Metabolism not affected by middle age!
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Well, I'm the big six-oh, and I can tell you that my metabolic rate goes all over the place. The evidence is that sometimes I'm hot, and sometimes I'm cold, all at the same ambient temperature and all depending on what I'm doing. My heat tolerance also sucks, and I hate exercising in hot weather. Silver lining is that I'm learning how to dress for and enjoy exercising in cold weather.1
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.
A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.
A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.
Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.
I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.
Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.
Could I ask where you are located (going to guess England due to the use of term "mum" but want to be sure). Sorry jus saw above you're in Canada.
Here in Illinois USA, our neighbor had both knees replaced at the same time a few years back. He was 74 at the time.
I know when my husband tore his distal biceps tendon when he was 48 they waffled about fixing it or not (he did get it done.) They expect that if you are older you should just accept the 25% loss of strength that comes with that particular injury.
Exactly. This is the attitude I'm seeing now that I (and my friends) are older.1 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
I am shocked and appalled. I have never been so close to hitting the disagree button (would be for the first time ever!): cilantro is fantastic. Diced on a stirfry, blended in a green curry paste, bunched around a steaming fish!
The rest of your (and Gail's) post is spot on. I was overweight before I first had an episode of gout, then ages of investigations and considerations of inflammatory arthritis before we finally settled the diagnosis. (Yes, getting a diagnosis can be problematic, even for a doctor).
Every time I would get motivated, I would get gout. I would get sad. I would get demotivated. I would eat more. Treatment was difficult (anyone who has taken colchicine will know what I mean), so I just plodded on in pain, but struggled to lose weight.
Could I, as niner suggests, have choosen to do exercise while in pain (although actually I couldn't because there's a well recognised association between gouty inflammation and tendon rupture - or so my rheumatologist said, actual research is sparse). Just step out of my low mood and into the gym. I can't prove that I couldn't, or that I couldn't have lost weight earlier by better dietary habits.
But I am losing weight now: the cost is huge. Managing pain, reduced quality of work (don't worry I'm non-clinical at the moment which is a window I need to use as weight loss while working in a hospital is so much harder), worse family relationships, turning food into a chore. I have come to the conclusion that it is necessary, and I can chose to do the necessary thing. But it is facile to say that it is simply a choice to be healthy.1 -
Okay I just have to come out and say it: coriander (cilantro) is VILE!!
But only because I’m allergic to it so it tries to kill me. Otherwise I’d happily scoff it 🤷♂️1 -
Depends on where one might reside. In the US, many aged adults above 65 years old consider themselves fragile and DON'T move as much compared say to their counterparts in Asia.psychod787 wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
While I do not doubt that movement declines with age, the Hadza of advanced age, still have very high movement rates, compared to westerners of the same demographic. So, while people do get some DJD as they age, high movement rates are important.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-01002-7
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2 -
Let me clarify..............I wasn't speaking of people who are predisposed to health issues of joints, etc. Was speaking of the average American who CHOOSES not to use physical fitness in their daily lifestyle.
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
5 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"1 -
Right: I've been off work with D and V and unable to access the full article. Now I'm back and have had a proper read, I am super grumpy at the response here and an equivalent thread on r/loseit.
Both places have responded to the short summary with a similar "You can't excuse your weight with your metabolism any more" attitude, and with various bits of CICO bravado.
But I was not interested in the headline: this was not a longitudinal study: this was a single time-point per participant. What it can say about variation in metabolism over time is that, on a population level, healthcare and and others should not assume a reduction in metabolism until over 60, at which stage it declines.
But it doesn't say anything about variability of individuals at a timepoint, nor about variability of individuals over time. These are critical when considering advice to an individual. This report does nothing to say whether individuals fall into or out of a range of TDEE or BEE.
So I looked further at the data. Figure 2 and table 2 show the data needed to make this assessment. Here (I hope it works)
Looking at adjusted TDEE is fraught with problems: various activity levels are not corrected for, and thus it could be argued that this explains the massive standard deviations at each point.
But looking at adjusted BEE.
This is the measurement of basal energy expended performed using spirometry, and included 2000 of the 6000 participants. They used a linear regression model to predict what it "should" be, then plotted the actual values on the graph with a single standard deviation as bars.
Table 2 shows the same data in text format.
What this shows is that a standard deviation in BEE between 20 and 60 ranges from 9.1% to 14.7% (mean: 10.9%) for females and 7.1% to 14.6% (mean 10.45%) for males.
