IPA, antidepressants, menopause, and macros, oh my!

shellymichalski01

I've used MFP intermittently for a long time, with good results when I was younger. Then the accident and four major surgeries later my life is radically different. I used to be an endurance athlete....now I have to come in for a rest just from cutting branches in the yard! In the last 10 years I've gained about 10-15 lbs that simply won't come off (I'm 53 and also on antidepressants). My body dysmorphia is in high gear and I'm dreading the shortening of the days in the fall. My very favorite foods are IPA beer and dark chocolate...and oh I try. I try people, to tell myself that I'll just have a sip, then I fall down that slippery slope. This spring I decided to take charge and intermittent fasted for 14 weeks with a 1500 calorie restriction and lost NOTHING. NOTHING! Then I dipped my toe into a macro diet and to be honest I only put about a month in before traveling for a month to professional meetings killed that. There are no nutritionists in my area who take my health insurance. After this long diatribe, what I'm asking is - how do the rest of you feel about macro diets? Success? I feel powerless and alone.

Kintsugi_blue

After lurking silently but diligently for a couple of months, I just wanted to poke my nose out to say you had me at IPA, antidepressants, early 50's menopause, body dys, autumn angst, dark chocolate, intermittent fasting & macro juggling. You are very much not alone. Cheers from afar.

sijomial

All diets are macro diets so would be helpful if you expanded on what your particular macro diet looked/looks like?
The range of healthy diets is massive and can have wildly different macro composition as long as certain essential nutrients are included.

My version of calorie counting while keeping an eye on my macros was simply to ensure I met or exceeded a fairly high protein goal (in grams), fat goal looked after itself naturally and carbs made up the majority of my diet within my calorie allowance. Yes it was successful but needed a small adjustment after a period of weeks to get my weekly calorie allowance right.

My suspicion is that within the noise of dabbling in different named diets and eating styles you simply didn't get your overall calorie intake right. Could be wrong goal, could be inaccurate logging. With a private diary there's not a lot of data to go by if you want help.

IPA - Oh, yes. I'll drink to that! :drinker:

RobynJ156

I can relate to just about everything in your post, except for maybe the IPA. I'm more of a Negroni, bourbon, and red wine kind of girl. My doctor suggested 35% Protein, 35% Carb, and 30% Fat at 1500 calories originally. When I started losing, we adjusted the calories a bit. When I hit a plateau, I added more protein, as just about all research I've done says that is what women our age need - higher protein and intermitted strength training to build muscle. There are several websites that can help you determine the right about of calories you need to lose weight, based on your level of activity, age, etc. Bottom line, it can be tough to lose weight for women in and post menopause...but not impossible. Have patience - you've got this!!

shaconrad1

You had me at endurance and surgeries, girl! I have always been an athlete, most of my adult life as an 50,75 and 100 mile endurance horse rider. Enter accident one in 2018 and two and three and now four (only one horse related). I've found myself after 9 major ortho surgeries up 50-60 lbs. I used to eat high protein, high fat, low carb, drop 20 in a month, but that doesn't work anymore. My exercise has gone down a ton but still highly active compared to most but now honestly just walking and light weights and farm work is what I can do. I still do ride my horse but the days of 35 mile training rides in 3-4 hours have been lost for while. I'm starting macros today. Never done it. Don't know if it will work, but I know what is not working for me now and have to try something else. You are not alone. BTW-I'm 47, no uterus, antidepressants, also a drinker.

