Our culture is set up for obesity.
Replies
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You could also say that our culture is set up for overspending...we have a lot of consumer goods and lots of fairly easy credit.
But, it isn't the responsibility of industry to make wise choices for us...
Industry offers options and it is the role of business to make those choices enticing.
But, there's also a ton of information and support on the web so that just about anyone who can log on can find support for making different choices.0 -
The clever marketing strategies that sold the idea that "more is good" and led to the fat epidemic
Here is the history of bigger portion and the profits earned by big food. Great Entertainment.
The Men who Made us Fat Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLNbwNMtXQ0
right..so marketing made people fat, not overeating...got ya...
I understand your mindset, but you might misunderstand and miscalculate the power of marketing. It is no secret that next to R&D, marketing is a corporations largest budget. Think about that. If it didnt work, they wouldn't do it. We're talking billions a year for some companies. It's not because they are stupid, it's because it is effective.
You would think people would realize that if a lot of money is invested in a certain strategy that means it is effective and it works.
It is so much easier though to blame an individual's "choices", overeating 'cause they want to overeat, time management skills, gluttony, not knowing the RIGHT recipes that cook themselves in 3 minutes flat, the works.
Apparently you've never seen government programs
And it's even easier to assign blame to some third party's evil doing vs taking responsibility
Who said you shouldn't take responsibility?
I take responsibility ALL WHILE pointing to the "evil doings".
Your either/or mentality is just plain fallacious.
So they are forcing someone to purchase their product?0 -
You know, it even only takes me about 15 minutes of actual work time to make homemade bread. I've never understood why people need bread makers. It isn't time-consuming or difficult to make without one.
I guess if you start by grinding your own flour, it takes a long time, though.
I agree 100%. I think a lot of people really overestimate how much time it takes to cook. I don't know about you, but when I first started really cooking on my own it took me a while to make a meal, but as I got better at it, I became faster and faster. It really is just like any other task you do. Practice makes perfect!0 -
It's totally a cultural issue. I don't think any other country (well, Canada maybe) even lets you take leftovers home. I've never seen it in Europe at least... and portions were much smaller there.
I also don't know anybody where I am coming from who claims to be able to slap together "miracle recipes" in minutes flat (including prep, cleaning up, distributing leftovers in containers, etc) - which recipes are also tasty, healthy, fresh, all natural, etc. Definitely not for an entire family!
People there allocate significant amounts of time to cooking. As long as they did that, they were not fat.
Now that they are starting to live like Americans and no longer allocate that much time for cooking, they're starting to be fat.
How simple is that?
Good, tasty, nutritious food takes a certain amount of time to make.
Yes, that amount of time is worth it but that means other spheres of life will have to give.
Give me a time breakdown for making a good, tasty, nutritious meal.0 -
You could also say that our culture is set up for overspending...we have a lot of consumer goods and lots of fairly easy credit.
Nice try but hardly the same thing.
You do not have fight through financial and time constraints to curb overspending.
On the contrary, simply choosing to not overspend will help with time and financial constraints.0 -
I'm sure WisdomFromYou grinds her own flour, though. I mean, that's the only way after all. Those of us who are able to make healthy, nutritious, tasty meals in less time are fooling ourselves, clearly.You know, it even only takes me about 15 minutes of actual work time to make homemade bread. I've never understood why people need bread makers. It isn't time-consuming or difficult to make without one.
I guess if you start by grinding your own flour, it takes a long time, though.
I agree 100%. I think a lot of people really overestimate how much time it takes to cook. I don't know about you, but when I first started really cooking on my own it took me a while to make a meal, but as I got better at it, I became faster and faster. It really is just like any other task you do. Practice makes perfect!0 -
The clever marketing strategies that sold the idea that "more is good" and led to the fat epidemic
Here is the history of bigger portion and the profits earned by big food. Great Entertainment.
The Men who Made us Fat Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLNbwNMtXQ0
right..so marketing made people fat, not overeating...got ya...
I understand your mindset, but you might misunderstand and miscalculate the power of marketing. It is no secret that next to R&D, marketing is a corporations largest budget. Think about that. If it didnt work, they wouldn't do it. We're talking billions a year for some companies. It's not because they are stupid, it's because it is effective.
