, one has to acknowledge how crazily our culture is set up in making it an upstream swim much of the time.
A favorite topic of mine - thank you for bringing it up and yes, I WILL take the time to post even though I have none. So I will make.
Like you, I DO understand perfectly well that I need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my own weight and simply make choices within the constraints of the culture that is indeed SET UP for obesity. Or else.
Sometimes though I feel that the culture is not just "set up" for obesity but it is "conspiratorily" set up for obesity!! I wouldn't put it past the Powers that Be.
While I am making all the choices that I can possibly make, within the constraints of my personal situation, to fight the culture that is set up this way and to maintain a healthy weight, I really do believe that pointing at those cultural determinants and making people AWARE of them does not mean "whining, complaining, blaming others for your own shortcomings" and other "blame the victim" junk that Americans usually adore passing around.
It simply helps people fight back - not just with personal choices but politically too - at least this is what you would hope would happen eventually.
After reading tons of articles on obesity from Medicine, Sociology, Psychology and other cross-disciplinary fields - I could count a million ways in which the culture has become set up for obesity. Unfortunately, large portion sizes and a Mc at every corner is just the tip of the iceberg.
- The entire culture has engineered activity out of people's lives in the name of convenience and comfort (from something as simple as remote-control TV-s and buttons-everything to going everywhere by car or HAVING TO drive everywhere given time constraints, to no sidewalks and attractive public venues where people could go for strolls like Europeans do, etc). In order to move enough in this culture, you have to carve out special time during the day and turn it into an efficient task at the gym. This demand will compete with the million other demands that the average person has in this society - so good luck keeping it up and making "MOVING" the queen of all other priorities. Having grown up elsewhere, among people who were all thin despite nobody EVER exercising formally at a gym ...this part is all too clear.
- The Internet, Smart phones and other gadgetry is sucking spare-time out of our day like a sponge is sucking water.
- The TV is a classic.
- Women no longer cook, whether because they are "career women" or just SAHM-s who believe that it is more important to haul jrs. to 1 million organized activities during the day than stay at home to cut up onions. This is largely perceived as "non-sexy, backward, heck even oppressive". Never mind those who get the kids in the bus at 7:30 am so the rest of the day can be dedicated to volunteering at school, shopping, scrap-booking - anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
The bottom line is, career or not, American women on average, no longer cook; or they believe that slapping together some convenience foods qualifies as cooking. For the gender sensitive, if you ask why I only "blame" women for this and not men - I am not blaming anyone. I am simply pointing that half of the population that used to cook checked out of this task and it's not like the other half checked in, rightfully or wrongfully so. Cooking has been outsourced - genie is out of the bottle. It is simply the way it has worked out, gender justice or not.
- The crap the the food industry puts in all of these convenience foods, take-outs or even restaurant food is surreal - from the tons of sugar and corn syrup to 1 million things you can't pronounce, to hormones in milk that makes girls get their periods at 9 and fibroids the size of the New Year's Eve NY apple at 40 ...and balloon like crazy by the time they are 18... ending up with a hanging-type belly that is recognizably American...you get the idea.
- The incredibly fast-paced lives with one million demands and obligations pulling the average Joe in all directions: overload in work-demands, children's school demands, children's activities demands, housework demands, groceries shopping demands, commuting demands, technology that acts as the most insidious time-thief despite having proclaimed the very opposite - to save people time...as well as going crazy over sets of "choices", the list could go on. Some of these demands can be very small *(such as sorting through papers from school or signing papers to send back to school). But between the 1 million big demands (such as work projects), the 1 million medium demands, and the 1 million small demands...people deal with an endless "to do" list that is simply eating away at their quality of life, places them in a constant state of stress, anxiety and restlessness, reduced authentic companionship and leads, for many, to overeating as a way of coping with stress.
- The non-social manner in which Americans tend to eat: fast, efficiently, often at their desks, often alone, often at midnight snacking on "feel good" foods to accompany some action movie, without any conversation or human interaction that help slow down the pace of eating.
