eating to fuel your body (very long)

lilmissy2

Oh, had to add - yes proteins, fats and carbs do provide chemical energy but they also have other functions in the body... that is why I say this is not related to calories.

Ryhenblue

Thanks for the great post Banks. Looks like some people didn't understand what you wrote about exercise calories. The point is if you helped one person that was deciding if they should eat the extra 200 calories from exercise then you did what you intended.

SHBoss1673

Sigh... Thanks shygal for explaining what I was trying to say with the protein requirements. There are similar calculations for other macronutrients.

Banks, I'm a little insulted that you are implying that as a registered dietitian that I don't know the difference between macro and micronutrients :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Things aren't THAT different across the pond!!

Yes, protein has 4cal/g but this has nothing to do with calories! The problem is that when you try to eat a lower amount of calories you tend to cut things out (typically carbs but it varies) and yes, people will sometimes cut to below their requirements (which again, I remind you are not the same as the 'recommendations' for % of calories.

Lets go to your and shygals example - so she requires extra protein which you say is 150cals/day. Very few foods are pure protein so you would actually need a lot more cals to meet that amount of protein. But again, this isn't about calories, I'm just trying to explain it that way since that's what you keep relating it back to.

Here's the problem, MY POST was about calories, YOU decided to talk about macro percentages. I am not getting side tracked into the carb/fat/protein debate anymore because that's not what this post is about. So debate amongst yourselves but I'm no longer part of it. I already asked that this discussion stop. But you felt like you needed to continue for some reason. So I'll nicely ask again, don't post on this topic any more please, not on this thread. If you do, your discussion won't include me anymore.

callie365

Bump

jb_sweet_99

Bump to read later...

cardigirl

Thanks for the great post Banks. Looks like some people didn't understand what you wrote about exercise calories. The point is if you helped one person that was deciding if they should eat the extra 200 calories from exercise then you did what you intended.

Agreed.

DeeDeeLHF

Thanks Banks!

lilmissy2

Sorry I seem to have insulted you. As I have said before, I did disagree with ONE of the things you said about calories. Other than that I congratulated you on a great post. The rest of the discussion was actually fueled by you disagreeing with me and for some reason unknown to me, trying to prove my one point wrong.

Sorry! I guess I thought we were all entitled to discuss bits and pieces posted by people around here :ohwell:

pressica

bump

jennmcpherson

Bump

cardigirl

Bumping to the top!

hiddensecant

bump again

hiddensecant

Why do people use their exercise calories as an excuse to eat junk and then claim it doesn't work? :grumble:

SHBoss1673

Why do people use their exercise calories as an excuse to eat junk and then claim it doesn't work? :grumble:

why is the sky blue? Everyone has their own moment of revelation with regards to food. Some have hit it, some haven't yet. Everyone wants to be attractive and healthy (I would hope), but some people just haven't yet reached the conclusion that it takes hard work to do so. Until they do, no amount of information will really help them.

I'm not a believer in the idea that you have to hit rock bottom to reach that point. I, for one, didn't. The epiphany moment can be as simple as watching an old home movie or seeing an old picture, or it can be as complicated as watching a family member struggle and fail with severe type 2 diabetes or atherosclerosis. It's different for everyone.

For me, it took a long time to transition through what I call the "three stages on the road to good health". These are the stages that I've gone through and see others go through AFTER you have your realization.
Stage 1: realization - You have an "awakening" to the fact that your lifestyle and body are unhealthy and you need to change.
Stage 2: selfishness - You work towards becoming healthy. Friends come and go in this stage, and your emotions will swing on many occasions between self-empowerment and anger with every emotion under the sun in between.
Stage 3: community - You've reached most of your major goals, and now work on minor ones, you no longer feel conflicted about your loss of weight and improved health, and you are mentally strong enough and confident enough to try to help others.

