Let's Talk Pro-Chocolate: Real Kinds We Like, How We Eat/Use Them
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GigiAgape1981 wrote: »
What really surprises me is that last night was the second night that treat has been inside my house, and it's still in the original wrapper. I wonder if there's something wrong with me.5 -
I'm not much for sweets in general, but there are many benefits to a small bit of dark chocolate, so it is common for me have a couple squares as the last part of my dinner - generally I go for 70-85% cacao, so pretty minimal carbs in there. I do enjoy it, and it doesn't mess up my diet, keeps me from desiring other sweets (like ice cream) most of the time.
I've been getting mine at Lidl, their store brand, and love it, even more than some Lindt my bf picked up for me once. Trader Joe's store brand was fine too.1 -
springlering62 wrote: »As I see it, the problem with nuts in chocolate is that they leave less room for more chocolate. 🤔
So ya buy 2 bars. I don't see a problem. Plus there's that thing about not metabolizing all the calories in nuts, and they do taste pretty good, IMO.
I like almonds (especially salted ones) in chocolate, not sure how I'd like the salted cashews mtaratoot mentioned. I have mixed feelings about cashews in some other contexts, too.
Here's a minority report: I don't like hazelnuts in chocolate at. all. Nutella is just gross. Way too many of the "imported" "Belgian" chocolates have hazelnuts, too. Uck. (I like hazelnuts OK in some other contexts.)
Additional nostalgic digression: Years back, I once invented a cookie recipe that had a not-too-sweet but pretty plain slightly-risen cookie base (between crisp and cake-y) topped with sliced brazil nuts, and - when they came out of the oven and cooled a little - a heavy drizzle of chocolate ganache. Yum.
Brazil nuts are excellent with chocolate, but I could easily eat enough of them to selenium-overdose myself.2 -
Here's a minority report: I don't like hazelnuts in chocolate at. all. Nutella is just gross. Way too many of the "imported" "Belgian" chocolates have hazelnuts, too. Uck. (I like hazelnuts OK in some other contexts.)
Oh my! Don't conflate Nutella with chocolate and hazelnuts! Nutella is mostly sugar and palm oil. It's only 13% hazelnuts. It's a sugary spread.
We grow hazelnuts where I live. They are really tasty. We tend to grow the smaller varieties that are ideal for cordials and chocolates. Fresh hazelnuts are really delicious, especially roasted. If you simply have them after they are dipped/coated in dark chocolate, you might find they are nothing at all like Nutella. But best not to try that because you'll be hooked and it will be yet another temptation.
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Here's a minority report: I don't like hazelnuts in chocolate at. all. Nutella is just gross. Way too many of the "imported" "Belgian" chocolates have hazelnuts, too. Uck. (I like hazelnuts OK in some other contexts.)
Oh my! Don't conflate Nutella with chocolate and hazelnuts! Nutella is mostly sugar and palm oil. It's only 13% hazelnuts. It's a sugary spread.
We grow hazelnuts where I live. They are really tasty. We tend to grow the smaller varieties that are ideal for cordials and chocolates. Fresh hazelnuts are really delicious, especially roasted. If you simply have them after they are dipped/coated in dark chocolate, you might find they are nothing at all like Nutella. But best not to try that because you'll be hooked and it will be yet another temptation.
No. I've tried good hazelnuts. I like them in some contexts. I don't like them in chocolate. Not in good chocolate, not in bad chocolate: To my very individual personal palate chocolate and hazelnuts are not a good combination.
Chocolate with some other nuts? Yummy to me. Hazelnuts in some other foods? Yummy to me. The two together? A big NO. To me.
Nutella's just an easy target. One of those weird so-called hyperpalatable things that just don't taste good. To me. Many people bring it up when chocolate and hazelnuts are discussed, think it's yum (so I mentioned it, too).
Good (not too dried-out) candied ginger coated in good chocolate, though . . . I can go for that.2 -
They just gotta get the lead out.