- And what to make of those families needing to work 2-3 miserable jobs just to get by in today's society? Or those who have only one job that requires increasing over-time and energy (both physical and mental) so they can compete with zealous co-workers?
- What of genetically modified everything, chickens as big as ostriches (how in the world do they get them like that I will never understand), etc.
The list could go on - and on - and on.
I have met many people who react negatively when they see fat people - as if these unfortunate souls are begging to be hated given their "poor, poor, despicable personal choices".
When I visit back in my country, I hear many people talking condescendingly about how fat Americans are.
Having lived here for over a decade and having become, at some point, decently fat myself, I feel nothing but compassion towards fat individuals because I know how one gets there and I also know they are largely victims of a culture designed to F them up.
Now this culture of obesity is spreading elsewhere:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ
.... though I don't think it will ever have the virulent effects it has had here given some local traditions and ways of life that still linger and hopefully will for a while.
Now back to demands.
Go log your calories0 -
Sometimes I order two appetizers. One for my starter, like a salad or soup, then one for my meal, like crab cakes or something. Also, I will get a side of vegies many times with it.
Taking it to go is great when it's an option, but sometimes you cannot because you are not going straight home, or you are travelling and there's no fridge. Then it's just frustrating to see the food go to waste.0 -
My issue with calling it a Cultural Issue is that it tends to lessen the responsibility of the individual.
That's fallacious thinking. Issues can have both individual and cultural ramifications. To dismiss the myriad of cultural implications of the "obesity epidemic", in my opinion, is as absurd a claim as saying that personal responsibility plays no role.0 -
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You know, honestly, this is one of those "our culture" OPs that I have trouble not agreeing with to a large degree.
If someone grows up in the U.S. and follows the clean your plate method (and let's me honest many parents teach this to their kids) and eats out regularly, they very likely will become overweight. And I will agree with the OP that I really enjoyed eating out in Japan because I could try a variety of dishes that would add up to a meal, rather than being forced to order 1 thing in a restaurant and box up over half of it. Yes, the value is there in the sense that you get the leftovers, but I hate carrying food home as I'm often hiking (we often walk several miles with our kids to go out for tacos for example), or we're traveling and the food will spoil in the car. It does indeed take some of the fun away.
That said, it is not an excuse. We will often share 1 or 2 plates among the 4 of us, or we go to restaurants where the portion sizes are sane, such as steak houses and sushi restaurants. I'm also not afraid to order the "woman's cut" steak while I'm cutting, for example. The "big man" B.S. can suck it when it comes to food . . . okay, while I'm cutting, bulking is an entirely different thing. lol
The point though is that there are all sorts of obstacles out there in regard to any of our goals, not just our dieting goals. Think about all those things that you'd rather be doing than going to work. But you still go to work. This is no different. Yes, it can be hard, but set your mind to it and get it done.
I agree that looking at it from a Big Picture standpoint that the culture has shifted towards bigger servings and higher calories. I just hate that it is used as fodder for "restaurants made me fat!" type blaming or the "it is the culture we live in!" excuses.
I totally agree. It is a seriously annoying fact of eating out in the U.S. and it's embarrassing that this is what the population as a whole seems to buy into. I avoid most of the casual dining chains for this reason, and I've always been very careful about restaurant choice when entertaining clients from overseas.
That said, using it as an excuse? It's one of many available excuses. If that's all it is, pick one. Otherwise, yes, learn to work around it.
I would really love a Japan-style street food culture here, tbh. I love trying new foods and having it in small, cheap portions would rock. And something simple like grilled meat-on-a-stick would be particularly awesome because it is very difficult to get lean protein when eating fast food.
It's funny that you mention the protein. One would think it would be easier to get a pure protein bomb in the U.S. than Japan, but that's not true. I often ate at the yakitori joints and it was nothing but chicken and then I'd add some grilled onion, mushrooms and tomatoes and would be done with it. It would total 10+ different cuts rather than one very plain and sad chicken breast without sauce and a side of no butter broccoli.
All restaurants in the U.S. aren't so bad though, but it does takes some looking around.