You would think people would realize that if a lot of money is invested in a certain strategy that means it is effective and it works.
It is so much easier though to blame an individual's "choices", overeating 'cause they want to overeat, time management skills, gluttony, not knowing the RIGHT recipes that cook themselves in 3 minutes flat, the works.
Apparently you've never seen government programs
And it's even easier to assign blame to some third party's evil doing vs taking responsibility
Who said you shouldn't take responsibility?
I take responsibility ALL WHILE pointing to the "evil doings".
Your either/or mentality is just plain fallacious.
There are no "evil doings" here. A restaurant offers a product/service. You choose between your options.0 -
I'm sure WisdomFromYou grinds her own flour, though. I mean, that's the only way after all. Those of us who are able to make healthy, nutritious, tasty meals in less time are fooling ourselves, clearly.You know, it even only takes me about 15 minutes of actual work time to make homemade bread. I've never understood why people need bread makers. It isn't time-consuming or difficult to make without one.
I guess if you start by grinding your own flour, it takes a long time, though.
I agree 100%. I think a lot of people really overestimate how much time it takes to cook. I don't know about you, but when I first started really cooking on my own it took me a while to make a meal, but as I got better at it, I became faster and faster. It really is just like any other task you do. Practice makes perfect!
My bread takes like 14hrs to make, so it has to be healthy
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/dining/081mrex.html0 -
I remember going out to dinner with some old work colleagues of mine. The portions at this place were unbelievable. I ate til I was full, and the leftovers I brought home were dinner for both my husband and I the next night. *No one* needs portion sizes like that. I agree, it does sort of reframe your idea of what "normal" looks like.0
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You could also say that our culture is set up for overspending...we have a lot of consumer goods and lots of fairly easy credit.
Nice try but hardly the same thing.
You do not have fight through financial and time constraints to curb overspending.
On the contrary, simply choosing to not overspend will help with time and financial constraints.
It also helps to elimimate eating out at restaurants.
0 -
Actually, I probably made my point poorly...
We have a lot of social and cultural messages which urge us to buy more than we need (I mean I've had 10 ad messages pop up since I've logged on MyFitnessPal alone.)
I haven't seen a single message which says: You know, you really don't need a Landcruiser...you should probably buy less of a car and put that money into an IRA..cause honey, one day you're going to be old.
You see an abundance of ads instilling the idea that you should eat out cause it is better (more fun! more food!), you don't see many ads saying: Look, making a meal at home is a wonderful way for your family to spend together.
But, if you look around on the web there are blogs supporting the joy of less consumption of consumer goods and places like MyFitnessPal, which can support chosing foods more wisely or making meals at home more frequent.0 -
I don`t beleive it is always about the portion size.. oftentimes it is about the ingredients... it`s getting harder and harder to find real food.. and or real food that has not been altered .. smothered in marinade, sauce, sweetened, added oils or flavourings.. I think quality is the issue as much as quantity!0
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Just so this dosen't get lost in a quote...if this is a cultural issue in the US and Canada explain how it is?????
There are so many cultures in Canada alone which culture do we blame????
The East Indians? the Philipinoes? The Germans? The Irish? The Native americans? The Chinese? Pakistani? Iranian? Egyptian? Cuban? (trust me this is just those that work in the company I do that have immigrated in the last 10 years) Caucasions born here with god knows how many cultures in their blood????
Which culture influence is to blame?
Did this sound like a good argument in your head before you wrote it out?
saying basically North American culture has set us up for obesity is absurd was my point
According to the WHO study
"Once considered a problem only of high-income countries, obesity rates are rising worldwide. These increases have been felt most dramatically in urban settings. The only remaining region of the world where obesity is not common is sub-Saharan Africa."
What sets us up for obesity is our inability to say no to ourselves as adults and get up off our lazy *kitten* and do something not our culture unlike the (quote from WHO on obesity)
"Many of the island nations of the South Pacific have very high rates of obesity. Nauru has the highest rates of obesity in the world (94.5%) followed by Samoa, the Federated States of Micronesia, and the American Samoa. Being big has traditionally been associated with health, beauty, and status and many of these beliefs remain prevalent today."