This means that only 68.2% of people fall within 10% of the mean adjusted BEE for their age and c 95% fall within 20%. That means 1 in 20 people (of all people) have a baseline energy expenditure which is over 20% different from the mean. 1 in 40 people have an BEE which is lower than 20% less than the mean. For me that would entail a calorie difference of 440kcal. And that's just from the mean - a person with a reciprocally higher BEE could be maintaining weight while taking in 880kcal more than me. That is larger than the largest meal I have eaten in several weeks.
Even considering only those >1 standard deviation lower than the mean (that is 15% or so of people with a >10% lower BEE than the mean): that equates to 220 kcal per day. That equates to a whopping 23lbs per year (using 3500 as a pound and not correcting for the increased weight, which would bring this figure down by a pound or two). Again, considering the reciprocal, there could be a 46lb weight difference between the 15% with the highest BEE and the lowest, regardless of exercise, or fat-free mass, in a single year.
Of course, the majority of people fall into the middle ground. But a forum for people to lose weight surely doesn't select evenly from the population? Surely it attracts people who are overweight, who perhaps have a less favourable BEE...
In any case: this study doesn't say how an individual's BEE/TDEE will change over time, just the population. It highlights that public health interventions should not consider that metabolism is slower until over the age of 60 and, in the words of the authors "interindividual variation in expenditure is considerable even when controlling for fat-free mass, fat mass, sex and age."
Hit me up with those disagrees - you know I love them!2 -
autobahn66 wrote: »Right: I've been off work with D and V and unable to access the full article. Now I'm back and have had a proper read, I am super grumpy at the response here and an equivalent thread on r/loseit.
Both places have responded to the short summary with a similar "You can't excuse your weight with your metabolism any more" attitude, and with various bits of CICO bravado.
But I was not interested in the headline: this was not a longitudinal study: this was a single time-point per participant. What it can say about variation in metabolism over time is that, on a population level, healthcare and and others should not assume a reduction in metabolism until over 60, at which stage it declines.
But it doesn't say anything about variability of individuals at a timepoint, nor about variability of individuals over time. These are critical when considering advice to an individual. This report does nothing to say whether individuals fall into or out of a range of TDEE or BEE.
So I looked further at the data. Figure 2 and table 2 show the data needed to make this assessment. Here (I hope it works)
Looking at adjusted TDEE is fraught with problems: various activity levels are not corrected for, and thus it could be argued that this explains the massive standard deviations at each point.
But looking at adjusted BEE.
This is the measurement of basal energy expended performed using spirometry, and included 2000 of the 6000 participants. They used a linear regression model to predict what it "should" be, then plotted the actual values on the graph with a single standard deviation as bars.
Table 2 shows the same data in text format.
What this shows is that a standard deviation in BEE between 20 and 60 ranges from 9.1% to 14.7% (mean: 10.9%) for females and 7.1% to 14.6% (mean 10.45%) for males.
This means that only 68.2% of people fall within 10% of the mean adjusted BEE for their age and c 95% fall within 20%. That means 1 in 20 people (of all people) have a baseline energy expenditure which is over 20% different from the mean. 1 in 40 people have an BEE which is lower than 20% less than the mean. For me that would entail a calorie difference of 440kcal. And that's just from the mean - a person with a reciprocally higher BEE could be maintaining weight while taking in 880kcal more than me. That is larger than the largest meal I have eaten in several weeks.
Even considering only those >1 standard deviation lower than the mean (that is 15% or so of people with a >10% lower BEE than the mean): that equates to 220 kcal per day. That equates to a whopping 23lbs per year (using 3500 as a pound and not correcting for the increased weight, which would bring this figure down by a pound or two). Again, considering the reciprocal, there could be a 46lb weight difference between the 15% with the highest BEE and the lowest, regardless of exercise, or fat-free mass, in a single year.
Of course, the majority of people fall into the middle ground. But a forum for people to lose weight surely doesn't select evenly from the population? Surely it attracts people who are overweight, who perhaps have a less favourable BEE...
In any case: this study doesn't say how an individual's BEE/TDEE will change over time, just the population. It highlights that public health interventions should not consider that metabolism is slower until over the age of 60 and, in the words of the authors "interindividual variation in expenditure is considerable even when controlling for fat-free mass, fat mass, sex and age."
Hit me up with those disagrees - you know I love them!
I feel like that's pretty much what I've been trying to say, though based only on the abstract since I can't see full text: This isn't any kind of reliable predictor about what's going to happen at n=1, so might as well try to maximize personal outcomes based on personal experiences/data, not worry about averages & populations. I'm an individual, not a statistical average.