IMHO, none of these rolls are distinct and separate for everyone. Many people have crossover periods, this has a lot to do with their history and support groups. Someone could be experiencing parts of two of the 3 rolls (and rarely parts of all 3) at the same time, but over time this is what I've observed with myself and my wife and many friends I've found on MFP.

what you are talking about ghanie is people who haven't yet hit stage 1 and somewhere (I suspect) in their psyche is the denial of what they need, hampering their concious mind from taking the steps they need to take in order to truely succeed. I feel that almost everyone (barring physical medical issues) that tries and fails with weight loss and becoming healthy is at this stage. Whether they believe it or not. And anything they do to try to minimize the work needed to succeed is a doubt or fear buried deep (or not so deep) in their mind, a defense mechanism if you will.

That enough psychobable for everyone?

These are just observations and don't come from any book or anything. Feel free to discuss, I'm always interested in opinions on this. I'm sure there's plenty of stuff in this concept that I haven't thought of.

SHBoss1673

FYI, this is why I'm not a big "motivator" with regards to replying to threads here on MFP. You may think I don't congratulate many on here, but I consciously don't do it because I feel that someone who requires external influence may not be ready yet to fully commit to the concept of overall health. That doesn't diminish them in any way in my eyes, and sometimes my brain screams "HELP that person you cold son-of-a-*****" but I'm pretty focused in my life and can get over the soft love concept. I recognize the positive effect of compliments, and sometimes, when I feel it's really warranted, I'll give them, but I'm more inclined to help people when they make an effort to reach out, which is a sign that they are closer to the first or second stages and are truly ready to be helped.

This may sound harsh, but it's my belief system, and it's worked for me.

gibbsgirl

I have a question. If i want to lose 1 pound per week, then I have to eat 500 cals less per day... I know that. But my BMR is 1378. So I can't deduct 500 cals a day from that. So I assumed I could just lower my cals to 1200 a day, then try to burn close to 400 a day. But if I eat those exercise calories, will I lose any weight?

I'm sorry. I'm just a tad frustrated, lol.

alantin

LoL
What's up with the "why should I eat the exercise calories, I worked so hard to burn them" attitude? Why don't people realize that they are shooting their progress in the leg with running half a marathon a week and eating three beans a day?

Sorry! Couldn't resist! These are just a few frustrations that I have been feeling lately and I felt like joining the complaining club! :laugh:

DeeDeeLHF

Why do people use their exercise calories as an excuse to eat junk and then claim it doesn't work? :grumble:

why is the sky blue? Everyone has their own moment of revelation with regards to food. Some have hit it, some haven't yet. Everyone wants to be attractive and healthy (I would hope), but some people just haven't yet reached the conclusion that it takes hard work to do so. Until they do, no amount of information will really help them.

I'm not a believer in the idea that you have to hit rock bottom to reach that point. I, for one, didn't. The epiphany moment can be as simple as watching an old home movie or seeing an old picture, or it can be as complicated as watching a family member struggle and fail with severe type 2 diabetes or atherosclerosis. It's different for everyone.

For me, it took a long time to transition through what I call the "three stages on the road to good health". These are the stages that I've gone through and see others go through AFTER you have your realization.
Stage 1: realization - You have an "awakening" to the fact that your lifestyle and body are unhealthy and you need to change.
Stage 2: selfishness - You work towards becoming healthy. Friends come and go in this stage, and your emotions will swing on many occasions between self-empowerment and anger with every emotion under the sun in between.
Stage 3: community - You've reached most of your major goals, and now work on minor ones, you no longer feel conflicted about your loss of weight and improved health, and you are mentally strong enough and confident enough to try to help others.

IMHO, none of these rolls are distinct and separate for everyone. Many people have crossover periods, this has a lot to do with their history and support groups. Someone could be experiencing parts of two of the 3 rolls (and rarely parts of all 3) at the same time, but over time this is what I've observed with myself and my wife and many friends I've found on MFP.

what you are talking about ghanie is people who haven't yet hit stage 1 and somewhere (I suspect) in their psyche is the denial of what they need, hampering their concious mind from taking the steps they need to take in order to truely succeed. I feel that almost everyone (barring physical medical issues) that tries and fails with weight loss and becoming healthy is at this stage. Whether they believe it or not. And anything they do to try to minimize the work needed to succeed is a doubt or fear buried deep (or not so deep) in their mind, a defense mechanism if you will.

That enough psychobable for everyone?

