Prostate Cancer, Hormone Therapy and Weight

Peter_P53

I'm currently having Hormone Therapy for Prostate Cancer and trying to lose some weight. I originally let MFP set my daily calorie allowance, but I've been struggling to see any weight loss. I've now decided to manually set my daily allowance to 1320, down from 1520 MFP suggested, a small difference I know, but I hope it might help.

Is there anyone else out there who have had the same issue and succeeded?

ciaoder

I wish you the very best. Have you put the question to your doctors?

Bridgie3

I'm on 1310 and it's over the minimum 1200 so it won't do you any harm... but please also note that when your lifestyle changes you can retain water (in muscles from walking) or food in your gut from eating more fibre, and these can hide fat loss from you and make you feel you are not losing 'weight'.

I say you, I really mean me. I have to trust the process, and sometimes I don't. I have to remind myself frequently if nothing shifts on the scales: i'm changing not size but composition, today. And at some point, the changes will gel and I'll climb on here and have lost 2kg.

That's how it always works out. If you need 2200 calories a day to survive and you eat 1500 then you are losing 700 calories of fat a day whether that shows on the scales or not, and at 3500 calories in a pound, that's a reasonable slice. don't be disheartened. The laws of physics are your friend.

SuzySunshine99

Bridgie3 wrote: »

I'm on 1310 and it's over the minimum 1200 so it won't do you any harm... but please also note that when your lifestyle changes you can retain water (in muscles from walking) or food in your gut from eating more fibre, and these can hide fat loss from you and make you feel you are not losing 'weight'.

I say you, I really mean me. I have to trust the process, and sometimes I don't. I have to remind myself frequently if nothing shifts on the scales: i'm changing not size but composition, today. And at some point, the changes will gel and I'll climb on here and have lost 2kg.

That's how it always works out. If you need 2200 calories a day to survive and you eat 1500 then you are losing 700 calories of fat a day whether that shows on the scales or not, and at 3500 calories in a pound, that's a reasonable slice. don't be disheartened. The laws of physics are your friend.

Just a note that the 1200 minimum is for women. OP is a man, so 1500 is the lowest MFP will recommend.

Bridgie3

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

Bridgie3 wrote: »

I'm on 1310 and it's over the minimum 1200 so it won't do you any harm... but please also note that when your lifestyle changes you can retain water (in muscles from walking) or food in your gut from eating more fibre, and these can hide fat loss from you and make you feel you are not losing 'weight'.

I say you, I really mean me. I have to trust the process, and sometimes I don't. I have to remind myself frequently if nothing shifts on the scales: i'm changing not size but composition, today. And at some point, the changes will gel and I'll climb on here and have lost 2kg.

That's how it always works out. If you need 2200 calories a day to survive and you eat 1500 then you are losing 700 calories of fat a day whether that shows on the scales or not, and at 3500 calories in a pound, that's a reasonable slice. don't be disheartened. The laws of physics are your friend.

Just a note that the 1200 minimum is for women. OP is a man, so 1500 is the lowest MFP will recommend.

Point taken, but - I often eat 1000 calories a day (high fat, just don't get that hungry). MFP has its obligations to follow the received wisdom but possibly if someone's got cancer, which is often linked to overweight, then losing weight may be a higher priority and short term potential to lose nutrients may be something that can be overcome in other ways.

I accept what you're saying tho - and he defo should be chatting to his specialist about this given the cancer. And his height and bone density should probably get calculated into it too.

I remember the pritikin diet I went on in the 80s, they thought that cancer cells would be eaten first if you fasted. pritikin was all about only eating things the plant jettisoned on its own, ie seeds/fruits. but the idea of cancer cells being eaten first always appealed to me. It argued that you reuse protein in your body if you are not eating enough protein; you scavenge internally. I guess it's probably bollocks, but maybe there's a kernel of truth in there. A doctor would know.

sollyn23l2

Bridgie3 wrote: »

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

Bridgie3 wrote: »

I'm on 1310 and it's over the minimum 1200 so it won't do you any harm... but please also note that when your lifestyle changes you can retain water (in muscles from walking) or food in your gut from eating more fibre, and these can hide fat loss from you and make you feel you are not losing 'weight'.

I say you, I really mean me. I have to trust the process, and sometimes I don't. I have to remind myself frequently if nothing shifts on the scales: i'm changing not size but composition, today. And at some point, the changes will gel and I'll climb on here and have lost 2kg.

That's how it always works out. If you need 2200 calories a day to survive and you eat 1500 then you are losing 700 calories of fat a day whether that shows on the scales or not, and at 3500 calories in a pound, that's a reasonable slice. don't be disheartened. The laws of physics are your friend.

Just a note that the 1200 minimum is for women. OP is a man, so 1500 is the lowest MFP will recommend.

Point taken, but - I often eat 1000 calories a day (high fat, just don't get that hungry). MFP has its obligations to follow the received wisdom but possibly if someone's got cancer, which is often linked to overweight, then losing weight may be a higher priority and short term potential to lose nutrients may be something that can be overcome in other ways.

