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When I can't help........
ninerbuff
Posts: 48,988 Member
in Debate Club
I've dealt with this before on a couple of occasions in other gyms I've worked at, but we recently added a new member to our gym who was seeking help apparently. Anyway long story short, since she's joined, there's nothing I can do to help her. Let me explain:
This new member has an eating disorder. She's approximately 5'1" and 69lbs. When she joined she was paired up with one of our new trainers. The trainer did the RIGHT thing and told her that she couldn't use her training sessions until she saw at least a 5lbs weight gain on her next visit. Well the girl refused to weigh in the next visit and said she would nix the training sessions until she was ready on her own. But since that time, she's been coming in 2 times a day and working out for about an hour each time. No cardio, but lots of lifting with high reps.
There's nothing I or staff can do to stop her. The line is so fine here. Making suggestions are okay, but I haven't yet found a person with this disorder who complies. And until she actually injures herself or faints, etc., we can't stop her from coming in and working out on her own. Especially since what's she's doing is in good form and she doesn't look like she's exhausting herself.
But we know fully that this is how she's compensating for anything she's eating. I'm guessing she's not consuming more than 500 calories a day max.
I know there will be feedback on this, so maybe someone can give some input and possibly give me insight on what we may be able to do to help her curtail her behavior.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This new member has an eating disorder. She's approximately 5'1" and 69lbs. When she joined she was paired up with one of our new trainers. The trainer did the RIGHT thing and told her that she couldn't use her training sessions until she saw at least a 5lbs weight gain on her next visit. Well the girl refused to weigh in the next visit and said she would nix the training sessions until she was ready on her own. But since that time, she's been coming in 2 times a day and working out for about an hour each time. No cardio, but lots of lifting with high reps.
There's nothing I or staff can do to stop her. The line is so fine here. Making suggestions are okay, but I haven't yet found a person with this disorder who complies. And until she actually injures herself or faints, etc., we can't stop her from coming in and working out on her own. Especially since what's she's doing is in good form and she doesn't look like she's exhausting herself.
But we know fully that this is how she's compensating for anything she's eating. I'm guessing she's not consuming more than 500 calories a day max.
I know there will be feedback on this, so maybe someone can give some input and possibly give me insight on what we may be able to do to help her curtail her behavior.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
20
Replies
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It sounds like from her response to needing to show proof of gaining weight she knows what's up, and knows the state she's in probably.
Which means it's down to her being at a point where she sees the need for a change.
She may not have a circle of friends or family that are willing to tell her, or she does and they have and realize it does no good.
Would a member of the staff possibly have dealt with that in their own past, or helping a family member?
I'm guessing not since you all talked (unless someone didn't want to mention it).
Whether a compassionate ear or someone that dealt with it - was thinking of the approach of a kindly private conversation about wanting her to benefit most from the gym to reach her goals, and overall benefits of healthy body, cardiovascular system, and even mind due to exercise.
But to be able to actually have those good benefits, the body can't be abused (or whatever word is best) or it'll just break down, and injury will ultimately give it the rest it wants.
Other help that came to mind is the physical setup around her for when she takes that nose dive doing something that finally makes her pass out, and what her face is going to impact.
Talk about another hit to body image when that eventually happens.
3 -
Have you considered reaching out to Social Services? She probably needs to be hospitalized...most likely against her will.
It seems like the gym might find itself in legal trouble if she gets hurt.
What does your gym's attorney say?7 -
Doesn't the gym reserve the right to refuse service to anyone like most places?
But, yeah, definitely talk to the gym's attorney.10 -
+1 suggestion to check with the gym's attorney. Surely there's a hold-harmless/assumption of risk clause somewhere in whatever paperwork she signed when she joined, so if when she does injure herself on your property, you're probably covered from that angle, at least. See what the contract also says about what you're allowed to do vis-à-vis denial of service, communicating with her emergency contact (if you keep that info on file, I can't imagine a gym that wouldn't). You may not be allowed to call that person and explain your concerns unless and until she does experience an emergency, but they would be better-positioned to get her the help she needs than you or the other staff at the gym.
I also think it's worth looking into how an involuntary psychiatric hold works in your area, if it's a thing - Florida has the Baker Act, I don't know offhand if it would apply in this case if you were here, or what the laws are like in other states. But, look into it - learn the criteria for invoking whatever law(s) govern such situations, what happens when you do so, and what your responsibilities and obligations are as an adult concerned about a fellow, unrelated adult.5 -
So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
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So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
A 5'1" adult human who weighs 69 lbs IS clinically underweight, his opinion doesn't enter into it.17 -
goal06082021 wrote: »So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
A 5'1" adult human who weighs 69 lbs IS clinically underweight, his opinion doesn't enter into it.
