Is starvation mode really a thing?
Ladyamanda87
Posts: 36 Member
Getting opinions here about starvation. I'm a big girl trying my hardest to lose weight. I've lost 19lbs so far, and started 11 weeks ago. I'm eating 1500 calories a day. I'm currently 377. I just feel like at this weight, I should be losing more. Mfp tells me 2500 calories a day.. I think that's insanity. Lol. And now I'm wondering if my body is holding onto the fat for energy. Any one had this happen or have tips to help me?
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Replies
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Starvation mode is a thing ("adaptive thermogenesis") but it's a response to LONG TERM calorie restriction (like years). 11 weeks wouldn't really count.
You're losing an average of almost two lbs per week-- which is a reasonable rate.
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Starvation mode isn't really a thing, but there are a few things that can happen:
- with an agressive calorie deficit, your body can try to conserve energy by cutting down on less essential processes (hair growth, nails,...) and by making you feel more tired (you might become less active without realizing it - less fidgeting, less moving around,…)
- also, an aggressive calorie deficit stresses the body, and stress can cause water retention.
Aside from that, other things to consider:
- depending on the accuracy of your food logging, you might be consuming more than you think: are you weighing everything you eat? Verifying that the food database entries you're using are accurate?
- MFP (like other calculators) uses statistical averages to calculate a calorie goal - you may or may not be average, you might potentially have a slower metabolism than average
- have you started exercising? That can also cause water retention, masking fat loss on the scale.
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PS: I'm wondering: MFP tells you 2500 calories for what? Weight maintenance? If so, nearly 2lbs of weight loss per week at an intake of 1500 sounds pretty accurate - a calorie deficit of 1000 calories per dag equates to around 2lbs lost per week.3
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I just put in my weight, age, etc and selected to lose 2lbs a week and it says 2500 calories I can consume. I also put it on sedentary because I'm not exercising yet. I do have a low active thyroid so I know my Metabolism is super slow. I actually have thyroid cancer, and finding that out was a huge reason why I've been able to stick with this for 11 weeks. Honestly I usually give up by now. But I want as less recovery issues as possible and that has a huge impact on my weight.10
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Sorry forgot to add yes I weigh everything:)3
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FYI - The activity setting is nothing to do with purposeful exercise.
Sedentary, Lightly Active etc.. are to estimate your daily activity and movement patterns, not your exercise.
Things like your job, household chores, childcare......
Best of luck, stick with it but try not to be impatient.2 -
Ladyamanda87 wrote: »I just put in my weight, age, etc and selected to lose 2lbs a week and it says 2500 calories I can consume. I also put it on sedentary because I'm not exercising yet. I do have a low active thyroid so I know my Metabolism is super slow. I actually have thyroid cancer, and finding that out was a huge reason why I've been able to stick with this for 11 weeks. Honestly I usually give up by now. But I want as less recovery issues as possible and that has a huge impact on my weight.
I'm wondering if you haven't made an error in the goal settings somewhere? 2500 as a goal for 2lbs per week would mean 3500calories for maintenance, which seems too high for you (granted, I only know your weight and activity level, not your age or height).
Obviously this is theoretical, since you're eating 1500, not 2500.
I know we all want the weight gone sooner than later (especially since you are thinking of recovery post-surgery, if I understand correctly?) but nearly 2lbs per week is a good rate!
Are you okay eating 1500 calories, or are you struggling with it?1 -
Being as healthy and strong as possible to cope with your thyroid cancer is important, and weight loss to a “healthy” weight can indeed be part of that. Steady weight loss is important as it won’t overtax your body and your immune system. Fast weight loss can lead to things like hair loss, depleted energy, lowered immune response, feeling rubbish, your body burning vital protein sources (muscles including your heart). None of those things are fun at the best of time, but going into any form of cancer treatment you need to give yourself the best physical and mental start.
So 2lbs per week is great at your weight, make sure you don’t undereat as you need all the vitamins and minerals you can get, and keep an eye on your energy levels. Good luck!7 -
If I were you - just to check and see if the calorie goal is ~accurate --- use a TDEE calculator and also put in your lifestyle/activity level as 'sedentary' and see what your TDEE is.
