Frozen Shoulder — Getting Back into Intensive Workouts
sladah10
Posts: 8 Member
I am recovering from a bad case of frozen shoulder. It started 10 months ago and was worst in early January when I could barely lift my arm. The nerve pain was awful and sleeping through the night was nearly impossible. After months of PT I’ve regained most of the ROM, I’m finally back to upper body workouts with dumbbells, push-ups, swimming 1200 yards at a time. Pretty much pushing the shoulder on both strength and flexibility. When I started doing hanging leg raises where I rest my entire body-weight on my elbows and forearms, i felt like I may have really aggravated the shoulder. So I’m going to cut that exercise out of my routine entirely, although that’s the best abdominal exercise I have. If anyone has experience with frozen shoulder recovery and how hard to push or not push as you get back into more intensive workouts please share your experience here. Thanks in advance! Sam
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Replies
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I've had a lot of shoulder issues (6 surgeries) it sucks. I'm sort of surprised the hanging bothers your shoulder as hanging is often recommended for shoulder health. Sample article:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-two-surprising-exercises-for-shoulder-health/
Are you doing actual hanging leg raises or leg raises using a roman chair something like this:
If using the roman chair I could see the pressure on the shoulders giving you pain. Try the leg raises hanging from a bar.
Also my personal favorite for abs/core is the ab wheel: https://athletesacceleration.com/anterior-core-training/
Good luck.
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I mostly stick to planks now for abs and ab machines at the gym. Not for the shoulder (though I've had a lot of shoulder issues over the years), but for my back. Stomach vacuums are also great. Basically like a crunch but not killing your back or neck.
When you do pushups, be careful and place your hands directly under your shoulders or even slightly lower.
If you aren't pulling enough, that makes a huge difference. Make sure the amount of pushing and pulling are similar. Years ago, when I wasn't doing much pulling (and tons of bench pressing), I had a lot of shoulder issues. Now, since I can't run any longer (bad knee), I mostly row on a rowing machine for cardio -- six days a week for an hour a day. With all that pulling now, I sometimes get shoulder pain if I'm not doing a ton of pushups (pushing) to compensate for all the pulling that I'm doing. I've found balancing those two, along with just hanging from a bar, at least a couple of times a week, helps immensely.
If I get too heavy on the DBs (recently had some shoulder pain as I was using 30 lb dumbbells on some lateral raises -- I've been lifting a long time). If I have some pain, I go back to mostly the lat pull machine or (slightly) assisted pullups. I'm getting too old to do a ton of unassisted pullups.
I also know a lot of folks that love the Body Blade. It's an amazing device created by a PT to use the small muscles in the shoulder. Great warmup device. If you don't want to buy one of those, then (I know it's a pain), use some Therabands and warm up those small muscles before you lift. I had a frozen shoulder once and that's all I did for like five months. It sucks to go to the gym and do that, so do yourself a favor and warm up those small muscles before it gets bad again.1 -
I baby my shoulders in order to keep being able to swim. In fact, I worked hard to improve my stroke, making it much easier on my shoulders. I had to go back to swim school to do it, but it worked! I also always do some breast and back stroke when I swim. A little backstroke at the end of the workout particularly helps with range of motion.
One little change I had to make was to stop doing side-planks. I used to love them for the obliques, but they hurt my shoulder. Incredibly, I've found that side-leg raises are even better (at sort of a 45 degree angle).1 -
I am recovering from a bad case of frozen shoulder. It started 10 months ago and was worst in early January when I could barely lift my arm. The nerve pain was awful and sleeping through the night was nearly impossible. After months of PT I’ve regained most of the ROM, I’m finally back to upper body workouts with dumbbells, push-ups, swimming 1200 yards at a time. Pretty much pushing the shoulder on both strength and flexibility. When I started doing hanging leg raises where I rest my entire body-weight on my elbows and forearms, i felt like I may have really aggravated the shoulder. So I’m going to cut that exercise out of my routine entirely, although that’s the best abdominal exercise I have. If anyone has experience with frozen shoulder recovery and how hard to push or not push as you get back into more intensive workouts please share your experience here. Thanks in advance! Sam
The tricky thing about a frozen shoulder is that it can take years to go through the entire process of freezing, being frozen, and thawing. It sounds like you’re on the upswing of it all! Keep working the ROM and the strength will eventually return!3 -
I've had one 10 years ago and it took one year to recover. I had a lot of extremely painful PT and I regained full mobility after roughly one year - but then again, I was also 10 years younger.