In North America fat is not pretty so the cultural influence argument goes out the window.0 -
The clever marketing strategies that sold the idea that "more is good" and led to the fat epidemic
Here is the history of bigger portion and the profits earned by big food. Great Entertainment.
The Men who Made us Fat Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLNbwNMtXQ0
right..so marketing made people fat, not overeating...got ya...
I understand your mindset, but you might misunderstand and miscalculate the power of marketing. It is no secret that next to R&D, marketing is a corporations largest budget. Think about that. If it didnt work, they wouldn't do it. We're talking billions a year for some companies. It's not because they are stupid, it's because it is effective.
You would think people would realize that if a lot of money is invested in a certain strategy that means it is effective and it works.
It is so much easier though to blame an individual's "choices", overeating 'cause they want to overeat, time management skills, gluttony, not knowing the RIGHT recipes that cook themselves in 3 minutes flat, the works.
Apparently you've never seen government programs
And it's even easier to assign blame to some third party's evil doing vs taking responsibility
Who said you shouldn't take responsibility?
I take responsibility ALL WHILE pointing to the "evil doings".
Your either/or mentality is just plain fallacious.
So they are forcing someone to purchase their product?
They and other social and biological conditions are strongly influencing people to purchase and fully consume the product.
People do not make choices in a structural and biological vacuum.
I know it is so simple to see it this way, and oh, so American - but bummer!
It's not how it works. People are affected by social influences, by genetic proclivities, and by time and financial constraints.
I happen to be a person with a naturally large appetite.
I am sure a good part of it is genetic as I see it in my little daughter who hardly had the time to become "perverted" by her "bad choices".
She eats very fast compared to other kids who mess around with a tiny bite of food for all eternity.
I have always been like this - so when I am making the choice of limiting my portion and eat slowly I am not making it in a vacuum.
I am making it AGAINST my natural inclination to do the exact opposite!!
That MATTERS.
Same can be said for social influences, financial and time constraints, etc.
You don't have to have an actual someone holding a gun to your head to have your choice affected by something outside of yourself.
Governments have figured out violence-free control a while ago.
Time for you to catch on. :-)0 -
I don`t beleive it is always about the portion size.. oftentimes it is about the ingredients... it`s getting harder and harder to find real food.. and or real food that has not been altered .. smothered in marinade, sauce, sweetened, added oils or flavourings.. I think quality is the issue as much as quantity!
That too - and so many others. I think I summed lots of them up in one place.0 -
But, it isn't the responsibility of industry to make wise choices for us...
Industry offers options and it is the role of business to make those choices enticing.
No one is saying it is. In fact, the restaurants would, in a normal market, be driven by the same cultural influences as individual people.0 -
There are no "evil doings" here. A restaurant offers a product/service. You choose between your options.
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by ignorance.
Either way, it's still a cutural issue when restaurants as a matter of course serve portions that are in fact 3 servings/a full days worth of calories. They do it because they want consumers to feel like they got their money's worth, but they're doing that by giving you more of the cheapest thing involved (usually cheap carbs) which are giving you a lot of calories and less nutrition.
It's not necessarily 'malice' nor need it be attributed to malice. But despite not being caused by 'evil' intent, that doesn't negate there being negative effects on a macro scale because we are being habituated to being served three portions when we should only be eating 1 (and yes, there's plenty of documented psychological studies that we are subconscously effected by serving size. When served more, people have a tendency to eat more, assuming that a "serving size" is related to ...well... a serving size (imagine that).
Now, can someone choose to eat less? Heck yeah. But they can also choose to serve less, but don't. Seriously, why must we have to request a child sized order of pop corn because the only other option is ginormous and super-ginormous extra. 30 years ago they managed while selling human sized portions.
It's not JUST a matter of individual excess (though individual excess is a factor) but one of corporate excess as well (*gasp* It can be a factor also!).
It's not either/or, it's that BOTH are being amped by a culture celebrating all forms of excess (well, except for being fat. In that area the same glory of excess becomes theater of judgement).