driheataz

CAUTION: Long post follows! You also had me at endurance, post menopause, injuries, depression, and alcohol. Some time ago I was an LSD (Long Slower Distance) cyclist. Spent many hours in the saddle of a bicycle and an active member of the Ultra Marathon Cycling community. Enter accidents, injuries, loss of spouse, depression, and alcohol. Bad mix. Gained 45-50 lbs and lost myself in the mix. With the help of a therapist who has worked hard with me to help put things in perspective and overcome my grief and depression I can now turn to my weight and fitness. My fitness tracker (Apple watch) along with MFP and food scale are now among my best friends. My fitness watch and MFP are my constant reminders and encouragers (sometimes nags) to do the right thing (record my food intake, get moving, get on the scale often). Takes a bit longer to weigh everything before I put it in my mouth, but it has opened eyes to exactly how much of what I eat and how it affects my weight. Currently I am currently eating a somewhat modified Mediterranean diet, though higher in lean protein. I’ve eliminated bread, pasta, white rice and potatoes from my eating plan for now (all high glycemic, short lived carbs) and instead am focusing on high density, low glycemic fruits and veggies, lean protein, and record accurately everything that goes into my mouth. I love that I can scan the UPC code of many of the ingredients or foods that I eat in MFP and get an accurate account of it. I’ve met with some success, down about 18 lbs, sleeping well and feeling better about myself both physically and mentally. I’m also working hard to eliminate alcohol from my life, however that’s a whole other conversation. I’ve love to be ‘friends” with some like minded folks and encourage and help celebrate your successes. BTW, I’m no spring chicken here, I’m 71 and understand how difficult it is to lose weight and get fit at an older age. We can do it, I really believe that.

April_M_2015

I wish I had words of advice for the macro diet. These days I am struggling to count calories, struggling to exercise and struggling to care about it, while dreading taking a shower and seeing what I have become. I'm approaching 50, dreading the shorter days, drinking too much IPA and eating too many chips (I too love dark chocolate but chips are my kryptonite). Somehow everything seemed easier 3 years ago.

I so relate to your situation and sending big hugs your way.

AnnPT77

As others have said, it would help if you explained what you mean by "macro diet". There are lots of things called that, with (usually) the shared feature that they suggest counting macronutrients (in grams or percents) rather than calories . . . but it's done within a context where there's some calorie goal (if using macro percents) or gram goals for each macro (which roughly equate to a calorie goal, since each macronutrient has a characteristic calorie level per gram).

The thing is, counting macros in either of those ways is equivalent to counting calories while paying attention to nutrient intake goals. 🤷‍♀️ That latter is closer to what I do, but the difference is trivial in practice.

As background, I'm close to your demographic: I'm 5'5", 66 y/o, female. I've been menopausal since about age 44 (induced early by chemotherapy for breast cancer, and I took anti-estrogen drugs for 7.5 years after that, which loosely creates a sort of hyper-menopausal state in some respects). If it matters, I've also been severely hypothyroid since about that same time (but properly medicated for it). Post-cancer, I became a short-endurance athlete (after previously having not been routinely active). I joined MFP at age 59, lost 50+ pounds in less than a year, and have been maintaining a weight in the healthy BMI range and the same jeans size for 6+ years since. I'm still active in my sport (rowing, on-water when I can, machine when I must), but no longer competing; and I'm active in other ways as well (mostly cycling). There have been various periods when I couldn't work out due to surgery, injuries, etc., but I've mostly been active since my late 40s.

FWIW, I also like IPA quite well, and want some chocolate in my life when possible, too.

Recent research is suggesting that metabolism is pretty steady from our 20s through around age 60 **, so I don't think you should consider yourself doomed by age. What does tend to happen is that the average woman's daily life gradually becomes subtly less active as we age, and if we don't train to retain it, we lose muscle mass. Those things reduce our routine calorie expenditure. The good news is that both are reversible, if we take the reins.

** https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34385400/

I get that you have a long athletic history that I don't, but it sounds like you've had more discontinuity in your athleticism in recent years than I have, so loss of lean mass could still be a factor. (I detrain faster now than I did when I was younger, during those periods when I'm not working out. So, for me, injuries and surgeries have a higher "cost" in loss of fitness than they might once have. YMMV.)

For me, what has mostly worked is not putting any foods I like off limits totally, but committing to manage them for overall balance in calories, nutrition, enjoyment, practicality, etc. (Some people will want or need to exclude certain foods that they can't moderate. Anything I can moderate, I kept eating/drinking during weight loss and maintenance, including IPA and chocolate. I admit, my alcohol consumption went down more during the loss phase than in maintenance, because I do prioritize nutrition, and I had fewer calories to work with, while losing.)

I don't like the percentage method of setting macro goals, and think it can be especially misleading during calorie reduction. During loss, I kept protein in the range of 0.6-0.8g per day per pound of healthy goal weight; in maintenance it's a bit above 1g per pound of estimated lean body mass because I rounded to 100g (which I usually exceed, even as a vegetarian). This is an evidence-based source for protein estimates, from what's generally regarded as a neutral source:

https://examine.com/nutrition/protein-intake-calculator/
https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/

Unlike a lot of people, I also need to pay attention to a fat minimum, because I don't automatically get enough fats. I target 0.35-0.45g daily per pound of body weight, rounded to 50g for convenience.