Now, I'm 16 months (it started with our first lockdown) in and it is slowly starting to thaw and the intense pains have subsided. PT wasn't even an option because of the intense pain, and after a lot of research and a good talk with a leading expert surgeon and a excellent sports therapist, the current view (as opposed to 10 years ago) is to avoid the pain as much as possible as every new tear in the encapsulated part will just lead to longer recovery time. Exercise as much as possible without feeling any pain or strain is the best advise. If you feel that a certain movement makes it worse (for me it's even driving a car for example), avoid it.
Yes, it takes time and yes it isn't pleasant to have to skip workouts, but remember that every new pang means a new tear that needs time to heal again.2 -
Antiopelle wrote: »I've had one 10 years ago and it took one year to recover. I had a lot of extremely painful PT and I regained full mobility after roughly one year - but then again, I was also 10 years younger.
Now, I'm 16 months (it started with our first lockdown) in and it is slowly starting to thaw and the intense pains have subsided. PT wasn't even an option because of the intense pain, and after a lot of research and a good talk with a leading expert surgeon and a excellent sports therapist, the current view (as opposed to 10 years ago) is to avoid the pain as much as possible as every new tear in the encapsulated part will just lead to longer recovery time. Exercise as much as possible without feeling any pain or strain is the best advise. If you feel that a certain movement makes it worse (for me it's even driving a car for example), avoid it.
Yes, it takes time and yes it isn't pleasant to have to skip workouts, but remember that every new pang means a new tear that needs time to heal again.
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.1 -
I've had it twice, once in each shoulder. I had a rough few months where I had it in both shoulders at once. I went to physical therapy. I did push it, but not too hard. Honestly, the most helpful exercise was spelling the alphabet with my arm extended (like I was writing in a big wall). I got more range of motion that way. One of my shoulders still has problems. My arms are still weak. For reference, I had it in my right arm starting in 2016 and it lasted about three years and then I got it in my left arm in 2019.1
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MikePfirrman wrote: »
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I don’t doubt that he’s good, whoever this guy is, but the average person isn’t a world class athlete. Every body is different and everyone recovers differently. You can’t generalize that this guy can fix a frozen shoulder in 2 sessions because he’s done it before. In general, it takes 12-42 months to resolve itself, and is spontaneous.4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »I've had one 10 years ago and it took one year to recover. I had a lot of extremely painful PT and I regained full mobility after roughly one year - but then again, I was also 10 years younger.
Now, I'm 16 months (it started with our first lockdown) in and it is slowly starting to thaw and the intense pains have subsided. PT wasn't even an option because of the intense pain, and after a lot of research and a good talk with a leading expert surgeon and a excellent sports therapist, the current view (as opposed to 10 years ago) is to avoid the pain as much as possible as every new tear in the encapsulated part will just lead to longer recovery time. Exercise as much as possible without feeling any pain or strain is the best advise. If you feel that a certain movement makes it worse (for me it's even driving a car for example), avoid it.
Yes, it takes time and yes it isn't pleasant to have to skip workouts, but remember that every new pang means a new tear that needs time to heal again.
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I'm convinced I got the right treatment and advice; both surgeon and PT I've talked to have their credentials speaking for them (also treating top athletes in basketball). They also said to move it as much as possible, but without pain. That is the boundary: if it hurts then you are tearing it again, prolonging the recovery. I hurt so much 10 years ago during PT - to the point of fainting and only afterwards I heard from several people that it would have subsided anyway, even without PT. Basically, both surgeon and the PT confirmed what I already suspected: patience over pain.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.
He is not a traditional PT. He's has around 15 licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy). He uses the Niel-Asher Technique, according to his website. But I've also been to many others that specialize in ART and can't do what he does. And this guy is barely even on the internet. He worked with the entire UK basketball team the year they won the National Championship and had like 6 NBA players. Word spread from there. He also worked with a Reds pitcher that had back issues for two years and got him back on the mound at a high level. After that, he didn't need to advertise or be on the internet.