Usually it takes 20min-30min give or take either way. That's without including clean-up time. (I love cooking, not nearly as thrilled with the cleaning up after stage, unfortunately).Give me a time breakdown for making a good, tasty, nutritious meal.0 -
saying basically North American culture has set us up for obesity is absurd was my point
According to the WHO study
"Once considered a problem only of high-income countries, obesity rates are rising worldwide. These increases have been felt most dramatically in urban settings. The only remaining region of the world where obesity is not common is sub-Saharan Africa."
What sets us up for obesity is our inability to say no to ourselves as adults and get up off our lazy *kitten* and do something not our culture unlike the (quote from WHO on obesity)
"Many of the island nations of the South Pacific have very high rates of obesity. Nauru has the highest rates of obesity in the world (94.5%) followed by Samoa, the Federated States of Micronesia, and the American Samoa. Being big has traditionally been associated with health, beauty, and status and many of these beliefs remain prevalent today."
In North America fat is not pretty so the cultural influence argument goes out the window.
Not to copy another person's post, but did this sound like a good argument in your head before you wrote it out?
You deny any sort of cultural influence on obesity. To support this, you use the example of a cultural that has strong cultural influences towards obesity. :huh:
Then, since we don't have that particular cultural influence (which might be up for argument, actually), you then hold that there can be no other cultural influences that cause similar pressures?:noway:0 -
I completely agree! I don't think it helps either when your parents tell you 'eat all that's on your plate- don't be rude!'
Sounds like an excuse to me... I'd rather be rude and healthy than polite and not be able to fit through doorways.
I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I finished everything on my plate. I can't count how many nights I fell asleep at the table because I just couldn't eat it all. But I also grew up in a family where at times there was no food on the table.0 -
Just so this dosen't get lost in a quote...if this is a cultural issue in the US and Canada explain how it is?????
There are so many cultures in Canada alone which culture do we blame????
The East Indians? the Philipinoes? The Germans? The Irish? The Native americans? The Chinese? Pakistani? Iranian? Egyptian? Cuban? (trust me this is just those that work in the company I do that have immigrated in the last 10 years) Caucasions born here with god knows how many cultures in their blood????
Which culture influence is to blame?
Did this sound like a good argument in your head before you wrote it out?
You gotta wonder....
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
saying basically North American culture has set us up for obesity is absurd was my point
According to the WHO study
"Once considered a problem only of high-income countries, obesity rates are rising worldwide. These increases have been felt most dramatically in urban settings. The only remaining region of the world where obesity is not common is sub-Saharan Africa."
What sets us up for obesity is our inability to say no to ourselves as adults and get up off our lazy *kitten* and do something not our culture unlike the (quote from WHO on obesity)
"Many of the island nations of the South Pacific have very high rates of obesity. Nauru has the highest rates of obesity in the world (94.5%) followed by Samoa, the Federated States of Micronesia, and the American Samoa. Being big has traditionally been associated with health, beauty, and status and many of these beliefs remain prevalent today."
In North America fat is not pretty so the cultural influence argument goes out the window.
Not to copy another person's post, but did this sound like a good argument in your head before you wrote it out?
You deny any sort of cultural influence on obesity. To support this, you use the example of a cultural that has strong cultural influences towards obesity. :huh:
Then, since we don't have that particular cultural influence (which might be up for argument, actually), you then hold that there can be no other cultural influences that cause similar pressures?:noway:
Read / Digest/ comprehend/respond
...what I said was NORTH AMERICAN CULTURE is not responsible for it's rampant obesity...our culture is setup to hate obesity, make fun of it, poke it, make it pay more for cloths, or two plane tickets and all around be disgusted by it and always has been.
Culture is defined as
the sum of total of the learned behavior of a group of people that are generally considered to be the tradition of that people and are transmitted from generation to generation.
Culture is a collective programming of the mind that distinguishes the members of one group or category of people from another.
.0 -
I don`t beleive it is always about the portion size.. oftentimes it is about the ingredients... it`s getting harder and harder to find real food.. and or real food that has not been altered .. smothered in marinade, sauce, sweetened, added oils or flavourings.. I think quality is the issue as much as quantity!
I find it hard to believe that finding real food is getting harder to find.