Personally, I don't care where carbs fall - I just use those, and occasionally alcohol, to balance calories. Looking backwards, I got around 150 or so grams of carbs most of the time during weight loss, and 225+g most days in maintenance.

If a person finds that too-low carbs tank their energy, or too-high carbs spike their appetite, they may need to manage carbs explicitly. For sure, people who are insulin resistant or diabetic would want to do so.

I tweaked my eating gradually (when I first started logging) to get my macros where I wanted them (while eating foods I enjoy), and once that was in place, started working on dialing in eating patterns that gave me good nutrition in other respects (micronutrients, fiber, monounsaturated/polyunsaturated fats, some Omega-3s, food-sourced probiotics, and that sort of thing).

Not everything all at once, though: That would be overwhelming.

On the IPA and chocolate issue specifically: Some people do find it beneficial to either explicitly limit alcohol intake, or quit altogether. There are a threads here on MFP for support with that, such as:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10870495/less-alcohol-august-2022-one-day-at-a-time#latest
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10846412/sobriety-matters#latest

The latter one has been running for a long time, so if you open it for the first time you'll see very old posts. It's still active: The new posts are on the high-numbered pages, and you can skip there.

As an observation, I'd point out that there are finally starting to be some lower-alcohol, lower calorie IPAs that (IMO) have decent flavor. They're not the DIPAs/TIPAs/Imperials, but they may be helpful if you chose to moderate rather than eliminate. So far, of those, I prefer Shorts Lil Huma (95 calories/12oz), but there are others.

On the chocolate front, quite a few people around here say that they save some calories for daily chocolate, and many of those prefer individually-wrapped high-quality dark chocolate as easier to moderate, and more savorable. YMMV. One widely-available type I enjoy is Godiva truffle hearts, at 45 calories each.

You mention both "nutritionist" and "insurance", so I'm thinking you might be in the US. If so, what you'd want in most states is not a "nutritionist" (limited or no credentials required) but rather a "registered dietitian (RD)" (degreed professional).

That said, IMO most intelligent people who don't have any special health conditions can figure nutrition out reasonably well on their own. (BTW, the RDs generally use the same kind of calorie estimating formulas that the online calculators use, not something specially magic.)

To me, an important factor in confidently undertaking a DIY approach is realizing that if we're not already diagnosed as deficient in something(s), we can take our time and gradually work on improving different aspects of eating and nutrition - like calories first, satiation second, macros third, veggies/fruit for micros/fiber next . . . or some other order that makes more sense for an individual. Trying to do it all at once is potentially overwhelming. Working at it over time - using foods you personally enjoy - is much more manageable.

In a general sense, each of weight management, fitness, and nutrition are just about problem solving, persistently and patiently chipping away, gradually improving. Each of us has individual strengths, limitations, preferences, and challenges, so it's going to be a bit of a customization effort.

The good news, for most of us, is that by our 40s/50s or so, we know ourselves pretty well. We've also figured out how to work with our own strengths and inclinations, patiently and persistently over long time periods, to achieve other major life goals, such as getting an education, building a career, making a home, raising a family, and that sort of thing. Those same skills apply to weight management, fitness and nutrition.

In that sense you do have powers you might not have recognized. If you can find one thread to start pulling on in the (seemingly) overwhelming tangle of your health goals, and stick with it, I predict you'll amaze yourself with what you can accomplish over time. The effort needn't be continuously perfect, and an off day is more learning opportunity than "failure". The majority of our days determines the majority of our outcome. Better on average, over time, is enough. Two steps forward and one back is progress, if we stick with it.

I'm betting that if you find one set of habits you can begin changing - pick an easy thing to start, like eating more veggies or a daily walk, maybe - you'll feel a bit more empowered, and you can build on that. You can do this. You've done a lot in your life already, you have the skills you need.

And you're far from alone: There are lots of us on similar paths, maybe just different stages of the path. In particular, there are quite a few menopausal women here who've been quite successful, and they (among other people) will want to help you, if you can get engaged in the MFP Community, ask questions, read threads for ideas, contribute your own ideas, and so forth. It can work.

