Starting the Carnivore Diet
Gator4RTR
Posts: 119 Member
I am starting the Carnivore Diet and trying it for 30 days. I have read good things about how it can help me with a couple of health issues I am having. Are there any tips I need to know about that may not be discussed in books or in the YouTube videos? TIA
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This diet is heavily promoted. It is not heart healthy. Any diet that glorifies one macro and dismisses another is not a longevity meal plan. I don't wantvto discourage you from doing something for improving your health however I would say you may want to consider other things like heart health, LDL, Colon cancer, vascular disease. We need greens, vegetables and fruits. We need adequate protein and yes we do need some carbohydrates. How much of each is unique to us.
Please consider this advice. I learned through trial and error. Watching endless clients in personal training customers in the healthful store I work and friends.
Too much meat places harm on kidneys, liver and digestion
Look into The Blue Zones. These are people who live to be 100.
I did a carnivore type diet and got ripped. I also had developed gallbladder issues and high cholesterol. After that I went plant based pescatarian for a long time. That improved my numbers drastically6 -
Don't ask here; you're gonna get a bunch of nonsense.Look into The Blue Zones. These are people who live to be 100.
Those findings were fraudulent:
https://www.livescience.com/oldest-people-may-not-be-so-old.html2 -
feisty_bucket wrote: »Don't ask here; you're gonna get a bunch of nonsense.Look into The Blue Zones. These are people who live to be 100.
Those findings were fraudulent:
https://www.livescience.com/oldest-people-may-not-be-so-old.html
The bottom line is the carnivore diet is not healthy, heart healthy Orford cancer. Decades of prof are on hundreds of peer reviewed science journals.
Stip listening to some dude claiming to have answers to getvyou tomorrow a program so he or she can profit8 -
[feisty_bucket wrote: »Don't ask here; you're gonna get a bunch of nonsense.
The bottom line is the carnivore diet is not healthy, heart healthy Orford cancer. Decades of prof are on hundreds of peer reviewed science journals.
Stip listening to some dude claiming to have answers to getvyou tomorrow a program so he or she can profit
A Medical Doctor just yesterday put me on a high protein 2000 Cal diet that very closely imitates the Carnivore Diet w/ lower fat content. This is to strengthen and build Muscle, because you can't do this with Fruits and Vegetables, we can get some nutrients with Fruits and Vegetables, but the real bottom-line is we are Carnivores and we need meat way more than we do fruits and vegetables. My suggestion would be to talk to your Doctor about the Carnivore Diet, then make your decision on trying it or not armed with information from a real professional, your Doctor.0 -
dsplace2010 wrote: »[
A Medical Doctor just yesterday put me on a high protein 2000 Cal diet that very closely imitates the Carnivore Diet w/ lower fat content. This is to strengthen and build Muscle, because you can't do this with Fruits and Vegetables, we can get some nutrients with Fruits and Vegetables, but the real bottom-line is we are Carnivores and we need meat way more than we do fruits and vegetables. My suggestion would be to talk to your Doctor about the Carnivore Diet, then make your decision on trying it or not armed with information from a real professional, your Doctor.feisty_bucket wrote: »Don't ask here; you're gonna get a bunch of nonsense.
The bottom line is the carnivore diet is not healthy, heart healthy Orford cancer. Decades of prof are on hundreds of peer reviewed science journals.
Stip listening to some dude claiming to have answers to getvyou tr omorrow a program so he or she can profit
I agree with the idea that people with their doctors about diet, but would point out that most doctors receive only a few hours of nutritional education. Registered dietitians are the actual trained experts.
If your doctor wants you on a carnivore-ish diet, and you want to eat that way, that's swell.
The idea that people eating only plants can't get adequate protein is nonsense, though. It's just not true. Is it a little more difficult fully plant based, in the sense that one needs to pay a little more attention to protein quality? Sure. But it's not even hard.
Humans are adaptive omnivores. Across history and geography, human societies have thrived (to ages old enough to breed, obviously, at least), on every kind of eating from all plants to all meats/fish. Extremes may not be optimal, but they can be quite viable.
Truth in advertising: I don't eat fully plant based. I'm vegetarian, and have been for 48 years now. I eat dairy and a small amount of eggs, but I get a lot of my protein from plants. I have no difficulty getting the levels of protein that most sensible bodybuilders aspire to (though I'm not a bodybuilder either, just active). I know enough about fully plant-based eating to say that I could get that much protein eating only plant-sourced foods.