What it comes down to is there are two veins of physical therapists. One for athletes and those that have a great deal of pain tolerance and those for everyone else.0 -
My PT was incredibly painful but I do believe it accelerated my recovery. In retrospect I’m glad I did it. I’ve stopped the hanging leg lifts. Shoulder is holding up as I’m still lifting, doing push-ups and I’m up to 1500 yards when I get in the pool. I’m still doing many of my home stretches I learned in PT if it feels sore. Thanks for all the comments here. Nice to have a sounding board to bounce ideas off…. Sam5
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.
He is not a traditional PT. He's has around 15 licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy). He uses the Niel-Asher Technique, according to his website. But I've also been to many others that specialize in ART and can't do what he does. And this guy is barely even on the internet. He worked with the entire UK basketball team the year they won the National Championship and had like 6 NBA players. Word spread from there. He also worked with a Reds pitcher that had back issues for two years and got him back on the mound at a high level. After that, he didn't need to advertise or be on the internet.
What it comes down to is there are two veins of physical therapists. One for athletes and those that have a great deal of pain tolerance and those for everyone else.
I'm going to agree with the last statement.
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.
Personally, I love this statement. A PT should be pushing you, but you also have to want to be pushed. A good PT knows how to help motivate their patient, but there are many who just don’t want to be worked harder.
The best patients are the ones who continue to work when no one is watching.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.
Personally, I love this statement. A PT should be pushing you, but you also have to want to be pushed. A good PT knows how to help motivate their patient, but there are many who just don’t want to be worked harder.
The best patients are the ones who continue to work when no one is watching.
Yep, my guy said unfortunately many do the exercises in the clinic and that's it. The real rehab happens in the time outside the clinic in most cases.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.
He is not a traditional PT. He's has around 15 licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy). He uses the Niel-Asher Technique, according to his website. But I've also been to many others that specialize in ART and can't do what he does. And this guy is barely even on the internet. He worked with the entire UK basketball team the year they won the National Championship and had like 6 NBA players. Word spread from there. He also worked with a Reds pitcher that had back issues for two years and got him back on the mound at a high level. After that, he didn't need to advertise or be on the internet.
What it comes down to is there are two veins of physical therapists. One for athletes and those that have a great deal of pain tolerance and those for everyone else.
I'm going to agree with the last statement.
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.
I had a shoulder repaired in 2019. My surgeon is the one for our local pro sports teams and I guess because I like to be athletic and was considered young he gave me a very aggressive rehab protocol. My PT would shake her head saying how can he expect this...I fell behind one week and then just made it my job to work at it and when I was going for my 3 month check up my PT sent me away saying he should be pleased.... he was and I got cleared to go back to all my sports (I had already given myself permission for one).
If you can tolerate an aggressive recovery protocol then it does make life way easier but you do have to be willing to work. No PT is a magician and can magically repair something in a couple of treatments...even for an athlete.4 -
In 2015 I got a horrible case of frozen shoulder. The physiatrist I was referred to *never* diagnosed it as frozen shoulder. He did however do dry needling, give me a bunch of antiinflammatories, do nerve testing (DO NOT RECOMMEND), and various other things before throwing his hands up and saying it’s fibro. 😳
I had an ortho appointment that same day and the PA took one look at it and told me it was the worst case of frozen shoulder he’d ever seen in someone in their 30s and non-diabetic. The cortisone shot he gave me was the first pain relief I’d had in over 9 months, and I definitely wasn’t moving it because the pain when I tried (from day 1) was excruciating…which of course made it worse. A second cortisone shot and a discussion about what they called a surgical manipulation after some PT sessions (to satisfy insurance) and I went from barely being able to get a cup of coffee to my mouth to having 75% ROM 2 days after the manipulation.
It took almost 2 years of weekly PT and daily exercises and stretches to get my arm strength even sort of back. Did you define your goals/needs to your PT? One of mine was to be able to heft 50# feed bags again. She gave me a number of strength training exercises to do in order to achieve that. Likely, a PT could suggest an alternate exercise to do what hanging leg raises do for you OR how to further strengthen/protect that shoulder so you can safely do the leg raises.
I also find doing the stretches I was given in PT whenever my shoulder starts acting sore or stiff really helps.