For sure, I'm cheering for you. You can do this.

JBanx256

Gonna hijack this for just a second - have you heard of Beer Drop? It's an AWESOME subscription service; you can tell them which style(s) you do/don't like, and they'll ship you custom assortments accordingly.

OKAY, now THAT'S out of the way - I'm honestly not sure what you're asking in regards to a "macro diet." I mean, any/all diets are comprised of macros?

CURRENTLY (in maintenance), I've got my daily calories set to 3467, with macro breakdown of roughly 20%P, 50%C, and 30%F. However, since I'm not training for anything in particular, as long as I hit my protein goal (TBH normally I go well over it, not intentionally, just because that's how I eat), I more or less let the carbs & fats fall where they may.

When I'm cutting, those all change though. I keep my protein constant, so the percentage of protein compared to my overall calories increases. I also have a "floor" for my fats, as to support hormonal function etc.

shellymichalski01

OMG it's taken me this long to figure out how to REPLY to comments on my thread. Thank you all for being so supportive! I was using 'If It Fits Your Macros' service to figure out what my daily macros should be given my exercise/age/sex. They suggested 1778 calories per day which I thought was way too high for a 53 year old woman. The macros they suggested were: Protein: 118 grams per day
Carbs: 142 grams per day (29 - 30 of which should be from fiber)
Fat: 82 grams per day
Water: 3 to 4 liters per day in addition to your regular fluid intake (on top of coffee, soda, tea, etc.)

I still have a really hard time hitting that protein, and am not enjoying the constipation that comes with it. I take metamucil and drink TONS of water per day but still get stopped up.

Have any of you tried the 'IIFYM' program? For fitness I do daily BeachbodyOnDemand workouts, take walks, ride my bike, work in the yard. I used to swim with the Masters swim team but I got burned out after 6 years and don't even want to look at a pool. My crappy joints prevent any high impact workout and it's SO FRUSTRATING. Honestly it would be so much less work if I could just accept the middle aged weight gain but I can't seem to win in that arena.

AnnPT77

shellymichalski01 wrote: »

OMG it's taken me this long to figure out how to REPLY to comments on my thread. Thank you all for being so supportive! I was using 'If It Fits Your Macros' service to figure out what my daily macros should be given my exercise/age/sex. They suggested 1778 calories per day which I thought was way too high for a 53 year old woman. The macros they suggested were: Protein: 118 grams per day
Carbs: 142 grams per day (29 - 30 of which should be from fiber)
Fat: 82 grams per day
Water: 3 to 4 liters per day in addition to your regular fluid intake (on top of coffee, soda, tea, etc.)

I still have a really hard time hitting that protein, and am not enjoying the constipation that comes with it. I take metamucil and drink TONS of water per day but still get stopped up.

Have any of you tried the 'IIFYM' program? For fitness I do daily BeachbodyOnDemand workouts, take walks, ride my bike, work in the yard. I used to swim with the Masters swim team but I got burned out after 6 years and don't even want to look at a pool. My crappy joints prevent any high impact workout and it's SO FRUSTRATING. Honestly it would be so much less work if I could just accept the middle aged weight gain but I can't seem to win in that arena.

I don't know if 1778 is too high. I maintain (at 5'5", 120s pounds, age 66, pretty active) on around 2200 calories, so 1778 would be close to a pound a week loss. I lost most of 50+ pounds on 1400-1600 plus all exercise calories (standard MFP method), so usually 1600-2000 calories most days. These days, I target minimum 100g protein, 50g fat, usually exceed those, don't care where carbs end up. I got a bit less than those amounts while losing, on lower calories . . . maybe 90s grams of protein most days?

Banx up there eats way more calories to maintain than I do at around the same height (but she's statistically unusual), and has a much higher protein target because of body composition and goals, so this stuff is not one size fits all.

Did you check out that Examine.com protein calculator I suggested, for a comparison value? If you're getting constipated from too much protein (which seems a little odd to me at 118g in the first place?), do you really need that much?

Why not try the 1778 for 4-6 weeks, see what happens? It's not implausible. Often, I feel like we women have it stuck in our minds that we need to eat 1200 calories or less to lose weight, but it's not necessarily true. Smaller, older, less active women are more likely to fall that low, but that's not all of us, y'know?