Subtract a moderate amount of calories from that to lose weight (some online calculators will do this for you to give you a calorie goal).
If you are losing 2lbs per week, then I'm not sure what you are concerned about....losing MORE weight than that per week usually comes with some other not so nice things so you really don't want to be doing that aggressive of weight loss anyway.
For reference just as an example: I'm 34F, 5'3", 118lbs and my TDEE is usually estimated to be ~1500 (I eat 16-1700 and am maintaining my weight)......so I'm not sure it's actually 'insanity' for your calorie goal to be somewhere over 2000...just think you should use another option to check it. **Edit just to add that I choose 'sedentary' as my activity level as well when using a TDEE calculator just bc I don't want to include my intentional exercise, I simply log that exercise in MFP and eat those calories back so due to my activity there are days I eat over 2000 calories as well. Including any intentional exercise I think just depends on what makes the numbers easier for you in your head....1 -
Ladyamanda87 wrote: »I just put in my weight, age, etc and selected to lose 2lbs a week and it says 2500 calories I can consume. I also put it on sedentary because I'm not exercising yet. I do have a low active thyroid so I know my Metabolism is super slow. I actually have thyroid cancer, and finding that out was a huge reason why I've been able to stick with this for 11 weeks. Honestly I usually give up by now. But I want as less recovery issues as possible and that has a huge impact on my weight.
I'm wondering if you haven't made an error in the goal settings somewhere? 2500 as a goal for 2lbs per week would mean 3500calories for maintenance, which seems too high for you (granted, I only know your weight and activity level, not your age or height).
Obviously this is theoretical, since you're eating 1500, not 2500.
I know we all want the weight gone sooner than later (especially since you are thinking of recovery post-surgery, if I understand correctly?) but nearly 2lbs per week is a good rate!
Are you okay eating 1500 calories, or are you struggling with it?
Hmmm maybe I did make an error somewhere. I'm 34, and 5'5. I'll try to go back and see if I messed up. Thank you! I'm doing better then I thought with 1500. I know 2lbs a week is a good weightloss, I just always feel like it's not good enough.2 -
westrich20940 wrote: »If I were you - just to check and see if the calorie goal is ~accurate --- use a TDEE calculator and also put in your lifestyle/activity level as 'sedentary' and see what your TDEE is.
Subtract a moderate amount of calories from that to lose weight (some online calculators will do this for you to give you a calorie goal).
If you are losing 2lbs per week, then I'm not sure what you are concerned about....losing MORE weight than that per week usually comes with some other not so nice things so you really don't want to be doing that aggressive of weight loss anyway.
For reference just as an example: I'm 34F, 5'3", 118lbs and my TDEE is usually estimated to be ~1500 (I eat 16-1700 and am maintaining my weight)......so I'm not sure it's actually 'insanity' for your calorie goal to be somewhere over 2000...just think you should use another option to check it. **Edit just to add that I choose 'sedentary' as my activity level as well when using a TDEE calculator just bc I don't want to include my intentional exercise, I simply log that exercise in MFP and eat those calories back so due to my activity there are days I eat over 2000 calories as well. Including any intentional exercise I think just depends on what makes the numbers easier for you in your head....
Okay thank you. I'll check it now! I know 2lbs a week is good, and healthy. I just thought it would be more at first. It's hard to be this big and when I lose 20lbs I feel no different but someone else loses 20 I can definitely tell lol. I just need to chill and focus.6 -
Ladyamanda87 wrote: »westrich20940 wrote: »If I were you - just to check and see if the calorie goal is ~accurate --- use a TDEE calculator and also put in your lifestyle/activity level as 'sedentary' and see what your TDEE is.
Subtract a moderate amount of calories from that to lose weight (some online calculators will do this for you to give you a calorie goal).
If you are losing 2lbs per week, then I'm not sure what you are concerned about....losing MORE weight than that per week usually comes with some other not so nice things so you really don't want to be doing that aggressive of weight loss anyway.
