The Jeans Paradox
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Ariat has some good work jeans for women in a wide range of sizes.0
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True story, I taught 8th graders for years. They hadn't ever heard of modesty. As in, "define it, please" so I am surprised it was even mentioned. Here, here for modesty the forgotten virtue!!7
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Ahh modesty - the forgotten virtue. Yesterday I worked with a young woman wearing tight thin jeggings that pretty much demanded everyone look at her... uh... umm... Apparently, she never heard of the concept of modesty either.
Back to jeans, with the return of looser jeans with a variety of leg widths and waist heights, I am glad to unearth some of my ancient jeans that are suddenly in vogue again. Bonus: they are all real denim!5 -
Agree! And with tunic tops being out of style at the moment, it's tough to get good coverage over leggings. The newest crop of leggings resemble stirrup pants in thickness and fit. I wore a thick pair to work last week with boots, boyfriend button-front shirt and oversized fleece - covering my derriere. I am of the opinion that even the most perfect hard body gym rat should wear some sort of legging bottom cover beyond the gym or home.
Yeah our office dress code mandates derriere coverage with leggings, also limitations re fabric (not shiny).
That's probably the result of the gal who wore skin-tight glittery leopard print leggings with everything waist-down clearly on display, taking "business casual" to a whole new level.3 -
Tangent: What's with the "rise" trends? Small-waisted women look ridiculous in high waisted jeans that are baggy around her stomach, lol! But you have to fight to find a pair of low rise anywhere locally because "fashion trends" dictate we only provide access to the "fashionable" style. I guess if you're easy to fit you can just order online (assuming you can get an accurate size chart for that exact pair of jeans), but those of us who are hard to fit are out of luck. It's really unfortunate we've allowed profit margins instead of functionality to rule how we think we ought to provide access to basic necessities like clothing. Also vanity sizing. Just stop, please. Use inches for bottoms, not completely arbitrary "sizes" that are meaningless.1
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MagnificatMary wrote: »Longtime lurker who just had to set up an account today to tell this story.
First, let me say y'all have given me lots of support material. This is a great forum.
I lost 100 lbs, going from 245 to 145 from the first two weeks to slow the spread to week, eh, 75 of slowing the spread. It was about a year and a half. I've tracked every bite. I'm 5'8".
And I've gone from a size 20 to an 8.
There's immense joy for me in wearing real denim. Not that thin Old Navy denim colored cotton weave they call denim, but real thick denim like I wore as a kid. For my two decades of being overweight, I had to wear junky denim because the real stuff isn't made for bigger girls. All my junky jeans were so thin you could easily pinch it between your fingers and rub it back and forth like a handkerchief cotton. Every pair I had would wear through in the crotch in a month of regular wear. I dreamt of wearing a pair of Thelma and Louise style, real jeans!
And I found a pair of discounted Lucky Brand jeans with zero give in them on a sales rack. I thought they looked like they were for preteens. They'd never fit. But they did. And they looked great. And more than that, they felt great. Like I was wearing pants, and not leggings. Like I could kneel down I the desert to look at the damage to my convertible after a car chase.
Today I went to the Lucky Brand store, thinking I'd get another pair. The salesgirl was very nice. She pulled a few pairs for me to try on, and I did.
But only one pair had that magic real-denim, no give at all, serious feeling. And they looked great on me. The others were oddly baggy and the denim was that handkerchief denim that was baggy around the thighs. Weird.
So I asked the salesgirl. Why do these feel great and these others look so bad and baggy, even though both are an 8?
She came clean. The pair that fit great was old stock. They had found them in the stockroom underneath another box and put them out on the floor. They were a season old.
They were also made from thicker, less forgiving denim. All the new jeans are thinner, with more generous cuts in butt and thigh.
I couldn't believe it.
I lose 100 pounds to make my jean dreams come true, and they're dashed by vanity sizing.
Interestingly enough, while I was in the store, a girl asked about finding XL and size 20 several times. They said they're getting more of those sizes in soon.
The silver lining, though, is that my one good pair of jeans shows no sign of wear at all in the crotch. So it ain't all bad.