I accept what you're saying tho - and he defo should be chatting to his specialist about this given the cancer. And his height and bone density should probably get calculated into it too.

I remember the pritikin diet I went on in the 80s, they thought that cancer cells would be eaten first if you fasted. pritikin was all about only eating things the plant jettisoned on its own, ie seeds/fruits. but the idea of cancer cells being eaten first always appealed to me. It argued that you reuse protein in your body if you are not eating enough protein; you scavenge internally. I guess it's probably bollocks, but maybe there's a kernel of truth in there. A doctor would know.

There's most likely truth to the idea that your body reuses its own protein sources when low on protein. Or calories in general really. The "scientific" term is autophagy. It's really interesting, actually.

AnnPT77

OP, has your oncologist endorsed your efforts to lose weight, or given any guidance about how to do so most safely in your case?

Also, were you or are you being treated via a cancer center that has a oncology-focused registered dietitian (RD) on staff, or will your oncologist refer you for a consultation with an independent RD with relevant expertise?

That would be the ideal way to go, if it's at all viable, vs. taking advice from us random idiots on the internet. Sometimes, in a big cancer center, there will be a staff RD, but you don't get referred to them unless you ask for dietary help.

When I was undergoing cancer treatment, I found the RD at my cancer center extremely helpful. I did have hormonal therapy, but for breast cancer, not prostate cancer, so different meds with different effects. IMU, either type of hormonal therapy can potentially have effects on body weight or body composition (some of them indirect, i.e., more able to be mitigated via dietary strategies or (less delightfully) additional meds).

I admit, I'm skeptical that you should need to reduce your calorie intake below what would be recommended as a minimum for men, unless you're of very small stature, but I'm just another random idiot on the internet. (My thought process is that a steep calorie deficit is a physical stress; excess body weight is also potentially a physical stress, too (so there are tradeoffs); implication is that additional physical stressors during treatment need to be managed carefully.)

Also, excellent nutrition is also a positive thing (though there may be special dietary strategies recommend for particular scenarios); excellent nutrition requires some calories. Add to that the potential for any medication to affect scale weight via water retention (masking fat loss) or fatigue (reducing calorie expenditure), and the questions get very complicated very fast.

I think it's fine that you're asking here for input from people who've actually been through the very same thing, but I'd encourage you to be cautious about believing that even experienced others have the scientific/medical details right, and for sure I'd encourage you to ignore advice from people who don't have relevant experience but read about some theory somewhere. Even generic weight loss advice that would be good advice in different (100% healthy person) situations, might not be suitable in your case.

My advice - at least the part I think is semi-authoritative - is to make an effort to consult with an oncology-specialized registered dietitian. I have done that, and it was exceedingly helpful.

yirara

I would not go down that much. Your body is undergoing treatment and needs energy to do so. Like others have stated: discuss this with a dietician associated with your treatment center that knows about your cancer and treatment. They might be able to give you more advice.

I don't know what your hormone therapy entails, but it won't mean your body is burning less energy. it's more likely impatience on your part (how long are you dieting now?), water weight gain (hormones do that), a lot less activity due to dieting and being sick (then going down in calories is bad!), and not logging precisely enough.

AnnPT77

yirara wrote: »

I would not go down that much. Your body is undergoing treatment and needs energy to do so. Like others have stated: discuss this with a dietician associated with your treatment center that knows about your cancer and treatment. They might be able to give you more advice.

I don't know what your hormone therapy entails, but it won't mean your body is burning less energy. it's more likely impatience on your part (how long are you dieting now?), water weight gain (hormones do that), a lot less activity due to dieting and being sick (then going down in calories is bad!), and not logging precisely enough.

Welllll, to the bolded . . . I don't really want to get into it here, because I'm an ignoramus about it, but this is a case where it might.

It probably wouldn't be dramatic, just a small, gradual thing (so I do suspect OP might be undereating). ADT has kind of complicated metabolic effects.

Which is why OP really ought to seek out an oncology RD, or at least hear from men who've actually done ADT (for support more than medical advice).

yirara

AnnPT77 wrote: »

yirara wrote: »

I would not go down that much. Your body is undergoing treatment and needs energy to do so. Like others have stated: discuss this with a dietician associated with your treatment center that knows about your cancer and treatment. They might be able to give you more advice.

I don't know what your hormone therapy entails, but it won't mean your body is burning less energy. it's more likely impatience on your part (how long are you dieting now?), water weight gain (hormones do that), a lot less activity due to dieting and being sick (then going down in calories is bad!), and not logging precisely enough.

Welllll, to the bolded . . . I don't really want to get into it here, because I'm an ignoramus about it, but this is a case where it might.

It probably wouldn't be dramatic, just a small, gradual thing (so I do suspect OP might be undereating). ADT has kind of complicated metabolic effects.

Which is why OP really ought to seek out an oncology RD, or at least hear from men who've actually done ADT (for support more than medical advice).

Ok, it might be a bit. But not so much to need to go town below 1500 calories. TO really needs to discuss with a dietician, and give his body energy to fight the cancer though.