You are misinformed about plant-sourced protein. That is not a critique of you or OP undertaking a carnivore diet. If you thrive eating that way, I think that's great, sincerely.
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If you consume a diet now that would be considered 'balanced' with carbs higher as a percentage of your macros then 30 days might be a good transitional measure to lower your carb intake so that the final transition is easier. With that in mind I suggest more of a 90 day intervention.
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[/quote] The bottom line is the carnivore diet is not healthy, heart healthy Orford cancer. Decades of prof are on hundreds of peer reviewed science journals.
Stip listening to some dude claiming to have answers to getvyou tomorrow a program so he or she can profit[/quote]
I still waiting for the study that shows animal protein to be the causality for heart disease or cancer.
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I've been looking into this for a while and have seen plenty of evidence which suggests that a plant-based diet is more favourable to human health than a carnivore or omnivore diet. As always, this comes with a couple of disclaimers. It is absolutely possible to live and eat healthily with an omnivore diet; maybe even with a purely carnivore diet (although I'm not 100% certain on this one. Seems like you're missing a lot of nutrients here but I haven't looked into this too much). Yet research suggests that a healthy whole food plant based diet is usually healthier than a healthy and balanced omnivore diet. I try to give an overview and studies from a couple of perspectives below.
Second caveat is that diets are highly unique and personal. The point, in my opinion, still stands that a plant-based diet should be favourable but tolerance and response to certain foods does differ from person to person. This is why opinions are so split when it comes to choosing the right diet. Response to a new diet also depends on your previous diet, of course. Some people claim that they feel better when they incorporate more meat in their diet, but sometimes these effects come from having eaten a lot of processed foods in the past which that person may have eliminated in the process. One example. Food response is also affected by the gut microbiome; as the bacteria in your gut process the nutrients from the foods you digest. If you have eaten a crappy diet for a long time, your microbiome may have to adapt and reintroduce those healthy bacteria first. Another example.
Lastly, there is no food that *causes* a disease. Similarly, there is no food that cures a disease. All we can say is that eating a certain way increases or decreases the chance of developing X. Aside from sheer chance, genetics and lifestyle play an important role in your overall risk too.
Food is a personal matter to most. Nobody likes to be told what they're supposed to eat. I believe balance is the key - and I still eat fish from time to time too, because currently I don't want to miss it. Hence, while I believe the plant based diet to be the healthiest, I'm not trying to push anybody to make this step. But I always try to share what I've learned over the years; maybe it helps some people find some clarity.
Microbiome diversity has shown to be a good predictor of health. Generally, the more diverse your microbiome, the more resistant you are to certain diseases such as cancer and metabolic diseases. The positive effects of your microbiome are associated with bacteria which process fibres into short-chain fatty acids. That means, the more fibre (and the more diverse your fibre source), the better. There is virtually no fibre in meat.
Both in human and animal studies, it appears that a plant-based diet is associated with a decrease in mortality with regard to most diseases; usually more so than is observed with a diet higher in animal products
For a more complete picture, this is one of the few carnivore studies I found which centres around the health perceptions of carnivores
And I will also add those which suggest that increased meat intake may be associated with early onset of rheumatoid arthritis and risk of ulcerative colitis
This post is already way longer than I had intended but I hope this serves as a nice introduction, at least from the plant-based perspective. I appreciate a lot of them are self-reported/observational studies and every study has its limitations; but maybe these trends help shine light and eventually, we have to decide for ourselves if we're convinced.3 -
My personal bias up front is I eat meat. All of the sources you provided are epidemiological and/or observational, which doesn't prove risk only association with literally hundreds of confounders in these types of studies. Also by saying an all plant based diet is a more favorable diet for humans thriving, isn't based on any evidence that I'm aware of and to the contrary early hominins as far back as australopithecus 3 million years ago consumed animal protein.
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I'm another skeptic that a plant-based diet is more favorable to health than an omnivorous diet.
I've been vegetarian for over 48 years. I don't eat meat.
A fully plant based diet is inherently deficient in at least one essential nutrient, vitamin B-12. (Yes, it can be supplemented.) There are other nutrients in which a plant based diet tends to be low, or in which the nutrient is likely to be poorly absorbed, unless one pays careful attention. These includes calcium and iron, among others. (Again, these nutrients can either be supplemented, or in some cases very targeted strategies can be used to maximize intake/absorption).
None of those things prevent a plant-based diet from being healthful, it just takes a little more knowledge and attention, plus possibly supplementation. I'm not suggesting people should not eat fully plant-based diets.