Whether "most people" start declining in BMR/RMR at age 20 and decline steadily, or instead hold pretty steady from 20 to 60 then drop sharply, or any other population level typical pattern . . . to the individual, what matters is that individual's genetics, and also what s/he is like at 20, 60, and everything in between (in behavior, health, uncontrollable factors like accidents/disabilities, etc.).
The best an individual gets from the generalized statistics is some hint what their pattern might be if they have average genetics, and behave in average ways.
I think this research is very interesting, but it's interesting in an academic sense (which is not dismissing it, in my world). We need data-based models of what happens at a population (aggregated) level, for a variety of reasons, among them to guide policy (which targets populations or average people, depending on how you think of it).
Yes, people should stop saying "I'm doomed metabolically because I'm X years old", but they should've stopped saying that (IMO) even if the conceptual model was steady decline from 20 to 60 for the average person. Individuals are likely to be average (probabilistically), but they're going to figure out what their individual course is by living it, and maybe by tweaking their personal variables to adjust their individual outcomes, to the extent practical.
Using population trends as an excuse *is* just an excuse. Using individual characteristics and applied experience as an "excuse" can actually be a *reason*.1 -
autobahn66 wrote: »The rest of your (and Gail's) post is spot on. I was overweight before I first had an episode of gout, then ages of investigations and considerations of inflammatory arthritis before we finally settled the diagnosis. (Yes, getting a diagnosis can be problematic, even for a doctor).
Every time I would get motivated, I would get gout. I would get sad. I would get demotivated. I would eat more. Treatment was difficult (anyone who has taken colchicine will know what I mean), so I just plodded on in pain, but struggled to lose weight.
You have my sympathy. My father's doctor also failed to diagnose gout (nor did my father push very hard for a gout investigation because he's an alcoholic) and he became progressively less active, which led to severe sarcopenia. Eventually he ended up almost completely immobile and hospitalized, where it took 5.5 months to restore his ability to walk, with mobility aids. At least they figured out the gout issue and he's been on allopurinol ever since but he'll never achieve his previous level of function.1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"
I would certainly say that many people make that assumption.
I would not say it is a factor in my case.
I would go on to say it is not a factor in the majority of disabled people I know personally.
And I wonder what prompted you to put the word disability in quotes.
Also? Cilantro is gross.
2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"
Why do have disability in quotes?
I don't have a disability per se, but besides my tale of woe in my previous post, I have two herniated discs in (one cervical one lumbar) in my early 40's while at a normal weight. So between healing from those and my frozen shoulders, arthritis, prolapse, vertigo etc I have had to "start over" fitness wise at least six times after recuperating. Often with a new type of exercise because of limitations, I mean I have done it but it is discouraging and frustrating and I don't think it is unusual for those types of things to lead to weight gain.
So yes excess weight probably exacerbates disability in some cases - but the disability can also lead to weight gain for a variety of reasons. Reduced activity is one of them, but depression and mental fatigue is also a factor. I mean I only had "chronic pain" , and/or bouts of vertigo lasting several months at a time. I can't even imagine living like that indefinitely while trying to maintain a diet and fitness regime while the room is spinning, or in constant pain.1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"
Why do have disability in quotes?
I don't have a disability per se, but besides my tale of woe in my previous post, I have two herniated discs in (one cervical one lumbar) in my early 40's while at a normal weight. So between healing from those and my frozen shoulders, arthritis, prolapse, vertigo etc I have had to "start over" fitness wise at least six times after recuperating. Often with a new type of exercise because of limitations, I mean I have done it but it is discouraging and frustrating and I don't think it is unusual for those types of things to lead to weight gain.
So yes excess weight probably exacerbates disability in some cases - but the disability can also lead to weight gain for a variety of reasons. Reduced activity is one of them, but depression and mental fatigue is also a factor. I mean I only had "chronic pain" , and/or bouts of vertigo lasting several months at a time. I can't even imagine living like that indefinitely while trying to maintain a diet and fitness regime while the room is spinning, or in constant pain.
I put disability in quote because I was thinking of a broader use of the word, not the legal sense where one qualifies for disability payments from a government source or insurance policy, sort of how you use "disability" in the bolded.1 -
ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age.
I sure slowed down from age 20 to age 30! But then, perhaps it had something to do with the extra 70 pounds I was toting around at the time... lol.3 -
Well phooey. There goes that excuse, as well as menopause it seems. Dang it, I didn't want to take responsibility!