Check the item code on the pairs you like and look on Ebay for those items. Sometimes people don't like them after purchase so they sell on ebay to make their $$ back. I have had great luck with brands I know and am familiar with the style, fabric and fit on Ebay!!0 -
Sorry wrong thread0
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My favorite jeans are Silver jeans. I am fit but have a booty and hips and these jeans are the only ones that fit me nicely! I am also short and they have short sizes.
I also love Maurice's jeggings. I wear an XS which is by no means my real size on my bottom but these work the best. They feel like real jeans but allow me to wear tall boots over my jeans. Hope this helps!1 -
I spent all weekend looking for jeans. They are all so tight on the legs all the way down. I did find Lees at Kohls which are not quite as tighht, didnt buy them yet because mine look about as good. Those leggings spoil us, so comfy.2
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HermyKivioja wrote: »I think that clothing manufacturers have finally realized that women's clothes are not models from the catwalk and clothing sizes for most people should be different. And, of course, all production facilities are trying to make many products at the minimum cost of materials. Therefore, a similar situation occurs. I recently bought mom jeans in a second-hand store and found an article on how to style mom jeans. In general, I am very happy with my purchase, since now it is rare that you can find jeans made of normal fabric.
I bought some No Bo brand mom jeans at a Walmart this year for under $12 a pair and was shocked to find they fit me. I don't want skinny jeans and am tired of low rise jeans that slide down. I don't care what mom jeans are called, if they fit, they fit. So far the fabric has held up.0 -
Ahh modesty - the forgotten virtue. Yesterday I worked with a young woman wearing tight thin jeggings that pretty much demanded everyone look at her... uh... umm... Apparently, she never heard of the concept of modesty either.
Okay, but their butts were still covered so WHAT is the problem?
Seriously, people need to stop with the shaming.
I’m totally in the camp that leggings are pants and should be worn as such, and no you don’t need to wear a long shirt over them.
So what if they show off your curves / figure? I want to feel sexy and leggings give me that feeling. But they also give full coverage over my butt and they don’t even show any skin. So, they are also perfectly modest at the same time.
It’s 2022, I think in this day and age we need to let go of some old fashioned ideas about modesty and just accept that showing off your figure isn’t wrong and every woman deserves to feel sexy.
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I think more women should have a mirror that shows their backside before they go out in public. Most just preen up the front, but ladies, what people are seeing walking behind you is sometimes not complimentary. And yes, people judge your look out on the street. If you don't care, that's your choice, but people are people.3
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I can tell you that it is hard to find good jeans it does not matter what size you are. Before I lost weight, I used to buy 3-4 pairs of the same brand and the same size, each fit differently.
Right now I have pants from size 4 to size 10, I stopped looking at sizes, not even as guidelines. so frustrating.2 -
It’s 2022, I think in this day and age we need to let go of some old fashioned ideas about modesty and just accept that showing off your figure isn’t wrong and every woman deserves to feel sexy.
I often see younger women out and about wearing very form-fitting leggings and yoga pants and while initially it's a bit startling my next thought is, "Damn, if I had that body I'd show it off too".
I think many of us dress to conceal or camouflage what we perceive are our physical "flaws" but we shouldn't impose that standard on others. In fact, I'd say the ones who are out there flaunting body bits that are less than model-perfect probably have a better level of self-acceptance than I do.4 -
IMO it's one thing in the club where the vibe is "Look at me!" but a whole 'nuther thing in the workplace. The best work advice I've ever heard was, "The most important thing is simply not to become a distraction." It's nothing to do with body-shaming, it's all about being respectful of your co-workers and clients.4
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littleswissarmyhouse wrote: »I don’t really understand why someone would want jeans when leggings are an option.
Because some women want to look elegant and put together. I don't want to look like I'm on my way to the gym, or just rolled out of bed. Leggings look cheap no matter how you style them. They're basically just really thick tights. A nice pair of dark wash denim is always classic and stylish.
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IMO it's one thing in the club where the vibe is "Look at me!" but a whole 'nuther thing in the workplace. The best work advice I've ever heard was, "The most important thing is simply not to become a distraction." It's nothing to do with body-shaming, it's all about being respectful of your co-workers and clients.
No thank you. I will continue to wear whatever feels comfy and if you are distracted by my butt that’s a YOU problem.
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AtomicLemon wrote: »littleswissarmyhouse wrote: »I don’t really understand why someone would want jeans when leggings are an option.