Frozen shoulder is freaking hellish. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone including my ex husband and that’s saying something. 😉1 -
I'm more or less free of real shoulder pain, I lived with it for many many years. I strongly suggest you get back to your physio for the best advice on how to keep the movement you have. If you repeat or recreate more damage to this complex, sensitive area, I fear you will have a similar experience to myself and no one deserves that. You needed proper advice on how much you should expect your shoulder movement to improve given how restricted you were. Its a great temptation to do too much.
The only thing which has got my neck, shoulders, upper back working properly and balanced has been regular acupuncture. Skeletal loss due to hypothyroidism, as well as orthopaedic team lifting of many persons over time contributed to my issues. Thinking how long its been, its way over 16 years because I could not lift a grandson that age and its was bad before that, now I can lift the 19 month old ggs easily, doing it infrequently as possibly in a child care situation. I even get the rising 4 year old out of the car playfully, like a cork from a bottle, but I still need top up acupuncture.
Please take great care of yourself.2 -
Alinouveau2 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.
He is not a traditional PT. He's has around 15 licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy). He uses the Niel-Asher Technique, according to his website. But I've also been to many others that specialize in ART and can't do what he does. And this guy is barely even on the internet. He worked with the entire UK basketball team the year they won the National Championship and had like 6 NBA players. Word spread from there. He also worked with a Reds pitcher that had back issues for two years and got him back on the mound at a high level. After that, he didn't need to advertise or be on the internet.
What it comes down to is there are two veins of physical therapists. One for athletes and those that have a great deal of pain tolerance and those for everyone else.
I'm going to agree with the last statement.
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.
I had a shoulder repaired in 2019. My surgeon is the one for our local pro sports teams and I guess because I like to be athletic and was considered young he gave me a very aggressive rehab protocol. My PT would shake her head saying how can he expect this...I fell behind one week and then just made it my job to work at it and when I was going for my 3 month check up my PT sent me away saying he should be pleased.... he was and I got cleared to go back to all my sports (I had already given myself permission for one).
If you can tolerate an aggressive recovery protocol then it does make life way easier but you do have to be willing to work. No PT is a magician and can magically repair something in a couple of treatments...even for an athlete.
And what I said is the guy I know unfreezes the shoulder. He doesn't fix it completely. He's a fascia specialist. But in order to rehab the shoulder, you first have to be able to move it and the shoulder joint is thickened and hard. That part of it is what he addresses and gets full ROM back in a couple of sessions. From there, it's still massive hard *kitten* work.
It's just a different approach to let's wait 6 months to a year for the shoulder to "unfreeze" on its own, which from what I was told, is what PTs seem to do now in a lot of cases in which the patient is pain intolerant. Again, which to me as someone that's had a severe frozen shoulder, seems absurd. It's assuming that there's no pain to leave the shoulder immobile. There's a ton of pain with an immobile shoulder when you sleep. You roll on it, you hit it. It's incredibly painful still. I'd rather go through one or two sessions of bad pain to make it mobile quicker than wait on it "thawing" for a year.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Alinouveau2 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.
He is not a traditional PT. He's has around 15 licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy). He uses the Niel-Asher Technique, according to his website. But I've also been to many others that specialize in ART and can't do what he does. And this guy is barely even on the internet. He worked with the entire UK basketball team the year they won the National Championship and had like 6 NBA players. Word spread from there. He also worked with a Reds pitcher that had back issues for two years and got him back on the mound at a high level. After that, he didn't need to advertise or be on the internet.
What it comes down to is there are two veins of physical therapists. One for athletes and those that have a great deal of pain tolerance and those for everyone else.
I'm going to agree with the last statement.
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.
I had a shoulder repaired in 2019. My surgeon is the one for our local pro sports teams and I guess because I like to be athletic and was considered young he gave me a very aggressive rehab protocol. My PT would shake her head saying how can he expect this...I fell behind one week and then just made it my job to work at it and when I was going for my 3 month check up my PT sent me away saying he should be pleased.... he was and I got cleared to go back to all my sports (I had already given myself permission for one).
If you can tolerate an aggressive recovery protocol then it does make life way easier but you do have to be willing to work. No PT is a magician and can magically repair something in a couple of treatments...even for an athlete.
And what I said is the guy I know unfreezes the shoulder. He doesn't fix it completely. He's a fascia specialist. But in order to rehab the shoulder, you first have to be able to move it and the shoulder joint is thickened and hard. That part of it is what he addresses and gets full ROM back in a couple of sessions. From there, it's still massive hard *kitten* work.