Every grocery store I go to has fresh & frozen produce sections, dairy & meat aisles. Legumes, rice etc. All 'real' food.0 -
There are no "evil doings" here. A restaurant offers a product/service. You choose between your options.
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by ignorance.
Either way, it's still a cutural issue when restaurants as a matter of course serve portions that are in fact 3 servings/a full days worth of calories. They do it because they want consumers to feel like they got their money's worth, but they're doing that by giving you more of the cheapest thing involved (usually cheap carbs) which are giving you a lot of calories and less nutrition.
It's not necessarily 'malice' nor need it be attributed to malice. But despite not being caused by 'evil' intent, that doesn't negate there being negative effects on a macro scale because we are being habituated to being served three portions when we should only be eating 1 (and yes, there's plenty of documented psychological studies that we are subconscously effected by serving size. When served more, people have a tendency to eat more, assuming that serving size is related to ...well... a serving size (imagine that).
Now, can someone choose to eat less? Heck yeah. But they can also choose to serve less, but don't. Seriously, why must we have to request a child sized order of pop corn because the only other option is 'ginormous' and super-ginormous extra. 30 years ago they managed while selling human sized portions.
It's not JUST a matter of individual excess but one of corporate excess as well. It's not either/or, it's that BOTH are being amped by a culture of excess.
It always makes you wonder why is it that individuals must always be burdened with making "the right choice" to defend themselves against "natural" business-as-usual rights, but businesses should never be asked to make the morally right choice in exchange of slightly less gain.
Apparently they cannot be held to the moral standards an individual is held - but they do claim the right to be considered A PERSON when it is legally convenient.0 -
The clever marketing strategies that sold the idea that "more is good" and led to the fat epidemic
Here is the history of bigger portion and the profits earned by big food. Great Entertainment.
The Men who Made us Fat Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLNbwNMtXQ0
right..so marketing made people fat, not overeating...got ya...
I understand your mindset, but you might misunderstand and miscalculate the power of marketing. It is no secret that next to R&D, marketing is a corporations largest budget. Think about that. If it didnt work, they wouldn't do it. We're talking billions a year for some companies. It's not because they are stupid, it's because it is effective.
You would think people would realize that if a lot of money is invested in a certain strategy that means it is effective and it works.
It is so much easier though to blame an individual's "choices", overeating 'cause they want to overeat, time management skills, gluttony, not knowing the RIGHT recipes that cook themselves in 3 minutes flat, the works.
Apparently you've never seen government programs
And it's even easier to assign blame to some third party's evil doing vs taking responsibility
Who said you shouldn't take responsibility?
I take responsibility ALL WHILE pointing to the "evil doings".
Your either/or mentality is just plain fallacious.
So they are forcing someone to purchase their product?
They and other social and biological conditions are strongly influencing people to purchase and fully consume the product.
People do not make choices in a structural and biological vacuum.
I know it is so simple to see it this way, and oh, so American - but bummer!
It's not how it works. People are affected by social influences, by genetic proclivities, and by time and financial constraints.
I happen to be a person with a naturally large appetite.
I am sure a good part of it is genetic as I see it in my little daughter who hardly had the time to become "perverted" by her "bad choices".
She eats very fast compared to other kids who mess around with a tiny bite of food for all eternity.
I have always been like this - so when I am making the choice of limiting my portion and eat slowly I am not making it in a vacuum.
I am making it AGAINST my natural inclination to do the exact opposite!!
That MATTERS.
Same can be said for social influences, financial and time constraints, etc.
You don't have to have an actual someone holding a gun to your head to have your choice affected by something outside of yourself.
Governments have figured out violence-free control a while ago.
Time for you to catch on. :-)
So you mean to tell me you exert some will power and don't eat everything in sight, hence you are not obese? But if people do not do so, then it is partially to blame some third parties for marketing,making their product convenient or making their food taste good?0 -
Just so this dosen't get lost in a quote...if this is a cultural issue in the US and Canada explain how it is?????
There are so many cultures in Canada alone which culture do we blame????
The East Indians? the Philipinoes? The Germans? The Irish? The Native americans? The Chinese? Pakistani? Iranian? Egyptian? Cuban? (trust me this is just those that work in the company I do that have immigrated in the last 10 years) Caucasions born here with god knows how many cultures in their blood????