Oh, I agree. Some on here would not.2 -
Unfortunately it’s very similar to being a bartender when a regular customer comes in that you know is an alcoholic.
They have to want to be helped. Which necessitates them acknowledging they have a problem. Which is likely not going to be something you can do by yourself.
X 2 about getting the gym’s lawyer involved.
And, I’m new here so I don’t know how big your gym is. Is there any chance you have a psychologist on staff? Someone familiar with eating disorders?
And, me being kind of sneaky, I’d look for posters about how to eat safely. Warning signs for eating disorders - include male and female if you can. That sort of thing. And I’d put them up in the bathroom stalls.
I think the registered dietitian at your local hospital might be able to help you find posters and literature to post in likely areas.
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We aren't responsible for people overexersizing ON THEIR OWN. It's different if they were in a class or session. Which is why the trainer is refusing to train her at all until she shows she can gain weight.cmriverside wrote: »Have you considered reaching out to Social Services? She probably needs to be hospitalized...most likely against her will.
It seems like the gym might find itself in legal trouble if she gets hurt.
What does your gym's attorney say?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
5 -
The comparison between not telling people to eat a sandwich or commenting on how their body looks in another thread vs : 'clinically underweight, presents health, safety, and legal risks to an organization' is kind of wild.
Also complete and total bs.
If someone in the gym tells her she's too ugly to be there or calls her a stick insect, we'll talk about similarities. As it stands it's not there because this woman is in danger and tried to hire a trainer to help her self-harm then dodged around the attempt for safety/mitigation by said professional.
You want to go back and find an analogy for debate, should dining establishments be allowed to deny service to super morbidly obese patients who try to order cheesecakes might be closer to what this is.
But there's nothing here on par with 'don't comment on other people's aesthetic appearances'. "You're going to die and I don't want to help you or be liable for it" is... not that.
4 -
Gyms have a right to ban anyone. In college my sister was banned from our hot yoga studio because she was underweight. (She was only 20lb underweight, so less than this woman) I thought it was VERY wrong for them to do since they had no clue about her history/health/etc. She did not look emaciated.
But this woman with a BMI of 13 must look scary thin and I do think it would be right. If I was a gym owner, I would have to talk with her and ask her to provide a doctors note for clearance just to save my own butt in case something happens.
Also 69lb is very specific number, how did you come up with that instead of saying like 70lb? Did she say her weight or use the scales there? I find it interesting how you guessed 69 right off the bat like that and just wondering where you got the number from.4 -
No she let us weigh her initially. She just refused to check in again after being asked to gain 5lbs.Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »Gyms have a right to ban anyone. In college my sister was banned from our hot yoga studio because she was underweight. (She was only 20lb underweight, so less than this woman) I thought it was VERY wrong for them to do since they had no clue about her history/health/etc. She did not look emaciated.
But this woman with a BMI of 13 must look scary thin and I do think it would be right. If I was a gym owner, I would have to talk with her and ask her to provide a doctors note for clearance just to save my own butt in case something happens.
Also 69lb is very specific number, how did you come up with that instead of saying like 70lb? Did she say her weight or use the scales there? I find it interesting how you guessed 69 right off the bat like that and just wondering where you got the number from.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
8 -
No she let us weigh her initially. She just refused to check in again after being asked to gain 5lbs.Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »Gyms have a right to ban anyone. In college my sister was banned from our hot yoga studio because she was underweight. (She was only 20lb underweight, so less than this woman) I thought it was VERY wrong for them to do since they had no clue about her history/health/etc. She did not look emaciated.
But this woman with a BMI of 13 must look scary thin and I do think it would be right. If I was a gym owner, I would have to talk with her and ask her to provide a doctors note for clearance just to save my own butt in case something happens.
Also 69lb is very specific number, how did you come up with that instead of saying like 70lb? Did she say her weight or use the scales there? I find it interesting how you guessed 69 right off the bat like that and just wondering where you got the number from.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ohhh okay sorry I missed that, I thought you were just guessing. Did you talk with the owners about it?1 -
Regional manager wants to talk to me more about it, but hasn't talked to me yet cause of the holiday.Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
No she let us weigh her initially. She just refused to check in again after being asked to gain 5lbs.Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »Gyms have a right to ban anyone. In college my sister was banned from our hot yoga studio because she was underweight. (She was only 20lb underweight, so less than this woman) I thought it was VERY wrong for them to do since they had no clue about her history/health/etc. She did not look emaciated.
But this woman with a BMI of 13 must look scary thin and I do think it would be right. If I was a gym owner, I would have to talk with her and ask her to provide a doctors note for clearance just to save my own butt in case something happens.