It's just a different approach to let's wait 6 months to a year for the shoulder to "unfreeze" on its own, which from what I was told, is what PTs seem to do now in a lot of cases in which the patient is pain intolerant. Again, which to me as someone that's had a severe frozen shoulder, seems absurd. It's assuming that there's no pain to leave the shoulder immobile. There's a ton of pain with an immobile shoulder when you sleep. You roll on it, you hit it. It's incredibly painful still. I'd rather go through one or two sessions of bad pain to make it mobile quicker than wait on it "thawing" for a year.
It depends on the phase you are in. In the hurtful phase (where you can't sleep at night because every little move wakes you up), you can get cortico-steriods infiltrations (not sure if that is a correct translation - English is not my first language) and they help a ton with pain if applied correctly. I don't think that the choice of PT or not, is taken on basis of the patient being pain intolerant or not as the manipulations can be done a few days after an infiltration, but rather on the healing capacity of the facia. I don't think that if you can take the pain, the whole ordeal will be over more rapidly.
In the third phase - the thaw - that's were PT can come in. In that phase the pain has subsided unless you push through. The latest studies (which I didn't read, but my surgeon did) show that if aggressive PT is used at that stage it actually doesn't guarantee a shorter recovery time, on the contrary. Given the experience that I had with the first one, and the confirmation of other patients and of the surgeon and the PT I spoke to, I'm glad to have taken the patience route. I now have enough ROM to basically do 80% of what I want to do, and I get around the other 20% with shortcuts (except planking and push-ups), but I don't have to spend hours in the PT's office every week, fearing I'll pass out.
In the end, every patient needs to find what works for them, as long as it is well informed.
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We agree on everything likely except the steroid/cortisone injections. I'm not a fan of those. One of those ruined my wife's foot permanently. She has foot pad atrophy caused by a bad cortisone injection when a doc was having a bad day.
I know they help some a lot. Actually, ironically, that's what got my wife started on her Fibromyalgia relief -- cortisone injections to free up her tender pain points. From there we were all natural relief but those got her through the early days.0 -
I have found increasing my potassium and magnesium to be very helpful. In addition to stretches I keep it warm throughout the night and reduce inflammation with Ginger daily.0
-
MikePfirrman wrote: »
And what I said is the guy I know unfreezes the shoulder. He doesn't fix it completely. He's a fascia specialist. But in order to rehab the shoulder, you first have to be able to move it and the shoulder joint is thickened and hard. That part of it is what he addresses and gets full ROM back in a couple of sessions. From there, it's still massive hard *kitten* work.
It's just a different approach to let's wait 6 months to a year for the shoulder to "unfreeze" on its own, which from what I was told, is what PTs seem to do now in a lot of cases in which the patient is pain intolerant. Again, which to me as someone that's had a severe frozen shoulder, seems absurd. It's assuming that there's no pain to leave the shoulder immobile. There's a ton of pain with an immobile shoulder when you sleep. You roll on it, you hit it. It's incredibly painful still. I'd rather go through one or two sessions of bad pain to make it mobile quicker than wait on it "thawing" for a year.
I’m sorry, but a frozen shoulder is not a fascia problem. You cannot fix a frozen shoulder by addressing fascia. There is a surgical procedure that can be done called “manipulation under anesthesia” where you can go to an orthopedic surgeon and they put you under, then forcibly move the arm through the complete ROM, but that’s done very rarely.
Protocol may vary based on the patient, PT and physician, but in the freezing stage all you can do is try to limit the impairment. In the frozen stage, do all you can to maintain your ROM, and in the thawing stage, as mentioned probably half a dozen times above in this thread, is where ROM can be restored and improved.
PTs work according to evidence based practice, and current evidence dictates frozen shoulder treatment as well as the timeline.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Alinouveau2 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
I find that odd advice. I know a guy that is a pretty famous Physical Therapist. He's worked out frozen shoulders in one or two sessions. But one of the things that makes it harder (according to him, at least) is lack of movement. The more someone doesn't move the shoulder, it seems the more "frozen" it gets. And this guy has worked on a ton of very famous athletes, including pros in football, baseball and basketball (like some of the top athletes in the world). To be honest, I don't trust everything surgeons say.
This guy, I'm referring to, has several licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy).