For reference just as an example: I'm 34F, 5'3", 118lbs and my TDEE is usually estimated to be ~1500 (I eat 16-1700 and am maintaining my weight)......so I'm not sure it's actually 'insanity' for your calorie goal to be somewhere over 2000...just think you should use another option to check it. **Edit just to add that I choose 'sedentary' as my activity level as well when using a TDEE calculator just bc I don't want to include my intentional exercise, I simply log that exercise in MFP and eat those calories back so due to my activity there are days I eat over 2000 calories as well. Including any intentional exercise I think just depends on what makes the numbers easier for you in your head....
Okay thank you. I'll check it now! I know 2lbs a week is good, and healthy. I just thought it would be more at first. It's hard to be this big and when I lose 20lbs I feel no different but someone else loses 20 I can definitely tell lol. I just need to chill and focus.
one thing to keep in mind is that when you are larger (I started at almost 400 pounds (378 to be exact), have lost 189+ currently) it takes longer to SEE weight loss.
a few reasons for this ....
1- people are 'trained' not to comment on other peoples weight- good or bad. theres always exceptions but in general, most people wont really say anything unless YOU bring up the subject.
2- larger clothing sizes are made to be generous and it can take losing quite a lot to go down in sizing. now, i change jean sizes roughly every 10 pounds or so. when i was larger it was 20 or so pounds if i remember right? material is stretchier, waistbands are elastic, material is more forgiving, etc... they are (purposely) made to cover a larger weight range
3- in the MIRROR (and i STILL struggle with this)... we just dont SEE it. logically, i know that i weigh 182 (as of this morning). when i look in the MIRROR... i still tend to see someone much larger than what i know is there (if that makes sense). its called body dysmorphia, and to a certain extent i think most people, especially those who have lost weight have a form of it. Those with severe eating disorders have SEVERE forms of it. Oddly, in photos, I can see the weight loss (usually). Just not in the mirror. I can hold up a pair of size 10 jeans and say ' no way will those fit' and they fit PERFECT and my mind be blown. minds are weird, man.
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callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »Ladyamanda87 wrote: »westrich20940 wrote: »If I were you - just to check and see if the calorie goal is ~accurate --- use a TDEE calculator and also put in your lifestyle/activity level as 'sedentary' and see what your TDEE is.
Subtract a moderate amount of calories from that to lose weight (some online calculators will do this for you to give you a calorie goal).
If you are losing 2lbs per week, then I'm not sure what you are concerned about....losing MORE weight than that per week usually comes with some other not so nice things so you really don't want to be doing that aggressive of weight loss anyway.
For reference just as an example: I'm 34F, 5'3", 118lbs and my TDEE is usually estimated to be ~1500 (I eat 16-1700 and am maintaining my weight)......so I'm not sure it's actually 'insanity' for your calorie goal to be somewhere over 2000...just think you should use another option to check it. **Edit just to add that I choose 'sedentary' as my activity level as well when using a TDEE calculator just bc I don't want to include my intentional exercise, I simply log that exercise in MFP and eat those calories back so due to my activity there are days I eat over 2000 calories as well. Including any intentional exercise I think just depends on what makes the numbers easier for you in your head....
Okay thank you. I'll check it now! I know 2lbs a week is good, and healthy. I just thought it would be more at first. It's hard to be this big and when I lose 20lbs I feel no different but someone else loses 20 I can definitely tell lol. I just need to chill and focus.
one thing to keep in mind is that when you are larger (I started at almost 400 pounds (378 to be exact), have lost 189+ currently) it takes longer to SEE weight loss.
a few reasons for this ....
1- people are 'trained' not to comment on other peoples weight- good or bad. theres always exceptions but in general, most people wont really say anything unless YOU bring up the subject.
2- larger clothing sizes are made to be generous and it can take losing quite a lot to go down in sizing. now, i change jean sizes roughly every 10 pounds or so. when i was larger it was 20 or so pounds if i remember right? material is stretchier, waistbands are elastic, material is more forgiving, etc... they are (purposely) made to cover a larger weight range
3- in the MIRROR (and i STILL struggle with this)... we just dont SEE it. logically, i know that i weigh 182 (as of this morning). when i look in the MIRROR... i still tend to see someone much larger than what i know is there (if that makes sense). its called body dysmorphia, and to a certain extent i think most people, especially those who have lost weight have a form of it. Those with severe eating disorders have SEVERE forms of it. Oddly, in photos, I can see the weight loss (usually). Just not in the mirror. I can hold up a pair of size 10 jeans and say ' no way will those fit' and they fit PERFECT and my mind be blown. minds are weird, man.