Because some women want to look elegant and put together. I don't want to look like I'm on my way to the gym, or just rolled out of bed. Leggings look cheap no matter how you style them. They're basically just really thick tights. A nice pair of dark wash denim is always classic and stylish.
I agree. I think there is a place for everything. One can be comfortable and look elegant. Here i live in Rome, a large city, and women and men know how to dress on the street. Once in a while, you see a sight from behind that is pretty awful. But, everyone has a right to present themselves in public as they see fit.0 -
IMO it's one thing in the club where the vibe is "Look at me!" but a whole 'nuther thing in the workplace. The best work advice I've ever heard was, "The most important thing is simply not to become a distraction." It's nothing to do with body-shaming, it's all about being respectful of your co-workers and clients.
No thank you. I will continue to wear whatever feels comfy and if you are distracted by my butt that’s a YOU problem.
Not really because you can lose your job. There is a balance in all things.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Not really because you can lose your job. There is a balance in all things.
Here is America leggings are accepted as normal everyday pants. I wore leggings to the office all the time - so did all my coworkers under 40! They are totally acceptable these days. Everything is covered so what is the problem?
So what if they show the shape of my curves? I am a woman. I have a curvy body. Deal with it!! I think it’s very sexist that I need to wear uncomfortable office clothes just because my body is curvy.
Only old people have an issue with leggings. Young women want to feel comfortable and traditional pants are NOT comfortable for plus size women. Like most plus size women I have belly fat and the waistband of traditional pants digs into my belly fat when it sit down. I would have a red mark on my stomach at the end of the day from the waistband. Guess what? Women who wear traditional pants will unbutton them when seated at their desk and nobody’s looking, because they’re too uncomfortable otherwise. My roll of belly fat spreads out more when I sit down, so what’s comfortable standing isn’t comfortable sitting. For a job that requires sitting all day that is very impractical!
Leggings have an elastic waistband. They stretch with my body. When I sit down and my belly spreads out, the leggings stretch with it. They are so much more comfortable! For a plus size woman with belly fat who needs to sit all day long, leggings are a Godsend.
I believe in freedom. I’ll wear what I want wherever I want. If I ever visit you in Rome, I’ll be wearing my leggings there too. Rules against leggings are super sexist, stupid, and backwards. People should just wear what they want and be comfortable. Don’t wanna see my big fat butt? TOO BAD.
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People in Rome wear leggings all the time. I do too. But I know when they're not appropriate. What do you wear to a wedding for instance? Are you going to wear the above?
When my waistband digs in, I think maybe I should lose some weight--but that's just me.
Almost all women have curves. That terminology means nothing. It's just clickbait.6 -
IMO it's one thing in the club where the vibe is "Look at me!" but a whole 'nuther thing in the workplace. The best work advice I've ever heard was, "The most important thing is simply not to become a distraction." It's nothing to do with body-shaming, it's all about being respectful of your co-workers and clients.
No thank you. I will continue to wear whatever feels comfy and if you are distracted by my butt that’s a YOU problem.
I have to agree with this. People need to take responsibility for their own "distraction" and stop pretending they somehow can't control their eyes. We have a couple older guys in the office who seem to find any female young enough to be their daughter distracting, regardless of what she's wearing.
Leggings fall along a really broad spectrum from cheap-looking to dressy-looking. I have some designer brand leggings in heavier fabric that aren't significantly different from "skinny" style pants.
Last year I walked around the office with a ruptured appendix for 11 weeks. You can bet that abdomen wasn't going into my regular pants. I showed up in leggings and yoga pants the whole time, plus about four weeks post-surgery after I got the thing removed. Very few people were aware of my medical situation yet nobody complained that I was inappropriate or "distracting". Although it probably helps that I'm old 0 -
Hmmm. I'd be very comfortable indeed showing up to work in pyjamas, robe and bedroom slippers. I could then churlishly argue that 'everything is covered - so what's the problem?!'
Wonder how that would go? 🤔 🤣
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AtomicLemon wrote: »littleswissarmyhouse wrote: »I don’t really understand why someone would want jeans when leggings are an option.
Because some women want to look elegant and put together. I don't want to look like I'm on my way to the gym, or just rolled out of bed. Leggings look cheap no matter how you style them. They're basically just really thick tights. A nice pair of dark wash denim is always classic and stylish.