I’m in PT school right now, and learned about this recently. First off, every case is different. Secondly, it’s true that if you don’t move it, the more frozen it will become, however, once it’s frozen you can’t thaw it be the body has to go through the process on its own. In the thawing phase is where PT can do the most good, but even then you have to increase the ROM without causing damage. If someone can “work out” a frozen shoulder in a session or two then it wasn’t really a frozen shoulder.
I don't know of anyone else that can do what this guy can do. He has saved many careers, including a former Cy Young runner up (and starting pitcher in an All-Star game) and worked on an NBA MVP, as well as working on the guy that just won the Badwater 135. Everyone in the professional sports world knows of this guy. And what he does is very unique.
What I've learned about medical professionals is if they can't personally do it, it's "impossible". They keep the realm of possibility into whatever they personally can charge for.
I really can't believe nobody else can do what he does. I have gone to a very well known PT who is also a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. He sees clients (all the way from the pro/Olympic athletes to the regular Joe's) 3-4 days a week, he has an intern most of the time working with him, learning his methods
The other days he writes, does seminars, etc. passing on his methods. Can't believe the guy you're talking about is keeping his knowledge under a basket and not training others.
He is not a traditional PT. He's has around 15 licenses in ART (Active Release Therapy). He uses the Niel-Asher Technique, according to his website. But I've also been to many others that specialize in ART and can't do what he does. And this guy is barely even on the internet. He worked with the entire UK basketball team the year they won the National Championship and had like 6 NBA players. Word spread from there. He also worked with a Reds pitcher that had back issues for two years and got him back on the mound at a high level. After that, he didn't need to advertise or be on the internet.
What it comes down to is there are two veins of physical therapists. One for athletes and those that have a great deal of pain tolerance and those for everyone else.
I'm going to agree with the last statement.
I've had 6 shoulder operations and both thumb joints replaced, all by the same doctor and all using his in-house rehab facility. I was told by a friend before the first surgery to ask the PT to rehab you as close as they can to an athlete or someone whose career depended on the particular body part working well, i.e. screw the pain and be aggressive as you can with the rehab without doing harm.
I told this to the PT the first time and he said sure thing, let's get after this. He said he was quite a bit more aggressive with me than typical because pain didn't seem to bother me. Said my recovery as a 50+ year old was like the college athletes he worked with.
I had a shoulder repaired in 2019. My surgeon is the one for our local pro sports teams and I guess because I like to be athletic and was considered young he gave me a very aggressive rehab protocol. My PT would shake her head saying how can he expect this...I fell behind one week and then just made it my job to work at it and when I was going for my 3 month check up my PT sent me away saying he should be pleased.... he was and I got cleared to go back to all my sports (I had already given myself permission for one).
If you can tolerate an aggressive recovery protocol then it does make life way easier but you do have to be willing to work. No PT is a magician and can magically repair something in a couple of treatments...even for an athlete.
And what I said is the guy I know unfreezes the shoulder. He doesn't fix it completely. He's a fascia specialist. But in order to rehab the shoulder, you first have to be able to move it and the shoulder joint is thickened and hard. That part of it is what he addresses and gets full ROM back in a couple of sessions. From there, it's still massive hard *kitten* work.
It's just a different approach to let's wait 6 months to a year for the shoulder to "unfreeze" on its own, which from what I was told, is what PTs seem to do now in a lot of cases in which the patient is pain intolerant. Again, which to me as someone that's had a severe frozen shoulder, seems absurd. It's assuming that there's no pain to leave the shoulder immobile. There's a ton of pain with an immobile shoulder when you sleep. You roll on it, you hit it. It's incredibly painful still. I'd rather go through one or two sessions of bad pain to make it mobile quicker than wait on it "thawing" for a year.
Have you had frozen shoulder? I can't imagine how you could even work that out in one or two sessions. I had numerous (like 20+) incredibly painful sessions of massage, physio, and chiropractic - and it still took over a year (closer to two) to regain full mobility and be pain free. It's not "one or two sessions of bad pain" - like it is almost unbearable pain. Think of the worst pain you have ever experienced. I don't consider myself "pain intolerant", (I have delivered three 10 lb babies drug free, and had two herniated discs) but frozen shoulder is just on another level entirely.