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springlering62 wrote: »As I see it, the problem with nuts in chocolate is that they leave less room for more chocolate. 🤔
So ya buy 2 bars. I don't see a problem. Plus there's that thing about not metabolizing all the calories in nuts, and they do taste pretty good, IMO.
I like almonds (especially salted ones) in chocolate, not sure how I'd like the salted cashews mtaratoot mentioned. I have mixed feelings about cashews in some other contexts, too.
Here's a minority report: I don't like hazelnuts in chocolate at. all. Nutella is just gross. Way too many of the "imported" "Belgian" chocolates have hazelnuts, too. Uck. (I like hazelnuts OK in some other contexts.)
Additional nostalgic digression: Years back, I once invented a cookie recipe that had a not-too-sweet but pretty plain slightly-risen cookie base (between crisp and cake-y) topped with sliced brazil nuts, and - when they came out of the oven and cooled a little - a heavy drizzle of chocolate ganache. Yum.
Brazil nuts are excellent with chocolate, but I could easily eat enough of them to selenium-overdose myself.
...and apparently one only needs one Brazil nut to fill that need (nutrition wise...not psychologically speaking though😉).1 -
springlering62 wrote: »As I see it, the problem with nuts in chocolate is that they leave less room for more chocolate. 🤔
So ya buy 2 bars. I don't see a problem. Plus there's that thing about not metabolizing all the calories in nuts, and they do taste pretty good, IMO.
I like almonds (especially salted ones) in chocolate, not sure how I'd like the salted cashews mtaratoot mentioned. I have mixed feelings about cashews in some other contexts, too.
Here's a minority report: I don't like hazelnuts in chocolate at. all. Nutella is just gross. Way too many of the "imported" "Belgian" chocolates have hazelnuts, too. Uck. (I like hazelnuts OK in some other contexts.)
Additional nostalgic digression: Years back, I once invented a cookie recipe that had a not-too-sweet but pretty plain slightly-risen cookie base (between crisp and cake-y) topped with sliced brazil nuts, and - when they came out of the oven and cooled a little - a heavy drizzle of chocolate ganache. Yum.
Brazil nuts are excellent with chocolate, but I could easily eat enough of them to selenium-overdose myself.
...and apparently one only needs one Brazil nut to fill that need (nutrition wise...not psychologically speaking though😉).
I knoooooow. It's so sad, because I love them - my favorite nut. I've pointed that risk out on various threads where people recommend eating brazil nuts as a snack for healthy fats or whatever during weight loss. Super small handful of those babies a day, we're well over the documented tolerable upper limit.
Once in a while, with chocolate, though? Mmmm. (Even without chocolate, but that would be off topic.
.).
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That cashew chocolate bar? I thought it would be larger chunks of cashews. They were tiny tiny specs all throughout. Not a whole lot of salt either.
I had to shake my head because one serving is 1/3 of a bar. The bar has eight squares. Someone at Theo has bad math. Or more likely, the bar used to be four ounces, not three, and the serving size might have been a quarter of a bar. Same serving size - one ounce. It just would be actually possible to make one or two servings. As the bar is built, if you really want to be ~accurate~ with your servings, because no way could even an expert like me break up the remaining two squares into three equal parts, is to eat all three servings.
I will try some other bar next time. Might be a while. The cacao nibs were a nice addition to my yogurt and oats this morning.3 -
Hiawassee88 wrote: »
They just gotta get the lead out.
Oh wow. I forgot chocolate covered cherries! I loved them so much, I got a box every Christmas from childhood until MFP days. The $.99 box was perfect for the kids’ Christmas budget. I’d eat any of them, no matter how cheap or revolting.
Treated myself to a box of Mon Cheri while visiting Christmas markets last month ( did I mention I was totally off the chain there?!). The first time in my life I’ve ever left chocolates in a hotel room. Just couldn’t abide the too-strong liqueur taste.
Anyway, this reminds me. I haven’t made my super awesome low-cal chocolate cherry ice cream in a while. (We had chocolate coconut last week and this week is chocolate peanut butter.). I think I’ll bike down to Kroger and get a can of sugar free Comstock cherry pie filling for next week’s ice cream.