So yea, irritating, but not an excuse.0 -
I agree that our culture is set up for obesity, and its not just the restaurant portions! Like others have said, we are overworked and overscheduled, without enough time to cook or exercise, yet somehow, a cost effective, nutritious alternative to cooking has not evolved. Other than at a salad store (expensive!), I don't know anywhere where you can go and get a plate that is 1/2 healthy veggies, 1/4 starch, and 1/4 lean protein.
I cook for my family 5-6 nights per week, and I plan out balanced dinners. But go to any restaurant and you're getting lots of carbs, almost no veggies, and the meat... sometimes okay, but more often than not has some kind of sauce, or is cooked in a way that introduces a lot of fat.
I find it very frustrating that I have to choose between, say, working out, or eating healthy, because after work, doing homework with the kids and running to a soccer game, I simply do not have the time and energy to both cook and hit the gym. Needless to say, I usually end up cooking and skipping the gym, because who would want to work out with a belly full of pizza!0 -
TBH I didn't read the entire thread but I just play that role where I get a box with my food and immediately portion off what I'm saving for a different meal. It's not hard and the servers don't care. No guilt.
And if it's fast food...well if I'm eating fast food then obviously I'm not as concerned.0 -
anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
If that takes "A LOT of time," it's being done wrong.
BS.
Even the simplest meals can take a significant amount of time...between taking out containers, peeling or preparing the fresh food, and cleaning up, putting dishes away, etc. Do remember I also assume you cook economically. For example I never buy chicken breasts because I want them organic and organic chicken breasts are expensive as H.
So I buy whole organic chickens that come out less expensive, and I butcher them myself.
I can assure you that takes a significant chunk of time - just to get the meat ready for cooking.0 -
TL;DR....
But now it's cultures fault?0 -
It doesn't matter how big the portions are anywhere...you not the culture is the person who says no thanks I am done box this up please. It is you who chooses to walk/lift/bike (exercise) or not.
Individuals are to blame for their weight issues....no one and nothing else...(regarless of why ie emotional eating etc)
Why was I afraid that the parroting of this enormous bunch of BS was going to be absent in this thread?
My fears have been calmed.
So predictable, so hopeless.
Again go log your food...jeez.
As well lots of men cook and are great cooks, lots of single mothers come home and still feed their children nutrious food and lots of couples where both work come home and cook nutrious food for their family. Again it's all a choice....and speaking from personal experience from all 3 situations and still manage exercise, logging my food and having shoes with laces that are tied.
And as for the cultural bias remember that the US and Canada are melting pots of many cultures put together...0 -
And why think control negates cultural influence...because it does.
Impossible. If control negates cultural influence, then there is no such thing as cultural influence, because any cultural influence can be controlled. And if there is no cultural influence, there is nothing to negate.
The very fact that personal responsibility and control must come into play proves cultural influence.0 -
"Where our ancestors came from, how they adapted and managed to their environment, and where we live today all combine to have a significant impact on our health." Eat what your grandparents+ ate, best advice I can give you. Done.0
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Wow I am shocked at how many people find this to be a topic of contention!
They do because many Americans are self-righteous puritans who experience orgasms when they engage in "blame the victim" argumentation. :-)
Pot meet kettle? :laugh:0 -
I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss. But, one has to acknowledge how crazily our culture is set up in making it an upstream swim much of the time.
A favorite topic of mine - thank you for bringing it up and yes, I WILL take the time to post even though I have none. So I will make.
Like you, I DO understand perfectly well that I need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my own weight and simply make choices within the constraints of the culture that is indeed SET UP for obesity. Or else.
Sometimes though I feel that the culture is not just "set up" for obesity but it is "conspiratorily" set up for obesity!! I wouldn't put it past the Powers that Be.
While I am making all the choices that I can possibly make, within the constraints of my personal situation, to fight the culture that is set up this way and to maintain a healthy weight, I really do believe that pointing at those cultural determinants and making people AWARE of them does not mean "whining, complaining, blaming others for your own shortcomings" and other "blame the victim" junk that Americans usually adore passing around.