Jeans look "elegant and put together", "classic and stylish"? Not where I live, or at least those aren't descriptions I'd choose. Sure, jeans are great for everyday wear, out in public, and even in some workplaces. They look nice. In my larger context - maybe not yours - jeans are still casual wear.snowflake954 wrote: »Not really because you can lose your job. There is a balance in all things.
Here is America leggings are accepted as normal everyday pants. I wore leggings to the office all the time - so did all my coworkers under 40! They are totally acceptable these days. Everything is covered so what is the problem?
So what if they show the shape of my curves? I am a woman. I have a curvy body. Deal with it!! I think it’s very sexist that I need to wear uncomfortable office clothes just because my body is curvy.
Only old people have an issue with leggings.
(snip)
Oh, please. Don't stereotype. I'm objectively pretty old (67) and think leggings are fine. I wore them when I was obese (mostly for workouts, but also to stores, restaurants and such after workouts). I wear them now, and now that I'm thinner I have some relatively dressy ones - corduroy, trouser-weight knits, etc. that are good for everyday out and about wear, and some business casual type contexts. I've been eyeing some velvet ones for the holidays, and all that's holding me back is the lint-gathering aspect.
I didn't wear leggings much beyond workouts when I was fat, because I didn't like how they looked on me with more fitted tops then, thought they looked better with tunics over, and I'm not really a tunic person.
What I do think is a little odd is that I know some people IRL (age irrelevant) who think that closely fitting rather matronly stretchy ponte or other knit pants are fine, with a slight flare, straight legs, maybe even a boot cut, but leggings are some kind of offense against humanity. Being tight all the way to the ankle makes what difference, exactly? I get that it can make a difference in the proportions of an overall outfit on a particular body, but the sentiment from those folks is that the snug stretchy matron pants are fine, but the leggings are some form of immorality. 🙄
To be clear, I'm not saying that's what any of you here think or have said, I'm saying I've heard the like from people IRL. It seems weird to me.
P.S. Admittedly, I may put jeans in a more limited orbit partly because of my age. When I was young, jeans were seen as dungarees, work wear for tough jobs, then later what the hippies wore (NB I was a hippie). Tailored trousers were more the thing in my youth, for women not wearing dresses/skirts, and the latter were much more common to see in daily life then vs. now. I'm not saying we need to go back to that time, either, just that it's doubtless colored my perception. I wear both jeans and leggings very regularly these days, skirts nearly never. Overall, expectations about public dress have become much, much more casual than they were back in the day. Emmy, that may explain some of your older colleagues' reaction, perhaps.
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AtomicLemon wrote: »littleswissarmyhouse wrote: »I don’t really understand why someone would want jeans when leggings are an option.
Because some women want to look elegant and put together. I don't want to look like I'm on my way to the gym, or just rolled out of bed. Leggings look cheap no matter how you style them. They're basically just really thick tights. A nice pair of dark wash denim is always classic and stylish.
Jeans look "elegant and put together", "classic and stylish"? Not where I live, or at least those aren't descriptions I'd choose. Sure, jeans are great for everyday wear, out in public, and even in some workplaces. They look nice. In my larger context - maybe not yours - jeans are still casual wear.snowflake954 wrote: »Not really because you can lose your job. There is a balance in all things.
Here is America leggings are accepted as normal everyday pants. I wore leggings to the office all the time - so did all my coworkers under 40! They are totally acceptable these days. Everything is covered so what is the problem?
So what if they show the shape of my curves? I am a woman. I have a curvy body. Deal with it!! I think it’s very sexist that I need to wear uncomfortable office clothes just because my body is curvy.
Only old people have an issue with leggings.
(snip)
Oh, please. Don't stereotype. I'm objectively pretty old (67) and think leggings are fine. I wore them when I was obese (mostly for workouts, but also to stores, restaurants and such after workouts). I wear them now, and now that I'm thinner I have some relatively dressy ones - corduroy, trouser-weight knits, etc. that are good for everyday out and about wear, and some business casual type contexts. I've been eyeing some velvet ones for the holidays, and all that's holding me back is the lint-gathering aspect.
I didn't wear leggings much beyond workouts when I was fat, because I didn't like how they looked on me with more fitted tops then, thought they looked better with tunics over, and I'm not really a tunic person.