In contrast, an omnivorous diet can get the essential nutrients from foods. Yes, it still takes knowledge and attention to optimize, but it's IMO inarguably easier to design a healthy omnivorous diet than a healthy plant-based diet.
Statistically common omnivorous diets are often not all that healthful. Just eating meat plus whatever - that doesn't create healthy diet just because meat is in there. In particular, IMU recent research is suggesting that we should be eating much more of veggies and fruits than the old-school 5-a-day recommendations . . . and most people don't even get the 5. IOW, nearly everyone would be better off if they got more veggies and fruits (and it's likely that eating strategies high in veggies and fruits will be beneficial to health). That doesn't mean people need to stop eating meat.
Yes, there's some evidence suggesting that certain kinds of processed meats and perhaps even red meats can have some down-sides. IMU, that's been more about long-term eating patterns, not a suggestion that every person would be better off if they ate no processed meats or red meats ever.
IMO, there are quite a few web sites and organizations now that engage in vegan advocacy for ethical reasons, and some are willing to distort or misrepresent the evidence to make their case. In some instances, such sites or sources are sponsored by individuals who have a major financial stake in companies that sell vegan food products. Sure, maybe their advocacy and their creating such companies both come from an ethically sound position . . . but there's a conflict of interest wound up in there that makes me cautious.
I'm not going to make an argument that the carnivore diet is great. I'm skeptical about it for some of the same reasons I'm skeptical about fully plant-based. However, I have zero interest in carnivore personally, so I haven't researched it carefully. As a vegetarian who gets a good chunk of her protein from plant sources, I need to be reasonably well-informed about plant-based nutrition for my own health's sake, so I'm more willing to engage on that front.
I think it's easier to create a healthful omnivorous diet than a healthful fully plant-based diet. I also think most people would be better off health-wise if they ate lots of varied, colorful veggies and fruits. Just my opinions.
ETA: Why am I posting this? I think there are many excellent reasons to choose a vegetarian or fully plant-based diet. I think that "more healthful" is not one of them. I feel like people overselling either of vegetarianism or plant-based eating makes the entire community - me included - look foolish, frankly.
When someone starts a thread about how they want to try plant based eating, I think it's borderline offensive when someone comes on the thread and tells them not to do it because they (that poster) have a better diet (be it carnivore or whatever) and that plant-based is bad/wrong. Someone coming on a "want to try carnivore" thread and doing plant-based advocacy strikes me similarly. Again, that's just my opinion.7 -
Re epidemiological/observational studies - True. It is difficult to design a study that takes all possible influencing factors into effect, especially over larger periods of time. This is often the best we can do. I'm not saying this is unanimous proof that a plant based diet is healthier/better, but the trends they showcase were enough for me to be convinced that eating plant-based likely is the right choice. Again, everybody has to decide this for themselves.
Also want to say - absolutely true that in a long-term plant-based diets a few nutrients will have to be supplemented. And I agree that it's possible to live healthy on an omnivore diet; maybe healthier if you would be unhappy or struggling with either the flavours or limitations of a PB diet. Hardly any diet is consistently perfect, so the studies may reflect either extreme cases or short term effects. They often compare the ideal PB diet with the ideal or average omnivore/carnivore diet. For me, I'm willing to (eventually) make the effort to supplement, and prefer the taste of whole foods more. And I believe in this case you probably end up health*ier*. But if meat helps you stay off processed foods, then this is of course fine too. You do what works best for you.
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Re epidemiological/observational studies - True. It is difficult to design a study that takes all possible influencing factors into effect, especially over larger periods of time. This is often the best we can do. I'm not saying this is unanimous proof that a plant based diet is healthier/better, but the trends they showcase were enough for me to be convinced that eating plant-based likely is the right choice. Again, everybody has to decide this for themselves.
Also want to say - absolutely true that in a long-term plant-based diets a few nutrients will have to be supplemented. And I agree that it's possible to live healthy on an omnivore diet; maybe healthier if you would be unhappy or struggling with either the flavours or limitations of a PB diet. Hardly any diet is consistently perfect, so the studies may reflect either extreme cases or short term effects. They often compare the ideal PB diet with the ideal or average omnivore/carnivore diet. For me, I'm willing to (eventually) make the effort to supplement, and prefer the taste of whole foods more. And I believe in this case you probably end up health*ier*. But if meat helps you stay off processed foods, then this is of course fine too. You do what works best for you.