These are just observations and don't come from any book or anything. Feel free to discuss, I'm always interested in opinions on this. I'm sure there's plenty of stuff in this concept that I haven't thought of.

I agree ghana, I am a firm believer in that it isn't just how much you eat (calories) but what you eat! A bad day at a picnic isn't going to make a big difference but eating a steady diet of sugars and processed foods will, even if you stick to your calorie goals!! Sure, you might still lose weight but you will feel like garbage! As for me? My experience has been that i DO NOT lose weight eating garbage, even if I am under calories.

Thanks, Banks for this addition. For two months now I have been feeling "selfish" and have just told family and friends that this is my selfish phase. My mom (who lives with us) keeps making comments about my wanting to lose a bit more and implying that I am becoming anorexic and her big one is how exercise can become an addiction, etc. I resigned from two committees that required a lot of my time and attention because I can't do it all, and right now, I want to do this! I want to lose those last few pounds. I want to have the time to cook and not rely on the McDonald's corporation to feed my family because I am so busy! I want to incorporate the time necessary to be strong and fit! Simply losing weight did not give me a body to be happy with but the exercise is getting me close to where I want to be. At 46, I may never be hot, but I at least want to feel good in my skin!

Every educational post that you put up here is motivation! Thanks for sharing what you have learned!!!

D

SHBoss1673

I have a question. If i want to lose 1 pound per week, then I have to eat 500 cals less per day... I know that. But my BMR is 1378. So I can't deduct 500 cals a day from that. So I assumed I could just lower my cals to 1200 a day, then try to burn close to 400 a day. But if I eat those exercise calories, will I lose any weight?

I'm sorry. I'm just a tad frustrated, lol.

I do believe you're conception of what BMR is, is a bit off. BMR really shouldn't be factored in to deficits except when talking about staying above it if you are looking to lose small amounts. What you should be basing weight loss on is your TDEE. TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) is essentially the total calories your body burns in a day. BMR is simply a general description of the amount of calories required to keep your body working, it does not include activity or the thermic effect of food (both contributors to TDEE).

gibbsgirl

oooookaaaay. So I did a tdee calculator and it says 2220 calories. So I'm supposed to eat 500 less than that a day. MFP has me at 1200 so I guess that's fo an approximate 2 pounds a week loss. That makes much more sense. Thanks!

SHBoss1673

oooookaaaay. So I did a tdee calculator and it says 2220 calories. So I'm supposed to eat 500 less than that a day. MFP has me at 1200 so I guess that's fo an approximate 2 pounds a week loss. That makes much more sense. Thanks!

:drinker:

amy1612

Have to agree with the "using exercise calories as an excuse to eat junk" as daft.
When I returned from the gym last night I was absolutely ravenous. I'd had a low cal sandwich for dinner (not ideal,but its what was available). I needed to eat something but wanted something healthy...so I had some mixed veggies on a small tortilla wrap. I sometimes use my exercise calories to justify that extra glass of wine,etc,but I dont feel guilty (or wrong) doing so when I know I eat well and avoid junk the rest of the time
I just cant understand the mindset of "Well ive done an hours exercise,I deserve a tub of ice cream now."

hiddensecant

Haha, I was looking for an excuse to bump the thread by saying more than bump. :devil: But I'm glad I mentioned it ... look at how many bumps followed, haha. And hey, I'm all for using extra cals as a treat once in a while, just not ALL the time. And of course, doing that and blaming the exercise calories for not losing weight? Puh-lease ... sustaining fuel, not yummy treat; focus on making the muscles happy rather than your tummy and you might find less tummy to go around!

My mom (who lives with us) keeps making comments about my wanting to lose a bit more and implying that I am becoming anorexic and her big one is how exercise can become an addiction, etc.

I'm addicted to exercise ... nothing wrong with that :bigsmile:. It's probably the best affliction someone can accuse me of. And you can always show her your food diary (especially on exercise days) to prove you're not anorexic. I know I've never seen an anorexic eat all their exercise calories!

alantin

I'm addicted to exercise ... nothing wrong with that :bigsmile:. It's probably the best affliction someone can accuse me of. And you can always show her your food diary (especially on exercise days) to prove you're not anorexic. I know I've never seen an anorexic eat all their exercise calories!