Setting too low a calorie goal makes practical weight loss harder: Can tank energy level (so reduce calorie expenditure), make us lose lean mass, make it harder to stick with our routine long enough to lose meaningful amounts of weight, and more. That would all be counterproductive.

As an aside, 3-4 liters of water in addition to other fluids sounds like kind of a lot, to me. Hydration needs are pretty individual, depending on activities, climate, and more. If you're drinking enough (all sources) that your urine is pale yellow (not dark), you're probably fine.

shellymichalski01

Thanks for your input.,,,I'm willing to give the 1178 calories with 118 g protein a try based on your experience!

globalhiker

Hi there...here is what helps me: why not try switching up everything. Sounds like your body is smart and adapted. Try something totally new - like bodycombat class or weightlifting or rollerskating, etc. Try increasing your calories and eating at different times but only when the stomach is growling. Engage in something new that nourishes your spirit and brings you joy. Do a 360.

I have the type of physiology that is highly adaptive. I can do a ton of exercise and over time, my body adjusts to it so I need less food. Even my average heart rate gets down to 50 which means when I sit, my metabolism is really, really slow. Body thinks it's being efficient. The only times I lost dramatic weight was with switching it up and doing high intensity and muscle building workouts and consuming quality protein within an hour after (like 5 egg whites with salsa).

sijomial

globalhiker wrote: »

Hi there...here is what helps me: why not try switching up everything. Sounds like your body is smart and adapted. Try something totally new - like bodycombat class or weightlifting or rollerskating, etc. Try increasing your calories and eating at different times but only when the stomach is growling. Engage in something new that nourishes your spirit and brings you joy. Do a 360.

I have the type of physiology that is highly adaptive. I can do a ton of exercise and over time, my body adjusts to it so I need less food.Even my average heart rate gets down to 50 which means when I sit, my metabolism is really, really slow. Body thinks it's being efficient. The only times I lost dramatic weight was with switching it up and doing high intensity and muscle building workouts and consuming quality protein within an hour after (like 5 egg whites with salsa).

No your body can't adjust like that to exercise - it's a common myth.

Your heart rate being low also isn't an indicator of your metabolism being slow - it's (usually) an indicator of high fitness levels. A better trained heart pumps more blood per beat which if you are using heart rate as a basis for calorie estimates means those estimates are going to be wrong.
e.g. My RHR used to be over 60 and now it's dropped 20% but that just means it's working better, I'm not burning less calories.

If you want to get reassurance your metabolism is normal you can get a resting metabolic rate test from breath analysis.

AnnPT77

globalhiker wrote: »

Hi there...here is what helps me: why not try switching up everything. Sounds like your body is smart and adapted. Try something totally new - like bodycombat class or weightlifting or rollerskating, etc. Try increasing your calories and eating at different times but only when the stomach is growling. Engage in something new that nourishes your spirit and brings you joy. Do a 360.

I have the type of physiology that is highly adaptive. I can do a ton of exercise and over time, my body adjusts to it so I need less food. Even my average heart rate gets down to 50 which means when I sit, my metabolism is really, really slow. Body thinks it's being efficient. The only times I lost dramatic weight was with switching it up and doing high intensity and muscle building workouts and consuming quality protein within an hour after (like 5 egg whites with salsa).

1. Sijomial is correct. Bodies don't adapt to exercise in that way: Doing X amount of work requires Y energy, because physics. We can get a little more efficient at some activities (waste less effort, so burn fewer calories), and as we get lighter we'll burn fewer calories doing exercises that involve moving our body through space because that's less work in physics terms. These are relatively small effects, in the big picture. Lowered heart rate is a fitness adaptation. The reduction in calorie burn from slightly fewer heartbeats is trivial, especially in a setting where the heart is doing more work per beat (moving higher blood volume).

2. Switching up a bunch of things randomly just to "shock the body" is no way to learn how one's individual body responds to circumstances and stimuli. It may work, in some sense - possibly just by taking up calendar time until a water weight drop that would've happened anyway - but it's not a great formula for long-term progress. No learning.

shellymichalski01

I'm limited because of my injuries but this is all good advice. The problem is that I used to be able to just exercise off extra weight, but that's not a reality anymore. I have to buckle down on my diet, and because I'm a drinker that's tough for me.