What I do think is a little odd is that I know some people IRL (age irrelevant) who think that closely fitting rather matronly stretchy ponte or other knit pants are fine, with a slight flare, straight legs, maybe even a boot cut, but leggings are some kind of offense against humanity. Being tight all the way to the ankle makes what difference, exactly? I get that it can make a difference in the proportions of an overall outfit on a particular body, but the sentiment from those folks is that the snug stretchy matron pants are fine, but the leggings are some form of immorality. 🙄
To be clear, I'm not saying that's what any of you here think or have said, I'm saying I've heard the like from people IRL. It seems weird to me.
P.S. Admittedly, I may put jeans in a more limited orbit partly because of my age. When I was young, jeans were seen as dungarees, work wear for tough jobs, then later what the hippies wore (NB I was a hippie). Tailored trousers were more the thing in my youth, for women not wearing dresses/skirts, and the latter were much more common to see in daily life then vs. now. I'm not saying we need to go back to that time, either, just that it's doubtless colored my perception. I wear both jeans and leggings very regularly these days, skirts nearly never. Overall, expectations about public dress have become much, much more casual than they were back in the day. Emmy, that may explain some of your older colleagues' reaction, perhaps.
Awww Ann. Don't you remember when Vanderbuilt jeans came out? They were expensive and stylish and hugged your figure and completely changed the jeans look. I was a career woman at the time and loved them. I didn't wear them to the office (we had dress codes back then) but wore them everywhere else.
Now, being "older" I still wear stylish jeans everywhere and with everything--except weddings and dress up occasions, and to the gym I wear leggings. I grew up on a farm and there our jeans were the dungaree type--serviceable.1 -
I too am old enough to remember when jeans were exclusively hippie/work wear not allowed in most schools. I also remember the advent of designer jeans. In my workplace, only dark black/brown jeans are acceptable as business casual along with looser leggings made from thicker fabrics and matched with longer tops. However, somehow make-up artists are always exempted. 🤣
I imagine it also depends on one's workplace and general geography. Obviously there are places where the People of Walmart look gets filed under 'you do you!' without a second thought. I've worked in Texas where the elegant and classic jean look appears for almost any occasion; the ladies there can pull it off brilliantly.1 -
snowflake954 wrote: »AtomicLemon wrote: »littleswissarmyhouse wrote: »I don’t really understand why someone would want jeans when leggings are an option.
Because some women want to look elegant and put together. I don't want to look like I'm on my way to the gym, or just rolled out of bed. Leggings look cheap no matter how you style them. They're basically just really thick tights. A nice pair of dark wash denim is always classic and stylish.
Jeans look "elegant and put together", "classic and stylish"? Not where I live, or at least those aren't descriptions I'd choose. Sure, jeans are great for everyday wear, out in public, and even in some workplaces. They look nice. In my larger context - maybe not yours - jeans are still casual wear.snowflake954 wrote: »Not really because you can lose your job. There is a balance in all things.
Here is America leggings are accepted as normal everyday pants. I wore leggings to the office all the time - so did all my coworkers under 40! They are totally acceptable these days. Everything is covered so what is the problem?
So what if they show the shape of my curves? I am a woman. I have a curvy body. Deal with it!! I think it’s very sexist that I need to wear uncomfortable office clothes just because my body is curvy.
Only old people have an issue with leggings.
(snip)
Oh, please. Don't stereotype. I'm objectively pretty old (67) and think leggings are fine. I wore them when I was obese (mostly for workouts, but also to stores, restaurants and such after workouts). I wear them now, and now that I'm thinner I have some relatively dressy ones - corduroy, trouser-weight knits, etc. that are good for everyday out and about wear, and some business casual type contexts. I've been eyeing some velvet ones for the holidays, and all that's holding me back is the lint-gathering aspect.
I didn't wear leggings much beyond workouts when I was fat, because I didn't like how they looked on me with more fitted tops then, thought they looked better with tunics over, and I'm not really a tunic person.