Also 69lb is very specific number, how did you come up with that instead of saying like 70lb? Did she say her weight or use the scales there? I find it interesting how you guessed 69 right off the bat like that and just wondering where you got the number from.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ohhh okay sorry I missed that, I thought you were just guessing. Did you talk with the owners about it?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
is it possible to agree to training, IF the training incorporated, say, a healthy protein shake during the workout? Part of training (as I recall from years ago when I worked with a trainer) ..is covering a whole-body wellness, including how to eat to best fuel muscles, fat loss, etc.
Not suggesting trying to force-feed or anything. But, if it were presented as, "working out requires fuel and if you would like to tone/build muscles, we can do that with this whey protein shake..(or whatever) during your training sessions so you'll see some results"
I don't know..but seems if her thoughts of food have turned into fear (leading her to under eat severely) .. introducing the notion that it is a "tool" for success might help?
editing to add: if this were possible, I'd not discuss it with her in terms of calories, or any other fearful words. I'd present the science, in terms like amino acids etc.2 -
So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
I don't think many got your sarcasm.
Even *I* got it and things fly over my head at the speed of light.
@ninerbuff, you've gotten great advice as far as legal advice, counselor, etc. I'm sure her family is beside themselves with worry over her health.
Any way you could get connected with them or does that violate privacy laws? Can you talk with the girl, offer her help or get her connected with the right resources? I almost think I'd try to anonymously contact the health department or someone and give them a 'what if' scenario to see what they could suggest. It sounds like she needs professional help and soon. The trouble with banning her or refusing training, it won't give her the help she obviously needs. As you've seen, she'll find ways to do what she feels she needs to anyways. 3 -
So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
I don't think many got your sarcasm.
Even *I* got it and things fly over my head at the speed of light.
Ohhhhh I got it, too.
But I'm totally with @Noreenmarie1234 on that doctor's note if she can't be banned. People are sue happy and don't think anything of doing something stupid and then trying to get a payday out of it.
2 -
MerryFit519 wrote: »is it possible to agree to training, IF the training incorporated, say, a healthy protein shake during the workout? Part of training (as I recall from years ago when I worked with a trainer) ..is covering a whole-body wellness, including how to eat to best fuel muscles, fat loss, etc.
Not suggesting trying to force-feed or anything. But, if it were presented as, "working out requires fuel and if you would like to tone/build muscles, we can do that with this whey protein shake..(or whatever) during your training sessions so you'll see some results"
I don't know..but seems if her thoughts of food have turned into fear (leading her to under eat severely) .. introducing the notion that it is a "tool" for success might help?
editing to add: if this were possible, I'd not discuss it with her in terms of calories, or any other fearful words. I'd present the science, in terms like amino acids etc.
If the gym were able to do this, they would have to watch for the underweight person to be sure they didn’t immediately go throw up the protein shake.
In fact, it might be too much all at once and the person might throw it up spontaneously anyhow.0 -
There was a lady who posted on the 'heavy lifting made me bulky' thread, who had an eating disorder and said lifting saved her life. She hasn't been on the forums since 2019 unfortunately and didn't go into detail so I'm not sure how helpful that will be.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/43682850#Comment_43682850
If a doctor signed this member off as fit to train, maybe training her to lift heavy could lead to her realising she needs to give her body more fuel to get results? I am making an assumption, but if she's lifting rather than cardio, I figure she's wanting to "tone up" rather than lose more weight. There is another assumption, that if a trainer said 'do XYZ' and she felt like it wasn't enough, that she wouldn't simply spend another hour in the gym afterwards.1 -
We obviously don't think like a person with an eating disorder does. Realistically, if one is trying to put on weight, they HAVE to eat more than they burn. And a person who has an eating disorder is the opposite of that thinking. Body dysmorphia is another issue. I have no idea how long this has been a habitual behavior for her or even if any other drugs (laxatives, crank, etc.) are involved which would exacerbate the issue.MerryFit519 wrote: »is it possible to agree to training, IF the training incorporated, say, a healthy protein shake during the workout? Part of training (as I recall from years ago when I worked with a trainer) ..is covering a whole-body wellness, including how to eat to best fuel muscles, fat loss, etc.
Not suggesting trying to force-feed or anything. But, if it were presented as, "working out requires fuel and if you would like to tone/build muscles, we can do that with this whey protein shake..(or whatever) during your training sessions so you'll see some results"
I don't know..but seems if her thoughts of food have turned into fear (leading her to under eat severely) .. introducing the notion that it is a "tool" for success might help?
editing to add: if this were possible, I'd not discuss it with her in terms of calories, or any other fearful words. I'd present the science, in terms like amino acids etc.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
Yeah, having gone through this before (in VA), it's an issue of discrimination and in CA I'm sure it would be a harder legal battle if we took the wrong direction on this. It's ONE thing if the person comes up to me and asks a question, and other thing if I interject with my opinion on someone's training habits. Sure most would take it to heart and know that I have their best interests at heart, but with someone like this, they can take that advice as singling them out (which I would be) and deterring them of their right to train the way they wish too. I'm supposed to talk to my regional manager today about it. We'll see.So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
I don't think many got your sarcasm.