I have heard of people being put under and having it "forced" free, but doing that awake? I don't see how that is possible.1 -
Sladah10...I saw your post and had to share with others what worked for me. I suffered from frozen shoulder issues for about a year. My shoulder was almost useless and I had incredible constant pain especially at night while trying to sleep. I went to specialists, had x-rays, cortisone shots and PT from Ortho-one in Columbus Ohio. ...and nothing worked to relieve the pain and movement issues.
Then I discovered shoulder exercises that used only stretch bands. After using very simple raising and lowering and outward movements using bands/resistance stretching techniques my shoulder finally started to relieve itself after about two weeks. I did about 15 minutes of stretching about 4 times a day. After about a month I had about 80% motion and about 25% normal strength and only moderate pain. After about two months of more band self therapy adding more more exercises I was making incredible gains in strength and almost had no pain!! I did mostly exercises i found on youtube for frozen shoulder. One program I found was actually called TB12 (Tom Brady evidently uses bands for strength training and has developed a program using only bands). I followed some of those range of motion techniques using just one stretchy band. The band I used was the Gaiam brand orange colored one similar to this one listed below. Crazy as this sounds this $12 stretch band saved my shoulder and my peace of mind as frozen shoulder is a mysteriously debilitating condition that is almost inexplicable and difficult to remedy by many experts in the field.
https://www.amazon.com/Gaiam-Resistance-Cord-Attachment-Heavy/dp/B01ICBQLLU/ref=sr_1_26?dchild=1&keywords=gaiam+stretch+band&qid=1628526930&sr=8-26
After about six months of band training and moderate weight training using dumbells and bench presses I am happy to say I am back to 100% and shoulder pain free. Another side note that I think may have helped remedy the shoulder issue may have been adjusting pillows and support during sleep. I added a 2" mattress pad and I started using memory foam pillows for proper head support and chest support as I am a side sleeper. Sleeping on your side can possibly pinch nerves in the shoulder depending on your arm position; this may have exacerbated my frozen shoulder issue or even caused it in the first place. Before going to sleep, I specifically place a pillow directly under my pectoral muscle and the upper rib cage area to relieve the pressure on the affected shoulder.
To maintain shoulder strength I continue to do the band exercises. in addition, I do hanging exercises from monkey bars or simply a pullup bar. I do about 10 minutes of assisted foreward grip pull ups and unassisted reverse grip pull ups. 3 sets total. I also do some modified yoga type stretches similar to "downward dog" where you actually are on all fours in a pushup position with the buttox pointing toward the ceiling then moving down to the cobra position. I do this about 10 times with some leg kicks and it keeps the shoulder blade area strong and stretched.
Good luck to all of those who are dealing with this frustrating condition. As stated by many each case is very different and will take time to resolve, Be patient,optimistic, and open minded as it can a combination of trying both physical and mental components to reverse and remedy the condition.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »
And what I said is the guy I know unfreezes the shoulder. He doesn't fix it completely. He's a fascia specialist. But in order to rehab the shoulder, you first have to be able to move it and the shoulder joint is thickened and hard. That part of it is what he addresses and gets full ROM back in a couple of sessions. From there, it's still massive hard *kitten* work.
It's just a different approach to let's wait 6 months to a year for the shoulder to "unfreeze" on its own, which from what I was told, is what PTs seem to do now in a lot of cases in which the patient is pain intolerant. Again, which to me as someone that's had a severe frozen shoulder, seems absurd. It's assuming that there's no pain to leave the shoulder immobile. There's a ton of pain with an immobile shoulder when you sleep. You roll on it, you hit it. It's incredibly painful still. I'd rather go through one or two sessions of bad pain to make it mobile quicker than wait on it "thawing" for a year.
I’m sorry, but a frozen shoulder is not a fascia problem. You cannot fix a frozen shoulder by addressing fascia. There is a surgical procedure that can be done called “manipulation under anesthesia” where you can go to an orthopedic surgeon and they put you under, then forcibly move the arm through the complete ROM, but that’s done very rarely.
Protocol may vary based on the patient, PT and physician, but in the freezing stage all you can do is try to limit the impairment. In the frozen stage, do all you can to maintain your ROM, and in the thawing stage, as mentioned probably half a dozen times above in this thread, is where ROM can be restored and improved.
PTs work according to evidence based practice, and current evidence dictates frozen shoulder treatment as well as the timeline.