What I do think is a little odd is that I know some people IRL (age irrelevant) who think that closely fitting rather matronly stretchy ponte or other knit pants are fine, with a slight flare, straight legs, maybe even a boot cut, but leggings are some kind of offense against humanity. Being tight all the way to the ankle makes what difference, exactly? I get that it can make a difference in the proportions of an overall outfit on a particular body, but the sentiment from those folks is that the snug stretchy matron pants are fine, but the leggings are some form of immorality. 🙄
To be clear, I'm not saying that's what any of you here think or have said, I'm saying I've heard the like from people IRL. It seems weird to me.
P.S. Admittedly, I may put jeans in a more limited orbit partly because of my age. When I was young, jeans were seen as dungarees, work wear for tough jobs, then later what the hippies wore (NB I was a hippie). Tailored trousers were more the thing in my youth, for women not wearing dresses/skirts, and the latter were much more common to see in daily life then vs. now. I'm not saying we need to go back to that time, either, just that it's doubtless colored my perception. I wear both jeans and leggings very regularly these days, skirts nearly never. Overall, expectations about public dress have become much, much more casual than they were back in the day. Emmy, that may explain some of your older colleagues' reaction, perhaps.
Awww Ann. Don't you remember when Vanderbuilt jeans came out? They were expensive and stylish and hugged your figure and completely changed the jeans look. I was a career woman at the time and loved them. I didn't wear them to the office (we had dress codes back then) but wore them everywhere else.
Now, being "older" I still wear stylish jeans everywhere and with everything--except weddings and dress up occasions, and to the gym I wear leggings. I grew up on a farm and there our jeans were the dungaree type--serviceable.
I do. They're still casual wear in my book, then and now. In some offices, they'll meet the "business casual" definition, and where I worked for 30 years (in higher education) they were fine any day. Overall, casual wear has become acceptable in more and more locations and situations. I wear jeans a lot myself - commonest thing to wear outside my house, though workout gear comes close.0 -
I too am old enough to remember when jeans were exclusively hippie/work wear not allowed in most schools. I also remember the advent of designer jeans. In my workplace, only dark black/brown jeans are acceptable as business casual along with looser leggings made from thicker fabrics and matched with longer tops. However, somehow make-up artists are always exempted. 🤣
I imagine it also depends on one's workplace and general geography. Obviously there are places where the People of Walmart look gets filed under 'you do you!' without a second thought. I've worked in Texas where the elegant and classic jean look appears for almost any occasion; the ladies there can pull it off brilliantly.
Here we call it "casual elegance" and the Italians too, are able to pull it off.
Someone might get the idea that I'm against leggings--far from it. I love a woman that can take the figure that she has and pull off a look that is enviable, no matter what she chooses to wear. Fat or thin or in between, I've seen women (and men) that know how to fit into any situation.1 -
Hmmm. I'd be very comfortable indeed showing up to work in pyjamas, robe and bedroom slippers. I could then churlishly argue that 'everything is covered - so what's the problem?!'
Wonder how that would go? 🤔 🤣
If you worked for UPS, (in the hub, not so much as a driver) only the footwear would be an issue, for safety reasons. There was a dude in my facility who had the nickname "Pajama Dan" because he did, in fact, wear pajamas to work. Frequently. There are a whole spectrum of dress codes. Leggings were acceptable there, as well - but not tank tops. The next job I had, in a plastics factory, tank tops were fine. Now I assemble switches, and leggings are still acceptable, but tank tops are off limits again. I could probably get away with pajamas, but I tend to be plenty comfortable even sitting all day in jeans. I believe there's a limit to how high of a heel I'm allowed to wear at the current job, but I wear sneakers anyway, so I never made a note of it.2 -
I absolutely love Gloria Vanderbilt jeans. Although I am short, I am long from the crotch to the waist. Most pants have the "new fit," which has a lower waist line. If you have a belly, the lower waist line rolls down. The Gloria Vanderbilt Amanda jeans have a more classic fit and a waist line actually fits at my waist line. Even if you have a big belly, you need a smaller waist line on pants. I ordered a couple pairs on Amazon -- size 14. They fit perfect (except for having to hem them). Went to order a third pair in coral in the same size, same brand, same model, and there was no way I could zip them up. I totally agree that the new sizing runs much larger than it used to. When I weighed 149 pounds, I fit in a size 14. I now weigh 185 and wear a size 14; and sometimes fit in a size 12. Thank goodness for Amazon Prime and free returns!!!!1
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