Even *I* got it and things fly over my head at the speed of light.
@ninerbuff, you've gotten great advice as far as legal advice, counselor, etc. I'm sure her family is beside themselves with worry over her health. Any way you could get connected with them or does that violate privacy laws? Can you talk with the girl, offer her help or get her connected with the right resources? I almost think I'd try to anonymously contact the health department or someone and give them a 'what if' scenario to see what they could suggest. It sounds like she needs professional help and soon. The trouble with banning her or refusing training, it won't give her the help she obviously needs. As you've seen, she'll find ways to do what she feels she needs to anyways.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
So, basically, you think she needs to eat a sammich. There is a whole other thread going on about this right now.
From what I read in the other thread "Body Shaming", you should be ashamed that you feel this way, you should accept the fact that she likes her body the way it is, and should train her the way she wants to be trained. The way I see it, refusing to train her is body shaming her because she is, in YOUR opinion, underweight. It is not your place to say or think negative thoughts about anyone because of their body.
(trying real hard here, but I can't seem to find the sarcasm font.)
Eight disagrees to a post clearly labeled as sarcasm.
Hit Dog Hollers syndrome. I love it.3 -
MerryFit519 wrote: »is it possible to agree to training, IF the training incorporated, say, a healthy protein shake during the workout? Part of training (as I recall from years ago when I worked with a trainer) ..is covering a whole-body wellness, including how to eat to best fuel muscles, fat loss, etc.
Not suggesting trying to force-feed or anything. But, if it were presented as, "working out requires fuel and if you would like to tone/build muscles, we can do that with this whey protein shake..(or whatever) during your training sessions so you'll see some results"
I don't know..but seems if her thoughts of food have turned into fear (leading her to under eat severely) .. introducing the notion that it is a "tool" for success might help?
editing to add: if this were possible, I'd not discuss it with her in terms of calories, or any other fearful words. I'd present the science, in terms like amino acids etc.
It's beyond the scope of most trainer's certification to provide specific nutritional advice to a client which telling them to drink a protein shake during a workout would be5 -
*waits impatiently to hear what the regional manager has to say.
I'm really wondering if there *is* anything that can be done...until something happens. In which case, it could have been prevented if only you could have done something!5 -
*waits impatiently to hear what the regional manager has to say.
I'm really wondering if there *is* anything that can be done...until something happens. In which case, it could have been prevented if only you could have done something!
It appears the person @ninerbuff is dealing with has some issues. No need to make him feel guilty. Face it, if the client was told they can't come back there isn't anything stopping her from going a on 20 mile run with minimal caloric intake.1 -
I think there is a tendency in all sorts of mental illnesses for people to believe if only someone - or them - can find or say the right thing that the person will understand and get better/be better.
It doesn't work that way.
It doesn't work that way when it's explaining to someone with an ED that they need more food (or drink protein to grow muscle) than it does telling someone with anxiety to calm down there's nothing to be afraid of, or telling someone with depression to cheer up, their life is pretty good.
And it DEFINITELY doesn't work that way coming from a stranger in a gym.
12 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »*waits impatiently to hear what the regional manager has to say.
I'm really wondering if there *is* anything that can be done...until something happens. In which case, it could have been prevented if only you could have done something!
It appears the person @ninerbuff is dealing with has some issues. No need to make him feel guilty. Face it, if the client was told they can't come back there isn't anything stopping her from going a on 20 mile run with minimal caloric intake.
Uh, I wasn't trying to make him feel guilty. I meant "you" in the general sense.1 -
Well it's pretty much as I thought. If she wants to come in to work out on her own, there's nothing we can do to stop her unless she's performing an exercise that could be "physically dangerous" (IE like hanging upside down and doing crunches) or she faints and we have to attend to her.
Again a fine line as to what we can do without repercussion if she decides we are singleling her out due to her disorder. We have several "challenged" people here (I train a down syndrome kid and just got a new client who has special needs and has a chaperone) and to not address them the same way would be discrimination. So we're just stuck until she does something wrong in training or she actually comes to us and requests help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 9 -
Since she's new to the gym - she probably has no idea if you have new posters rotated around and added every once in awhile.
Time to start including a couple as someone suggested. Get that subliminal suggestion going.1 -
She new to our gym, but it's obvious this girl knows how to work out. She sets up her own station then checks her phone for workout. And once she puts her headset on, she's oblivious to her immediate surroundings. I watched her for like 10 minutes one time while on the floor and she never looked around once.Since she's new to the gym - she probably has no idea if you have new posters rotated around and added every once in awhile.
Time to start including a couple as someone suggested. Get that subliminal suggestion going.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2
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