All of that is so true. Thank you so much for taking the time to write to me, it means alot! I feel better now 😁7 -
There is a group here called, "Larger Losers" for those with a lot to lose, you would find support and empathy and information there - if you'd like to join the group, here's the link:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/133315-larger-losers
If you do join, then you can find it again either in the Main "Community" index, or by going to "Groups" in the dark blue navigation bar at the top (when in "Community")4 -
Ladyamanda87 wrote: »westrich20940 wrote: »If I were you - just to check and see if the calorie goal is ~accurate --- use a TDEE calculator and also put in your lifestyle/activity level as 'sedentary' and see what your TDEE is.
Subtract a moderate amount of calories from that to lose weight (some online calculators will do this for you to give you a calorie goal).
If you are losing 2lbs per week, then I'm not sure what you are concerned about....losing MORE weight than that per week usually comes with some other not so nice things so you really don't want to be doing that aggressive of weight loss anyway.
For reference just as an example: I'm 34F, 5'3", 118lbs and my TDEE is usually estimated to be ~1500 (I eat 16-1700 and am maintaining my weight)......so I'm not sure it's actually 'insanity' for your calorie goal to be somewhere over 2000...just think you should use another option to check it. **Edit just to add that I choose 'sedentary' as my activity level as well when using a TDEE calculator just bc I don't want to include my intentional exercise, I simply log that exercise in MFP and eat those calories back so due to my activity there are days I eat over 2000 calories as well. Including any intentional exercise I think just depends on what makes the numbers easier for you in your head....
Okay thank you. I'll check it now! I know 2lbs a week is good, and healthy. I just thought it would be more at first. It's hard to be this big and when I lose 20lbs I feel no different but someone else loses 20 I can definitely tell lol. I just need to chill and focus.
no your fine....2500 would be maintenance based on other calculators.
But yes 2lbs a week is pretty good.
As for starvation mode....no. Simple answer.
But logging is tricky too....using correct entries is as important as weighing food in grams and logging it all.
As well remember that there are stress hormones that can cause water retention, there is a "whoosh" thing that can happen where all of the sudden you drop a bunch of weight...usually water weight but there are some good reads on it.
slow and steady...slow and steady...1 -
From what I've read, starvation mode isn't completely fake but is greatly exaggerated2
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Two pounds a week is terrific. Many here would give their eye teeth for those results.
If you keep up that pace- which is doable since you’re starting at 377- in a year you would be down to the mid 200’s. It’s even possible, if you did some weight training early on, that you could look less than your weight.
Visualize that and fix that image in your head as a goal to work towards.
However, have you discussed your weight loss efforts with the doctor responsible for your cancer treatment? They need to know and may even be able to give you valuable referrals to dietician or similar services.
My few visits to my dietician were a game changer for me. I went in armed with questions and felt like discussing my weight loss with her sealed the deal, made it something tangible I could work on.7 -
My all time favorite article on starvation mode, adaptive thermogenesis, and metabolic adaptation:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/1 -
Ladyamanda87 wrote: »Ladyamanda87 wrote: »I just put in my weight, age, etc and selected to lose 2lbs a week and it says 2500 calories I can consume. I also put it on sedentary because I'm not exercising yet. I do have a low active thyroid so I know my Metabolism is super slow. I actually have thyroid cancer, and finding that out was a huge reason why I've been able to stick with this for 11 weeks. Honestly I usually give up by now. But I want as less recovery issues as possible and that has a huge impact on my weight.
I'm wondering if you haven't made an error in the goal settings somewhere? 2500 as a goal for 2lbs per week would mean 3500calories for maintenance, which seems too high for you (granted, I only know your weight and activity level, not your age or height).
Obviously this is theoretical, since you're eating 1500, not 2500.
I know we all want the weight gone sooner than later (especially since you are thinking of recovery post-surgery, if I understand correctly?) but nearly 2lbs per week is a good rate!