It simply helps people fight back - not just with personal choices but politically too - at least this is what you would hope would happen eventually.
After reading tons of articles on obesity from Medicine, Sociology, Psychology and other cross-disciplinary fields - I could count a million ways in which the culture has become set up for obesity. Unfortunately, large portion sizes and a Mc at every corner is just the tip of the iceberg.
- The entire culture has engineered activity out of people's lives in the name of convenience and comfort (from something as simple as remote-control TV-s and buttons-everything to going everywhere by car or HAVING TO drive everywhere given time constraints, to no sidewalks and attractive public venues where people could go for strolls like Europeans do, etc). In order to move enough in this culture, you have to carve out special time during the day and turn it into an efficient task at the gym. This demand will compete with the million other demands that the average person has in this society - so good luck keeping it up and making "MOVING" the queen of all other priorities. Having grown up elsewhere, among people who were all thin despite nobody EVER exercising formally at a gym ...this part is all too clear.
- The Internet, Smart phones and other gadgetry is sucking spare-time out of our day like a sponge is sucking water.
- The TV is a classic.
- Women no longer cook, whether because they are "career women" or just SAHM-s who believe that it is more important to haul jrs. to 1 million organized activities during the day than stay at home to cut up onions. This is largely perceived as "non-sexy, backward, heck even oppressive". Never mind those who get the kids in the bus at 7:30 am so the rest of the day can be dedicated to volunteering at school, shopping, scrap-booking - anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
The bottom line is, career or not, American women on average, no longer cook; or they believe that slapping together some convenience foods qualifies as cooking. For the gender sensitive, if you ask why I only "blame" women for this and not men - I am not blaming anyone. I am simply pointing that half of the population that used to cook checked out of this task and it's not like the other half checked in, rightfully or wrongfully so. Cooking has been outsourced - genie is out of the bottle. It is simply the way it has worked out, gender justice or not.
- The crap the the food industry puts in all of these convenience foods, take-outs or even restaurant food is surreal - from the tons of sugar and corn syrup to 1 million things you can't pronounce, to hormones in milk that makes girls get their periods at 9 and fibroids the size of the New Year's Eve NY apple at 40 ...and balloon like crazy by the time they are 18... ending up with a hanging-type belly that is recognizably American...you get the idea.
- The incredibly fast-paced lives with one million demands and obligations pulling the average Joe in all directions: overload in work-demands, children's school demands, children's activities demands, housework demands, groceries shopping demands, commuting demands, technology that acts as the most insidious time-thief despite having proclaimed the very opposite - to save people time...as well as going crazy over sets of "choices", the list could go on. Some of these demands can be very small *(such as sorting through papers from school or signing papers to send back to school). But between the 1 million big demands (such as work projects), the 1 million medium demands, and the 1 million small demands...people deal with an endless "to do" list that is simply eating away at their quality of life, places them in a constant state of stress, anxiety and restlessness, reduced authentic companionship and leads, for many, to overeating as a way of coping with stress.
- The non-social manner in which Americans tend to eat: fast, efficiently, often at their desks, often alone, often at midnight snacking on "feel good" foods to accompany some action movie, without any conversation or human interaction that help slow down the pace of eating.
- And what to make of those families needing to work 2-3 miserable jobs just to get by in today's society? Or those who have only one job that requires increasing over-time and energy (both physical and mental) so they can compete with zealous co-workers?
- What of genetically modified everything, chickens as big as ostriches (how in the world do they get them like that I will never understand), etc.
The list could go on - and on - and on.
I have met many people who react negatively when they see fat people - as if these unfortunate souls are begging to be hated given their "poor, poor, despicable personal choices".
When I visit back in my country, I hear many people talking condescendingly about how fat Americans are.
Having lived here for over a decade and having become, at some point, decently fat myself, I feel nothing but compassion towards fat individuals because I know how one gets there and I also know they are largely victims of a culture designed to F them up.
Now this culture of obesity is spreading elsewhere:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ
.... though I don't think it will ever have the virulent effects it has had here given some local traditions and ways of life that still linger and hopefully will for a while.