6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"
Why do have disability in quotes?
I don't have a disability per se, but besides my tale of woe in my previous post, I have two herniated discs in (one cervical one lumbar) in my early 40's while at a normal weight. So between healing from those and my frozen shoulders, arthritis, prolapse, vertigo etc I have had to "start over" fitness wise at least six times after recuperating. Often with a new type of exercise because of limitations, I mean I have done it but it is discouraging and frustrating and I don't think it is unusual for those types of things to lead to weight gain.
So yes excess weight probably exacerbates disability in some cases - but the disability can also lead to weight gain for a variety of reasons. Reduced activity is one of them, but depression and mental fatigue is also a factor. I mean I only had "chronic pain" , and/or bouts of vertigo lasting several months at a time. I can't even imagine living like that indefinitely while trying to maintain a diet and fitness regime while the room is spinning, or in constant pain.
I put disability in quote because I was thinking of a broader use of the word, not the legal sense where one qualifies for disability payments from a government source or insurance policy, sort of how you use "disability" in the bolded.
I am also thinking of people who are disabled, not whatever disability payments they may or may not receive.
The vast majority of people who have a disability are not “on disability” to use your shorthand.
1 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"
Why do have disability in quotes?
I don't have a disability per se, but besides my tale of woe in my previous post, I have two herniated discs in (one cervical one lumbar) in my early 40's while at a normal weight. So between healing from those and my frozen shoulders, arthritis, prolapse, vertigo etc I have had to "start over" fitness wise at least six times after recuperating. Often with a new type of exercise because of limitations, I mean I have done it but it is discouraging and frustrating and I don't think it is unusual for those types of things to lead to weight gain.
So yes excess weight probably exacerbates disability in some cases - but the disability can also lead to weight gain for a variety of reasons. Reduced activity is one of them, but depression and mental fatigue is also a factor. I mean I only had "chronic pain" , and/or bouts of vertigo lasting several months at a time. I can't even imagine living like that indefinitely while trying to maintain a diet and fitness regime while the room is spinning, or in constant pain.
I put disability in quote because I was thinking of a broader use of the word, not the legal sense where one qualifies for disability payments from a government source or insurance policy, sort of how you use "disability" in the bolded.
I am also thinking of people who are disabled, not whatever disability payments they may or may not receive.
The vast majority of people who have a disability are not “on disability” to use your shorthand.
So, I agree with you but per the ADA disability is a legal term - not a medical one. Meaning that people with chronic, even debilitating conditions can PER THE ADA not be disabled. Not reliant on 'get payments' but it isn't a medical classification.
And I think that's worth pointing out given the rest of the conversation going on here.1 -
wunderkindking wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »
Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.ljashley1952 wrote: »It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I hesitate to reply to this because I seem to be always disagreeing with you (but I do frequently disagree with you so oh well).
No people don't get to CHOOSE the life they wish to lead when it comes to health issues. It makes me crazy when it is suggested that if people just stayed active and fit they could avoid health issues. I was very fit and active throughout my life (running, biking, kayaking, yoga) until health issues hit and I wasn't. Starting in my mid 40's I experienced: organ prolapse, two frozen shoulders, tri-compartmental knee arthritis, skin cancer (among other things.) I was training for a sprint triathlon when my frozen shoulders hit ffs. I was running and weight training regularly when I had to give it up due to severe osteoarthritis, despite over a year of physiotherapy. I wasn't allowed to lift for several weeks after my skin cancer surgery. I honestly get so pissed when people who have been lucky enough to avoid serious health issues blame those who have them and suggest that the CHOOSE to have them with their lifestyle.
Here is another take - those people who remain healthy, active and fit into into older ages are ABLE to do so because they have avoided (perhaps by chance or genetics) those degenerative problems that slow other people down - BY NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
(ETA- For what it's worth I just got back from my second "mountain bike" ride [gravel and dirt trails - not mountains] after not being on a bike for probably 6 years. Was out for less than an hour, exhausted, and had to walk up every slope that wasn't a gentle climb. Now icing my *kitten* knee. So it's not like I am trying to use "excuses" to give up.)
Agreeing 100% with this.
I was active. I bicycled everywhere. I had a physical job. I loved my unicycle.
My thyroid went bad on me and I had a doctor who absolutely refused to medicate me properly.
Rural. We had no insurance at the time. So I couldn’t afford to shop around for other doctors.