Are you okay eating 1500 calories, or are you struggling with it?
Hmmm maybe I did make an error somewhere. I'm 34, and 5'5. I'll try to go back and see if I messed up. Thank you! I'm doing better then I thought with 1500. I know 2lbs a week is a good weightloss, I just always feel like it's not good enough.
If you're losing even close to 2 pounds a week on average, that's pretty perfect IMO. I completely get that it can also be frustrating. Once we are *determined* to lose weight, especially for reasons like yours, we want it off *now*.
But the faster the weight loss, the higher the risk of bad health consequences - in admittedly unusual cases, even very severe life-changing consequences, such as heart failure. I'm not saying that would happen to you - heaven forbid! - but I am suggesting that especially in your already challenged health scenario, ultra-fast loss potentially increases your health risks in a variety of ways, which I'm sure you don't need.
I endorse some of the ideas above:
1. Larger losers group, https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/133315-larger-losers , super nice people and a good group.
2. Ask your doctor for a referral to a dietitian. Even beyond weight loss advice, improving nutrition, if needed/possible, would be a plus in a case like yours. (Cutting calories too extremely can compromise nutrition!)
I'd add:
3. See if your cancer center - if that's where you're getting oncology advice - has an on-staff dietitian with specialized knowledge, experience and education about diets for people diagnosed with cancer. My cancer center had such a person on staff, and she was extremely helpful to me during/after treatment, even doing research to get answers for some specialized questions I had, giving me articles to read to learn more, after she gave me her summary of what she'd found. Really excellent.
4. For background on hypothyroidism and weight management, there's a really great thread here:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10767046/hypothyroidism-and-weight-management
It was written by an MFP-er who is a scientist in the field, hypothyroid himself (thyroid removed, IIRC), and who lost weight by calorie-counting. Solid, science based.
5. Someone above mentioned that metabolism can be depressed in hypothyroidism. This is true. But metabolism, a.k.a. BMR (basal metabolic rate), which is the number of calories we'd burn in a coma, is only one factor.
Under- or un-treated hypothyroidism also causes fatigue, as I'm sure you know only too well. Fatigue reduces daily life movement (we rest more, basically). Reduced daily life movement, over time, creates *habits* of reduced movement.
Speaking as someone who is severely hypothyroid myself (now properly medicated), and who formerly was class 1 obese, obesity also tends to increase fatigue, reduce daily life movement, discourage exercise, and create habits of reduced movement. Daily life movement, though, is something we can work at increasing. (I recognize that fatigue will limit that ability, so this is more about pushing back a *manageable* small amount against forming habits of reduced movement.) There are ideas for increasing daily life movement in this thread:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
Some of those ideas will be impractical or out of reach for you, and that's understandable. Some may be viable, now or later, especially as you are gradually losing excess weight, so I'm offering the link for that possibility.
A couple of other thoughts:
This is another good source of information about "adaptive thermogenesis", the real effect, what it is & isn't, why the popular/common "starvation mode" idea isn't correct, etc.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss
Finally, another comment on 2500 seeming too high, though I understand (with a sense of relief, frankly) that you've gotten some reassurance from looking at TDEE calculator results. I'm your height, 5'5", now nearly twice your age, 65. Back in 2015-16, I lost from class 1 obese (so lower than your current weight, but substantially overweight) to a healthy weight, most of that time eating 1400-1600 calories plus all exercise calories, in less than a year.
For you, 2500 to maintain is plausible, even when hypothyroid. (The inherent "hypothyroidism penalty", before the fatigue effect anyway, is less than many people believe.)
Now, at age 65, and healthy weight, my TDEE is in the lower 2000s (with exercise), and on some of my more energetic exercise days, at or above 2500. With treatment for your thyroid condition, and decreasing body weight, you'll have capability and probably inclination to be more active, long term, with daily life stuff and possibly even exercise. Please don't feel like metabolism is doom.
There's a lot of folklore out in the world suggesting that women universally need bird-like numbers of calories to lose weight, like 1200 or even lower. That's just not true, especially at larger body sizes, and can be dangerous. When we're larger, we need more calories for basic healthy operations, in much the same way that a full-sized pickup truck requires more gas to get from point A to point B than does a subcompact car. Cut fuel supply too far, we don't get where we need to go.