I can’t wait to hear more about the “not”-chocolate chocolate that scientists in Europe are about ready to turn loose on us. No cocoa involved. Haven’t heard a peep about nutritional value, though.1 -
At least in the US, we can now claim that some chocolate is now health food -
https://fda.gov/food/cfsan-constituent-updates/fda-announces-qualified-health-claim-cocoa-flavanols-high-flavanol-cocoa-powder-and-reduced-risk1 -
springlering62 wrote: »Hiawassee88 wrote: »
They just gotta get the lead out.
Oh wow. I forgot chocolate covered cherries! I loved them so much, I got a box every Christmas from childhood until MFP days. The $.99 box was perfect for the kids’ Christmas budget. I’d eat any of them, no matter how cheap or revolting.
Treated myself to a box of Mon Cheri while visiting Christmas markets last month ( did I mention I was totally off the chain there?!). The first time in my life I’ve ever left chocolates in a hotel room. Just couldn’t abide the too-strong liqueur taste.
Anyway, this reminds me. I haven’t made my super awesome low-cal chocolate cherry ice cream in a while. (We had chocolate coconut last week and this week is chocolate peanut butter.). I think I’ll bike down to Kroger and get a can of sugar free Comstock cherry pie filling for next week’s ice cream.
I can’t wait to hear more about the “not”-chocolate chocolate that scientists in Europe are about ready to turn loose on us. No cocoa involved. Haven’t heard a peep about nutritional value, though.
My favorite is high in lead.
https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-cadmium-in-dark-chocolate-a8480295550/0 -
The local purveyor I posted about earlier in the thread (Oh MI Chocolates) makes the best chocolate cherries I've ever had.
They're in a little cup configuration similar to but a bit smaller than their other chocolates (and at a lower price per piece).
It's still the "must be refrigerated" coconut-oil-based rich chocolate, but the cherries are much more real than the commercial chocolate covered cherries. The cherries are juicy, preserved in (I think) some kind of very light sweet syrup? Not liqueur AFAIK, at least not assertively so, not super sweet, tastes like a cherry, but more candy-amorous. Not much if any extra syrup-stuff in the candy, just the juicy cherry.
So good.
I dissassembled one for your viewing pleasure, table fork for scale. (Bonus rainbow spots from my kitchen window prisms.)
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I've been drinking more decaf since that first day recently that I made a cup. Like every afternoon! Today, being a weekend, I'm having a second. I take my coffee plain. That's why I have to have good coffee and brew it right. I won't go into my particular method to make the BEST cup, but I will talk about chocolate.
I keep some Dutch process cocoa in the pantry. I do use it from time to time. Since I've been reading this little discussion, I've been thinking of where to add some next - maybe even to savory foods. I haven't done that yet. Probably won't add to my yogurt until all the cacao nibs are gone, but now we're back to coffee.
I decided to try a little chocolate in my coffee.
After I pre-heated my mug (a must-do this time of year because I don't keep the heat very high in the house), I added a heaping spoon of cocoa powder. I estimate an actual tablespoon, and I'm pretty good at estimating that amount. If I was off by 10%, that's a whopping whole one calorie. I poured water over the coffee grounds, and gave it a stir.
Obviously without any sweetener it was a little bitter. I'm not scared of bitter. Some say I AM bitter.... Anyway, it turned out to be a nice addition. Not only will I not pour it down the sink drain, I'll pour it slowly through my mouth and into my happy belly. This may become a weekend tradition in Casa de Mtaratoot.
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I used to put that Ghirardelli Ground Chocolate and Cocoa powder (dark or sweet) in coffee sometimes, and that was quite nice. I don't think I have any in the pantry anymore - it sounds good. (I do prefer milk in my coffee - foamed, ideally - even with good coffee. There's a good roastery quite close to me, to my good fortune.)
The powder I'm talking about is this stuff:
That's probably less bitter than your cocoa, @mtaratoot, perhaps even in the dark (vs. sweet) formulation. Not sure.