I gained lots of weight. And worked it off, mostly, eventually….
Fast forward a few years I was running. I was having fun exercising. And then I started feeling a little push while running. Weird. But I ignored it.
Kept running.
My symptoms progressed to the point where I am now, unable to walk across my living room without holding on to things. And I still get those mystery pushes while walking but they’re stronger now. And quite scary when they happen.
Yes I gained weight. Because yes I neglected to adjust my calorie intake. That’s not my point here.
My point is my activity declined precipitously because of my disability not because - as pretty much every doctor I have seen seems to believe - I am lazy or I dislike exercise.
I miss my unicycle I cried when I finally gave it away four years ago.
I miss being able to go geocaching.
I miss my bike.
I miss a lot of things I used to be able to do.
On top of that, my GP has told me to my face that walking on the beach was “too dangerous” and I shouldn’t be doing it.
Walking. On. The. Beach…. We live on a peninsula. The most common, natural, easy exercise. Declared too dangerous and out of my zone. Even with my two canes, and a companion.
I have tried and tried to be able to do something to stay active.
The only thing that has helped is the great luck to be able to finally afford a professional level recumbent elliptical, specialized for disability rehab. That’s my NuStep.
I really intensely dislike the way many people (even professionals) will look at fat people and assume they’re disabled because they’re fat when frequently it’s the other way around.
Also? Cilantro tastes like soap. It’s gross.
Go on and disagree if you must.
But would you not agree in most cases excess weight exacerbates the "disability"
Why do have disability in quotes?
I don't have a disability per se, but besides my tale of woe in my previous post, I have two herniated discs in (one cervical one lumbar) in my early 40's while at a normal weight. So between healing from those and my frozen shoulders, arthritis, prolapse, vertigo etc I have had to "start over" fitness wise at least six times after recuperating. Often with a new type of exercise because of limitations, I mean I have done it but it is discouraging and frustrating and I don't think it is unusual for those types of things to lead to weight gain.
So yes excess weight probably exacerbates disability in some cases - but the disability can also lead to weight gain for a variety of reasons. Reduced activity is one of them, but depression and mental fatigue is also a factor. I mean I only had "chronic pain" , and/or bouts of vertigo lasting several months at a time. I can't even imagine living like that indefinitely while trying to maintain a diet and fitness regime while the room is spinning, or in constant pain.
I put disability in quote because I was thinking of a broader use of the word, not the legal sense where one qualifies for disability payments from a government source or insurance policy, sort of how you use "disability" in the bolded.
I am also thinking of people who are disabled, not whatever disability payments they may or may not receive.
The vast majority of people who have a disability are not “on disability” to use your shorthand.
So, I agree with you but per the ADA disability is a legal term - not a medical one. Meaning that people with chronic, even debilitating conditions can PER THE ADA not be disabled. Not reliant on 'get payments' but it isn't a medical classification.
And I think that's worth pointing out given the rest of the conversation going on here.
Just clarifying:
“ To be protected by the ADA, one must have a disability, which is defined by the ADA as a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment. The ADA does not specifically name all of the impairments that are covered.”
https://www.ada.gov/ada_intro.htm0 -
https://adata.org/faq/what-definition-disability-under-ada#:~:text=It is important to remember,rather than a medical one.&text=The ADA defines a person,or more major life activity.
"t is important to remember that in the context of the ADA, “disability” is a legal term rather than a medical one. Because it has a legal definition, the ADA’s definition of disability is different from how disability is defined under some other laws, such as for Social Security Disability related benefits.
The ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. This includes people who have a record of such an impairment, even if they do not currently have a disability. It also includes individuals who do not have a disability but are regarded as having a disability. "0 -
wunderkindking wrote: »https://adata.org/faq/what-definition-disability-under-ada#:~:text=It is important to remember,rather than a medical one.&text=The ADA defines a person,or more major life activity.
"t is important to remember that in the context of the ADA, “disability” is a legal term rather than a medical one. Because it has a legal definition, the ADA’s definition of disability is different from how disability is defined under some other laws, such as for Social Security Disability related benefits.
The ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. This includes people who have a record of such an impairment, even if they do not currently have a disability. It also includes individuals who do not have a disability but are regarded as having a disability. "
Right.
And, using the social model of disability, being regarded as having a disability - and thus being treated negatively - is in itself a disability.
Editing to add that the ADA is fundamentally about how disabled people are discriminated against, and thus the focus is on efforts to level the playing field. Perception of abled/disabled is key there.
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