Now back to demands.
So men can't cook?! B.S
This is what you got out of this?
They can - but they don't. :-)
It's not like you have men cooking at the same rate as the 1950's housewives were doing.
Do differentiate between how things "SHOULD or COULD be' and how things actually ARE.
Of course your correct.
I just have trouble stomaching your self righteous attitude. My bad.
Self-righteous because I point to the cultural ugliness that has caused masses of people to become mountains of fat? Really? But those who blame fat individuals for making "bad choices" are not self-righteous.
You have it straightened out.0 -
I am all for personal responsibility when it comes to weight loss. But, one has to acknowledge how crazily our culture is set up in making it an upstream swim much of the time.
A favorite topic of mine - thank you for bringing it up and yes, I WILL take the time to post even though I have none. So I will make.
Like you, I DO understand perfectly well that I need to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for my own weight and simply make choices within the constraints of the culture that is indeed SET UP for obesity. Or else.
Sometimes though I feel that the culture is not just "set up" for obesity but it is "conspiratorily" set up for obesity!! I wouldn't put it past the Powers that Be.
While I am making all the choices that I can possibly make, within the constraints of my personal situation, to fight the culture that is set up this way and to maintain a healthy weight, I really do believe that pointing at those cultural determinants and making people AWARE of them does not mean "whining, complaining, blaming others for your own shortcomings" and other "blame the victim" junk that Americans usually adore passing around.
It simply helps people fight back - not just with personal choices but politically too - at least this is what you would hope would happen eventually.
After reading tons of articles on obesity from Medicine, Sociology, Psychology and other cross-disciplinary fields - I could count a million ways in which the culture has become set up for obesity. Unfortunately, large portion sizes and a Mc at every corner is just the tip of the iceberg.
- The entire culture has engineered activity out of people's lives in the name of convenience and comfort (from something as simple as remote-control TV-s and buttons-everything to going everywhere by car or HAVING TO drive everywhere given time constraints, to no sidewalks and attractive public venues where people could go for strolls like Europeans do, etc). In order to move enough in this culture, you have to carve out special time during the day and turn it into an efficient task at the gym. This demand will compete with the million other demands that the average person has in this society - so good luck keeping it up and making "MOVING" the queen of all other priorities. Having grown up elsewhere, among people who were all thin despite nobody EVER exercising formally at a gym ...this part is all too clear.
- The Internet, Smart phones and other gadgetry is sucking spare-time out of our day like a sponge is sucking water.
- The TV is a classic.
- Women no longer cook, whether because they are "career women" or just SAHM-s who believe that it is more important to haul jrs. to 1 million organized activities during the day than stay at home to cut up onions. This is largely perceived as "non-sexy, backward, heck even oppressive". Never mind those who get the kids in the bus at 7:30 am so the rest of the day can be dedicated to volunteering at school, shopping, scrap-booking - anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
The bottom line is, career or not, American women on average, no longer cook; or they believe that slapping together some convenience foods qualifies as cooking. For the gender sensitive, if you ask why I only "blame" women for this and not men - I am not blaming anyone. I am simply pointing that half of the population that used to cook checked out of this task and it's not like the other half checked in, rightfully or wrongfully so. Cooking has been outsourced - genie is out of the bottle. It is simply the way it has worked out, gender justice or not.
- The crap the the food industry puts in all of these convenience foods, take-outs or even restaurant food is surreal - from the tons of sugar and corn syrup to 1 million things you can't pronounce, to hormones in milk that makes girls get their periods at 9 and fibroids the size of the New Year's Eve NY apple at 40 ...and balloon like crazy by the time they are 18... ending up with a hanging-type belly that is recognizably American...you get the idea.