I'm good with bitter things, too. Having had a beverage last evening that was 114 IBU, and being an unnaturally curious person, I wondered whether an IBU-equivalent could be estimated for cocoa/cacao/chocolate, and found subjective estimates in the 11-25 IBU range from brewers discussing it as an add-in, but didn't find much out there. My palate isn't good enough to judge the reasonableness of that. Do you have an opinion?
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@mtaratoot - I too like decaf coffee and have done this too. I like it black but need (ha) some sweet with that cup...Stevia for me or monkfruit0
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@AnnPT77
I think it would be pretty hard to say about actual bitterness units in cocoa powder, especially in coffee which already has a slight bitterness. The thing about IPA that isn't a thing in black coffee is there actually is still a whole lot of sweet in there. This is especially true for the high gravity ones; lots of residual non-fermentable sugar. That's one reason you NEED the bitterness - it would otherwise be cloyingly sweet. Black coffee with some cocoa powder ain't got no sweetness in it. Kind of like me in the morning BEFORE my caffeinated coffee..... I bet if I added some honey or brown sugar to my chocolate decaf, or even some milk or cream, it would cut right through the bitterness. Already the Dutch process takes away some of the bitterness.
And then there's the fact that there is caffeine in cocoa, so I really should just have it with my morning coffee unless I just want to be a troublemaker all night. Hey - it's Saturday. Maybe I'll go make some trouble!
I have actually recently considered buying some kind of creamer to add to coffee for special occasions, but I really do like it black if I make a good cup. I stopped using half-and-half quite a while ago and moved to a coconut based creamer that Trader Joe's sells. It's actually pretty good. My hygienist tells me that if I drink "polluted" coffee, it takes longer to clean the scuz off my teeth when I go for a visit. That's not the only reason I stopped adding stuff to my coffee. I like to save the calories for other things. But it still is nice to have a more pleasant time sitting in that "comfy chair."
Editing to add: There was a slurry of cocoa on the bottom of the cup. I had to get a spoon to scoop it up and enjoy it "to the last... drop?"
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IMU (which may be wrong) cacao powder (which is all I have in the pantry now, I believe) is more bitter than Dutch-processed cocoa (I think that's what you had, @mtaratoot), and perhaps plain cocoa powder (non-Dutched) is in between. Cacao powder and cocoa powder are I think somewhat acidic, but Dutch-processed more neutral so behave differently in recipes. Allegedly. I think the Dutch-processed also incorporates more readily in liquid?
It's the cacao powder I've been using lately in things like Chili or black-bean soup/stews, and it seems to mix in well with some cooking. I've used plain cocoa powder (not Dutched) the same way in the past. I think the bitterness/acidity of those may be part of what appeals to me in a savory context? I can't recall whether I've ever used Dutch-processed that way (I don't usually have any).
I've used hot skim milk in my coffee for ages (no sweetener), and really like it, though I know the idea horrifies some people. Foaming it (manual plunger-type foamer) gives it a more luxurious texture. Since @springlering62 turned me on to that, I've been an enthusiast. I think it would be good with any one of the chocolate options. The Ghirardelli powders I mentioned are sweetened - including the dark one.
Reading a little about IBU, about which I know nothing except I tend to like the high IBU things, it seems one can only measure that in a thing like beer, so considering the comparative bitterness of chocolate or coffee would I guess be subjective only, where any sweetness or even acidity/alkalinity might complicate the perception.0 -
I had a fine & raw “truffle chunky” bar for dessert. (I am still trying to gain back some weight). It was dark, a bit bitter and delicious. Handmade in brooklyn according to the packaging … 40 g. 210 cal. But v. Expensive ($6.95 at my tiny gourmet farm grocery). It is a truffle bar - not filled — just really dense bitter cocoa sweetened with agave. Softer in texture than a chocolate bar. It took forever to eat. So very satisfying for the calories and I suppose the price too. (It is one serving and I ate it as one serving but it took about an hour for something just slightly larger than a halloween mini candy bar).1
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I got this at Deathwish Coffee Company's website. Unfortunately, it was a one time thing. It's infused with their Valhalla Java coffee and is delicious. I'm hoping they'll bring it back in future.