Why would you think an animal based diet can't be based in whole foods and believe a plant based diet is by default a whole foods diet. I think that what your inferring and I find that strange. The vast majority of ultra and heavily processed foods are derived from plant material and contribute the most to chronic inflammation and disease but that doesn't mean that plant food is bad per se, it's about context and dosage. I also can't infer more the complete and utter nonsense epidemiology in nutrition is, and one of the main reasons nutrition is a minefield of misinformation. You simply can't attach risk to something without an intervention where you have a control, and when talking mortality, that intervention needs to last for decades and to the very end, which is impossible, period. You can hypothesis a possible outcome and design a suitable intervention to prove an hypothesis, but that's about it. What we do have where risk is assessed are RCT's and in nutrition they're very short in time so again we still can't infer longevity or mortality. Epidemiological studies are crack to main stream media and agenda's like veganism for example. Basically it's the weapon of mass confusion. imo.2 -
Maybe poor phrasing. I don't believe that a plant based diet is by default a whole foods diet or that an omnivore diet doesn't include any or a healthy amount of whole foods. The reason I keep mentioning whole foods is that this is what I associate with the benefits of the plant based diet; not necessarily vegetarianism/veganism per se as I know these can be very unhealthy/unbalanced too depending on the person and what they choose to consume. And this is also why I'm saying it is absolutely possible to live healthy on an omnivore diet too. The only thing I believe is, according to the studies and trends I've seen is that I think a balanced wholefood plant-based diet is healthier than a balanced wholefood omnivore diet. But the bigger picture? Both are probably very healthy; much healthier than other more restrictive diets and diets which include processed foods and so on.
And based on what you said, I don't think there is one study that proves it all either. As mentioned above, I don't see these as absolute truths. But I find these trends compelling. There are numerous, independent studies which look at the mortality of omnivores vs. vegetarians or vegans; which look at how an uptake in fibre influences disease outcome or occurrence, which compare the overall health of populations in which certain diets are prevalent. And they all seem to come to similar conclusions. A plant based diet might not be the ultimate cure or absolutely necessary to be healthy, but it seems to have influence enough for me to increase whichever small odds. I haven't seen as many studies which argue the opposite, rather studies which remain inconclusive.0 -
I think one of the confusing assessments that are conferred in these studies that generate all the confusion is associating the highest percentile of disease with people that eat the most meat. That particular demographic where disease is the highest also participate in a lifestyle that would be considered unhealthy to begin, so you end up with an association that can easily be manipulated to mean just about anything an author is trying to find. The confounders are always said to be a adjusted for which on it's own is disingenuous because again you would need a intervention and a control for each confounders to determine it's eventual outcome, so algorithms are used and the inputs are no better than an educated guess at best and a lie at worst to support why they're getting funded for the testing in the first place. Basically adjustments to confounders are no better than a one armed bandit in Las Vegas.
Maybe what you need to find are studies and hopefully RCT's that compare a vegan diet to a vegetarian diet, a pescatarian diet, the so called Mediterranean diet and a low carb with animal protein/fat diet and I say low carb because it will be one that is generally much higher in whole foods. These comparisons and similar comparisons that could possibly conflict with ones beliefs and biases help to maintain an open mind and keeps one on a course that is scientific in nature as opposed to just looking at studies that support a particular view because on a personal level every time I believed something to be an absolute I've generally been wrong and a few of these beliefs lasted for a few years, which when I look back I kick myself and tell my present self I'll try not to do that in the future, but it is difficult not to have a few biases, no doubt.
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I won't get into any of the debate above but here's a tip for OP. I'm diabetic and on a medically supervised Keto diet. So, NOT the Carnivore Diet but definitely low in carbs, which you are about to be. I apologize if this is something already covered by the program - I've never looked into the Carnivore Diet. Anyway, if you want to help ward off the initial headaches and exhaustion that tend to come along with cutting out carbs, you need to increase your sodium intake. I do this by drinking an electrolyte drink twice a day. Some people do it by drinking water with bouillon twice a day. And salt things to your taste. You may also want to consider a magnesium supplement. I just started taking one that is extended release. This helps with muscle cramping among other things.2
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https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/red-meat-and-colon-cancer#:~:text=A meta-analysis of 29 studies of meat consumption,20%. Red meat, prostate cancer, and other malignancies
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/eating-red-meat-daily-triples-heart-disease-related-chemical
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27597529/
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2019/study-red-and-white-meat-might-have-equal-effects-blood-cholesterol
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2020/new-study-shows-eating-red-meat-processed-meat-increases-heart-disease-risk
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1050173818300240#:~:text=Plant-based diets and cardiovascular health 1 Definition of,3 Potential biological mechanisms. ... 4 Conclusions.