- The incredibly fast-paced lives with one million demands and obligations pulling the average Joe in all directions: overload in work-demands, children's school demands, children's activities demands, housework demands, groceries shopping demands, commuting demands, technology that acts as the most insidious time-thief despite having proclaimed the very opposite - to save people time...as well as going crazy over sets of "choices", the list could go on. Some of these demands can be very small *(such as sorting through papers from school or signing papers to send back to school). But between the 1 million big demands (such as work projects), the 1 million medium demands, and the 1 million small demands...people deal with an endless "to do" list that is simply eating away at their quality of life, places them in a constant state of stress, anxiety and restlessness, reduced authentic companionship and leads, for many, to overeating as a way of coping with stress.
- The non-social manner in which Americans tend to eat: fast, efficiently, often at their desks, often alone, often at midnight snacking on "feel good" foods to accompany some action movie, without any conversation or human interaction that help slow down the pace of eating.
- And what to make of those families needing to work 2-3 miserable jobs just to get by in today's society? Or those who have only one job that requires increasing over-time and energy (both physical and mental) so they can compete with zealous co-workers?
- What of genetically modified everything, chickens as big as ostriches (how in the world do they get them like that I will never understand), etc.
The list could go on - and on - and on.
I have met many people who react negatively when they see fat people - as if these unfortunate souls are begging to be hated given their "poor, poor, despicable personal choices".
When I visit back in my country, I hear many people talking condescendingly about how fat Americans are.
Having lived here for over a decade and having become, at some point, decently fat myself, I feel nothing but compassion towards fat individuals because I know how one gets there and I also know they are largely victims of a culture designed to F them up.
Now this culture of obesity is spreading elsewhere:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGL3iT5MMdQ
.... though I don't think it will ever have the virulent effects it has had here given some local traditions and ways of life that still linger and hopefully will for a while.
Now back to demands.
Wow, you were able to make time to respond to this post, but you can't find time to log your calories or enter recipes. Interesting.0 -
I agree the OP and i also HATE when portions are smal but when u check the nutritional information of the meal you get like a WHOLE day of calories.. its ridiculous0
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It doesn't matter how big the portions are anywhere...you not the culture is the person who says no thanks I am done box this up please. It is you who chooses to walk/lift/bike (exercise) or not.
Individuals are to blame for their weight issues....no one and nothing else...(regarless of why ie emotional eating etc)
Why was I afraid that the parroting of this enormous bunch of BS was going to be absent in this thread?
My fears have been calmed.
So predictable, so hopeless.
Again go log your food...jeez.
As well lots of men cook and are great cooks, lots of single mothers come home and still feed their children nutrious food and lots of couples where both work come home and cook nutrious food for their family. Again it's all a choice....and speaking from personal experience from all 3 situations and still manage exercise, logging my food and having shoes with laces that are tied.
And as for the cultural bias remember that the US and Canada are melting pots of many cultures put together...
It LOTS of people do that, then why is America fat?0 -
So you make a choice that costs you extra time. But that doesn't mean you can't make healthy, nutritious meals in very little time.anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
If that takes "A LOT of time," it's being done wrong.
BS.
Even the simplest meals can take a significant amount of time...between taking out containers, peeling or preparing the fresh food, and cleaning up, putting dishes away, etc. Do remember I also assume you cook economically. For example I never buy chicken breasts because I want them organic and organic chicken breasts are expensive as H.
So I buy whole organic chickens that come out less expensive, and I butcher them myself.
I can assure you that takes a significant chunk of time - just to get the meat ready for cooking.0 -
anything BUT cooking appealing, nutritious and economic meals for the entire family (which by the way, takes A LOT of time usually).
If that takes "A LOT of time," it's being done wrong.
BS.
Even the simplest meals can take a significant amount of time...between taking out containers, peeling or preparing the fresh food, and cleaning up, putting dishes away, etc. Do remember I also assume you cook economically. For example I never buy chicken breasts because I want them organic and organic chicken breasts are expensive as H.
So I buy whole organic chickens that come out less expensive, and I butcher them myself.
I can assure you that takes a significant chunk of time - just to get the meat ready for cooking.
Haha and then you wonder why people don't want to do it?
Why would any women or man at that want to spend so much time in the kitchen when they could be playing with their children,at the gym or working their job.
No, cooking time can be kept to a minimum, especially with simple meals.0
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