Which culture influence is to blame?
Did this sound like a good argument in your head before you wrote it out?
You gotta wonder....
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yah why take this time to argue that we as North American's lazy and fat because we don't prepare our own food when you don't have the time to tie your own shoes so you buy slip ons and don't have time to log your food here and wonder why you can't loose weight????????? And if your way is sooooooooo good whatcha need to loose weight for?
Yup you gotta wonder :smokin:0 -
Then don't order the large?
Could people please stop trying to make all the drink sizes smaller? I drink unsweet tea and sometimes I need more than a swallow. They do sell things other than cokes.It always blows my mind when I go to get a burger at a fast food place, and I order the smallest one there, on it's own, but then want to share a "large" drink with my boyfriend - and the "large" drink is always twice the size that I think it's going to be (other than at a few select places).
No, it's a waste of money and it really annoys me. I just want a normal 8 oz of something. I don't want a 32 oz ANYTHING.0 -
Not to copy another person's post, but did this sound like a good argument in your head before you wrote it out?
You deny any sort of cultural influence on obesity. To support this, you use the example of a cultural that has strong cultural influences towards obesity. :huh:
Then, since we don't have that particular cultural influence (which might be up for argument, actually), you then hold that there can be no other cultural influences that cause similar pressures?:noway:
Read / Digest/ comprehend/respond
Or, in the case of your posts, "try to discern some meaning from what was written"/say to myself, "did she really just type that?"/try to comprehend how someone could seriously write that/respond in as nice a way as possible, given the absolute abuse of logic that occurred in the original post....what I said was NORTH AMERICAN CULTURE is not responsible for it's rampant obesity...our culture is setup to hate obesity, make fun of it, poke it, make it pay more for cloths, or two plane tickets and all around be disgusted by it and always has been.
Ohhh, now that you wrote it IN ALL CAPS AND BOLD, it makes sense. I didn't realize that each culture has only one influence. Thanks for clearing that up for me.Culture is defined as
the sum of total of the learned behavior of a group of people that are generally considered to be the tradition of that people and are transmitted from generation to generation.
Culture is a collective programming of the mind that distinguishes the members of one group or category of people from another.
I'm assuming this is the "thing I quickly googled" section of the post. Most humorous, given that it contradicts your point -- it's the sum total of learned behavior for a group. That's generally more than one influence.0 -
You could also say that our culture is set up for overspending...we have a lot of consumer goods and lots of fairly easy credit.
Nice try but hardly the same thing.
You do not have fight through financial and time constraints to curb overspending.
On the contrary, simply choosing to not overspend will help with time and financial constraints.
It also helps to elimimate eating out at restaurants.
True that... Now, this is not our greatest moment I freely admit... but the last month (out of pure laziness) we spent OVER $600 on eating out, between my husband and I... Um... yeah... that was $600 that could have been spent somewhere else... it's not like we didn't have food in the house... We were "tired" and lazy... So as a result, we have no extra money (Thank the Dear Lord, that we have enough in our pantry and freezer right now) for the next two weeks... So over the weekend I was making baked oatmeal and planning our meals out so I can be prepared two+ days in advance so all I have to do is throw it in the oven when I get home or the slow cooker before I leave... it was a real kick in the *kitten* for us.
Tonight... Baked chicken breast... coat it with some olive oil, put a touch of salt and pepper (or whatever else you want on it) throw it in the oven for 40 minutes... Bam! You have a protein.0 -
it sure is, everyone is fat0
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Then don't order the large?
Could people please stop trying to make all the drink sizes smaller? I drink unsweet tea and sometimes I need more than a swallow. They do sell things other than cokes.It always blows my mind when I go to get a burger at a fast food place, and I order the smallest one there, on it's own, but then want to share a "large" drink with my boyfriend - and the "large" drink is always twice the size that I think it's going to be (other than at a few select places).
No, it's a waste of money and it really annoys me. I just want a normal 8 oz of something. I don't want a 32 oz ANYTHING.
Makes sense to me... most places have more than one size for a drink.0
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