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2021/08/04/eating-a-plant-based-diet-at-any-age-may-lower-cardiovascular-risk0 -
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/red-meat-and-colon-cancer#:~:text=A meta-analysis of 29 studies of meat consumption,20%. Red meat, prostate cancer, and other malignancies
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/eating-red-meat-daily-triples-heart-disease-related-chemical
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27597529/
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2019/study-red-and-white-meat-might-have-equal-effects-blood-cholesterol
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2020/new-study-shows-eating-red-meat-processed-meat-increases-heart-disease-risk
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1050173818300240#:~:text=Plant-based diets and cardiovascular health 1 Definition of,3 Potential biological mechanisms. ... 4 Conclusions.
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2021/08/04/eating-a-plant-based-diet-at-any-age-may-lower-cardiovascular-risk
All these are opinions based on data gathering through food frequency questionnaires, not sure you knew that are not, so just thought I'd mention it. I do have the feeling though that that won't matter.
Also when the term "risk" is assessed there's never a distinction between relative and absolute risk which is kind of important. For example, if a Statin manufacturer claimed that with statins you will reduce the risk of a heart related event by 35% but when you translate that into absolute risk it works out that if 1000 people took statins their whole life it would prevent 1 death in that cohort over that time period.
Can you explain why Hong Kong who eat a lot of meat, and I believe they consume more meat than any other country also have the longest lifespan.2 -
Not sure if you've already seen this YT video, but I love the Buff Dudes' "We Tried X Diet" videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4OmsKEWC10&t=278s 1 -
Maybe poor phrasing. I don't believe that a plant based diet is by default a whole foods diet or that an omnivore diet doesn't include any or a healthy amount of whole foods. The reason I keep mentioning whole foods is that this is what I associate with the benefits of the plant based diet; not necessarily vegetarianism/veganism per se as I know these can be very unhealthy/unbalanced too depending on the person and what they choose to consume. And this is also why I'm saying it is absolutely possible to live healthy on an omnivore diet too. The only thing I believe is, according to the studies and trends I've seen is that I think a balanced wholefood plant-based diet is healthier than a balanced wholefood omnivore diet. But the bigger picture? Both are probably very healthy; much healthier than other more restrictive diets and diets which include processed foods and so on.
And based on what you said, I don't think there is one study that proves it all either. As mentioned above, I don't see these as absolute truths. But I find these trends compelling. There are numerous, independent studies which look at the mortality of omnivores vs. vegetarians or vegans; which look at how an uptake in fibre influences disease outcome or occurrence, which compare the overall health of populations in which certain diets are prevalent. And they all seem to come to similar conclusions. A plant based diet might not be the ultimate cure or absolutely necessary to be healthy, but it seems to have influence enough for me to increase whichever small odds. I haven't seen as many studies which argue the opposite, rather studies which remain inconclusive.
That seems pretty reasonable to me, as a rationale for your personal choices.
I think there's a difference between finding evidence personally persuasive (even compelling), and using that evidence (which does have some reasoned critics) to try to persuade others that one's own path is the one right path.
Personally, I know why I'm vegetarian, and I'd say sticking with it for 48+ years (when I wasn't raised that way) is evidence of commitment. I'm capable of explaining what I think makes it good, useful, healthful for me, without necessarily evangelizing for it as "best" or perfect for all . . . though I'm not going to do either of those in a thread where the OP is asking for tips about the carnivore diet.
I don't personally believe that fully plant-based or vegetarian diets are inherently and always more healthful, or that they inevitably result in weight loss, and sometimes I'll say so. I don't think it's great to oversell, y'know? I feel like it's more likely to turn people off than persuade them, unless they're already partially on board or inclined.
I do suspect that including a fair fraction of so-called whole foods in one's eating, and eating relatively high levels of veggies/fruits (high compared to population averages) is likely to be health-promoting, in general.