This isn't the guy that I know, but it's a decent article. Not going to argue with you, but the guy I know goes to a large athletic conference every year and finds anyone he can find with frozen shoulders and works it until they get full ROM usually in a couple of hours.
https://stuart-hinds.com/blogs/performance-therapy/my-journey-with-the-nat
This is the same technique he uses. Again, just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »
This isn't the guy that I know, but it's a decent article. Not going to argue with you, but the guy I know goes to a large athletic conference every year and finds anyone he can find with frozen shoulders and works it until they get full ROM usually in a couple of hours.
https://stuart-hinds.com/blogs/performance-therapy/my-journey-with-the-nat
This is the same technique he uses. Again, just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Thanks for sharing the article. That’s an intriguing story. I’m still skeptical, especially since after you mentioned Niel Asher Technique, I spoke with one of my professors and he brought up that while people use it, there hasn’t been a lot of actual research done to support the treatments.
Like I said earlier, PT should be based on evidence based practice, but there’s also clinical judgment that must be used as well. If I see a patient with frozen shoulder, I may consider looking into this more.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
And what I said is the guy I know unfreezes the shoulder. He doesn't fix it completely. He's a fascia specialist. But in order to rehab the shoulder, you first have to be able to move it and the shoulder joint is thickened and hard. That part of it is what he addresses and gets full ROM back in a couple of sessions. From there, it's still massive hard *kitten* work.
It's just a different approach to let's wait 6 months to a year for the shoulder to "unfreeze" on its own, which from what I was told, is what PTs seem to do now in a lot of cases in which the patient is pain intolerant. Again, which to me as someone that's had a severe frozen shoulder, seems absurd. It's assuming that there's no pain to leave the shoulder immobile. There's a ton of pain with an immobile shoulder when you sleep. You roll on it, you hit it. It's incredibly painful still. I'd rather go through one or two sessions of bad pain to make it mobile quicker than wait on it "thawing" for a year.
I’m sorry, but a frozen shoulder is not a fascia problem. You cannot fix a frozen shoulder by addressing fascia. There is a surgical procedure that can be done called “manipulation under anesthesia” where you can go to an orthopedic surgeon and they put you under, then forcibly move the arm through the complete ROM, but that’s done very rarely.
Protocol may vary based on the patient, PT and physician, but in the freezing stage all you can do is try to limit the impairment. In the frozen stage, do all you can to maintain your ROM, and in the thawing stage, as mentioned probably half a dozen times above in this thread, is where ROM can be restored and improved.
PTs work according to evidence based practice, and current evidence dictates frozen shoulder treatment as well as the timeline.
This isn't the guy that I know, but it's a decent article. Not going to argue with you, but the guy I know goes to a large athletic conference every year and finds anyone he can find with frozen shoulders and works it until they get full ROM usually in a couple of hours.
https://stuart-hinds.com/blogs/performance-therapy/my-journey-with-the-nat
This is the same technique he uses. Again, just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I am really curious about this. Upthread you said that your guy can work out frozen shoulder in "one or two sessions", and here you are saying he gets full ROM in a couple of hours. But this article states that the original woman had some pain relief after four sessions, and that he treats frozen shoulder patients for "at least 10 sessions" (and how good it that been for his business.)
The article I can believe because the natural progression of frozen shoulder is that it gradually thaws and range of motion returns, so if you start treatment at that time in the process you are going to have an increase in ROM. So over 10 sessions you are going to get improvement.
Idk I don't want to argue either, but given my experience with frozen shoulder and just what I have learned about the physiology of it I don't understand how it is feasible to release the adhesion and scar tissue, and eliminate inflammation, in two hours. Like how is that physically possible? You literally have to tear the adhesion and physically stretch the capsule, which is why they do it under anaesthesia. I would wonder if these people being treated actually have full on frozen shoulder with adhesion.
The reason I wonder this is that when my second shoulder started to freeze I got it treated soon enough (with physio and cortisone shots) that it never got as bad as the first. I guess I would have been diagnosed with frozen shoulder in that one as well, and it was pretty painful, but it was NOT the same thing as first frozen shoulder I had with adhesion. That was almost unbearable bordering on "want to kill yourself" pain - at the worst of it I couldn't move my arm sideways even an inch away from my body.
1
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