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Late to the party, but regarding nuts in chocolate....
Since I started counting calories, I designated nuts as "not worth the calories". I don't dislike nuts, but certainly don't like them enough to use up the high density calories they cost me.
So, I tend to avoid nuts in my chocolate, as it bumps up the calorie count without giving me any added pleasure.
I tend to not like a lot of "stuff" in my chocolate anyways, as I really like the taste of chocolate itself and feel like it gets crowded out.
I do love a little sea salt in it, and I think I'd really like the coffee bark pictured above, though.0 -
I tried adding cocoa nibs to my whole bean coffee before grinding. Using an old-timey stove-top percolator, I was hoping for a deep mocha kick but honestly, it didn't seem to add much flavor. Maybe it was the brand - Anthony's via Amazon. The nibs seemed to be monumentally flavour deficient.
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I tried adding cocoa nibs to my whole bean coffee before grinding. Using an old-timey stove-top percolator, I was hoping for a deep mocha kick but honestly, it didn't seem to add much flavor. Maybe it was the brand - Anthony's via Amazon. The nibs seemed to be monumentally flavour deficient.
I am not sure cacao nibs are soluble in water. I think if you want their flavor, you have to get cacao powder (different from cocoa powder as @AnnPT77 explained earlier). You'll need to whisk it in and probably keep stirring to keep it in suspension. If I had kept stirring my coffee yesterday with cocoa powder (Dutch process, not cacao powder), the flavor would have stayed more consistent, but then I wouldn't have had that chocolate layer on the bottom to enjoy at the end of the cup.0 -
I tried adding cocoa nibs to my whole bean coffee before grinding. Using an old-timey stove-top percolator, I was hoping for a deep mocha kick but honestly, it didn't seem to add much flavor. Maybe it was the brand - Anthony's via Amazon. The nibs seemed to be monumentally flavour deficient.
I've found different brands/sources of nibs quite different in depth and nature of flavor. I don't have any specific brand recommendations, though.
If the nibs are extremely flavor-deficient when you just eat them, then there are better nibs out there, I think.
I'm also not disputing what mtaratoot said about how soluble ground nibs would be. (I have no idea. I just eat the nibs, alone or in things.)0 -
They are naught to write home about when eaten plain, so perhaps they are of dubious age and quality.
P.S. cacao - darn you auto-correct! 0 -
@AnnPT77 I am hunting for your bitters. I've read how they improve the taste of more than drinks, but they're good with chocolate, too.1
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Today's third coffee has a little bit of caffeinated beans left from the first two cups plus enough decaf to make a nice cup.
I decided to make Candy Coffee. A large spoon of Dutch process cocoa powder, a very small spoon of dark brown sugar, and a half teaspoon of high quality vanilla extract. Quite a sweet treat for a mid-day Sunday lazy time dealing with tax forms and the like. I will keep stirring it to keep the cocoa in suspension, and I bet it will be empty before it gets cold.
Enjoying with some dark rye apricot-laden sourdough rye that my friend left for me yesterday. Can you say extravagant? I just did.1 -
Hiawassee88 wrote: »@AnnPT77 I am hunting for your bitters. I've read how they improve the taste of more than drinks, but they're good with chocolate, too.
Some would be, I think. They're basically like a strange kind of flavoring extract.
Chocolate bitters are even a thing that exists, though the brand I have (part of a sampler set) doesn't seem to me to be very flavorful.
Did you see the link that @Sinisterbarbie1 mentioned as a bitters source (direct link to that section)? https://thecocktailery.com/collections/bitters-1
You can also get them on Amazon, if that's not a morally reprehensible source in your world. If there are local cocktail ingredient shops where you are, that's another option.1 -
@AnnPT77 I'm all about primable. I've hiked UP and down the Amazon Trail, many, many times. I like that I can send my Amistakes back without a charge. I'm made a million of those. Thanks for the links.1
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