(If I had solid evidence that short term carnivore was dangerous to health, I'd share it. But I have no such evidence. The studies that have been posted tend to be long-term longitudinal studies, self reports, correlative - not acute short term risks. Realistically, most people who adopt some diet that's unusual in their social context - let alone incompatible with their personal tastes/preferences - don't stick with that way of eating for very long. I've seen that personally: I've known a lot of people who tried vegetarianism. I know a few, like me, for whom it stuck long term . . . not many. That's why I'm focusing on acute risks in saying this. 🤷♀️)3 -
Some things I learned. My experience doing a carnivore diet was detrimental and very bad. Switching to plant based wholefood diet improved it all. My partner has congestive heart failure. Big meat eater, lifelong power lifter. Switched to plant based wholefood diet. Now off most meds, lost weight, even PSA score improved to put him in safe category.
I want to cardiologist today for follow up. It is recommended to be on plant based diet. Gastroenterologist, plant based or pescatarian. Rheumatologist. Same. I go for autoimmune disease.
I am not going to bother debating anymore, it's pointless. The op asked about starting it. I gave my view and knowledge, what I have experienced and what I have witnessed.
I wish all would be in good health, happy and do whatever. I care about myself, my loved ones and also enviornment. animal cruelty and longevity. To each is own, we are all unique.
I'm going to go do my happy Ornish style life. ✌️ ☮️ 🕊2 -
Back to the carnivore diet. I've been curious about the carnivore diet for the last few years and while I'm a staunch meat eater and higher protein/limited carbs, it forces you to either reexamine what you already know and investigate where you think there might be some shortcomings. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of literature or studies on the carnivore diet. Harvard just came out with one where they examined the data from just over 2000 participants who consumed a carnivore diet who've been on the diet for an average of 14 month.
https://academic.oup.com/cdn/article/5/12/nzab133/6415894?login=false
From my limited time looking into the carnivore diet I've come to the conclusion that part of the fascination for people are the thousands of anecdotal stories and the very dedicated and professional practitioners who talk about and prescribe this diet, but again no long term studies and just basically people going about their own n:1's.
From what I see are people with unresolved health issues that seem to have tried many different solutions including diet with little to no success only to find most of their health issues go away on carnivore, it's kind of mind blowing actually. Of course were not hearing a lot from people that have tried and failed, which could be a good thing and hard to say at this point.
I think if a person doesn't have the "issues" that are generally rectified on this diet and have a healthy metabolism, which I do, then I see no reason to give up on all plant material, or at least I wouldn't, they're tasty, adds variety and are full of nutrients that I suspect would overall be beneficial on a physiological level for most people. But according to data about 70% of the US diet is comprised of processed foods, which as we know are not the same as whole foods like fruit and vegetables.
The "issues" addressed the most are weight/obesity, lipid abnormalities, hypertension, cardiovascular, diabetes/insulin resistance, gastrointestinal, endocrinological, autoimmune, musculoskeletal and dermatological and with most caused by inflammatory issues.
Why would removing plant material seem to resolve these issues, is the question, and a question where there's a lot of nuance and can have a person go deep into the rabbit hole, no doubt. Of course at first glance and a knee jerk reaction dictates that fruit and vegetables are good for us and when we include more in the diet our health markers improve and increased mortality is automatically assumed on that premise and there's RCT to back this up. Although almost all studies show these improvements from comparing it to a diet that for the most part is high in ultra processed foods and in a demographic that is generally the most unhealthy, but regardless fruit and veg trumps most processed foods, period.
When I look at adverse reactions to different foods I'm hard pressed to find animal protein in the form of meat to have much effect on the overall populations an observation basically, while some people will have reactions to certain amino acids or other proteins and properties, shellfish, lactose and other properties in dairy, hydroxynonenal a derivative of oxidized omega 6, malondialdehyde, similar to hydroxynonenal, acrolein a carcinogen from high heat and glyoxal again from very high heat.
Plants obviously have varied defense mechanisms to prevent predation which has evolved for 1/2 a billion years or so and basically have formulated their own pesticides and insecticides to slow, stop or kill their adversaries and this is just nature trying to survive in it's environment. Some of these defense mechanisms are well know like oxalates, lectins, phenols, phytoestrogens, saponins, furocoumarins, cyanogenic glycosides, glucoronates and of course these are quantities that most people can tolerate without much effect but when you extrapolate out over a lifetime these add up and can be exacerbated when someone's immune system has been compromised, which is common among the average western person where as we know most peoples metabolic health isn't very good.
So while plant foods are generally good for us, and I can attest to that because I consume a lot of above ground plant food and some fruits, mostly berries and have no ill effects that I'm aware of but other people might not fair as well and find some of the above health issues concerning and turning to the carnivore diet is well worth a go as far as I can tell. cheers.
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