Wishing you a successful path ahead!7 -
2500 I would think is plausible. HOWEVER, actual weight trend over-time trumps any estimates and at 11 weeks you should be starting to get semi-reliable self generated data if you're logging every day as accurately as you can. You can even through out outlying weeks and check to see more average performance.
As mentioned 2lbs a week is actually quite OK. and if you're eating 1500 I wouldn't go lower at your size regardless of what effect it had on pure speed. Sustainability of effort for a few years, developing new habits, those are of more importance than pure speed for someone who is going to have to manage their weight for the indefinite long term.1 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »Ladyamanda87 wrote: »westrich20940 wrote: »If I were you - just to check and see if the calorie goal is ~accurate --- use a TDEE calculator and also put in your lifestyle/activity level as 'sedentary' and see what your TDEE is.
Subtract a moderate amount of calories from that to lose weight (some online calculators will do this for you to give you a calorie goal).
If you are losing 2lbs per week, then I'm not sure what you are concerned about....losing MORE weight than that per week usually comes with some other not so nice things so you really don't want to be doing that aggressive of weight loss anyway.
For reference just as an example: I'm 34F, 5'3", 118lbs and my TDEE is usually estimated to be ~1500 (I eat 16-1700 and am maintaining my weight)......so I'm not sure it's actually 'insanity' for your calorie goal to be somewhere over 2000...just think you should use another option to check it. **Edit just to add that I choose 'sedentary' as my activity level as well when using a TDEE calculator just bc I don't want to include my intentional exercise, I simply log that exercise in MFP and eat those calories back so due to my activity there are days I eat over 2000 calories as well. Including any intentional exercise I think just depends on what makes the numbers easier for you in your head....
Okay thank you. I'll check it now! I know 2lbs a week is good, and healthy. I just thought it would be more at first. It's hard to be this big and when I lose 20lbs I feel no different but someone else loses 20 I can definitely tell lol. I just need to chill and focus.
one thing to keep in mind is that when you are larger (I started at almost 400 pounds (378 to be exact), have lost 189+ currently) it takes longer to SEE weight loss.
a few reasons for this ....
1- people are 'trained' not to comment on other peoples weight- good or bad. theres always exceptions but in general, most people wont really say anything unless YOU bring up the subject.
2- larger clothing sizes are made to be generous and it can take losing quite a lot to go down in sizing. now, i change jean sizes roughly every 10 pounds or so. when i was larger it was 20 or so pounds if i remember right? material is stretchier, waistbands are elastic, material is more forgiving, etc... they are (purposely) made to cover a larger weight range
3- in the MIRROR (and i STILL struggle with this)... we just dont SEE it. logically, i know that i weigh 182 (as of this morning). when i look in the MIRROR... i still tend to see someone much larger than what i know is there (if that makes sense). its called body dysmorphia, and to a certain extent i think most people, especially those who have lost weight have a form of it. Those with severe eating disorders have SEVERE forms of it. Oddly, in photos, I can see the weight loss (usually). Just not in the mirror. I can hold up a pair of size 10 jeans and say ' no way will those fit' and they fit PERFECT and my mind be blown. minds are weird, man.
This in the bold!!! One of the craziest things for me was that I lost ~30lbs all through covid...so I needed new clothes. I couldn't try stuff on in stores and it was so hard to eyeball it (I still struggle with this). I remember I ordered some clothes on stich-fix and I just measured my waist at home for it (I'm not sure I did it correctly but I just made a note to the stylist that I wasn't sure it was right)..anyway I got a pair of jeans in my box and the second I held them up I had the most massive feeling of discouragement and just thought..."There's no WAY these will even go up over my thighs..." --- TRY STUFF ON ANYWAY.. Because man o man....those jeans fit like a glove and it really struck me how different what my own estimate/vision of myself was vs. what I actually was.
There's a good exercise to do for this --- get a string and unwarp the amount that you *think* would go around different parts of your body (belly, waist, butt, thigh, etc) --- kind of like the game you play at baby showers...
Then actually use the string to measure it -- more often than not your own estimate is over. Can be a real eye opener.4
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