LoL
That might just make them call you psychotic instead..
logging your food seems to be a pretty frightening idea for some people. :laugh:

iwatts

bump

amy1612

I'm addicted to exercise ... nothing wrong with that :bigsmile:. It's probably the best affliction someone can accuse me of. And you can always show her your food diary (especially on exercise days) to prove you're not anorexic. I know I've never seen an anorexic eat all their exercise calories!

Im addicted too . My grandma was asking me over the phone the other day if I was addicted,and warning me of the dangers, and I said to her "The only people who see exercising alot as a bad thing are those who don't want to". Working out makes me really happy,and that can only be a good thing

BlueLikeJazz

Great post, this helped me to "get it" regarding exercise calories.

Is there a post where you (Banks) give your thoughts and some science behind whether or not eating, say, half your exercise calories each day then "saving" the rest for weekends works? Or does it all kind of fall under this category of only being able to burn between 0-1000 cals of body fat a day? I've seen a lot of people discouraging it here but it, in a similar form, is encouraged in other circles as "refeeding." Is it that refeeding is really only for the already fairly fit, like body-builders or runners who are still trying to lose some fat, or those on low-carb diets?

I'm still coming off the old Weight Watchers mentality of having an allotted extra amount of points that you could use throughout the week, at any time, that I was used to saving on weekends. I just count calories now (since that's all WW really is lol) but I keep seeing mixed opinions on saving calories for the weekend, but have yet to find a post that gives real science behind it.

If anyone has a link regarding this, please share

SHBoss1673

Great post, this helped me to "get it" regarding exercise calories.

Is there a post where you (Banks) give your thoughts and some science behind whether or not eating, say, half your exercise calories each day then "saving" the rest for weekends works? Or does it all kind of fall under this category of only being able to burn between 0-1000 cals of body fat a day? I've seen a lot of people discouraging it here but it, in a similar form, is encouraged in other circles as "refeeding." Is it that refeeding is really only for the already fairly fit, like body-builders or runners who are still trying to lose some fat, or those on low-carb diets?

I'm still coming off the old Weight Watchers mentality of having an allotted extra amount of points that you could use throughout the week, at any time, that I was used to saving on weekends. I just count calories now (since that's all WW really is lol) but I keep seeing mixed opinions on saving calories for the weekend, but have yet to find a post that gives real science behind it.

If anyone has a link regarding this, please share

I'm not a big fan of banking calories. It's possible to extend your calories over maybe 48 hours, but that's only in the case of slow digesting foods, and definitely doesn't hold true for longer. It's a slippery slope in my opinion. I usually warn people against it, definitely not more than a couple hundred if you're going to do that.

I'm ok with calorie cycling, but only if your "low point" calories is still great enough to keep you within respectable range of normal, and only if you're fairly consistent about eating more calories every second or third day.

hiddensecant

I don't bank my calories, but I do have one day where I let myself be lax about what I eat, when I eat, and how I eat it, hehe. It's not a day of gluttony or anything, but I do let myself eat up to maintenance plus some change. There's no science but I am being more restrictive these days and I find that it helps to be less restrictive one day out of the week.

BlueLikeJazz

Thanks for the input, Banks. I agree with the idea that it becomes a slippery slope. I've found it hard to kick my butt back in gear after a weekend of goodies, whether the calories are "saved up" for them or not.

I don't bank my calories, but I do have one day where I let myself be lax about what I eat, when I eat, and how I eat it, hehe. It's not a day of gluttony or anything, but I do let myself eat up to maintenance plus some change. There's no science but I am being more restrictive these days and I find that it helps to be less restrictive one day out of the week.

This makes total sense to me, to have a maintenance day once a week. I've gotten so use to eating 1200 calories (or less) a day that I start feeling bad for going over that, and I think that's why I feel like I need to save up calories throughout the week so I can be a little lax on the weekend. If I view it as a maintenance day, with the realization that I may not lose a whole 2 lbs that week (but that's okay!), it might help me to eat how much I'm supposed to during the week instead of trying to save up. I think the concept of having a maintenance day is much more in line with incorporating healthy living as a lifestyle instead of a diet.